Rifle Scopes Replacement is here, Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x

Niles Coyote

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    I ordered my PST FFP 4-16x on June 16th and was a bit surprised to hear it would be at my door July 1st from Midway USA. Upon opening the package I found every thing present that should be minus a couple minor scratches to the sunshade, it came in contact with a turret during transport.

    After running the turrets through their full range, I returned it to mechanical center and mounted it to a optics deprived 308 Remington Tactical. I leveled the scope to the base rail using the feeler gauge method and inspected the reticle. To my eye it did not appear to be canted.

    Range day;
    I spent several hours checking reticle spacing and adjustment and I am happy to report that, as best as I can tell, both are on the money. I did not see any reticle cant during movement through 15 mils.

    View at 4x
    003.jpg


    View at 16x
    002.jpg


    How it looks from the drivers seat, Disregard the dots on the cardboard, but the tape measure dots are 5 mil and correct.
    001.jpg



    I was able to zero the rifle with no problems and install the zero stop shims with ease. I let the rifle cool for 30 minutes and check the resolution against an optical chart, some printed words of different text size and bullseye’s of different size.
    004-1.jpg


    I will add to this shortly with a Leupold vx3 tactical m3 and Nikon monarch gold that has beaten every Leupold mk4 and vx3 I’ve put against it. For now I had my 3.5-15x Nightforce with me to make comparisons. Well this is no Nightforce… But it is very good and I will be surprised if it isn’t as good as the Leupold’s I own. The biggest difference was in the brightness of the PST, it was washing out the black edge detail of my chart/targets as compared to the view through NF and because of that I could resolve the next size smaller lines, numbers and target with NF. But all in all the view through PST looks very good.

    The only fault I can find with the PST is the turret resistance. The turrets adjust way too easy for my liking. The clicks are audible and positive by feel; they just need a little more resistance to them.

    Pictures of the system set up
    006.jpg


    005.jpg
     

    HOGGHEAD

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x review

    I realize how difficult it is to take a picture through a scope. So my comment may be out of line becaue of the camera. But the crispness of those images(IMO) are very poor. But as I sad that could be because of the camera. But if the camera is showing what is really there then I would be very disappointed with that glass. There is no clarity in those pictures. The leaves on the tree looks like a green blob. And the limb shadows look like clubs. The card board box looks hazy at best.

    I am not sure how far you are away from that tree in the background. But unless you are hundreds of yards away, you should easily be able to see indivivual leaves (clearly) with $900 glass. Tom.
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    It's the camera and my picture taking skills. Sorry for the crummy pictures. The camera is a older 4meg. I was having a difficult time holding the camera steady and in the right position to see through the scope and lock the auto focus on something for a clear view while holding the rifle.
     

    McKinneyMike

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x review

    If you "read his descriptive review" he said that it was very good compared to his NF, but was a little washed out a little compared to it on the black edges making it not quite as easy to see the finest details vs a NF. Sounds pretty damn clear to me, but my reading comprehension may not be the best
    smile.gif

    I have yet to see a camera show what the eye sees.
     

    BCP

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x review

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I realize how difficult it is to take a picture through a scope. So my comment may be out of line becaue of the camera. But the crispness of those images(IMO) are very poor. </div></div>

    It's his camera.
     

    BCP

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's the camera and my picture taking skills. Sorry for the crummy pictures. The camera is a older 4meg. I was having a difficult time holding the camera steady and in the right position to see through the scope and lock the auto focus on something for a clear view while holding the rifle. </div></div>

    From what others are saying the eyebox is really small on max power so that could make taking a picture with a camera a real bitch.
     

    JFComfort

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Thanks for the review, I'm glad you had better luck with yours than others!
     

    bolloxinaspanner

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x review

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ordered my PST FFP 4-16x on June 16th and was a bit surprised to hear it would be at my door July 1st from Midway USA. </div></div>
    Guess I should have ordered through Midway.
     

    cuffm4615

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x review

    Thanks for taking the time to put up this review and pics I, like many waiting for this scope, greatly appreciate it.
     

