Shoot. Move. Communicate??

[match-grade]

Am I getting senile, or was there a "Communicate" portion of Snipers Hide a while back?

If not, I think it would be kind of cool to see one on here. I personally am a Amateur Radio operator (ham) and have used CB, FRS and the like in the past.

I bet there are several other members how are hams as well. Gotta show love for 11 meters too (that's how I started before getting my ticket in '92)

I believe it would be good for people to know how to communicate with each other at various distances over different bands and modes. Radio tends to be a little more complicated than turning on and pressing the PTT.

Any ideas? Perhaps in field craft or something? Or should I stick with the old men at qrz, haha.

de N4EGA

 

[Maggot]

Id be interesgted in learning a bit. How much would a good radio that I wouldnt want to replace for a while but not too expensive be? Battery back up would be nice. How difficult to learn to operate it?

 

[match-grade]

Depends on what you mean by good and cost considerations.

Would you want to get an Amateur radio license? Getting a license, in my opinion, is the best way to learn a lot about communication. You have to know some electronic and propagation theory in order to pass the exam. It's not difficult. There are over 700,000 hams in the US. Some are PHD's, some are dumb as dirt. Old, young, boys and girls.

Price is what you set it. A lot of Chinese stuff is being sold here (I call it ChiComm, lol). Prices start at around 30 bucks on Amazon. Those radios are mainly for short range VHF/UHF communication. Around 25 miles or less. More if you go though a repeater. I don't work repeaters for the most part, as I prefer to be completely reliant on my equipment in what is called simplex. Simplex is radio to radio, with out a re-transmitter in the middle.

For medium to long range communication, you would want High Frequency (HF) gear. The least expensive on the market that I know of that would be the most reliable is the Alinco branded HF radio for about 520 Dollars. The high dollar mark for some of these rigs is around 10 grand (yes $10,000). Those are pretty specialized though.

Used gear abounds and you can get into a set up for about half the cost of new. Some old men are greedy bastards and they try to sell 10 year old stuff for more than current new. Just know your prices.

The most critical aspect is antenna selection. Basic antennas for HF can be home built for about 20 bucks. Some bought ones are thousands of dollars. But, make no mistake, antennas are what will make or break you. A good antenna is better than any amount of power that you transmit.

I said that HF is good for medium to long distance. Once you lean how to chase propagation, You will know which frequency/band to communicate with your buddy down the road or other side of country. This is very important too. Sometimes you can over shoot some one by being on the wrong band during the day. Lot of EASY science goes into it once you figure everything out.

 

[ricklaut]

I think it would be a good addition to the 'Hide.

I'm just licensed (tech, so only 2m/440 for now)... currently drinking from the fire hose and trying to learn as much as I can. I've found a couple of like minded nets on the air that I've joined. My original setup was one of the low cost Chinese setups - works well for what it is, and I was on the air for under $100. Like most of my endeavors, I poured more funds into the money pit already and moved up to better gear, but only after using that cheap setup to know that I wanted to learn more.

 

[TRD1911]

Really interested in this as well. Sub'd

 

[match-grade]

ricklaut,

lots of hf space for you with a tech ticket. 10m voice, 80 and 40 cw. If you don't done code, your computer will do it for you. And before someone freaks out about computer generated code, LOTS of hams do it. I can tell be listening. My code sucks. Been trying since 92 to be a decent CW op, but I am so tone deaf I get lost. If you have a HF + 6 meter rig, Sporadic E is open this time of year and it will take you several hundred to several thousand miles. I built a inverted delta loop for 6 and put it 20 feet in the air for about 25 bucks. I have several stateside 500+ mile dx with it.

 

[BullyDog]

I know a local guy that you can hear on your car radio. He said it was illegal. How does he do that? He has a antenna on top of a child play house that's elevated 20ft. up, that he converted into a studio for his drums and radio. So I guess his over all antenna would be up 35ft. or so. He just isn't in a good location like my house whitch is on the highest point in the area. My Great Grandfather had a HAM back in the days and I've heard storys of him reaching a long ways off, up here on the hill. He had what looked like a 30ft tall small radio tower. We tore it down a few years ago.

