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Shoulder pressure, relaxing and recoil jump????

stradibarrius

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 2, 2017
267
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I am a bit confused. LOL! Trying to find the sweet spot between relaxing, pulling the rifle back into my shoulder and muzzle jump during recoil. If I pull the rifle back into my shoulder with the pressure equal to the weight of the gun, as per Frank, then I am no longer relaxed. Also trying to stop the muzzle jump off target during the recoil. It always jumps to the left.
Advise please...
 
If the rifle is jumping to one side, then it isn't recoiling straight back. You want your shoulders perpendicular to the rifle. Experiment with how you're behing the rifle and it should become obvious. If you're facing one way, the rifle jumps to the right; if you face the other way it goes left... Good luck
 
Is there a "rule" like if the jump is to the left then your feet are left of your shoulders or your strong shoulder is not square???
 
Yeah, assuming your feet are in a stright line behind your shoulders, if the rifle jumps left then your feet are too far right.
 
If the rifle is jumping to one side, then it isn't recoiling straight back. You want your shoulders perpendicular to the rifle. Experiment with how you're behing the rifle and it should become obvious. If you're facing one way, the rifle jumps to the right; if you face the other way it goes left... Good luck
Yeah, assuming your feet are in a stright line behind your shoulders, if the rifle jumps left then your feet are too far right.
Thanks Maddy!!! This is something I have wrestled with for two years. When I watch the videos of Frank shoot it seems his gun almost doesn't move. When I try to complete the shot follow through As I look through the scope I will be 3-6" left of my target.
 
If I can make a suggestion, do what Maddy is saying but dry fire first. Practice closing your eyes as you dry fire, then open them. If you are coming off target then your fundementals are already flawed. Natural point of aim is what you are striving for, this has two parts. One is the rifle, the other is your body position. This dry fire drill will show you if you have errors in either. This will take practice and experience but you will eventually be able to spot your own impacts.
 
In addition to above, the things that made it click for me was: Body position with natural point of aim... get obsessive about it. This includes front rest height and cheek pressure on the stock.

Second was relaxing. An old instructor taught me... drop a golf ball on concrete, it bounces high. Bounce it on a sandbag, the impact is absorbed and it doesn't go anywhere. Your entire body needs to be the sandbag... Relax.

There were some avitars that had some females shooting rifles prone. You could see the recoil impulse flow down their body And rippled like waves in the water. It wasn't just beautiful to watch, it showed me that i was tensing my shoulder and creating concrete.

Others way more knowledgeable than me should chime in soon. I'm still learning myself.

Hope this helps. Keep us updated on your progress.

Will
 
This info is making good sense to me but what about relaxing and pulling te gun back into the shoulder with equal pressure to the weight of the gun. These two things seem to be almost opposites. how can you use muscle tension to pull and relax at the same time???
Also can I pracitce this at home with dry fire or do I need the real recoil?
 
The way I like to think about it is that the shoulder pressure comes from the bipod load. Don't pull with your firing hand.
 
To me the bipod load method feels more comfortable and I can relax and not feelo like I'm pushing the gun.
I need to figure out how to make those small adjustments to get lined up correctly behind the gun.
Thanks for all the good help/info!
 
In addition to above, the things that made it click for me was: Body position with natural point of aim... get obsessive about it. This includes front rest height and cheek pressure on the stock.

Second was relaxing. An old instructor taught me... drop a golf ball on concrete, it bounces high. Bounce it on a sandbag, the impact is absorbed and it doesn't go anywhere. Your entire body needs to be the sandbag... Relax.

There were some avitars that had some females shooting rifles prone. You could see the recoil impulse flow down their body And rippled like waves in the water. It wasn't just beautiful to watch, it showed me that i was tensing my shoulder and creating concrete.



Others way more knowledgeable than me should chime in soon. I'm still learning myself.

Hope this helps. Keep us updated on your progress.

Will

Will, your analogy of being a sandbag is great! I was shooting this morning and working on my breathing and being relaxed. When I did everything right, the gun would just settle back unto the center of the target. I'm just learning to shoot long range and your sandbag analogy is going to be my swing thought! Thanks.
Mike
 
am anxious to get to the range and test out some of these tips. I hope others will chime in.
 
There's no replacement for in-person training.

That said, there are some good DVDs out there if you haven't already availed yourself.
 
The barrel jumping left to me says you need to shift where you place the stock in your shoulder. We always say shoulder, but in today's long range shooting it should be more on the pectoralis.

As many here talk about natural point of aim, that's how I learned to shoot. But, as that was old style, the feet were off slightly to the left, (I'm R. handed) and the rifle pointed slightly left across the body.

