Range Report Shot groups off bipod..???

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Hey guys, i shot these 5-5 shot groups today with a Rem 700 5R Milspec.... the rifle is 100% factory shooting off a harris bipod with reloads..... not really sure how i feel bout these groups, what are your thoughts/opinions ????

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Factory ammo? Doesnt look terrible at all. Try a different ammo and see how it does.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Factory ammo? Doesnt look terrible at all. Try a different ammo and see how it does.

Its reloads...."close to the node" but needs fine tuned..... low right was off hard serface and the other 4 were with feet in soft surface....

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

The surface your feet are on wouldn't make a difference unless you're using your toes to load the bipod. That can be done without using your feet.

How's your fundamentals?

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

I meant feet of the bipod, not my feet.... im not sure if i buy into the whole load the bipod idea anyway..... as far as fundamentals, hmm, i would say better than average ?

 

[ShtrRdy]

Try to work on the supported prone position to where the precision, ( group size ), approaches what you can do off the bench.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Try to work on the supported prone position to where the precision, ( group size ), approaches what you can do off the bench.

Will do..... im hoping to use this in my first few PRS matches....

 

[Brent B]

#1 and #5 look very good (are they approx. 2/3 MOA?). how long did you wait between groups?

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Yes sir, between .5 & .7 MOA... my caliper batteries are dead and it doesnt have a scale on bar so couldnt measure exact size...... i waited bout 5 minutes between groups...

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

That will win a match. Recommend you do dot drills weekly. 10 dots on a sheet of paper. Get down and fire 1 shot at 1 dot. Get up, walk away, then come back, get down and fire 1 shot at the next dot. So on for 10 rds. Call your shot every time and use your POI to do some self assessment of MMS fundamentals.

I will do just that, im also gonna work on my load development more too...

 

[ChaseCO]

Listen to Reubenski.

That will win a match. Recommend you do dot drills weekly. 10 dots on a sheet of paper. Get down and fire 1 shot at 1 dot. Get up, walk away, then come back, get down and fire 1 shot at the next dot. So on for 10 rds. Call your shot every time and use your POI to do some self assessment of MMS fundamentals.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Listen to Reubenski.

Definately

 

[84Orwell]

I find that shooting a bipod of a hard surface is very critical of my body alignment. When I follow through after the shot breaks, and my sight picture is lost because the rifle jumps, I find that the shot will be out of the group- If I am well aligned behind the rifle and there is no hop, I find the shot will be more well placed- I can call the shot in both cases and the call seems to match the placement- just my 2cents for what it is worth-

 

[Rocketvapor]

and my 2 cents will make 4. Almost a nickel
The fliers in 2 and3 look like cheeking.
Pretty good, and I'm sure it will get better.

 

[Trappnp]

Frank just discussed dot drills on the newest pod cast.

 

[wildcats]

Its reloads...."close to the node" but needs fine tuned..... low right was off hard serface and the other 4 were with feet in soft surface....

Caliber,bullets brass, powder/charges, and components used?

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

and my 2 cents will make 4. Almost a nickel
The fliers in 2 and3 look like cheeking.
Pretty good, and I'm sure it will get better.

Cheaking?

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Caliber,bullets brass, powder/charges, and components used?

308 168gr SMK
Lapua brass- neck sized
44.8 of Varget
BR2 primers
.....most likely is my ocw but needs confirmed, had issues with bipod

 

[Rocketvapor]

If you get a little jump from the bipod, cheek pressure will toss high and right (right handed).

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

If you get a little jump from the bipod, cheek pressure will toss high and right (right handed).

Ahhh, roger that!

 

[wildcats]

308 168gr SMK
Lapua brass- neck sized
44.8 of Varget
BR2 primers
.....most likely is my ocw but needs confirmed, had issues with bipod

just my 2 cents
Try backing up those loads to say, 41.0 grn and work your way up.2 grn increments

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

just my 2 cents
Try backing up those loads to say, 41.0 grn and work your way up.

Why so low?

 

[wildcats]

Why so low?

Better to start low and let the rifle dictate what it likes...it's not a dragrace.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Better to start low and let the rifle dictate what it likes...it's not a dragrace.

43.9-45.7...in .2 grain increments is what got me to 44.8.... id like to keep my velocity at least 2,600 or better....but ill try lower...

