I use a Leica rangefinder and have trouble getting it to give me a range when the item i am ranging has a snow background. Has anyone else experienced this with other brands?
- Thread starter The Shootist
- Start date
Just get a Terrapin and you'll have no trouble ranging anything within shooting range. We have a nice blanket of snow now and my Terrapin has yet to let me down. Ranged my 18x28" target at 1625 first try. Got readings on trees 2300+.
+1 on the Terrapin. I love mine! One of the best rifle equipment investments I've made.
What is the cost?
The Shootist
I've tried a lot of different rangefinders out and when you have snow are a lot of bright light the useful range shrinks up very quickly.If you know what your maximum distance will be add 800 yards to it and buy a rangefinder rated to that distance.
The Terrapin runs $2000 at Optics Planet and on a bright sunny day out here will range to 1500 meters.
I've tried a lot of different rangefinders out and when you have snow are a lot of bright light the useful range shrinks up very quickly.If you know what your maximum distance will be add 800 yards to it and buy a rangefinder rated to that distance.
The Terrapin runs $2000 at Optics Planet and on a bright sunny day out here will range to 1500 meters.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I can suffer thru the shortfalls of the Leica for a while and spend the 2K on a new .338 Lapua. Then I will actually need the terrapin. Very Logical don't you think?
I was quoted $1875 + $20 next day shipping by Alina Hussey ....I think she is a rep for them. So yeah you're looking at $2K. That is my next purchase now that I have a 338........ Next time I drink too much beer and grab a credit card..............
I was quoted $1875 + $20 next day shipping by Alina Hussey ....I think she is a rep for them. So yeah you're looking at $2K. That is my next purchase now that I have a 338........ Next time I drink too much beer and grab a credit card..............
Terrapin ranges well and is easy to use.
Don't waste your time with the Leica, I have one as well as the terrapin. That's the best bang for your buck. Nothing even comes close to the vectronix. Try ranging deer or targets past 600 yds. The terrapin will not only start to shine, it will blind you
I have the Leica myself, which my girlfriend got me as a gift (nice woman, I must say). Anyway, I like the rangefinder well enough, though I hear that it isn't as great as a Terrapin (that costs over 2.5 times as much). I've definitely noticed that the Leica doesn't like to range pure snow surfaces in bright sun beyond about 500 yards. But, I've also found that my targets are not made of snow, and that there is usually a viable, rangeable terrain feature on most snowy surfaces (trees, rocks, etc). I assume that a purely snow surface probably just defuses the laser upon contact.
I can typically range well beyond 1,000 yards without trouble in most environments (very bright sun and snow is the most challenging environment I've encountered). On days when conditions aren't crappy, ranging to beyond a mile (1760 yards) isn't problematic at all. In the canyons near my house I've ranged to nearly 2,000 yards on a number of occasions. I've found a few quirks with rangefinders: it's hard to get returns on glass surfaces on certain buildings or automobiles, trees are very easy to range with this device, animals and people are easy to range.
I can certainly range deer beyond the 600 yard distance that was listed in the last post, but I've found that the magnification level and reticle size are the most limiting factors in trying to determine if you've ranged the animal, or the terrain around the animal. I ranged a mule deer on a grass hill at around 1,094 yards the other day during an afternoon hike... that's a longer distance than I'd shoot at the thing! I also ranged a couple of P-dogs that I subsequently shot at 687 and 711 yards. The P-dogs were tough to range, and I took a few readings before convincing myself I was on the P-dog and not the surrounding terrain. I also regularly see deer in the 400-700 yard range in the areas where I hike, and haven't had any trouble ranging any of them.
Obviously the Vectronix Terrapin is supposed to be a superior rangefinder, and I don't doubt that it is. But, the Leica has sure performed well when compared with other units in its price class.
I can typically range well beyond 1,000 yards without trouble in most environments (very bright sun and snow is the most challenging environment I've encountered). On days when conditions aren't crappy, ranging to beyond a mile (1760 yards) isn't problematic at all. In the canyons near my house I've ranged to nearly 2,000 yards on a number of occasions. I've found a few quirks with rangefinders: it's hard to get returns on glass surfaces on certain buildings or automobiles, trees are very easy to range with this device, animals and people are easy to range.
I can certainly range deer beyond the 600 yard distance that was listed in the last post, but I've found that the magnification level and reticle size are the most limiting factors in trying to determine if you've ranged the animal, or the terrain around the animal. I ranged a mule deer on a grass hill at around 1,094 yards the other day during an afternoon hike... that's a longer distance than I'd shoot at the thing! I also ranged a couple of P-dogs that I subsequently shot at 687 and 711 yards. The P-dogs were tough to range, and I took a few readings before convincing myself I was on the P-dog and not the surrounding terrain. I also regularly see deer in the 400-700 yard range in the areas where I hike, and haven't had any trouble ranging any of them.
Obviously the Vectronix Terrapin is supposed to be a superior rangefinder, and I don't doubt that it is. But, the Leica has sure performed well when compared with other units in its price class.
