Reloading 75 and 77gr for 1/7 twist 16" DD

[svxwilson]

I just got a new rifle. It is a Daniels defense V7. I love it and I got it with the idea of loading heavy rounds for it. I have 77gr nosler custom competition hpbt and 75 gr hornady hpbt bullets. I have TAC, varget, and ar comp, I also have vv n-140 on its way but it will be a few weeks. I have a couple hundred cases that are lc 10-12. I have them sorted by years. I also just got some lapua brass for it because I have inconsistencies with the lc brass and I have not found a good method to prep the lc brass with their crimped primer pockets (what a pain in the ass). I do not have a chronograph yet or a good case trimmer I am looking for suggestions for those items.

I am looking for suggestions for this 16" barrel with a 1/7 twist. Any good loads anybody has found with this application or experiance with simpilar ones. I am using CCI bench rest primers with the lapua brass. I have the above listed powders to use. I am new to reloading for my rifles. I have been Loading for 9mm, 10mm, .357 mag, and .44 mag for 3-4 yrs now just trying something new. I am looking for mid range accuracy with this gun 200-600 yards. I have a 308 and 6.5 Grendel for longer than 600. I have not begun to load for the other two yet I want to get the 5.56 down first.

 

[gixxerk8]

I'm running a Noveske with a 26" PacNor barell with 1:6.5 twist The thing is a tack driver out to 900 using 21.5g Varget under a Hornady 75 bthp match 2.260 oal. Running 2499 through chrono

 

[EL34]

Not exactly what your looking for, but here is some info that you might find helpful. R-P case, CCI BR-4 primer, 23.7gr. Varget, 77gr. SIE HPBT, 2.260 OAL, out of a 20" FNMI bbl. 1X7, with an AV of 2,549fps. Substitute BL-C2 at 24.9grs, and I get an AV of 2,696fps.
A Chrony Master Alpha will do what you want as far as getting velocites, for a few dollars more you can get more functionality from a Master Beta.

 

[BCP]

24.3 Varget or 24 TAC I try to keep COAL around 2.245" so they feed well from all my mags. The varget load has been more accurate for me. I used LC brass and CCI primers.

From my 16" the 24.3 varget was 2630fps and the tac load varied from 2650 to 2720 depending on temperature.

edit: the above is for the 75horn BTHP I didn't have much luck with 77 nosler or SMK.

 

[svxwilson]

24.3 Varget or 24 TAC I try to keep COAL around 2.245" so they feed well from all my mags. The varget load has been more accurate for me. I used LC brass and CCI primers.

From my 16" the 24.3 varget was 2630fps and the tac load varied from 2650 to 2720 depending on temperature.

What bullets are you using? What kind of results did you get with the loads you described. I thought the case depth needed to be right on 2.260 to get the best accuracy?
Thanks for your input.

 

[BCP]

I didn't get good accuracy out of them until I seated them to that length just to be clear

75BTHP Hornady
LC 07-09 brass
CCI reg small rifle primer
24.3 Varget or 24 TAC
2.245"

Used same load for 77 nosler didn't group quite as well but was still 'good enough'.

BTW if you examine some hornady TAP 75gr you'll find it's thick brass, 23.5 varget-looking stuff and no longer than 2.25" whereas the black hills 77 was 24.1 (TAC) ball powder and 2.24-2.245"

 

[Fwdftw]

Man you gotta get a chronograph! as said previously you can pick up a Beta Chrony off walmart.com I have one and love it.

 

[LRRPF52]

I don't load any Lake City unless I shot it myself first as a new factory load. The last 2 kabooms I have seen both were using fired military Lake City brass, which I suspect was run through a SAW. That will stretch the crap out of the case at the critical web area just above the extractor groove, and even mild loads can experience a case head separation.

When loading for the AR15 or any gas gun, you really need to pay attention to making sure primers are fully seated, and that your shoulders are set back enough. Those are the main differences from loading for pistol, although primers need to be seated fully in any cartridge of course. You also full-length re-size when loading a gas gun.