 

[Maggot]

For those wanting to become a Ham, study material and the test questions can be found in many places on the net.
I found most do very well taking the practice tests here, eHam.net Ham Radio Practice Exams
Once your into the 90% or better range each time, take the real test at a Ham Fest, local club, ect.
Never buy equipment until you understand what you want/need over what others think you should have.

Thanks, GF.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

KD8YQD. Only a lowly tech but better then nothin I suppose. Gonna take my general this fall I think. HF has a but more to offer but 2m is pretty cool. Amazing what you can do with an ht on 5w and little jpole. A sub forum in field craft would be sweet.

 

[Hairball]

I think the latest test bank is still good until June 2014. Tech level is all most will need unless you want to dabble in other bands; however, in an emergency, any level of operator can use any band they need to reach help and request assistance. Download the 500 questions with answers and just read it over for about two weeks and you should have no problem with the test and the questions on the test are the same ones you download so you should recognize the question and answer when you see it. It’s been a long time but I think the test is 30-35 questions if I recall correctly. If you go on the Internet and search for HAM exams you will find someone in your local area that holds exams. The exam costs 10 bucks or so. Also, be careful about posting your call sign as others can look it up and have your address as it’s registered with the FCC. May not be an issue for some but for those that like to post pics of very expensive collections.........

EDIT: I just looked it up and the old test bank expires at the end of this month and the new back is effective as of July 1st so make sure you study the right one

 

[Punisher29073]

What does one talk about on these radios?

I messed with CBs years ago to find out where my buddy's were and what not. Enjoyed that and had a small interest in bigger radios but don't know anyone into it. I learn better from seeing and doing so it's pretty intimidating to jump in.

Ryan

 

[Hairball]

Most people just use them to connect to others around the county or around the world for the simple reason of making contact. Mostly small talk and thats about it. There are contest with groups of who can make the most contact in a set number of hours or the longest distance contact. You can even call the International Space Station with a tech level license. I got into it for emergency purposes so In can have comms in an emergency and our phones don't work. You could also go the SAT Phone route but thats a lot of monthly payments for having something in an emergency. I have my radio in the truck or you could have a base station set up in the house. One nice thing I use mine for is to park my truck on a ridge line and then I can walk down into the valey and use my hand-held to bounce the signal up out of the valley to my truck and then on to the next tower. I live in SoCal and the other night I turned on the radio and listened to some folks talking to Japan.

Here is an older pic of my set-up in my 02 F250

 

[Killswitch Engage]

You're posting your call sign when you key that mic and say it. Anyone that wants to look it up can look it up. There's no anonymity from that.

 

[Hairball]

No, but I don't see whatever you post on the hide with just a random call sign lookup if I meet a random person while surfing a band. If you take the time to hide your address in your profile, you might want to be just as vigilant with giving out your address in the forums. JMHO. Lets say I'm some dirtbag that lives in Ohio and I also happen to check to see where you live and we live in the same zip 45895. I see some nice rifles you post and I also see that you will be going to a rifle class for the weekend out of state that you keep talking about. I know you are not home for the weekend so I drive by 909 blah blah street and see if anyone else is home. Not saying its likely but its something to consider.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

I Understand but when you blab your Xxxxx call sign which you must do on the air anyone and everyone can or could know who you are. It's not just FCC that hosts that info. Radio reference is a good example. It's public info at that point. Same as your IP address.

 

[woojos]

I was looking at the website for the Hamvention they do in Dayton every year.

It looked like DHS was offering training for licensed guys in setting up and maintaining a back up comms link if something really serious happened.

I thought it sounded pretty neat. I wish I had some more time to play around.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Hairball]

Here is the link for more info

Emergency Radio.org

 

[Tactical]

GF14, my friend I appreciate everything you post on Como ( old here also)

 

[woojos]

There are ways of sending a massage w/o ever saying a word or using CW. We have had events/training were we try to jam our selfs locally, and found many different ways to get the message thru.

I'm interested in this too.

Also, is it true that transmitting encrypted data is illegal?

 

[BullyDog]

Lol, the things, like I talk about (or type) around here. Hell, that's why I signed up was to make friends and talk. If I didn't want to I would have just kept reading the Hide as a non-member. I've had the internet cents 1996 and as far as I can remember back, I've been reading the Hide. You will be surprised at the things you can find out that other wise you wouldn't know, by playing around with HAM radio. They even have HAM radio operator gatherings I think. When the SHTF around the world, it will be the HAM(Como) guys that save your asses! Its good to know a few and how to operate one yourself. Good Stuff

What does one talk about on these radios?

