Rifle Scopes SHOT Show 2021 Rumor Mill and What's Coming
- Thread starter Glassaholic
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If the updated Kahles 525i DLR - Dynamic Long Range - hasn't been talked about yet:
www.thefirearmblog.com
Love all the PRS options that are coming out.
[SHOT 2021] New Kahles Riflescope - K525i Dynamic Long Range -
The name is K525i Dynamic Long Range (DLR) with features an extra wide field of view, 100 clicks per rotation with reliable tracking and clearly defined clicks, extra-large turret lettering for easy and fast reading.You can also add an extra-long throw lever & parallax spinner for quick adjustments.
www.thefirearmblog.com Love all the PRS options that are coming out.
And still not availible in the NX8....not suprising NF fucked everyone again.
I do have an update on this on the original post, the changes Kahles made to the K525i address a lot of the issues that early adopters encountered with that scope, hopefully this puts it more on par with other $3k class scopes.If the updated Kahles 525i DLR - Dynamic Long Range - hasn't been talked about yet:
[SHOT 2021] New Kahles Riflescope - K525i Dynamic Long Range -
The name is K525i Dynamic Long Range (DLR) with features an extra wide field of view, 100 clicks per rotation with reliable tracking and clearly defined clicks, extra-large turret lettering for easy and fast reading.You can also add an extra-long throw lever & parallax spinner for quick adjustments.
Love all the PRS options that are coming out.
Would love to see similar changes to the K318i with wider angle eye piece there as well
I hope to get one soon to try it. I've used the 624i MSR recently and I was surprised how dated it felt, but I'm not sure the 525i is that much better? My friend still beat me with his K624i but I blame ballistics...LOL
Very tempted to try the K318 vs ZCO420 vs. 3-20PMII or similar.
Very much agree. Other reticles are available across all lines. A lost opportunity IMO to sway buyers away from the Vortex 1-10.
They did this shit from the jump by releasing the NX8 and ATAXR8 at the same time.
Most people would have spent $1000+ less and saved some weight to get a similar optic with a good reticle. Yes the ATACR has better glass and a better eyebox but its kind of a pig on a lighter rifle.
So NF's greedy ass decided to only put a good reticle in the ATACR forcing people to pony up $2800, which is silly. They would have sold a TON more NX8 and would be able to compete better against vortex by taking market share.
Greedy and stupid at same time. They could have sold a metric shit ton of NX8's.
And now the 1-10 Gen3 is just that much better of a buy and can be had for same price as a NX8.
The K624i is still an excellent scope, some consider it better than the K525i in some ways, so hopefully the DLR version will allow the K525i to be more on par, the biggest issue with the K624i was the CA which they corrected for in the K525i pretty fair if I understand, but they limited the FOV in the K525i and some noted their was resolution falloff above 20x, new eyepiece will fix the FOV issue, but not sure if it will fix the resolution falloff unless they tweaked other aspects of the internals.
Having had 3 k624s and 1 k525 the k525 was a big disappointment to me. The glass in the k525 was the same as one of the k624s I had at the time and noticably worse than my friends k624. The clicks were way too close on the k525 also. Having had to send 2 of my k624s off to Kahles to repair for wandering zeros I decided to swear off Kahles for good because I didn't feel like I could trust them for matches. Having personally known many shooters that used them and none of them still do also speaks volumes.
I'm interested in hearing your POV on the 1 x 10 Vortex. My current AR build is just about complete in 6.5G. I have never used a LPVO.
Current optic inventory: Kahles 6x24i & 3x18i, TT 3x15M, S&B Ultra Short 5x20 & Swarovski Z6 2X15.
Trying to keep this one short for NV use. Feedback welcome
I’ve been on the fence of buying one for a minute now. TBH another scope isn’t very high on the priority list. If it was that’s what I’d be buying. I’m kinda curious though to how much better it is than an NXS 2.5-10x24 across the whole mag range other than being FFP with a lot of extra going on in the reticle. Dunno if it’s worth the gamble but the March 1-10 can be had for a once in a lifetime pre order price. I really don’t think the Vortex would be an unwise purchase. I’ll own one myself once the timing is better. I do wish however, that Vortex designed the center dot to be maybe .1 mil really only for the purpose of 10x load development. For all practical sense what they got going on is very intelligent. Price point can’t be argued with IMO. You’ve got plenty of options in your inventory for load development / scalpel work. The mag range will be excellent for having a big reticle behind a clip on while retaining a clean picture and low fuzz.