    SuddenDeath

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x review

    Niles,
    Thank you for your time and effort on the review, it was very informing, I actually learned some stuff from it as how to check somethings and what to look for. Can't wait to get mine....
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchinOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much elevation does your scope have until it tops out? </div></div>

    25 MILS
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchinOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much elevation does your scope have until it tops out? </div></div>

    I will double check for you but I think its around 16 mil, more than enough to reach 1k.
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchinOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much elevation does your scope have until it tops out? </div></div>

    25 MILS </div></div>
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchinOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much elevation does your scope have until it tops out? </div></div>

    I will double check for you but I think its around 16 mil, more than enough to reach 1k.</div></div>

    Just double checked and I have 14 mil remaining with a 100 zero using 155 amax moving around 2800fps. That’s using a 20 moa base.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchinOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much elevation does your scope have until it tops out? </div></div>

    25 MILS </div></div>

    coldboremiracle, you may want to double check that. The scope has a 21 mil adjustment range. On a zero base you will have just less than half that. A 20moa base will add a little over 5mil and a 30moa base a little over 8mil. At best you would end up just short of 19 mil available, using a 30moa base and a 100 yard zero, unless you are including 10 mil of hold over... Is that how you are coming up with 25?
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    no, i'm just measuring from bottom to top, not how much there is after zeroing the rifle. 5 rotations at 5 mils a turn is 25 mil's isn't it, or maybe my math has lost its edge
    sick.gif
    or worse yet, my scope is F'ed up.
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    gotcha, That was something I did too but don't remember if it was more than 21 on mine or not. Thanks for the reply
    smile.gif
     

    dcjs

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    "Number of turret clicks" may not correspond to "available reticle movement" in some scopes. If you want to make sure you don't have any "dead clicks" that don't actually move the reticle, you will have to look through the scope while turning the knob to make sure the reticle actually moves throughout the whole click range of the turrets.
     

    VITA per Veritas

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    David,
    That is a very astute comment. Thanks for posting that. I hadn't considered clicks w/o movement.

    Thanks
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    I took few comparison pictures at 1000 yards today. Plates are 36" 24" and 12" with a life size P-dog target next to the IPSC target.

    PST at 16x
    002-1.jpg


    PST at 10x
    003-1.jpg


    PST at 8x
    004.jpg


    Nightforce at 15x
    005-1.jpg


    Nightforce 3.5-15x50 at 10x
    006-1.jpg


    Nightforce at 8x
    007.jpg


    Leupold vx3 pre mk4 3.5-10x40 at 10x
    008.jpg


    Leupold at 8x
    009.jpg


    Shot today 100 to 800 and the PST tracked fine. Including a first round hit at 500 using a new load and w/jbm generated drop sheet.
    grin.gif
     

    ReaperDriver

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took few comparison pictures at 1000 yards today. Plates are 36" 24" and 12" with a life size P-dog target next to the IPSC target.

    PST at 16x
    002-1.jpg


    PST at 10x
    003-1.jpg


    PST at 8x
    004.jpg


    Nightforce at 15x
    005-1.jpg


    Nightforce 3.5-15x50 at 10x
    006-1.jpg


    Nightforce at 8x
    007.jpg


    Leupold vx3 pre mk4 3.5-10x40 at 10x
    008.jpg


    Leupold at 8x
    009.jpg


    Shot today 100 to 800 and the PST tracked fine. Including a first round hit at 500 using a new load and w/jbm generated drop sheet.
    grin.gif
    </div></div>

    Great pics. Can someone do the side by side photoshop trick like someone did last week? Makes comparing the different scopes at the same power a bit easier. I would but my photoshop skillz suck.
     

    leonoe

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Thanks for the pics! I'm new to long range shooting so it gave me an appreciation for what you get for the extra cost of a NF vs. PST optics quality... Can definitely tell the difference especially at higher mag. For my eyes, the PST seems pretty equal to the VX3.
     

    m1k3

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    I can Photoshop them together this evening (few hours from now). I know the camera may not be taking a true representation of the image quality but it looks like it shows the ability of the NightForce over the Viper.