I messed with CBs years ago to find out where my buddy's were and what not. Enjoyed that and had a small interest in bigger radios but don't know anyone into it. I learn better from seeing and doing so it's pretty intimidating to jump in.

Ryan

 

[BullyDog]

Now fellows, if we have a big ass EMP from the sun or nuke, then I hope ya'll have a back up radio, so it want short circuit it........

 

[match-grade]

Glad to see the interest.

qrz.com and eham.com have lots of good info for getting started. Most cities or counties have clubs. They are usually a friendly bunch and always looking for new members. Like anything else, you can run into a lot of "know-it-alls." Just stay away from them.

There are many aspects to ham radio. Folks get into it for just general small talk, emergency communication, learning more about electronics, etc... Lots of sub groups.

As for encrypted type communication, you can't really think like that for ham radio. All comms must be out in the open. Basically what that means is no secret squirrel codes between parties. A lot of hams frown on 10-codes. I personally don't care. But if you try to use ham radio to circumvent the law, you will get found. Lot's of ears on the air. Just learn the usage of different types of antennas and transmission modes to get the most out of it. THEN when you have to really use radio for an emergency, you will know what you need to know.

Some of the things that are good to know:

How much power does it take to communicate X number of miles?

At this time of day, which frequency/band is best for communicating short vs. long distance?

What is the best antenna to talk to a wide geographic dispersion of people?

What is the best antenna to talk to one person and keep it that way?

Voice mode is broken up, which digital mode works better (morse code, PSK31, WSPR, blah blah blah)

Lots of what I consider really neat stuff to work though. Hell, you don't even have to leave your home to play radio! But you can if you want. I take a small walkie talkie with me when I camp or hike. Most times when I travel, I carry an all in one radio (Yaesu FT-817) that is capable of world wide communication that weighs just a few pounds with an external antenna.

There are orbiting satellites that carry "repeaters" on them that will allow huge areas of communications for about 15 minutes several times a day. (they are not stationary over one area) All you need is about 5 watts of power on a walkie talkie and a very cheap directional antenna. You can communicate with the International Space Station as well!

One area that I am getting into is called Summits On The Air (SOTA). You go up on a peak, set up a radio, and after 4 contacts (very easy) you earn points! These points will let you be awarded small trophies and such (no money). People who talk to the summit climbers are also awarded points for awards as well.

As I said, there are all sorts of aspects to ham radio. And it is very easy to start. The questions are all posted online. The Technician Class for beginning is a good way to learn a little electronic theory. A lot of the questions cover general operating procedures and rules. Both are mostly common sense stuff about not coming off like a jerk off and the like. General and Extra class are a little more challenging, but obviously not impossible.

Also check out ARRL.com. They are the NRA for ham radio. I went to dinner every night with several of officials at Amateur Radio Relay League at the Dayton Hamvention and they are super cool people. I actually work for a ham radio company now called Vibroplex. We produce morse code keys. Starting to sell a lot of other stuff (cable, radios, you name it)

I have been in ham radio since 92 and I feel that it is one of the most rewarding hobbies I have ever had. The aspect about it I like the most: no external infrastructure is needed to talk to your neighbor or some random guy 5000 miles away. The only time you have problems is when the Sun has a huge Coronal Mass Ejection. That tends to ruin the entire RF spectrum for a few hours. (gps, cell phones, you name it). Other than that, there is almost always a band open for short and far communication. As for EMP...that usually accompanies a nuclear detonation, so I would be more concerned about radiation sickness and a few other things first. You radio could possibly work again, but I need to check on that.

 

[verdugo60]

Great, another hobby to take up time and make me spend money! Actually really interesting and could be very important in an emergency.

To you experts: what kind of $ would it take to set up a HAM to communicate with other family members 10-900 miles away? I would enjoy getting trained up but getting my pop's able to run it would be the tough part.

 

[match-grade]

I would say that based on your upper limit of 900 miles (crow flying?) that you will need an High Frequency (HF) radio, Power supply, and an antenna/coax.