What you might consider is checking what your carbine's usable COL is, which usually is determined by the magazine more than the chamber and projectiles, with a few exceptions. The Nosler CC's have more of a tangential ogive, which can mean shorter seating depths in some people's chambers. Shorter seating depth means less case volume, which increases the pressures if you use max data for another bullet like the 77gr SMK or 75gr HPBT run at longer COL, so definitely use starting loads and work up with a pressure ladder test first.

Ramshot lists 23.2gr as a start load for TAC and the 75gr Hornady HPBT for use in Milspec/NATO actions with a max of 25.8gr at 62,145psi! I would not go near that max load, as TAC is pretty temp-sensitive. Once you start hitting 24.0gr in the .223 with 75-77gr, you probably want to stop in the AR15.

http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ramshot_handgun_rifle.pdf

Looking forward to your results. Try ladder tests to find your accuracy nodes at 200yds or more. Here's a great article on ladder-testing at 1000yds, but the concept is the same. The best thing that ladder-testing did for me was reduce the number of load-development shots I have to take, while finding my accuracy nodes much quicker. It also helps you if you decide to play with seating depth and its relationship to accuracy and barrel time.

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

 

[ArmyJerry]

Tagged. Thanks for the info gents. I just put a 20" barrel on my RRA, want to get some load data for this barrel, its a FA 1-8 twist, match, I have many many pounds of Varget and Benchmark, anyone have a good load for this barrel and powder.please include brass as I have have hundreds or thousands of every brass brand on hand.

Any good loads for the Savage 10 FP in 223 26" barrel?

 

[sititunga]

24 grains of TAC behind 73 grain Berger bullets from a JP 14.5 tube, I'm getting an MV of just over 2500 fps with very good accuracy.

 

[fockell]

I have made the switch from varget to IMR 8208 soley based on availability. Here is my two pet loads with both powders.
Brass- WCC or LC or WIN
Primer- REM 7-1/2 or CCI Nato
Bullet- 77g SMK @ 2.260"
Powder- 23.6g of 8208 or 25.0g of Varget.
Both loads perform at about 2650-2700 out of a 18" Kreiger 1-7" twist.

As always, works well in my rifles, back of by 10% for staring in yours!
Enjoy,
Brandon

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Svxwilson,

Here are my pet loads:

77gr SMK
23.5gr Ar-comp or 24.7gr varget
LC brass
2.26OAL
winchester Small rifle primers.

Rifle is a Rock River National Match A2 w 20" wylde chamber barrel.

The ar-comp load shot an incredible 0.5" at 200yards (5-shot group)...wish i took a picture of it.

 

[svxwilson]

The ar-comp load shot an incredible 0.5" at 200yards (5-shot group)...wish i took a picture of it.[/QUOTE]

Would you say that you preferred the ar-comp with the accuracy you achieved?

 

[svxwilson]

I appreciate everyone's input. This will be helpful.
If weather cooperates I will go out Sunday with some test loads.
How have you guys tackled the primer crimp in the NATO brass such as the LC. I have a hard time getting the primers to seat right and without a battle with the freshly prepped lc brass. The second time I load them it gets easier but still not smooth every time. Any suggestions or is that just the way it is?
I have lapua brass for the precision rounds but planned on using the lc for my plinking rounds.

 

[LRRPF52]

You need a primer pocket reaming tool for Small Rifle Primers:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/501588/hornady-primer-pocket-reamer-tool-small

 

[Danco411]

Loaded thousands of 75g Hornady's with TAC. I love that powder.