I'm liking my Terrapin rather a lot too. Can't do much better in the price range. Vector 21 binos are superior, but way bigger and heavier.
Seriously was reconsidering my terrapin purchase after I saw the $1900 leave my bank account. Then I used them. It is without a doubt a serious piece of equipment that I would recommend to anyone that is a long range shooter. Even more as a mid-long range hunter.
Just this last weekend, i was out for my last week of coyote hunting. Ranged a deer across a fresh snow at 1300+ yards on the first try! Mind you I am in prone and was using my gun as a rest. Try that with a Leica or Swaro, not even close in comparison. Trust me I know, use to have one.
Check out my thread on my terrapin vs swaro's. Shows where these other "standard" rangefinders fall. Buy them without regard. Remember, you shouldn't have an issue selling them at a good price if you don't think they are worth the price tag.
Jason
Just this last weekend, i was out for my last week of coyote hunting. Ranged a deer across a fresh snow at 1300+ yards on the first try! Mind you I am in prone and was using my gun as a rest. Try that with a Leica or Swaro, not even close in comparison. Trust me I know, use to have one.
Check out my thread on my terrapin vs swaro's. Shows where these other "standard" rangefinders fall. Buy them without regard. Remember, you shouldn't have an issue selling them at a good price if you don't think they are worth the price tag.
Jason
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Long range shooting/hunting without a good rangefinder gets old in a hurry. If the shooter does not know the range it is pretty useless to own a long range rifle. The Terrapin is very good. I own one myself. I have owned the Lecia and the Swaro and there is no comparing. Whether we like it or not 2K is not very much. Getting the rifle is the first step but then you have got to get the rangefinder. It really makes more sense to look at the rifle and the rangefinder as a set. Without both not much is going to happen.
I have always been amazed by the guys that will spend 4-$10,000 dollars on a rifle and scope, but then bitch and moan about the price of a quality rangefinder like the Terrapin. I guess if you just want to guess and throw lead at a target and 15 shots later hit it and then brag about how great your $10,000 setup is then so be it but I agree with what was said above. Quality rangefinder should be higher on than the list then most people put it. If you can't accurately range the target then the precision of your shooting is going way down.
Yep, if youre posting in this section (unless your definition of ELR is under 1k yds) then you have two options under $2000.
Terrapin: Guaranteed to range anything you can shoot with under 338LM, in any conditions, by any retard behind the eyepiece.
Bushnell Fusion Binos: If you dont mind the size and weight, they will pretty consistantly range out to 1500 every time, in most any conditions, and usually range out to 1800 or so in good infrared conditions.
Obviously not everyone can justify, or even afford the Terrapin, and in that situation the Bushnells should serve you well, especially since it sounds like your rifle is sub 338LM anyway.
Terrapin: Guaranteed to range anything you can shoot with under 338LM, in any conditions, by any retard behind the eyepiece.
Bushnell Fusion Binos: If you dont mind the size and weight, they will pretty consistantly range out to 1500 every time, in most any conditions, and usually range out to 1800 or so in good infrared conditions.
Obviously not everyone can justify, or even afford the Terrapin, and in that situation the Bushnells should serve you well, especially since it sounds like your rifle is sub 338LM anyway.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
You guys that own Terrapins, how accurate do you think they are? The reason I ask is, two weeks ago a guy had one on our range and at our 1200 yard target, two different guys got the same 1248 readings for it. I ranged our 1350 and twice got 1412.
So who's actually ranging between 1500 and say 2200 yards and getting first round hits, or even with 5 rounds? If your missing, is anyone folowing up to recheck the distance by other means. We've all seen the through the unit pics of a tower at 3800 yards, buildings at 2800 yards, but has anyone confirmed these distances.
Needless to say, the two guys who ranged the 1200 yard target at 1248, never hit it, I shot for 1200 yards and had 2nd and 3rd round hits. And one guy was the one who measured the target distance originaly with a 100k Trimble GPS system.
I'm not bad mouthing the product at all here, just wondering. Just getting a reading at all, from a small object is impressive to say the least. For me with my chickenshit Ziess, it's cell phones and ranging the back window of the pickup, most times ranging half way, marking it, go pick the guy up and range again from that point.
So who's actually ranging between 1500 and say 2200 yards and getting first round hits, or even with 5 rounds? If your missing, is anyone folowing up to recheck the distance by other means. We've all seen the through the unit pics of a tower at 3800 yards, buildings at 2800 yards, but has anyone confirmed these distances.
Needless to say, the two guys who ranged the 1200 yard target at 1248, never hit it, I shot for 1200 yards and had 2nd and 3rd round hits. And one guy was the one who measured the target distance originaly with a 100k Trimble GPS system.
I'm not bad mouthing the product at all here, just wondering. Just getting a reading at all, from a small object is impressive to say the least. For me with my chickenshit Ziess, it's cell phones and ranging the back window of the pickup, most times ranging half way, marking it, go pick the guy up and range again from that point.
