Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

[taseal]

What's the purpose of the larger silver expanded ball instead of the smaller balck one that holds the decapping pin? I assume it just expands the neck a bit before entering the bushing, but shouldn't the neck already be slightly expanded? So what's the purpose of it then? I replaced it with the black one actually. Less contact that IMO isn't needed

And lubing... I do t have TiN bushings. Just steel (should be here today or tomorrow) do I need Amy lube on the neck or anywhere else? Inside outside neck?

And lastly, for operation of of neck sizer. How does it work,

I assume the bushing wraps arou d the outside of the neck narrowing it? It confuses me a bit because unless the bushing has a funnel like entrance, if the OD of the neck is too large (say .338 after firing and the bushing is .335) how will the neck fit in there without getting crunched?

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

Question #1
The black piece on the stem does nothing other than hold the decapping stem in place.
The expander ensures that the inside of the neck is concentric.
Lots of folks run without it and use just the bushing.
That works, but unfortunately only pushes any imperfections on the outside of the neck to the inside.

Question #2
No lube should be necessary on the outside of the neck when using the Ti bushings, but the Redding Dry powder lube is a good idea for the inside if you are using the expander that ships with the die.
The best route to go is to upgrade to the Redding carbide expander ball for two reasons.
One, it eliminates the need to the neck lube.
Two, the carbide ball "floats" in the same manner as the neck bushing.
The allows the expander and bushing to naturally center themselves therefore minimizing run out.
(FWIW, I would NOT recommend using the expander that ships with the dies, but would recommend using the carbide expander due to the reasons listed above.)

Question #3
The reason the neck is not initialy crushed is because there is a slight taper at the start of the bushing.
Because the force of the bushing is uniform, the necks are then sized down and not crushed.

 

[taseal]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

Ok thanks.

But like I said, I'm not using TiN bushings. Regular steel... So will I have to have light lube on the neck? I guess nothing on the inside since I won't be using the expander for now

Also after I posted this, I read that the expander actually makes the concentricity worse? I gave lapua brass, so it might be all that bad.

For the bushing to float, once you drop it in the die, and rift en the adjuster on top, it says to untwist it 1/16 of a tuen. That's a very small turn, so to gauge it, if I vertically shake the die I should hear the bushing rattle there very slightly right?

And for the carbide expander that's self centering. Can't I just get a small o ring and use the supplied one to help it self center?

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So will I have to have light lube on the neck?

Also after I posted this, I read that the expander actually makes the concentricity worse? I gave lapua brass, so it might be all that bad.

If I vertically shake the die I should hear the bushing rattle there very slightly right?

And for the carbide expander that's self centering. Can't I just get a small o ring and use the supplied one to help it self center?</div></div>
- Yes, you will need lube if you don't use the Ti bushing.
- Yes, the stock button can make runout worse for the reasons that I previously mentioned.
The carbide button does not suffer from this though.
I have gotten less runout and more concentric necks by using the Ti bushing and Carbide ball.
- Yes, the rattle is an effective way to adjust the bushing.
(Also, install the bushing with the writing pointing up.)
- No, the carbide ball is setup to float and the standard button will bind and be held in place.

FWIW,
The bushing and ball is alot less expensive and alot less time consuming than neck trimming.
Through trial and error, this is one of those areas that has resulted in greater net gains than such things as measuring powder down to the .01 grain or neck trimming.

 

[taseal]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

Thx Phil.

Do you always use the carbide ball, or only when you need to remove bulges from the neck? Or after few firings

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

I leave the ball in place.
Just clean things out every few hundred rounds.

I know that the price of the ball is silly, but I feel that it made a significant improvement in my loads.

 

[taseal]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

Yeah I just looked. 26 bucks is steep for that thing. There are carbide die sets that almost cost that much for pistols lol...

I put it on my wish list for now. I'm gonna use the small black one for now.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

I used the Ti bushing and no expander ball when I first started.
You will have good results.

Get the ball when you can and have fun with it.

 

[groovinpickle]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

Here is some good reading on how to best make use of the bushings. Do whatever works for you, but the manufacturer's recommendations are where I like to start.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah I just looked. 26 bucks is steep for that thing. There are carbide die sets that almost cost that much for pistols lol...

I put it on my wish list for now. I'm gonna use the small black one for now. </div></div>

Just to expound on what Dr.Phil said, if you're shooting brass fired out of a gas gun, where the case mouths are getting dinged in upon ejection, or you have butter fingers and keep dropping your bolt gun fired brass onto the concrete ground, you'll want to get the carbide sizing buttons, as they eliminates the need to lube and delube the inside of the case necks.

I have buttons for .22, .308 and .338, but unless I'm processing range pickups, or brass fired out of my ARs, or other gas guns, I'm not using it.

I handle my bolt fired brass gingerly and therefore I don't need to run the carbide button, or any expander ball, upon sizing.

If you want to eliminate some case stretching and deformation, you'll want to lube the inside of the necks when using an expander ball, which isn't a hard thing to do, but then you have to make sure you get it out of the case mouths, otherwise powder will stick there and get contaminated.

Depending on the lube (and method of lubing) you use, this might take more time and be more of a headache.

I like having the buttons handy for the times I get to bring home other peoples' brass, which as of late, has been from mostly AR-15 shooters.

Chris

 

[taseal]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

Good info. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

This is virgin lapua brass, so for this session I won't need it, but when I reuse them I might do it depending o their condition. For now, I'll just lightly lube the OD of the necks for the bushing. That's easy to wipe off

 

[taseal]

Re: Redding bushing neck sizer expanded ball and lube

Hmm, an interesting tip from redding to improve coentrycity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Other factors that can improve concentricity:

Lube case necks, even with TiN coated bushings.
Partial size case necks. Sizing 1/2 or 3/4 of the neck seems to be the most popular.
Try flipping the bushing over. We like to install them with the letters down to start with.
</div></div>