Rifle Scopes  SHOT Show 2021 Rumor Mill and What's Coming

Glassaholic

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    UPDATE 01/14/2021: Kahles has announced new updates to the K525i called the DLR. Some minor updates but more significant are greater FOV and 10 mil per turn turrets.

    UPDATE 01/14/2021: It's no longer a rumor, the Nightforce ATACR 4-20x50 is now the real deal, details:

    UPDATE 01/14/2021: Brownell's is hosting a NOT Show event Jan 18-22 apparently in lieu of SHOT Show being cancelled for 2021 - https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/bap...=Avantlink&utm_content=NA&utm_campaign=Itwine

    UPDATE 01/12/2021: Rumor has it a new crossover scope is coming, decent mag range but more importantly LIGHT WEIGHT, better mag range than LRHS2, lighter and shorter with a nice reticle. Coming this spring.

    UPDATE: Leupold has announced new scopes and reticles, details:

    Maybe it's a bit too early but I'm getting the itch to try something new. Since SHOT cancelled for 2021 and since the Hide usually has some insiders that let some things slip, any news on new optics coming up for 2021?

    I'm really looking forward to the new March 4.5-28x52 High Master, production units are supposed to ship end of January and be on shelves by around mid February, this scope was first seen at SHOT 2020 with a few reticles but my favorite is the one @koshkin designed which is called the FML-TR1, brilliant design. Scope has gone through a few pre-production iterations so I'm anxious to see how the final version plays out.

    That is the only new scope that I know is coming, so hopefully some of you will have a little better insight.

    Until then, I'll start some thoughts on what I'd like to see coming from some manufacturers:

    • ZCO offers Gen 3XR reticle in their existing scopes (Jeff, Nick... please, I'm begging you ;)). Well okay, TT owns the Gen 3XR, but give us something with a larger center dot and dots in the Christmas tree instead of thick lines.
    • ZCO ZC316 - a 3.2-16x50 FFP scope with 30mm tube and under 27oz with daylight bright illumination (be kinda nice to have something a little different from the traditional 3-15 without getting too crazy, this would be ZCO's version of a Light Tactical)
    • ZCO ZC212 - a 2-12x42 FFP scope with fantastic mrad reticle with larger outer circle and unobscured wind holds off main horizontal stadia, under 23oz with daylight bright illumination
    • ZCO ZC18 - a 1-8x24 FFP scope with fantastic mrad reticle with larger outer circle and unobscured wind holds off main horizontal stadia, under 20oz with daylight bright illumination
    • Vortex AMG 4-20x50 scope with 30mm tube and under 26oz (been asking for this ever since they came out with the 6-24). We know the AMG team has been back at it, but what will these brilliant optical minds think up for the next AMG scope, hope it's amazing.
    • Vortex Razor Gen III long range scopes to replace 4.5-27 and 3-18 that don't weigh 3lbs
    • Vortex Razor Gen III 3-18x44 Ultra Light FFP Scope, under 25oz
    • Minox ZP5 4-20x58 FFP low light monster with MR4 reticle (but larger center dot)- Blaser already makes this scope but let's be honest, the reticle sucks and they limit the turret to only 8 mrad. Since Minox is a sister company it shouldn't be too difficult to take the same optical design, put in the MR4 reticle and use the ZP5 turrets or similar.
    • March 3.2-20x56 FFP scope with 25° WA eyepiece, doesn't have to be so short, but if kept under 30oz could become a crossover king! Using similar design principles as the 4.5-28x52 HM, with a 6.22 erector this scope would be specifically geared to the crossover community with the huge 56mm objective and locking turrets like the 5-42x56 HM. Longer scope body design with forgiving eyebox and parallax and a new reticle that has larger outer circle similar to Bushnell LRHS G2H design for use at low magnification.
    • Leupold finally comes out with a decent competition Christmas tree reticle like the Gen 3XR (come on Leupold, if Nightforce can come out with the Mil-XT certainly you can figure something out)
    • Leupold decides to stop charging over $500 for illumination
    • Burris XTR III Illuminated Models finally come to life with thicker SCR2 reticle options
    • Schmidt & Bender PM III series where they finally remove the illumination tumor and put it in line with the parallax like almost everyone else.
    • Schmidt & Bender PM III 5-30x56 to replace the venerable 5-25x56, scope does not tunnel and has wide FOV with superb edge to edge sharpness
    • Nightforce ATACR II - further improvement on IQ, wider FOV, lighter scopes
    • Bushnell LRHS/LRTS series scopes were hidden gems for those seeking stellar IQ at an affordable price. Would like to see some new designs with 5x erector, a 4-20x44 would be an interesting replacement for the 4.5-18x44, would also like to see a newer version of the G2H reticle, maybe a G3H or better, the G3 almost got there but not quite, could use a few more .2 mil hash points.
    • Bushnell should finally introduce illumination to the DMR II PRO, but would also like to see a rework of the DMR II - a DMR III would have "PRO" glass, illumination, but re-designed optical formula that improves FOV throughout the magnification range, maybe even a bit of a diet as these 35oz beasts are a bit heavy for a lot of DMR type builds which they were designed for.
     