LC cases fully prepped
24g of TAC
75g Hornady HPBT
CCI400, CCI#41 or Wolf SRM primers
2.250 COAL

2640'ish through my Magnetospeed Chrono

I can bang steel out to 1K with my 20" Lilja barreled DMR build.
2600

 

[BoilerUP]

I have made the switch from varget to IMR 8208 soley based on availability. Here is my two pet loads with both powders.
Brass- WCC or LC or WIN
Primer- REM 7-1/2 or CCI Nato
Bullet- 77g SMK @ 2.260"
Powder- 23.6g of 8208 or 25.0g of Varget.
Both loads perform at about 2650-2700 out of a 18" Kreiger 1-7" twist.

This jives with my data with 8208XBR...

77gr Nosler CC
23.5gr 8208XBR
RP case
Rem 6.5
2658fps from 18" 1:8 Black Hole Weaponry barrel

23.8gr XBR gives me 2683fps while 24.5gr Varget was 2613fps.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Svxwilson,

Yes, i love ar-comp so much so that i have 17lbs of it on hand.

I have 16lbs of varget on backorder...when it arrives, i will be looking to trade for more AR-comp...

Hope that helps.

 

[svxwilson]

Finally got to the range today. Didn't get a a chance to shoot the varget or ar comp loads that I have loaded. I had limited time so I shot some factory loads and some established TAC 23.8 gr 77gr nosler bthp.
Got 2890-2955fps with the factory PMC 5.56 55gr FMJ. I had very consistent results from the at loads I have been using.
My results from my TAC loads were 2595-2605fps.
Was a good day using the chronograph fir the first time. I am very happy about the chronograph. It was a essential reloading tool.

 

[LRRPF52]

Good deal. The chronograph is really your #1 pressure spike indicator when running pressure/accuracy ladders. You will see a predictable velocity increase per charge weight, then all of a sudden, you'll see a crazy spike with even a .2gr increase in small cases like the .223 Rem, 6mm PPC, 6.5 Grendel, once you get around max loads.

As I look at Ramshot's data on TAC, they list starting loads with the 77gr SMK at:

TAC 77 SIE HPBT 22.3 2,648 24.8 2,902 61,500 2.260

That's for a bolt gun or semi-auto that is rated to take NATO pressures, like a true HPT/MPI Bolt/Barrel Extension/Barrel combo, which your DD qualifies for (one of the few).

I personally would load 2 or 3 batches of ladders (if you want to find accuracy nodes) like this:

23.3
23.5
23.7
23.9
24.1
24.3
24.5
24.7

Shoot those at 300yds, with the bullet tips colored differently, on clean white quality cardboard. Use the alcohol tipped swap to pull the colors out when you go down to the target. Check and record your chrono readings with each load, then analyze the primer and brass for excessive pressure signs. Sounds like you have a low extreme spread of 10fps with the 23.8gr load, but tell us how many rounds that was.

 

[svxwilson]

I shot 10 rounds of each through the chrony. Shot the rest at the gongs at 300. I love banging steel!

 

[LRRPF52]

How does the TAC 23.8 gr 77gr Nosler CC load group for you at 300yds? 10fps ES is very nice, especially for a gas gun.

 

[arbogb06]

Anyone try the 70 gr berger vld's? I am having pretty good luck with those bullets but have yet to try the 75 gr Hornadys or 77 grain SMKs. I have a WOA 26" bull barrel in 1:8"

 

[jjrgr21]

24.2 gr varget/20" douglas/75gr bthp= 2680fps, .5moa all day 8fps SD

23.5 gr TAC/20" doug/75gr=2850fps

18" BHW SPR/same loads/2600-V, and 2700-TAC, shoots .75moa pretty easy.

 

[bear458]

I like the Berger 70 over AR comp

 

[tracvision]

Nice information LRRPF52. Great article on ladder testing.

snip
Looking forward to your results. Try ladder tests to find your accuracy nodes at 200yds or more. Here's a great article on ladder-testing at 1000yds, but the concept is the same. The best thing that ladder-testing did for me was reduce the number of load-development shots I have to take, while finding my accuracy nodes much quicker. It also helps you if you decide to play with seating depth and its relationship to accuracy and barrel time.