I am also seeing a trend with several manufacturers toward making a series of announcements through the year rather than announce everything at SHOT. That way, they can be ready with at least some amount of product coming shortly after the announcement.
I think we will see good quality light-ish FFP scope to address this niche before the summer.
ILya
That makes sense, while it is nice to know what is coming, when a mfr announces something that takes more than a year to deliver it takes the steam out of the engine so to speak. Nightforce has been very good at shipping product within a month of announcement and Vortex is also now starting to make sure they can ship product almost immediately.
I think you and I might be thinking of the same scope
Ayye Emmm Geee?I think you and I might be thinking of the same scope
I think you and I might be thinking of the same scope
Probably not, but anything is possible.
ILya
Is it from a manufacturer that imports and markets their optics in Australia?That makes sense, while it is nice to know what is coming, when a mfr announces something that takes more than a year to deliver it takes the steam out of the engine so to speak. Nightforce has been very good at shipping product within a month of announcement and Vortex is also now starting to make sure they can ship product almost immediately.
I think you and I might be thinking of the same scope
I'll be bitter if us Aussies miss out.
No you'll probably have it, just at 1000% markup.
That's generally how it works down this end of the world.
Just to be clear: as soon as the scope gets here, I will be providing prodigious commentary on how wonderful it is without ever going into any specifics or mentioning exactly what the scope it or posting any pictures. Just for you.
ILya
Weighing .2oz more...
Point being I did not want another 35oz 4-20 scope. I'm sure the NF will be a big seller as most anything with NF on the side is, but the ZCO is lighter and has considerably more FOV at the low end with the best IQ I've seen in an ultra short so what does the NF give me that the ZCO doesn't already provide?
I'll do the same with mine, but I'll post pictures (just not with the scope in it
) NF on the side.
.2oz lighter
Found this posted on Arfcom. A new 1-10x24 from Primary Arms. Made in Japan (I'm assuming JOL).
Attachments
Meh, would rather have the ZCO, but I do like the Mil-XT more than the MPCT2 so it does have that. NF also has 34mm tube vs 36mm so it does have that too.
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The Nightforce is .4 oz heavier than the ZCO, 34.8 vs 35.2 unless specs have changed. The weight is negligible as they’re both heavy pigs
Those are some low profile turrets there! GLx line is their mid range so I’m guessing some compromises at the price point for a 10x FFP scope but thrilled to see they fixed the ACSS reticle to offer mil hash marks or dots for wind for those who dial the solution. Would love to see these reticles make their way into the GLx 2.5-10 scope.
The Nightforce is .4 oz heavier than the ZCO, 34.8 vs 35.2 unless specs have changed. The weight is negligible as they’re both heavy pigs
At least they’re not 48oz
Well that’s a very good point... ahem Vortex I'll do the same with mine, but I'll post pictures (just not with the scope in it
I guess we will have to get together somewhere equidistant from our locations (Raton) and not talk about the new scopes in good company.
ILya
a 24mm objective on a 1-10, no thanks. These companies forget how important exit pupil is.
No, they do not. It is very hard to do a scope with 1x on the low end and a large objective without the whole thing becoming huge. The purpose of LPVOs, first and foremost, is to be good on 1x. One of the reasons you see LPVOs with top end magnification above 6x lean increasingly toward FFP designs is so that the reticle would work equally well on 5x as on 10x. The top end of the magnification is there for when conditions an shooting position allow it.
This comes up all the time and I even did an explanation video on the technical reasons a couple of years ago:
@koshkin
I totally agree, 1x is arguably the most important. I use LPVOs daily, and have used them for the last decade. I know I don't hold a candle to your technical knowledge as well and I've learned a ton from you. My point is I would rather have a great 1-4 or 1-6 than a meh 1-8 or 1-10. I have the vortex 1-10 and the atibal 1-10 in addition to several others. From a working point I think there is a point of diminishing returns. More isn't always better. I know right now we are in the battle for magnification and every optic company needs to keep up with the jones' but just because you can doesn't mean you should. I think the vortex is a pretty well executed 1-10 and the atibal is pretty solid when you compare what you are getting for the money. The atibal obviously isn't as nice but is less money. In 1-10 Ill also argue reticle design is also really important. Back to my post, the small exit pupil, depending how the eye relief is as well, makes for challenging real use, in the cold, in awkward positions, low light etc.