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    beetroot

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    I 100% agree with everything on your list.

    I'd love to see some FFP scopes in the 2ish-14ish range. Something with a reticle fit for purpose usable on low mag and high mag, sometimes like the EBR-9.

    More lighter tactical scopes in the 3ish-22ish zoom range with 44mm or 50mm objectives. Again with reticles sized for the lower mag range.

    The illuminated XTR3 is most what I want to see. Then if the reviews are positive I'll buy a 3.3-18 SCR2.
     

    erwos

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    Sig is releasing new Tango6Ts with new reticles, including the US Army Direct View Optic. They stealth announced them in the press release, and I've seen them in some online catalogs.
     
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    bobke

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    Interested to see how Bushnell will improve on LRHS/LRTS, with updated reticles, preferably using some form of center dot or slightly finer crosshairs per DMRII Pro. Reps have indicated something is coming and would like to see details, as I had a hard time believing one of the best ‘values’ in their lineup was discontinued for weak sales numbers. Give it up, gentlemen.
     

    Birddog6424

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    Good post. That would be some great stuff.

    I'm reaching out to one of the high mucky mucks at Burris today to see if there are any updates to illuminated XTR3s.
     
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    Interested to see how Bushnell will improve on LRHS/LRTS, with updated reticles, preferably using some form of center dot or slightly finer crosshairs per DMRII Pro. Reps have indicated something is coming and would like to see details, as I had a hard time believing one of the best ‘values’ in their lineup was discontinued for weak sales numbers. Give it up, gentlemen.
    Not letting the cat out of the bag yet. I'm confident people will be happy with the new Elite Tactical though.
     

    Glassaholic

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    Interested to see how Bushnell will improve on LRHS/LRTS, with updated reticles, preferably using some form of center dot or slightly finer crosshairs per DMRII Pro. Reps have indicated something is coming and would like to see details, as I had a hard time believing one of the best ‘values’ in their lineup was discontinued for weak sales numbers. Give it up, gentlemen.
    Excellent point, completely forgot about Bushnell. The LRHS/LRTS line struggled at $1200ish but sold like hotcakes when GAP had their "deal" and also CameralandNY with their "deal". I think it was hard for many to stomach paying over $1k for a 4x optic when everyone else seemed to be going with 5x designs, but those who knew the IQ of the LRHS/LRTS realized this was a diamond in the rough. If Bushnell would come out with a new LOW design that has a 5x erector, keeps the weight down and keeps the price down, that could be gold.
     

    lowlight

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    Really instead of the 2-12, or 3-16x, etc,

    We should be looking at 8-32, 8-40, again.

    Nobody uses the low end in a precision rifle anymore, 8x has pretty much become the perfect low-end location, this way the values we use are not on the fringes and will work better within the useable range of the optic

    If want to play in the 3x area, use a backup or clip-on like a modified Acog, and honestly, that would just be the military and LE, nobody using these styles of scopes needs 3x anymore
     

    gr8fuldoug

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    Sorry to be a party pooper, just a heads up, or a sharing of a thought.

    Due to Covid most brands are having a very significant problem with back ordered product. Just staying on top of current offerings is near impossible for most of them. Some orders that we are placing now we are hearing from 4 to 25 weeks before we will see these products.

    Yes, there will be announcements of new products, 100% they will be announced. When these new items will be delivered will be interesting to see.