I have had first and second round hits with mine all the way out to 2018 yard. Also one thing you have to figure in is that unless you are using a ballistic software like FFS or Coldbore 1.0, your numbers after 1K are not going to be the most reliable anyway due to to ballistic engines used in common smart phone apps. Not saying its not possible to have good data with a Ballistic AE or the like but way more tweaking has to be done and I know that sometimes all the closer it will get you is a couple MOA. That is fine for the weekend warrior but for some it is not. When I say a couple MOA, I haven't seen a huge error. Until 1700+ yards and beyond. Data was pretty solid out to 1400 or so and then it starred to deteriorate from there.
There is a lot more things I would call into question before I suspected my Terrapin. Scope tracking, accurate muzzle velocity, lot to lot powder variations, accurate charge weights, accurate environmental data, ect. Not saying the Terrapin can't fail and shouldn't be verified but I would lean towards the others before for it. Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking but I have had way more problems with scopes and stuff than I have rangefinder.
There is a lot more things I would call into question before I suspected my Terrapin. Scope tracking, accurate muzzle velocity, lot to lot powder variations, accurate charge weights, accurate environmental data, ect. Not saying the Terrapin can't fail and shouldn't be verified but I would lean towards the others before for it. Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking but I have had way more problems with scopes and stuff than I have rangefinder.
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M
milo 2.0
Guest
Thanks,
I'm not really a hunter, and most of my long distance, or elr is a known distance stuff, we just don't move targets around much. Cows do, but not us!
So until we loose range privileges, I'm really not in the market for one, but they sound good.
For days when we do bring our head bangers out, we rarely set them past 900 anyway, and what rf's we have seem to do ok.
I'm not really a hunter, and most of my long distance, or elr is a known distance stuff, we just don't move targets around much. Cows do, but not us!
So until we loose range privileges, I'm really not in the market for one, but they sound good.
For days when we do bring our head bangers out, we rarely set them past 900 anyway, and what rf's we have seem to do ok.
I've been using a g7 and they work just fine without snow. But on snow even with the highest light setting the red readout is a bitch to read. You have to shoot the object then tilt it down to your hand to block the light and read the display. It will hit targets on snow pretty easy out to 1700-1800 yards. It's rated for 2k but with the size of the display aiming doesn't allow you to be super precise. So ranging at a distance requires reconfirmation. It is nice to have the correction displayed without having to go back to another gadget.
Deano
Deano
How were the 1200 and 1350 distances originally obtained? I know all the original distances at TVP were eventually changed once someone showed up with a Vectronix, and those are the distances that stand today.
I would venture to guess that the Vectronix is more accurate than whatever means a good number of ranges use to range their targets (ie Google earth, lesser LRF's getting lucky and hitting it every once in awhile)
I have no proof my Terrapin is accurate at what Im hitting, as finding a means to measure anything beyond 1k yards with any precision to begin with is a tough request.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
They were marked with a Trimble Gps system, roughly 100K worth. It's stationary unit with a portable satelite unit, which is also stand alone, to measure off of.
Acurate to 1/2", I don't think the DOD runs SA-selective availability anymore, but these people would have paid the fee's to waive it anyway.
The most any of the targets were off was 5 yards, done with a Burris range finder, and a Lowrance hand held gps, and all the five yard misses were because the guy ranging from his pickup didn't subtract the diff from where he was sitting, as opposed to where we shoot from.
Well I stand corrected there haha.
Also look at Newcon Optik they are a very good brand they make everything from 20km LRF costing $20,000 to 1.5km LRF costing only $1,500, also there cheaper than the Vectronix I'm not sure how good they are against each other I havn't purchased either but I am leaning towards the Newcon Optic!!
The terrapin is good but the 5x sucks
M
milo 2.0
Guest
I really wasn't trying question the worth of the Terrapin, it seemed to be a quality piece to me. My Ziess rf would have just blinked out at those distances. And my question to your little buddy Trevor was unfair in asking about 1st round hits. I should have phrased it, how close are you in elevation in regaards to the target. Believe me, I know of the Wyoming winds, temp amd DA on any given day can bone a guy 1 moa or more with ease.
But I do resort back to his answer of, within a couple moa. With the guns we use to shoot this distance, 2 moa usually equates to 35-50 yards at 12-1400 yards. So my question of actual or ballpark readings is still unanswered.
Yes we were lucky to have a guy with equipment to verify our distances, but on the flip side, we don't have the authority to move stuff around, and shoot in the same direction every time. So we're ultimately not learning as much as we should.
The couple of MOA reference was in regards to most smart phone ballistic software accuracy past about 1400 yards, not the accuracy of the Terrapin. The fence lines on my place were laid out with survey equipment and my terrapin reads within a few feet of what the original survey shows so I don't don't the accuracy of my Terrapin.
I'm looking at the Newcon Optic LRB 4000CI 7X50 LRF. It's supposed to range out to 4,000 meters with pluss or minus 1 meter accuracy. It's a bit pricey though! It costs about the same as my .375 Cheytac.