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

 

[bigjohn451]

My favorite load for 75 BTHP is 23.6 of H4895 getting 2700 fps from my 18" WOA SPR barrel

 

[arbogb06]

I guess I will have to try the 75 gr hpbt out of my WOA.

 

[arbogb06]

Anyone know of any stores that actually have hornady 75 gr hpbt in stock? Or even have a some they would be willing to get rid of?

 

[svxwilson]

Ok so I had a typo. That was 24.8 gr of tac in that formula not 23.8 that I originally posted. When I was reading through the forum I saw I had that typo. So the 24.8 gr of TAC is what produced those results of 2600 fps. According to the manuals I have that load was very close to peak. before the chronograph that is what I had the best results with. I have only put those rounds on paper at 100 yards with moa results. I don't know how but I can hit small targets (2-3 in gongs) at 300-500 yards with it relatively efficiently.

 

[bustin]

Try 24gr RE15 with 75 and 77gr bullets. Pretty much the standard highpower match load. About the same as Varget but RE15 gives a little more velocity.

 

[svxwilson]

I ran across a bunch of SMK 77gr so I bought a box of 500. Nosler vs Sierra in the 77gr? Does anyone have a preference? I have just been buying whatever I can when it's available but now I have 75gr hornady bthp, nosler 77gr bthp, and Sierra SMK 77gr.
I would like to eventually narrow it all down to one specific load with all same parts and ingredients for accuracy sake. Suggestions?

 

[KUSA]

I ran across a bunch of SMK 77gr so I bought a box of 500. Nosler vs Sierra in the 77gr? Does anyone have a preference? I have just been buying whatever I can when it's available but now I have 75gr hornady bthp, nosler 77gr bthp, and Sierra SMK 77gr.
I would like to eventually narrow it all down to one specific load with all same parts and ingredients for accuracy sake. Suggestions?

The 77 gr SMK is considered by most to be bullet of choice due to its high BC and terminal ballistics. This is not to suggest the others are not up to par though. I have a load using the SMK, Winchester brass, Remington 7 1/2 primers and 24.3 gr of TAC that produce 1/2 moa or better out of a precision AR and 1 moa or better out of an AR with a 16 inch DD 1/7 5.56 barrel.
I originally developed that load for my precision AR. After I put my DD barrel in my carbine I wanted to see how it shot with this load. The first group measured about 3/4 of an inch at 100 yards and every group following was around 1 moa or so.
A 16 inch chrome lined 5.56 barrel that shoots 1 moa is plenty good for me so I did not have any interest in developing a load specifically for it. I have a load that shoots great out of both rifles.
If I were you I would develop a load with the SMK and then try the same recipe using the Nosler. You may get lucky and find that they perform close to each other.

 

[BoilerUP]

Never tried the 77 SMK, but the 77gr Nosler CC shoots better than the 75gr HPBT in my 18" 1:8 BHW barrel (though the HPBT ain't bad).

 

[shootist~]

I ran across a bunch of SMK 77gr so I bought a box of 500. Nosler vs Sierra in the 77gr? Does anyone have a preference? I have just been buying whatever I can when it's available but now I have 75gr hornady bthp, nosler 77gr bthp, and Sierra SMK 77gr.
I would like to eventually narrow it all down to one specific load with all same parts and ingredients for accuracy sake. Suggestions?

The 77 gr SMK /w c and 77 gr Nosler shoot to the same POI to ~ 400+ in my 18" Noveske with the SMKs running ~0.5 MOA flatter at 700 Meters. Accuracy is very good with both and about the same between the two, as far as I can tell - at least to mid-range.

Load is 24.2 TAC, Rem 7 1/2 primers, LC cases @ 2.255" COL. Velocity is just over 2,700 fps with the Noslers and just under 2,700 with the SMKs; (not chrono'd on the same day or same lot of powder so who knows.) The 75 gr Hornadys do not work as well in my rifles.