    I share everyone's excitement on what's coming in 2021, however, please keep in mind that because it is announced doesn't mean it will arrive quickly.
     

    blbennett1288

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    Not a rifle scope per say, maybe the thread should be moved to equipment, but I’d like to see a optic mounted LRF in the $2000-$2500 retail ballpark
     

    NateSavannah

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    Id like to see more scopes offered w/ dual plane like the pmii dual cc. Love the concept. feel like it could be improved upon and be something Id like alot.
    Id also like to see a smaller lvpo type offering from zco. and maybe they could do something with dual planes. and id be really really happy.
    thats it. my 2 cents.
     

    erwos

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    Not letting the cat out of the bag yet. I'm confident people will be happy with the new Elite Tactical though.
    As long as you guys are gonna finally release a successor to the SMRS LPVO line, I'll be happy. There were some cool ideas in those scopes, but they really were not competitive with the newest generation of LPVOs from Vortex, Sig, Trijicon, etc.
     

    srt-4_uk

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    I share everyone's excitement on what's coming in 2021, however, please keep in mind that because it is announced doesn't mean it will arrive quickly.
    That's every year, Covid or not. Still waiting for the Ultimatum Deuce/Deadline, new Leupold reticle, KRG 10/22 Bravo stock, ect, ect.
     
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    NateSavannah

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    That's every year, Covid or not. Still waiting for the Ultimatum Deuce/Deadline, new Leupold reticle, KRG 10/22 Bravo stock, ect, ect.
    Alot of times shot seems like those car shows where manufacturers show us shit like the ford bronco 15 years in a row without ever actually releasing it. and than when they do its nothing like all the badass versions they showed us at the car shows.
    or maybe thats just the ford bronco. 🤷‍♂️
     

    Glassaholic

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    Really instead of the 2-12, or 3-16x, etc,

    We should be looking at 8-32, 8-40, again.

    I really wouldn't want an 8-32 on my SPR, but a 2-12 would be really nice - different designs for different needs. That being said, I think an 8-32 done well that was in the $1k ballpark could really draw in some shooters who can't afford the more expensive glass but still get really decent IQ at a lower price point. Over the past few years seems like we've gotten a lot at the $1500-$2000 price point but not many focusing on really good IQ at the $1k point, a quality 4x scope with higher magnification has the potential.
     

    Burdy

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    Until then, I'll start some thoughts on what I'd like to see coming from some manufacturers:


    • ZCO ZC18 - a 1-8x24 FFP scope with fantastic mrad reticle with larger outer circle and unobscured wind holds off main horizontal stadia, under 20oz with daylight bright illumination

    This. With the fatal funnel.
     

    beetroot

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    If want to play in the 3x area, use a backup or clip-on like a modified Acog, and honestly, that would just be the military and LE, nobody using these styles of scopes needs 3x anymore

    Unfortunately some of us live in communist countries that have recently banned scary black rifles.
    Where LVPOs and ACOGs were once in abundance the tenancy is now towards bolt guns with lower mag scopes but not a LVPO.
    I know where I live 2-10/2-12 scopes are becoming increasingly with hunters who still like a more "tactical" orientated scope.

    I don't think the world wide market would be huge and understand why manufactures aren't making them but it's on my wish list.
     

    Birddog6424

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    Sorry to be a party pooper, just a heads up, or a sharing of a thought.

    Due to Covid most brands are having a very significant problem with back ordered product. Just staying on top of current offerings is near impossible for most of them. Some orders that we are placing now we are hearing from 4 to 25 weeks before we will see these products.

    Yes, there will be announcements of new products, 100% they will be announced. When these new items will be delivered will be interesting to see.

    I share everyone's excitement on what's coming in 2021, however, please keep in mind that because it is announced doesn't mean it will arrive quickly.

    I heard some of that in my conversation today. Its hard to produce product on a skeleton crew..

    IT and customer service can work from home, but when you start losing your shop people it slows everything down.
     

    lowlight

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    Hunting is not the same,

    An SPR shooting inside 500 is not the same,

    You guys want to apply rules to things outside the box, this is my issue with the internet, especially lately, there is always a subset of people who want to go to the edges or extremes to make their point.

    We all know the context of SH Is, we know how the majority of rifles talked about here are employed, when we start moving away for those positions we usually clarify those things.

    The majority are using 5x 6x to SOMETHING BIGGER, 25x, 30x, 35x, 45x... that is the direction the PRECISION RIFLE SHOOTERS are trending towards. So wanting a 3-12x for your cross over is not the same thing.

    To say, we like the lower power variables as a cross over to other disciplines, okay I get you, but please stop with the BUTs, or the constant moving or blurring of the lines. It's getting old...