    Mike
     

    m1k3

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Hows this? Its 1200 x 1200 but the crops are not resized from the original photos shown above.
    Vortex2.jpg


    Mike
     

    m1k3

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Its all I can do to keep from going mad while waiting on my PST!
    laugh.gif
     

    SuperSeal110

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    That range looks familiar. I haven't been down their all summer, but hoping to get there within a week or two.
     

    showlow50

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Great work on your review of the pst. You are realy killing me, just when i was ok with my ss 10x I realize that the pst in with in my budget. The nf is a great scope but out of my budget right now. Thanks again
     

    Austincqc

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Wow...this is one of the best reviews that I've seen. Very little bias can be placed against the side by side comparison pics.

    Well done.
     

    Brasscow

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuperSeal110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That range looks familiar. I haven't been down their all summer, but hoping to get there within a week or two.</div></div>

    Gotta ask... where is this?
     

    Oddball Six

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    I meshed together and uploaded a full resolution comparison picture of the 10x photos. Riflescopes often yield the best clarity comparison at less than their maximum magnification.

    NOTE that it is high resolution (1920 x 620) and weighs in at about 1.25 MB in size as a 24-bit PNG file. (Done this way so compression does not affect the photos.)

    At 10x:
    http://www.wanderson.org/Side-by-Side_Reticles.png

    At 8x:
    http://www.wanderson.org/Side-by-Side_Reticles_8x.png

    Also, please realize that you are not seeing apples to apples. There appear to be minor variances in magnificant and definite variations in relative size in the photos. The other thing here is that these are COMPRESSED JPEG originals! Compression may affect quality as much as the original glass does!

    These should give you an ok idea but it would be great if the original photos could have been saved in a loss-less format.

    The differences in relative size and so forth are so great that I did not do one of these for the max magnification photos as they are too dissimilar to yield a fair comparison.

     

    jrob300

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Pretty much shows what we saw before... the fairly significant red spectrum chromatic aberration in the PST makes the image appear far worse than it probably is (look at the 4x8 piece of plywood in the lower right at 10x.)

    I find it interesting that the original photos of the 6-24 shown to us by Scott_at_Vortex, one of the posters asked "do the production scopes have the rose colored glass in them?". IIRC he was trashed for asking the question. I believe this red spectrum attributes to this perception. Maybe I'm just really sensitive, but it's always been there. Sam@Vortex's response was, "I have looked through every single PST prototype we have and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the glass. It is very clear and color neutral."

    I can forgive quite a bit of green and blue fringing, because for the most part it goes away against dark objects, but pink is annoying as hell. I pick it up immediately in an optic that displays it, but sometimes will miss blue or green for the reasons stated.

    John
     

    JEdmiston

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Great review. Looks like decent glass for the money, if you can avoid the QC issues. Thanks
     

    elkstalker338

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    LOL I cannot see much different in the NF and PST, and NO pinkish tint in the PST pics, of course I am getting up there in years but still no glasses yet, the only diff. I can see between the 2 is alittle bit of clearity that the NF has. Still waiting for my 6-24 ffp,
     

    limamike56

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    The Nightforce appears to have better glass to my eyes. I was surprised at the amount of difference. Thanks for doing this.
     

    1812

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    Looks to me like the biggest difference is around the outside edge, where the NF is quite a bit better. It's also quite a bit more money.
     

    jrob300

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DuaneC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL I cannot see much different in the NF and PST, and NO pinkish tint in the PST pics, of course I am getting up there in years but still no glasses yet</div></div>

    Not tint, fringe. And if you can't see it on the edge of the plywood in the lower right corner, you don't need glasses, you need to turn in your drivers license.
    grin.gif


    John
     

    yoterunner

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DuaneC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL I cannot see much different in the NF and PST, and NO pinkish tint in the PST pics, of course I am getting up there in years but still no glasses yet, the only diff. I can see between the 2 is alittle bit of clearity that the NF has. Still waiting for my 6-24 ffp, </div></div>

    I agree, I cannot say that I see pinkish tint to the pictures.
     

    tt350z

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DuaneC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL I cannot see much different in the NF and PST, and NO pinkish tint in the PST pics, of course I am getting up there in years but still no glasses yet, the only diff. I can see between the 2 is alittle bit of clearity that the NF has. Still waiting for my 6-24 ffp, </div></div>

    The pinkish tint they're talking about is the amount of chromatic aberration (CA), it occurs when the lens can't focus all the colors to the same point. It's most noticeable on the edges of objects.