 

[mkd315]

Ar 15 16" Barrel 75 hpbt

I am trying to work a load up using mixed LC brass,Varget, Fed 205 primer and either Hornady 68 and 75 HPBT.
I have tried numerous powder charges from 24.3 to 25.5 grs. Any load of 24.8 grs or more, the dies are denting in the bullets close to the olgive of the bullet. Even with Fed, PMC, Frontier and Rem brass. The best groups I can get are low .900"s. Anyone one have any input to help out on this. I would like speed to be close to 2700 fps or more.
This is my first AR, I am more into precision bolt guns. I know I will not get the one ragged hole groups I am used to, but would like .750 or a little better.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Hornady 75gr HPBT
25.0grs of CFE
CCI #41 Primers
Remington Brass
Loaded to 2.260"

Haven't Chronoed yet but get 1/2" groups at 100yds out of a 20" 1:8 Twist 5R ARP Barrel and 1.5" groups at 100yds out of a 10.3" Daniel Defense CHF 1:7 Twist AR15 Pistol with Red dot.

 

[insight3b]

My Colt 6920 loves 24.1gr of N140 with a 77gr Nosler custom competition. My WOA 18in SPR bbl with rifle length gas system and 1/7 twist also likes this load but doesn't prefer it. I get better velocity through both than I do with Federal Gold Medal 77gr SMK.

 

[BoilerUP]

I am trying to work a load up using mixed LC brass,Varget, Fed 205 primer and either Hornady 68 and 75 HPBT.
I have tried numerous powder charges from 24.3 to 25.5 grs. Any load of 24.8 grs or more, the dies are denting in the bullets close to the olgive of the bullet. Even with Fed, PMC, Frontier and Rem brass. The best groups I can get are low .900"s. Anyone one have any input to help out on this. I would like speed to be close to 2700 fps or more.
This is my first AR, I am more into precision bolt guns. I know I will not get the one ragged hole groups I am used to, but would like .750 or a little better.

Probably not gonna get 2700fps with 75s and Varget unless your barrel is 20"...and even then, maybe not.

What's your twist?

 

[mkd315]

My twist is 1-7 bcm barrel. With Rem Brass 25.0 grs varget, 68 hornady hpbt I have groups down to .343-.367, but have a bunch of LC brass and only a couple hundred rem brass. Plus do not have and can not get any 68 gr right now have around a thousand back orded and waiting like everyone. lol. I do have and would rather use 75 gr hpbt though.

 

[shootist~]

I am trying to work a load up using mixed LC brass,Varget, Fed 205 primer and either Hornady 68 and 75 HPBT.
I have tried numerous powder charges from 24.3 to 25.5 grs. Any load of 24.8 grs or more, the dies are denting in the bullets close to the olgive of the bullet. Even with Fed, PMC, Frontier and Rem brass. The best groups I can get are low .900"s. Anyone one have any input to help out on this. I would like speed to be close to 2700 fps or more.
This is my first AR, I am more into precision bolt guns. I know I will not get the one ragged hole groups I am used to, but would like .750 or a little better.

I'm pretty sure you are loading a very compressed charge with Varget. Just not enough room in the case, resulting in the damage to the olgive.

 

[LRRPF52]

Remember how many have said that the 75gr A-MAX can't be seated to fit mag-length and feed properly from an AR15? Yeah, well one of the attendees at our DM Course this past weekend showed up with a few hundred loads with exactly that, and proceeded to make 1st-round hits from closer range (250yds), to 450yds like it was cool, in 17F with 20mph+ winds, from a 16" Centurion barreled AR15 w/Surefire suppressor. I was giving him wind calls, but that load was consistently flying where we wanted it to.