I see a 1-10 as more of a specialized LPVO and I would be totally ok with a larger objective, a little more size/weight for a more usable high end as well. I think you've said expense is an issue and I'm ok with paying good money for the perfect LPVO, but IMO it doesn't exist yet.
I totally agree, 1x is arguably the most important. I use LPVOs daily, and have used them for the last decade. I know I don't hold a candle to your technical knowledge as well and I've learned a ton from you. My point is I would rather have a great 1-4 or 1-6 than a meh 1-8 or 1-10. I have the vortex 1-10 and the atibal 1-10 in addition to several others. From a working point I think there is a point of diminishing returns. More isn't always better. I know right now we are in the battle for magnification and every optic company needs to keep up with the jones' but just because you can doesn't mean you should. I think the vortex is a pretty well executed 1-10 and the atibal is pretty solid when you compare what you are getting for the money. The atibal obviously isn't as nice but is less money. In 1-10 Ill also argue reticle design is also really important. Back to my post, the small exit pupil, depending how the eye relief is as well, makes for challenging real use, in the cold, in awkward positions, low light etc.
I see a 1-10 as more of a specialized LPVO and I would be totally ok with a larger objective, a little more size/weight for a more usable high end as well. I think you've said expense is an issue and I'm ok with paying good money for the perfect LPVO, but IMO it doesn't exist yet.
That's a fair point. I thought that Atibal was not worth the money, but I like the Razor Gen3 a lot. For me, having a bit more magnification is not a requirement, but it is nice to have even with a smallish objective, so the price difference between Gen2 1-6x24 and Gen3 1-10x24 is worth it to me. They both work about equally well for me on 1x, so the downside is the price. Going from Gen2 to Gen3, the sacrifice is my wallet.
ILya
I like the Gen 3 a lot more and one should as its obviously a nicer optic, the atibal I think is fair for the price but it has its quirks. Mainly the reticle and turrets, but if someone wanted a 1-10 and on a budget, well not everyone can afford a vortex. Call me crazy but the 1x on 1-10 for some reason I like a little better when illuminated. My gen 2 has the JM reticle so a little different and SFP vs FFP. In some ways though I wish the Gen 3 reticle was a little less busy, this isnt a long range PRS optic so I wouldn't mind getting rid of some of the christmas tree.
Really curios when they expand the Gen 3 lineup. I would love to see some new razors.
Their pricing plus tax is a deal killer for me. Lots of better deals out there on identical product.
I just saw on Instagram that Kahles also added a new AMR to their K525i reticle options:
www.kahles.at
KAHLES: Riflescopes
I like the Gen3 reticle, although I can make a good case for the MDR-T6 in the S&B.
The Gen3 reticle is sized the way it is so that you could get to 900-1000 yards with 308 or something similar without touching the turrets. It is not a PRS optics, but it is designed to stretch the range a little more than you can easily do with the Gen2 1-6x or similar designs.
That is sorta one of the things where Atibal falls flat on its face: the reticle. It simply does not fit the scope. With the Atibal, if I want to stretch the distance a little bit, I pretty much have to use the turrets. Except they do not track well.
In general, I thought Atibal was a good flashlight, but a so so scope. The GRSC version of that design worked much better for me simply because the reticle, while busy and needing some getting used to, was far more functional beyond MPBR.
With the S&B MDR-T6, the reticle got me out to about 600 and I dialed beyond that. However, that turret tracks perfectly.
After a couple of discussions here and a few other places, I think I am going to do a livecast on LPVOs tomorrow night. I think you are and I have some application disagreements, but are largely on the same page. However, I found so much fiery and opinionated nonsense out there, that going back to the basics for a bit seemed like a good idea.
ILya
If you have the Scratch, the S&B 1-8CC is the top dog right now, but the G3 razor is less than half the price and 95% the optic.
Yea the Kahles at $27-800 is a fair price. Anythning after that might as well spend more for the ZCO. I would rather have a ZP5 than a Kahles however.
Yes and yes. A phenomenal scope with a great company backing it and repair and support right here in the USA.
I have 2 of the ZC-4x20 scopes and I will get another.They are outstanding scopes.
I hope not, two new lighter, mid-power, illuminated MRAD tree, FFP scopes in the $1000-$1500 range would be fantastic!