    PST on left at 8x and the NF on the right at 8x. Look at the area circled in red it should be pretty easy to spot the pink "aura" around the white target on the PST but there's none on the NF and slightly on the VX3. My viper 6.5-20x50 has the same reddish CA. My pics a lil small but you'll know what to look for in the larger pics above.
    1-1.jpg


    Also, remember that even camera lenses can have CA, which may compound the actual amount of CA that's present.
     

    jrob300

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tt350z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, remember that even camera lenses can have CA, which may compound the actual amount of CA that's present. </div></div>

    I *did* take this into account and concluded that because the same camera took the three pictures and represented the PST in the worst light (no pun intended) with regard to red spectrum CA that it *was* significant.

    That's why I said it may not be that bad in actuality (due to the fact that, *if* the camera had the same CA, they would compound). Keep in mind though, that 3 cameras have now represented the same CA in the PST's. Just sayin'.

    John
     

    tt350z

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tt350z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, remember that even camera lenses can have CA, which may compound the actual amount of CA that's present. </div></div>

    I *did* take this into account and concluded that because the same camera took the three pictures and represented the PST in the worst light (no pun intended) with regard to red spectrum CA that it *was* significant.

    That's why I said it may not be that bad in actuality (due to the fact that, *if* the camera had the same CA, they would compound). Keep in mind though, that 3 cameras have now represented the same CA in the PST's. Just sayin'.

    John </div></div>

    Nothing was directed towards you. The fact that you did use the same camera for all 3 scopes should make the actual CA difference negligible. Just wanted to let some people know about CA and that a camera may compound it. Especially if they are comparing pics from another person/reviewer.

    Again Thanks for all the pics.
     

    jrob300

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tt350z</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tt350z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, remember that even camera lenses can have CA, which may compound the actual amount of CA that's present. </div></div>

    I *did* take this into account and concluded that because the same camera took the three pictures and represented the PST in the worst light (no pun intended) with regard to red spectrum CA that it *was* significant.

    That's why I said it may not be that bad in actuality (due to the fact that, *if* the camera had the same CA, they would compound). Keep in mind though, that 3 cameras have now represented the same CA in the PST's. Just sayin'.

    John </div></div>

    Nothing was directed towards you. The fact that you did use the same camera for all 3 scopes should make the actual CA difference negligible. Just wanted to let some people know about CA and that a camera may compound it. Especially if they are comparing pics from another person/reviewer.

    Again Thanks for all the pics. </div></div>

    Yup. Thanks for the pics.

    No offense taken.

    John
     

    Oddball Six

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    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    That's why I said it may not be that bad in actuality (due to the fact that, *if* the camera had the same CA, they would compound). Keep in mind though, that 3 cameras have now represented the same CA in the PST's. Just sayin'.
    </div></div>

    Not saying jrob is right or wrong on the product as I know nothing about the original camera(s) but demonstrating what he is looking at.

    Rose tint via blown up view of 10x magnification comparison:
    http://www.wanderson.org/Rose_Tint_CA.png

    Same caveats apply. Originals were compressed. Originals had different relative sizes. Link is high res. Large file size. Etc.
     

    Niles Coyote

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Aug 13, 2007
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    South West, MI
    Re: another Vortex Viper PST FFP 1/10mil 4-16x rev

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brasscow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuperSeal110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That range looks familiar. I haven't been down their all summer, but hoping to get there within a week or two.</div></div>

    Gotta ask... where is this?</div></div>

    http://www.youngslongshot.com/

    Youngs long shot, a little south of Lagrange, Indiana.



    m1k3, Oddball-Six and tt350z thanks for the extra help with the pictures.

    Now I know what chromatic aberration looks like…
    shocked.gif


    For the record, I am enjoying this scope. It is my first expereince with a FFP and I fear it is going to cost me...