Range Report Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

[Morgan711]

Are the .22 and .223 not EQUAL in the sub-sonic stage ???

Per say all is even in FPS muzzle velocity
IE ..Augila .22 60gr traveling @ 1050 fps
Engel Ballistics .223 62gr @ 1050

Both have same fps and almost identical mass , why burn the extra powder in the .223 to basicly do what the .22 can do ??

Or am I missing some greater mystical equasion here ??

 

[bohem]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

The 60gr Aguila is not known for it's accuracy. Just the opposite actually.

It's also much harder to get a barrel twist quick enough to sabilize them.

That being said, I don't shoot subsonic 223's, just subsonic 22's. I agree with the cost of the ammo to shoot it. I also don't use the 60gr SSS ammo because it sucks. I can cloverleaf the match grade 40gr ammo or I can pepper the target with 60gr bullets, I'll go with the more precise 40gr ammo to take care of the job.

 

[jwp6114]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

B.C will not be the same... i think

 

[jwp6114]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

but i have seen sub-sonic 22.lr shot accurately out to 400 yds. i was impressed.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

Green Mountain makes 1/9 twist for the 10/22. It's expressly intended for the Augila 60gr ammo.

I've wondered how the Augila's might perform in a 1/9 or faster AR15 with a rimfire kit.

 

[Morgan711]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">B.C will not be the same... i think </div></div>
True , but I was wondering about energy,trajectory, etc.. out to say 200 yds .
Lots of folk use .223 over the .22 for varmint control , just wondering why when in the sub stages a .22 should work just as well and cost much less ?

 

[bohem]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

You can still shoot full bore 223 through a suppressor and get a significant reduction in both sound signature and there's no flash to blind the NV optics. The blinding flash seems to be the biggest bonus to a couple guys I converse with that use them for varmints at night on their farms.

There's still a sonic crack from the bullet, but it's significantly quieter than the muzzle blast without it. "Ear safe" is a relative term that I don't much prescribe to. However, I have shot full power 7.62x54R through a suppressor and it sounds like standard velocity 22's until the bullet hits. Then it sounds like someone just crashed a dumptruck through the woods at 60 mph.

 

[Morgan711]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

Bohem ,
I use my .223 silencer on my Sig Mosquioto .22 and it sounds like a BB pistol.
What brought this idea up is ...the .22subs seem to zing right along with the same "Power" as the .223subs when shot side by side ...

 

[jwp6114]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

Well if you are talking equal in energy, then yes, if you have the same weight projectile coming out the pipe at the same muzel vel. they should have near the same energy at close ranges, but a bullet with a higher B.C. will have more energy than the bullet with the lower B.C.at further distances. if im not mistaken.

doesn't matter if its rim fire or center fire, its a matter of bullet weight, velocity, and b.c, and range of impact.

 

[Sig685]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Morgan711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are the .22 and .223 not EQUAL in the sub-sonic stage ???

Per say all is even in FPS muzzle velocity
IE ..Augila .22 60gr traveling @ 1050 fps
Engel Ballistics .223 62gr @ 1050

Both have same fps and almost identical mass , why burn the extra powder in the .223 to basicly do what the .22 can do ??

Or am I missing some greater mystical equasion here ?? </div></div>

I thought I would take a crack at answering your question (pun intended.)

I believe the Aguila bullet is a lead bullet, without a jacket. A .224 caliber bullet of 60 or 62 grain (or any weight for that matter) will be jacketed bullet. Even if you are keeping the velocity below the speed of soud, so let's say no higher than 950 FPS (which is what the Aguila 60gr ammo is rated at,) you must still push the bullet out of the case and get it engraved in the lands and then you have to push the .224 caliber bullet in what is essentially a .216 to .217 hole and that's going to require some force whereas the .22LR soft lead bullet simply goes through the barrel like you know what through a goose.

 

[Jeff in TX]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but i have seen sub-sonic 22.lr shot accurately out to 400 yds. i was impressed. </div></div>

I'm assuming you're just joking! If not I'll call total BS on that statement. First no sub-sonic ammo is accurate out to 400 yards, way too much hollywood in that statement. Just running rough numbers on a .30 gr sub-sonic 22 lr, you're looking at close to 75 moa at 400 yards with a 100 yard zero. That's slightly more accurate than a slingshot at that distance.

However, I know you were just kidding and wanted to see how many knuckheads believed you!

 

[jwp6114]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

mabey the guy's using standard velocity were making all the hits, but one guy was slinging them out there. i was shooting a 17hmr and had a group the size of a wattermellon.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

I bought the powder to load some sub-.223. Then I realized I have a .22LR and suppressor.

No trouble required and a lighter system with similar terminal effects.

 

[Austan]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

Would it (223) be used because of the jacketed bullet as opposed to a chunk of lead in terms of eradicating varmints on the hush hush?

 

[Morgan711]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought the powder to load some sub-.223. Then I realized I have a .22LR and suppressor.

No trouble required and a lighter system with similar terminal effects.

</div></div>

This is my initial comprehension exactly , and what I was wanting to basicly hear ..Just Fishing the Pond !

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would it (223) be used because of the jacketed bullet as opposed to a chunk of lead in terms of eradicating varmints on the hush hush? </div></div>

I would think a varmint type .223 bullet would still be more devastating on a small critter than any of the subsonic 22 LR. HP offerings.

 

[bohem]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Morgan711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bohem ,
I use my .223 silencer on my Sig Mosquioto .22 and it sounds like a BB pistol.
What brought this idea up is ...the .22subs seem to zing right along with the same "Power" as the .223subs when shot side by side ... </div></div>

Yes, they're ballistic twins for less hassle and cost to just shoot the LR ammo.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

Many of us have done the math on this and concluded that the .22LR makes a very good subsonic round, and that small caliber centerfires tend to be redundant in such applications where the .22LR is adequate.

Where it is not, it pays to go with as big a bore and as big a bullet as can be practically employed, since supersonic velocities cannot be relied upon to produce the needed degree of terminal energy. Running bullets supersonic past a suppressor negates a bunch of the silencing advantage the suppressor is intended to provide.

Greg

 

[bohem]

Re: Riddle me this ...Ballistic Guru's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Many of us have done the math on this and concluded that the .22LR makes a very good subsonic round, and that small caliber centerfires tend to be redundant in such applications where the .22LR is adequate.

Where it is not, it pays to go with as big a bore and as big a bullet as can be practically employed, since supersonic velocities cannot be relied upon to produce the needed degree of terminal energy. Running bullets supersonic past a suppressor negates a bunch of the silencing advantage the suppressor is intended to provide.

Greg </div></div>

Dead on, hence my firm reliance on a 460gr cast lead bullet in 44cal to do the silent hunting work. Haven't had anything run yet.