What I learned here on SH was to put your feet equilaterally straight back, move the butt inward and the rifle points straight forward. Traction is with the balls of the feet. So, get the fee flat. The reason for this is at long range small changes in velocity affect poi height. Flexing with the shot while the butt was in the shoulder pocket, and slightly crossing, doesn't give consistent movement rearward, which translates into different velocities. The minimal change in velocity doesn't mean much where we all used to shoot out to 500 yds. But at 1k+ is where that larger deviation starts to really show.

IME, completely stopping the recoil works best for long range shooting. WB300 I gotta say I like the sandbag analogy. Too often I too get too tense and even if the rifle doesn't go off in a different direction, it goes forward and adjustment is needed to get back in position for the next shot. But, when the recoil is totally stopped and I don't have to shift is when I do a lot better. You can really tell when you are on when you can watch the bullets hit. I'm not talking seeing where the dust kicks up after the shot. I mean watching the whole process and being able to actually see the hole get punched in paper or the splat on steel.

As mentioned above, one of the difficulties of the "straight back" style is that elevation of the rifle and the head relationship is harder to attain. Dry firing helps a ton. When you get on the range, get prone and practice your position a lot before starting firing and I'll think you'll find when you get comfortable in it, it helps.
 
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This thread needs the Gif of the recoil traveling through the womans body. I read every post hoping someone had it... (Its for science)


Do you mean this one?


gYYC3US.gif


Or this one?

Recoil.gif
 
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I can't stop looking. Make sure you're square and let the rifle do the work on recoil. Once square and jumps to the left move butt to the left and vice versa. The idea is to keep the target in sight after recoil. Practice is a lot cheaper and more effective than starting out with a brake and only ever using a brake. Fuck a bunch of brakes. You should be able to sound off 50 .30 magnum with no fatigue once you get the hang of it. The Hide and Rifles Only have a free video on YouTube.
 
I pull back into a shoulder with a small bit of firmness but not enough to where my biceps is flexing. You have to find your comfortable spot. It doesn’t need a ton of force, just enough to make it snug.

If you’re experiencing bipod hoo then you’re not square behind the rifle. In the prone position of your bipod hops to the side after your shot then adjust your hips in the opposit direction. I like to think of it as sliding my belt buckle to one side.
 
You guys keep telling him to get square behind the rifle and then unsquare himself in the opposite direction. Google *bipods don't hop*. Also, keep your bowling ball head off the rifle stock.
 
On my TRG the butt plate is adjustable up, down you can cant it and you can rotate it. Today I raised the butt plate so that the center of the bore is in line with my shoulder. it "normal" position the buttplate is lower than the center of the barrel. This helped a lot and almost stopped the hop. I think it needs to go up just a bit more.
 
Both vids are scientific, but for proper research, more videos gents. It's for science after all.....
Seriously, following the direction given here i think it just takes practice, time, and focus.
 
On my TRG the butt plate is adjustable up, down you can cant it and you can rotate it. Today I raised the butt plate so that the center of the bore is in line with my shoulder. it "normal" position the buttplate is lower than the center of the barrel. This helped a lot and almost stopped the hop. I think it needs to go up just a bit more.

This is a big part of it, if the recoil is straight back, and it is absorbed into the shoulder pocket, with your body square to the rifle, it isn't going to jump or move around. If the butt of the stock is lower than the barrel, there is an opening if you will for energy to leak up, which is barrel jump.

I don't know that I agree with the idea of not resting your melon on the stock. As long as you are doing it consistently, that is a big part. If you are getting the recoil directly back, I think that resting your head on the stock, with a good rear bag works. I find that the more I have to hold my head up, the more tense I am in my back and shoulders. I can't be the "sandbag".

Good thread for me.
 
Is there a "rule" like if the jump is to the left then your feet are left of your shoulders or your strong shoulder is not square???


Yes, there is a basic rule that will tell you exactly what is going on...

Read as - going left? Is your RT shoulder or RT hip slightly forward? Downward pressure with your dome, pushes the barrel up...

Sandbag analogy is good. I have tried 'free recoil' and realize that with larger calibers (particularly no brake / no can) may not be super healthy for the shoulder. As such, IMHO square and even - ankles, knees, hips, and shoulders, a slight pull of the buttstock into the shoulder / a slight push (PG) with the trigger hand, attention to the amount of head pressure, consciously confirm that you are looking through the center of the optic (no black edges), press the trigger to the rear such that the force is focused in the center of the trigger shoe, and such that no lateral force is imparted during the press.

That all said - when you're laying in a funky depression, askew from the fall line, body positioning and muscle forces may not remain 'square to the rifle and target', instead you will need to use your body and muscle forces appropriately to counter the non lineal recoil forces, and functionally 'create' such squareness.
 
This info is making good sense to me but what about relaxing and pulling te gun back into the shoulder with equal pressure to the weight of the gun. These two things seem to be almost opposites. how can you use muscle tension to pull and relax at the same time???
Also can I pracitce this at home with dry fire or do I need the real recoil?

Practice BJJ, magical how it relates to other aspects in life.