    If you want to be more accurate break it down

    scout rifle/AR - 2-12x

    hunting 1-10x

    precision rifle 8x-42x

    etc
     

    NoLegs24

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    Hunting is not the same,

    An SPR shooting inside 500 is not the same,

    You guys want to apply rules to things outside the box, this is my issue with the internet, especially lately, there is always a subset of people who want to go to the edges or extremes to make their point.

    We all know the context of SH Is, we know how the majority of rifles talked about here are employed, when we start moving away for those positions we usually clarify those things.

    The majority are using 5x 6x to SOMETHING BIGGER, 25x, 30x, 35x, 45x... that is the direction the PRECISION RIFLE SHOOTERS are trending towards. So wanting a 3-12x for your cross over is not the same thing.

    To say, we like the lower power variables as a cross over to other disciplines, okay I get you, but please stop with the BUTs, or the constant moving or blurring of the lines. It's getting old...

    If you want to be more accurate break it down

    scout rifle/AR - 2-12x

    hunting 1-10x

    precision rifle 8x-42x

    etc

    This time a year, when SHOT is around the corner, people will always want S* that they’re never going to buy.
    It came with 5 out of the 7 checked boxes on my list, I’ll wait another year till all 7 get checked off...
     

    Birddog6424

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    The official response from Burris on the illuminated XTR3 is that it is "actively being developed". They are working on getting it out.

    In lieu of Shot Show this year Burris will issue press releases that showcase 2021 products.

    I'm also hoping they have decided which route they would like to take in the LPVO market. A 1-8, or even better yet, a 1-10x28 XTR3 would be the bomb.
     

    efl15

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    Will there be a "Gen 2" Cronus BTR from Athlon coming soon? It's my understanding the current models have been discontinued.
     

    samb300

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    No rumor, I just keep asking @gebhardt02 for a “new” MPCT3 with a funnel-delete, regular vertical stadia (at least going up 4 to 5 mils), and if I’m dreaming a 0.05 mil center dot.

    I’m holding out on my first ZCO until spring of 2021 in hopes this becomes a reality, otherwise I will have to decide on MPCT2 vs 3. Leaning toward the MPCT3.
     

    erwos

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    I'm also hoping they have decided which route they would like to take in the LPVO market. A 1-8, or even better yet, a 1-10x28 XTR3 would be the bomb.
    An XTR III 1-8x FFP LPVO with daylight bright illumination that came in at $1400-$1500 (or less!) would be a big seller, especially if the reticle didn't suck and it had adjustable parallax. I think people are looking for that next step up from the Razor Gen 2-E, but maybe not willing to go all the way to Gen 3 pricing.

    Frankly, if it doesn't have daylight bright illumination, I would not even bother bringing the LPVO to market. I think Burris knows this, but I was really disappointed in the brief run of the RT-8.
     
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    blbennett1288

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    An XTR III 1-8x FFP LPVO with daylight bright illumination that came in at $1400-$1500 (or less!) would be a big seller, especially if the reticle didn't suck and it had adjustable parallax. I think people are looking for that next step up from the Razor Gen 2-E, but maybe not willing to go all the way to Gen 3 pricing.

    Frankly, if it doesn't have daylight bright illumination, I would not even bother bringing the LPVO to market. I think Burris knows this, but I was really disappointed in the brief run of the RT-8.
    Yea please, parallax adjustment
     

    Birddog6424

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    An XTR III 1-8x FFP LPVO with daylight bright illumination that came in at $1400-$1500 (or less!) would be a big seller, especially if the reticle didn't suck and it had adjustable parallax. I think people are looking for that next step up from the Razor Gen 2-E, but maybe not willing to go all the way to Gen 3 pricing.

    Frankly, if it doesn't have daylight bright illumination, I would not even bother bringing the LPVO to market. I think Burris knows this, but I was really disappointed in the brief run of the RT-8.

    I'm pretty sure that the folks at Burris were disappointed with that optic as well.

    Its just my humble opinion that they dropped that optic rather than push it through so they could pursue something else. They discontinued the 8x XTR2 and now they have a clean slate to bring a new lineup of LPVOs to market. I would think an XTR3 would have to be a part of that.
     