Recipe was:
75gr A-MAX
22.8gr 8208 XBR
2.250" COL

Not sure what brass he was using. If there was one load in .223 I would go to, it would be this, and that is a change for me after the weekend. I have played with the 75gr A-MAX, but just couldn't bring myself to seat it any deeper as it looked like the ogive would make a scoop, but on his loads, that wasn't the case. That bullet bucks the wind extremely well.

 

[BC 6.8]

For guys running stick powders, have you seen any differences in accuracy with changes in bullet seating depth? I'm thinking about testing some different COALs for my 75 gr HPBT/Re15 load.

Thanks.

 

[sentry1]

I appreciate everyone's input. This will be helpful.
If weather cooperates I will go out Sunday with some test loads.
How have you guys tackled the primer crimp in the NATO brass such as the LC. I have a hard time getting the primers to seat right and without a battle with the freshly prepped lc brass. The second time I load them it gets easier but still not smooth every time. Any suggestions or is that just the way it is?
I have lapua brass for the precision rounds but planned on using the lc for my plinking rounds.

I had so much LC crimped brass laying around, I just shelled out $90 for Dillon Super Swage thingy. Rolls the primer crimp right outta the way.

 

[tactserv]

Dillon Super Swage thingy

I had so much LC crimped brass laying around, I just shelled out $90 for Dillon Super Swage thingy. Rolls the primer crimp right outta the way.

I got one of these off Ebay and the previous owner had modded it so when you lowrerd the handle it lowered the case and raised it when the handle was returned to the upright position.

Makes using it much faster.

Mike

 

[Strykervet]

I'm still working with powders, sorry. I use military grade CCI primers. From what I'm told, all CCI primers are the same except cup thickness and in the case of BR primers, a bit better quality control that isn't likely to affect you with a semi weapon in the first place --but could cause slam fires. Anyway, I don't notice much difference between BR primers and mil primers, only mil primers are safer. I find the 77's and 75's to work well too. I do use the ones with cannelures, just seen too many bullets jammed in the case before without it. I don't suffer much from semi auto doing it this way, and with bolts I'd just use the non-cannelures as they don't really need it. I like the LC brass, but I understand it is wise to reduce the load some using those cases.

RCBS trim station is nice. Has turning heads to clean out primer pockets, necks, lube them --it does it all in one machine, check it out, you may like it. I'm very satisfied with it. You can take into the LR and watch a movie while prepping brass. Now length trimming cases, I got one with a hand crank. Big mistake. Now I alter by chucking a DeWalt drill in it instead. Modified my RCBS (no, didn't pay the price for their adapter, I just chucked it up after removing the handle). Works great, cheap fix. But get an auto one if can. Trimming to length sucks worse than any other operation I feel. I hate it.

 

[SteveA1]

I just got a new rifle. It is a Daniels defense V7. I love it and I got it with the idea of loading heavy rounds for it. I have 77gr nosler custom competition hpbt and 75 gr hornady hpbt bullets. I have TAC, varget, and ar comp, I also have vv n-140 on its way but it will be a few weeks. I have a couple hundred cases that are lc 10-12. I have them sorted by years. I also just got some lapua brass for it because I have inconsistencies with the lc brass and I have not found a good method to prep the lc brass with their crimped primer pockets (what a pain in the ass). I do not have a chronograph yet or a good case trimmer I am looking for suggestions for those items.

I am looking for suggestions for this 16" barrel with a 1/7 twist. Any good loads anybody has found with this application or experiance with simpilar ones. I am using CCI bench rest primers with the lapua brass. I have the above listed powders to use. I am new to reloading for my rifles. I have been Loading for 9mm, 10mm, .357 mag, and .44 mag for 3-4 yrs now just trying something new. I am looking for mid range accuracy with this gun 200-600 yards. I have a 308 and 6.5 Grendel for longer than 600. I have not begun to load for the other two yet I want to get the 5.56 down first.

What did you settle on for a load. I too have a 16" 1:7 from Spikes Tactical and I'm looking for a good load for 75gr BTHP over LC brass and loading XBR.