 

[Rocketvapor]

41.0 to 44.8 by .2 is a lot of steps
What's book min/max for this?

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

41.0 to 44.8 by .2 is a lot of steps
What's book min/max for this?

46 is max....

 

[Rocketvapor]

I know.
With the groups you posted do you think some of that was shooter/setup/bipod/etc?
I find it hard to pick a load when I'm causing the majority of the errors.
I mentioned the cheeking as that's one of problems I have.
I'll lose concentration get down on the butt, and boom, a flier.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

I know.
With the groups you posted do you think some of that was shooter/setup/bipod/etc?
I find it hard to pick a load when I'm causing the majority of the errors.
I mentioned the cheeking as that's one of problems I have.
I'll lose concentration get down on the butt, and boom, a flier.

Im the same way..lol... the groups i posted are all 1 charge weight...44.8...

 

[wildcats]

46 is max....

Yes,46.0 is max,back off 10%,puts at 41.5. start there and work your way up.
I believe Sierra calls for 44.6 max load.
again my 2 cents.

 

[schmi015]

Try some FGMM as a comparison. Also are you using a rear squeeze bag?

 

[Kickin45]

Go buy a box of Fed 168 & 175 smk.
See how those shoot and that’ll tell you what your rifle likes. If you can get near 1/2 moa with factory ammo, a ton of your loadwork is done. You know about where to start.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Try some FGMM as a comparison. Also are you using a rear squeeze bag?

I do use a rear bag, the bullet i use is what FGMM uses and i beleive the powder, primer & brass is far superior to the factory FGMM...... all my 308's seem to love 43-46 gr charges & its good for velocity and groups..... do you do your charge weight testing with 3 round or 5 round groups? Do you look for group size or nodes in velocity?

 

[TheGerman]

Looks fine. Keep practicing.

Your POA slightly varies between groups if you look at where the center in the groups is; watch your head position to fix this.

If your velocity is where you want and the ES/SD is low I'd try to mess with seating depth a little and truck on from there. It's not going to get much better but you can waste a ton of time and ammo trying to prove that the hard way.

 

[ChaseCO]

Not to highjack the thread, but you might find this valuable since you asked about it. I do my charge weight testing in 3 shot groups. Used to do 5 routinely but not anymore.

First thing I do is shoot one round of each charge weight over my magnetospeed to identify velocity nodes.

Then, within those nodes, I load up 6 rounds of each charge weight and shoot it pretty much exactly like this. http://www.texasprc.club/preidloaddev/

If I have a clear winner then ok, that settles it. But usually I’ll have 2, maybe 3 loads that look pretty much the same at 100.

Then I stretch it out to 300 (or 500 if there’s no wind) and have a shoot off. Easier to see discrepancies at distance. This is where sometimes I’ll shoot a 5 shot group, but usually not. I’ll shoot 3 groups of each charge weight. Best 2/3 wins. If there’s no winner then I go with the one with the highest velocity. Usually I end up with a load with an ES in the teens, that shoots somewhere between 1/4-1/2 MOA at distance (seems like holding 1/4-1/3 MOA at distance is my personal limit off a bipod...1/4 MOA is F’ing hard), and is stable by 0.1-0.2gr on either side of the charge weight. I.e. say the load I end up at is 41gr. Typically when shot over the chrono it changes less than 10fps from 39.8-41.2gr.

I then true my velocity at 500 and stretch her out.

 

[schmi015]

I will load up 10 rounds initially and just test for velocity so in your case I'd start at 43.3, 43.6, 43.9, 44.1, 44.4, 44.7, 45, 45.3, 45.6, 45.9. My last load development I did was for a .338 lap pushing 285's and I had pretty good starting point since I took apart a factory hornday round. So what I did after firing these 10 was to look and see where i had a velocity plateau. Towards the end i was starting to get some signs of pressure on primers and sticky bolt but my sweet spot was at 91.6 grains so i went back and loaded 10 more at the same length and 91.6 grains i got sub half moa results and a std dev of 5fps. So at that point my load development was complete.