    Glassaholic

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    Bring back the death donut from the bushnell lrhs design. Also Make Accuracy Great Again!!!
    An XTR III 1-8x FFP LPVO with daylight bright illumination that came in at $1400-$1500 (or less!) would be a big seller, especially if the reticle didn't suck ...
    italics mine
    I find this to be an issue with a lot of LPVO's, quite a few pop up but end up with reticles that leave me scratching my head, I realize there are many different needs from many groups, but an R&D group worth a grain of salt should be able to figure out a nice moa reticle, mrad reticle and BDC reticles. Sometimes I wonder what box they keep them secluded in.
     

    koshkin

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    Interesting discussion.

    Precision world is definitely coalescing around designs that top out in the 30x to 40x range and there is a good reason for it as long as you go below 10x on the low end.

    Unfortunately, while very few people use these scopes below 7x or 8x, high erector ratios look very good for marketing, so companies keep investing into them. I would really like to see more development with 4x or 5x erector ratio scopes focusing on large adjustment range, wide FOV, and excellent image quality.

    I am talking to a manufacturer about potentially making a long range / ELR scope that is something like 10-50x60 with 40mrad of adjustment range and reasonable price. I think that can do well.

    Where erector ratio makes more difference is with LPVOs and crossover design. For me, go to crossover designs have been scopes like 3-15x50 and 4-20x50, but we are going to see bit more utility there with 6x and 7x erectors and I suspect Steiner will their 2.9-20x50 M7Xi coming to the US shortly.

    I would also like to more focus on smaller objective lighter weight design with similar magnification ranges. If Bushnell reworks the 4.5-18x44 LRHS into a 3-18x44 or something along those lines, they will make a killing. I could have sworn I have seen a 3.5-20x44 Japanese OEM scope somewhere that looked fairly decent. Perhaps we will see some variants of that at some point.

    LPVOs have gotten increasingly competent with designs like Razor Gen3 and ATACR F1 working very well, so now there is going to be a race to see who can bring out the same capability for less money. However, the illumination technology both of those scopes use is still expensive, so there is technical problem there that I have not yet seen solved.

    ILya
     

    nksmfamjp

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    Hunting is not the same,

    An SPR shooting inside 500 is not the same,

    You guys want to apply rules to things outside the box, this is my issue with the internet, especially lately, there is always a subset of people who want to go to the edges or extremes to make their point.

    We all know the context of SH Is, we know how the majority of rifles talked about here are employed, when we start moving away for those positions we usually clarify those things.

    The majority are using 5x 6x to SOMETHING BIGGER, 25x, 30x, 35x, 45x... that is the direction the PRECISION RIFLE SHOOTERS are trending towards. So wanting a 3-12x for your cross over is not the same thing.

    To say, we like the lower power variables as a cross over to other disciplines, okay I get you, but please stop with the BUTs, or the constant moving or blurring of the lines. It's getting old...

    If you want to be more accurate break it down

    scout rifle/AR - 2-12x

    hunting 1-10x

    precision rifle 8x-42x

    etc

    I'm confused and I’m sure I’m getting this all wrong. If the hide is geared towards PRS or heavily protected ”snipers”, ok...I get your 8-42x.

    I listen to your podcast and hear you pushing back on all the prs gamesmanship and race rifles, etc. This post seems to contradict that.

    To handle short range targets I find walking into the hide, don’t I need 5x or lower on the bottom? Also, 42x is great on a clear night for spotting stars, but in the precision rifle world, can I realize that? What is the realistic max effective range...1500 yds. I guess 42x helps, as long as mirage doesn’t make it a mess. I’d rather have a good 30x.

    hunting 1-10x....maybe on grandpa’s’06. Taking long range elk with a 300 PRC or similar makes 5-30x a nice thought.
     

    lowlight

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    You're not very smart that is why

    Variable powers, especially in FFP means you can use any power that suits your needs.

    That said, I tend to think, my 5-45x looks much better than 25x than a 5-25x @25.

    Nobody says yo have to use, what I am explaining is regardless of the scope very few use less than 8x, like ever, even with 3x on the low end you rarely hear speak of it and for me teaching shooting we only discuss the lowest end in the post shot checklist for military and LE to turn their power down so they are moving through a city street under threat on 25x they are better suited moving using the lowest power just in case.

    so in conclusion please don't quote or mention me in this thread, I have zero interest in it
     
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    rnlzkbrs

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    I am talking to a manufacturer about potentially making a long range / ELR scope that is something like 10-50x60 with 40mrad of adjustment range and reasonable price. I think that can do well.
    Definitely this! If only March could take their 8-80x56 scope, put your FML-TR1 reticle on it, put turrets from 5-42x56, and increase the elevation adjustment range to 40mrad that would be a pretty good scope for ELR.