I'm going to give you new prices here on what I believe is the least expensive new equipment that you can buy:

Radio : Alinco DX-SR8T, $520 free shipping ( ALINCO DX-SR8T | 100W 160-10M HF TCVR 13.8V) Good radio, probably best on the market for the price. Covers all the HF bands with 100 watts which will give you local and world wide coverage.

Power supply : SAMLEX SEC-1223 $115 free shipping from ( SAMLEX SEC-1223 | 110V TO 13.8V 23A SWITCHING SUPPLY ) I had one of these. Lots of clean dc power. Quiet and reliable.

Antenna : Home brew this thing. You can make tons of different types of kick ass antennas for a $50 dollar roll of 14 gage copper wire from Home Depot. Dipoles rule and are the best for starting out.

Coax : this stuff runs the gamut. I recommend the best you can afford. I work for vibroplex (vibroplex.com) and we sell THE BEST consumer grade coax on the market. It is made and imported from Germany. We sell the connectors to it too. Figure good coax runs about 1 to 1.5 dollars a foot. But, you use cheap lossy coax, you will be losing a lot of your transmitted and received signal.

Antenna tuner : I recommend this one. $130 ( MFJ MFJ-941E | 300 W. 1.8-30MHZ TUNER W/BALUN ) It has a lot of features that you most likely will not use at first but will gain you huge benefits as you learn more about ham radio. With out getting too technical, an antenna is generally useful for one, maybe two bands without having to cut or add more wire to it to talk on a third band. Because of the way radio waves propagate though our sky, different times of the day require different bands for talking to the same location (bands and frequencies are a related term, but don't necessarily mean the same thing). So in order to use the same antenna across the broad range of HF bands / frequencies, you need to have an antenna tuner between the antenna and the radio in order to fool the radio into thinking the antenna is "matched" electrically to the radio. It's a bit more complicated than that, but this is the easiest way I can think to put it.

So now you have a total ham station for just a bit over 900 bucks. ( figure 100 feet of coax) And this is ALL NEW STUFF!! You can really save some money if you are prudent and buy some of it used. Power supplies and antenna tuners show up on ebay for some really good deals. The basic technology does not really change, so buying older is not going to hurt. Antennas can be dirt cheap if you build them yourself. I highly recommend new coax. It does breakdown over time, and you never know what puddle of gasoline used coax was laying in.

What about a used radio? Be careful is my best advice for that. If you don't know much about electronics and you want to save some cash and buy used, make damn sure you bring someone who knows radios with you. I don't mean some dude who had a CB years ago either. Find someone who really understands what is going on. I would also recommend staying with something no older than mid to late 90's. Lots of changes in technology since then. If you can afford to go new then do that. As for used prices, they are all over the place. I have seen 15 year old radios SELL for what the new ones cost now. I don't get it. Just be patient. Ebay is a bad place to buy used. Prices of used radios there are way over inflated. But the suckers keep shelling out the cash... Go to various ham radio store websites and get acquainted to the prices for new radios and equipment and you will have an idea of where to start.

Oh and a big thing for me... if the radio looks abused on the outside, it's probably the same for the inside. Good owners will normally keep all the manual and accessories and such. May not always keep the boxes because they can be pretty heavy. And I would NEVER buy from someone who smokes or dips / chews. I don't have personal problem with the habit as I used to do it all, but it makes for some nasty radios. The smell of smoke will never leave that radio and when it warms up, that's all you will smell.

Just find and talk to local hams. Most of us are hoarders of this stuff and have tons of it that need to be sold so we can by new stuff, haha. They can hook you up with some good deals.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

If you don't know how to fix electronics, I don't recommend getting anything used. You can seriously hurt yourself. Opening a radio needs to be done with a bit of knowledge. Some of the caps inside can cause serious injury.

 

[ricklaut]

I attended my first field day today, and had the opportunity to use HF for the first time. As a technician (licensed only for a little over a month), I didn't really have the urge to work HF... until today. It's a bit like crack - talking from NV to Florida without repeaters was really, really cool and something 2m / 440 will never offer without an assist from the internet. I see this costing more money in the near future. I'd better start studying...

 

[verdugo60]

Thanks Match-Grade, really good info here.