91.2 2771
91.4 2804
91.6 2805
91.8 2804
92 2808
92.2 2815
92.4 2821
92.6 2831
92.8 2841
93 2853

 

[ChaseCO]

Another thing you can do after you true velocity at 500 is stretch it out to 800 and true your BC. I haven’t done this yet since the BCs from Berger and Hornady have been really close for me out to 1000, but I probably will from here on out to make things even more precise.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

I will load up 10 rounds initially and just test for velocity so in your case I'd start at 43.3, 43.6, 43.9, 44.1, 44.4, 44.7, 45, 45.3, 45.6, 45.9. My last load development I did was for a .338 lap pushing 285's and I had pretty good starting point since I took apart a factory hornday round. So what I did after firing these 10 was to look and see where i had a velocity plateau. Towards the end i was starting to get some signs of pressure on primers and sticky bolt but my sweet spot was at 91.6 grains so i went back and loaded 10 more at the same length and 91.6 grains i got sub half moa results and a std dev of 5fps. So at that point my load development was complete.

91.2 2771
91.4 2804
91.6 2805
91.8 2804
92 2808
92.2 2815
92.4 2821
92.6 2831
92.8 2841
93 2853

Great info, im working with both. I was gonna try 90ish-92ish

 

[anotherwannabe]

Photo not being totally squared up makes it a little goofy, but 9 ring is .9375 on 100 yard IBS. Can't argue with <= .5 on group 5... .717MOA avg for whole target and less than .25 offset horizontal and vertical both when averaging all 5 groups so you're zero'd up nicely

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

Photo not being totally squared up makes it a little goofy, but 9 ring is .9375 on 100 yard IBS. Can't argue with <= .5 on group 5... .717MOA avg for whole target and less than .25 offset horizontal and vertical both when averaging all 5 groups so you're zero'd up nicely

Wow, thats pretty damn cool how you anylized and broke down the data from these groups!

 

[anotherwannabe]

"OnTarget Precision" its not the worlds most elegant software but it works and its cheap. You can learn all sorts of things that make you ashamed of your shooting if you start tracking -all- the groups

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

"OnTarget Precision" its not the worlds most elegant software but it works and its cheap. You can learn all sorts of things that make you ashamed of your shooting if you start tracking -all- the groups

Lol ??

 

[308pirate]

I thought you were an ELR genius? Should be cornholing those targets bro

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

I thought you were an ELR genius? Should be cornholing those targets bro

Never claimed to be any kind of shooter, especially elr....but it isnt rocket science. However i truly aspire to be half as good as you that way i can be the 2nd best thing that ever happened to the shooting world......

 

[RTH1800]

If you had some bench groups to compare with your bipod groups it could add some information to evaluate your position shooting. ie. if the bench groups are just like these your set up might not be up to your potential. If they are .2 moa the difference is your position error.
Good shooting either way.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

If you had some bench groups to compare with your bipod groups it could add some information to evaluate your position shooting. ie. if the bench groups are just like these your set up might not be up to your potential. If they are .2 moa the difference is your position error.
Good shooting either way.

Good point ??

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

I'm surprised there was only one mention of testing seating depths to tighten up groups once you found a velocity node.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

I'm surprised there was only one mention of testing seating depths to tighten up groups once you found a velocity node.

Yea, i have it seated to mag length....honestly the load development could probably be better, i rushed it and just figured it would work....i have more setup to retest as soon as weather gets better...

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

Yea, i have it seated to mag length....honestly the load development could probably be better, i rushed it and just figured it would work....i have more setup to retest as soon as weather gets better...

There are several posts on seating depth testing and references to a bullet manufacturer suggesting that a sweet spot (node) can be established. One other point of interest was that they recommend testing as far out off the lands as 0.150". I'm going to put it to the test with LD for my RPR.

 

[KOPFJÄGER13]

There are several posts on seating depth testing and references to a bullet manufacturer suggesting that a sweet spot (node) can be established. One other point of interest was that they recommend testing as far out off the lands as 0.150". I'm going to put it to the test with LD for my RPR.

Im definately looking forward to working more with this bullet combination, i feel like the platform and round could do a bit better if i handle my end , but ya never know

 

[XLR308]

Just a suggestion that may make a difference and my preferred method when using the exact same targets.
I prefer to dial my elevation up so my impacts are in the box and my concentration is focused on the center dot when breaking the shot with no obstructions or distractions from previous shots.
This is solely for load development accuracy testing, after done with that use the dot for single shots.
In my SPS varmint using near identical components I found 44 grains of Varget to be the sweet spot but it was a long ass way from the lands and well short of magazine length in AI mags.