    By the way, what a maximal usable magnification for a scope would be? Is there a chance that we will see 100x or 150x scopes?
     

    Glassaholic

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    I suspect Steiner will their 2.9-20x50 M7Xi coming to the US shortly.

    Thanks for reminding me about this obscure scope that made a vague appearance not long ago. Found this link with specs, looks promising, but looks can be deceiving, we'll have to wait to see once it makes it to the shelves.

     

    THEIS

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    Hi,

    IMO as much as we read about new products coming out for 2021, I do not think many are going to be realistically coming out.

    Manufacturers just do not have much reasoning to release new products (unless they already had them in the production pipeline and are 75% complete) when their current products are selling as fast (actually faster) than they can make them.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    erwos

    Unorganized Militiaman
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 27, 2014
    157
    77
    IMO as much as we read about new products coming out for 2021, I do not think many are going to be realistically coming out.

    Manufacturers just do not have much reasoning to release new products (unless they already had them in the production pipeline and are 75% complete) when their current products are selling as fast (actually faster) than they can make them.
    This is true to some extent, but some companies have huge holes in their product lines. Both Bushnell and Burris have no current production high-end LPVOs. Burris also really needs to get those illuminated XTRIIIs out the door.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,119
    20,346
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    This is true to some extent, but some companies have huge holes in their product lines. Both Bushnell and Burris have no current production high-end LPVOs. Burris also really needs to get those illuminated XTRIIIs out the door.

    Hi,

    But when manufacturers cannot make enough quantity of products that are already in their product line then why would they be concerned at this moment in the industry to "fill a hole".
    Machine Time and Personnel Time are already maxed out at some of these scope companies (They weren't maxed until panic buying started--that is why they had plans for new products) with their current product line.
    So in order to fill a hole some of them would have to bring in more machines and/or more personnel and business 101 says you do neither of those during panic buy market.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     
    Last edited:

    b6graham

    MMPRL
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Jul 29, 2014
    5,079
    4,103
    Boston
    i'm with frank on this.

    8-32, 10-30, 10-40

    i'd take a any of those all day. i rarely ever move from 16x in matches as it is whether thats a 22 or centerfire.
    less expense and less worthless parts of the magnification range
    easier to make a reticle work throughout the mag range
    better image in the 15-25 range where most people typically are

    in a razor gen 3 and amg gen 2 please (weights the same)
     

    Glassaholic

    Send it!
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 30, 2012
    4,708
    3,662
    Black Forest, CO
    I guess 42x helps, as long as mirage doesn’t make it a mess. I’d rather have a good 30x.
    I think this is one of the biggest limitations of high top end magnification - atmospherics can wreck havoc on getting a good sight picture, how many times have we seen that steel plate wobble around, not because of movement on our part but because atmospherics was making it dance. A survey was done (not scientific mind you, just asking shooters in a thread) a few years back and it seemed most PRS shooters would not go above 20x even out past around 800 yards, or more appropriately - especially out past 800 yards, dealing with atmospherics at distance can be a real bear and the sweet spot for most seemed to be around 15-18x magnification. I understand that many exhibit "this scope cuts through mirage" phenomenon with alpha class optics, but the issue doesn't disappear with these scopes, they may simply resolve better in those conditions.

    Many who are new to the sport (PRS/NRL/ELR) think that long range = high magnification, that you need 30x, 40x or more to hit targets at distance but again, atmospherics will be something to contend with that will sometimes force you to reduce magnification. This is exacerbated by the fact that the NF 7-35x56 is one of the most popular scopes on the PRS circuit; however, I would venture to say if asked how many of them use these scopes above 25-30x the majority would probably say no, at least to hit the target - some may go above to "read mirage" to get more accurate wind estimates between rifle and target, more than likely they are choosing the 7-35 because it is an optical improvement over the 5-25 within that "goldilocks" range of magnification. But to think that someone couldn't hit a 1000, 2000, 3000, etc. yard target with a good 5-25 because they didn't have 30x or 40x, etc. I think is disingenuous. The few ELR shooters I know seem to favor the Tangent Theta 5-25, these guys are shooting 2 miles and beyond using Charlie Tarac's, I would venture to say if the NF 7-35 or Schmidt 5-45 really gave them that much of an advantage at distance, wouldn't they be preferring those scopes?