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Rifle Scopes Scope tracking / recoil fixture

Bob the nailer

22-284 Overbore
Minuteman
Jul 23, 2019
11
10
Michigan
I'm building a fixture to test a scope for tracking ( a well talked about topic on this forum ) a feature that I have planned is the addition of recoil testing for zero shift while in the fixture. I am a brand ambassador for an optics manufacturer so this fixture will be able to really put some heavy recoil on test models. I'll post pics when the fixture is powder coated and filled...
 
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Yes I finished the fixture base ( it's heavy) with scope rail and adjustable pegs. I am having some design issues with the recoil release trigger. Then as it always goes I am currently side tracked with a Cartridge front ignition project.
 
The idea is to install a plunger rod with spring and rear stop. you will push the rod into the main tube from the rear compressing a heavy spring into a latch "sear" When triggered the spring will release and slam the rod stop the rear stop effectively duplicating recoil. Like I mentioned some design issues need to be addressed.
 

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no being involved...dumb question

if you are a brand ambassador why doesnt the brand just send you apiece of gear or at least give you the plans to their approved spec

being a brand i would like my entire team to get the same results from all testing performed with my name on it

if your design gets different results than the factory it muddies the water and message
 
no being involved...dumb question

if you are a brand ambassador why doesnt the brand just send you apiece of gear or at least give you the plans to their approved spec

being a brand i would like my entire team to get the same results from all testing performed with my name on it

if your design gets different results than the factory it muddies the water and message

Everything works perfect in the hands of the R&D team. It’s when the product is sent out “in the wild” When shit gets broken.
 
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100%

even more the reason to get a company fixture in the field
 
Any idea where to source a “frozen” optic?

As some of the other posts have alluded... that's the fly in the ointment. The damn things don't exactly come up for sale very often, and as I found out the hard way, about half the time they have some sort of weird mounting setup like a dovetail rail, etc.

The other rub is that you kind of need a higher magnification version (36x or above was recommended to me) to be able to really see the movement (or not, if you're lucky). The first few I came across were 24x, and didn't work all that great for this purpose.

That said... I've heard that it can often work with a good fixed power target scope in lieu of a truly frozen scope.
 
Hi folks. Perhaps a dumb question: I have never heard of a frozen scope. What is it, and what is it used for?

The Field and Cave fixture looked pretty interesting. Nice work.
 
i think you want to test impact (recoil) in both directions, for scar rifles or people that mount their scopes backwards. :giggle:
 
I have never heard of a frozen scope. What is it, and what is it used for?

Modern scopes have internal adjustments, with springs opposite the adjustment turrets. In theory, any shock to the system can potentially result in a slight movement of the internal lens cell, which is held in place by those springs. Any deviation, however slight, on the part of the springs to return the internals to the same point can manifest as a moving POI relative to POA.

Frozen scopes are where enterprising BR folks, in pursuit of the ultimate precision, take a fixed power target scope, and remove the turrets and springs and fix the internal cell in place. They then fabricate an external mount setup to facilitate holding / aiming the optic. The rear mount may have a set of precision micrometers, with locking screws opposite them. You unsecure the locking screws, make the adjustments, and re-secure the screws. The optic is held completely fixed or 'frozen' during the actual firing, with no opportunity for internal movement

The usage, in this situation, is as a reference optic where you *know* that the reticle cannot move due to anything other than how you position the gun. When you have both the reference optic, and the one under test, aligned on the same POA, you can start to see whether that Nightforce Competition 15-55x scope actually holds zero as well as you think it should. Does it settle in a few shots after an adjustment, or does it continue to 'walk' around for 6-8 shots. Does a Vortex Golden Eagle work better, or a Kahles K1050?

The short range (aka 'point blank) BR guys kinda started it ago, then the 1k BR guys refined the process a number of years ago, and then the F-class guys started getting on board. I'd say you probably need a gun and load capable of shooting down in the 0.2-0.3 moa realm (at distance) before you need to start worrying about the very small errors we're talking about here. The ELR crowd might be another group that could benefit.
 
Hi,,

Completely off topic, sorta...

IF I could only get back those 3 years working on forward ignition via cellulose detonator tubes........All I can offer is GOOD LUCK, lol!!

@Dthomas3523
Are you looking for a frozen scope to mess with or tear up, lol? I may have some old Weaver T36's that are frozen from back in my RF BR days.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
if you want a frozen just get a Quigly Ford, i heard they track perfect
 
Last edited:
Hi,,

Completely off topic, sorta...

IF I could only get back those 3 years working on forward ignition via cellulose detonator tubes........All I can offer is GOOD LUCK, lol!!

@Dthomas3523
Are you looking for a frozen scope to mess with or tear up, lol? I may have some old Weaver T36's that are frozen from back in my RF BR days.

Sincerely,
Theis

Lol. Just looking for one for scope checking under recoil. Nothing hard on the actual frozen optic.
 
Modern scopes have internal adjustments, with springs opposite the adjustment turrets. In theory, any shock to the system can potentially result in a slight movement of the internal lens cell, which is held in place by those springs. Any deviation, however slight, on the part of the springs to return the internals to the same point can manifest as a moving POI relative to POA.

Frozen scopes are where enterprising BR folks, in pursuit of the ultimate precision, take a fixed power target scope, and remove the turrets and springs and fix the internal cell in place. They then fabricate an external mount setup to facilitate holding / aiming the optic. The rear mount may have a set of precision micrometers, with locking screws opposite them. You unsecure the locking screws, make the adjustments, and re-secure the screws. The optic is held completely fixed or 'frozen' during the actual firing, with no opportunity for internal movement

The usage, in this situation, is as a reference optic where you *know* that the reticle cannot move due to anything other than how you position the gun. When you have both the reference optic, and the one under test, aligned on the same POA, you can start to see whether that Nightforce Competition 15-55x scope actually holds zero as well as you think it should. Does it settle in a few shots after an adjustment, or does it continue to 'walk' around for 6-8 shots. Does a Vortex Golden Eagle work better, or a Kahles K1050?

The short range (aka 'point blank) BR guys kinda started it ago, then the 1k BR guys refined the process a number of years ago, and then the F-class guys started getting on board. I'd say you probably need a gun and load capable of shooting down in the 0.2-0.3 moa realm (at distance) before you need to start worrying about the very small errors we're talking about here. The ELR crowd might be another group that could benefit.


@milanuk

I think I have seen them in the past. A scope held within over-sized rings by screws at 90* angles. But has been a long time.

Regardless, thank you and I appreciate the explanation.
 
@milanuk
I think I have seen them in the past. A scope held within over-sized rings by screws at 90* angles. But has been a long time.

Probably an old Unertl, or a Lyman Targetspot. Back before internal erector cells became a thing, that was how most scopes worked. Years later US 0ptics made a huge version that looked like a man-portable version of the Hubble telescope 🤣

Frozen scopes are an adaptation of the same concepts, but at BR level of precision.