SHTF rifle

WhereNow&How

Gunny Sergeant
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I love all this cray-cray EMP talk. Always remember Rule #1. It’s #1 for a reason.
Not so sure its cray-cray. If the Carrington Event happened to day it would be back to the stone age for us or worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_1859_geomagnetic_storm

If memory serves me correct, I think it was back in 2011 we missed getting nailed by one way stronger than this by about 12 hours or so due to the rotation of the sun I believe. It ejected basically at 180 degrees away from the earth.

Then you got other bad actors out there like Rocket man and other nitwits.

So EMP proof you some backup stuff. :)

"In The Land Of The Blind. A One Eyed Man Is King" : Erasmus.
 
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E-Tool

Improved with laxatives!
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ACOG TA01

Never run out of batteries. Actually get both, every decent mount made today is QD. If weight is a concern get an SRO or holosun with a QD mount, and an ACOG or non battery powered LPVO and switch them as necessary.

Also a bayonet lug because if tou run out of ammo you can fight the militias for theirs.

Maybe a saber also because nobody wants to fight a pirate.
 

madppcs

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Consider the Trijicon RX series red dots. No batteries...
Anything thats consumable is for short term use. Even the 30k hour claims on other red dots. Batteries are prone to failure. And batteries fail all day, every day.
 
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Rancid Coolaid

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Can you train without gear?

What is true of precision rifle training is also true of the SHTF trend, just amplified: people want a new piece of gear to turn them into John Wick. Notice, if you will, that guys accepted to be quite good with combat weapons use vastly different stuff - or the same stuff in vastly different ways. If guys in tier1 and tier2 groups set their weapons up uniquely for themselves, how the hell is asking 100 guys on a forum what they run going to lead to a weapon set up for you?

In contrast, get your ass to the range, shoot, shoot, shoot. Run drills, introduce stress, get professional instruction, train train train.

If you wish to argue LPVO vs red dot and don't have thousands of rounds through each, how valuable is that advice? And, in the end, people online listening to other people online based purely on an online forum are idiots and will die shortly after the shit hits the fan. Which is okay, the rest of us - who chose training over upgrading an optic - will ratfuck your gear and probably get a super cool upgrade.

Carry on.
 

WhereNow&How

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Notice, if you will, that guys accepted to be quite good with combat weapons use vastly different stuff - or the same stuff in vastly different ways. If guys in tier1 and tier2 groups set their weapons up uniquely for themselves, how the hell is asking 100 guys on a forum what they run going to lead to a weapon set up for you?

In contrast, get your ass to the range, shoot, shoot, shoot. Run drills, introduce stress, get professional instruction, train train train.

Which is okay, the rest of us - who chose training over upgrading an optic - will ratfuck your gear and probably get a super cool upgrade.

Carry on.
So what you state is generally true and accurate. However, hecque there is always invariably that dang HOWEVER moment.

Never forget, underestimate or disregard lessons gleamed and learned from such events as in Operation Red Wings/Lone Survivor.

In the simplest description, basically 5 of the most highly trained Warfighters with the full weight and compliment of Uncle Sugar enter an arena where they are engaged by some pretty "low skilled" adversaries and do not come out well at all.

So no matter how well trained and skilled one might be, does not guarantee that you will "ratfuck" anyone's gear.

Lady luck can be awful cruel at times. Remembering that, is also a major component which can help keep you alive during hostilities.

Erich Hartmann's aka (‎Bubi "The Kid") philosophy and tactics in the air also carry great weight on the ground as well.

 

ross2068

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Hi everyone I’m asking for suggestions I’m building a 12.5 inch ar15 pistol for SHTF I’m stuck on what optic to run I plan on using night vision and IR laser setup but can’t make my mind up on running a eotech red dot with Magnifier or going with a LVPO with a offset RMR or a holosun 508T v2 any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
I'd spend the money on a can but... I've also got a nv ready exps3 I might part with 🤷‍♂️
 

TheGerman

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12.5 is going to have low velocity to where M193 will only reliably fragment somewhere under 100 yards. You can kick this out a bit by using something like the 64g Nosler, but its much more expensive.

With this being a carbine, and with what I just mentioned, I'd look at either the EoTech XPS3 or the Aimpoint T1. I use both on rifles that each have a PEQ15 on them; my KAC 11.5CBQ has the EoTech and my KAC 16inch has the Aimpoint. They both have a bit of a PRO/CON between them, but are the best options for your needs. Absolutely stay away from made in fucking china shit for a go time gun. Fuck Holosun.

EoTech has a one click NV setting whereas the T1 you need to turn the dial. Not a huge issue either way.

Aimpoint battery will last for years and can be left on the entire time, whereas the EoTech needs to be turned off and if I remember right, has around 250 hours per battery. Regardless, keep a spare on the gun for either and pay more attention to topping off the Eotech battery as when it goes out at the wrong time, its going to suck.

For NV use, you need to put both up on a riser. I use the KAC M110 ring riser for the EoTech and the KAC hirise mount for the Aimpoint. Downside for the EoTech here is that unless you want to find an older Wilcox rail and site post risers, you won't be able to set any kind of BUIS up with the EoTech whereas the Aimpoint has risers where you can see through them and use the BUIS if needed.

EoTech reticle is 'faster' for CQB but eats up real estate at more distance. The benefit to it is if you are aiming passivly though it at night, its not as easy to mistake your IR laser dot for the Eotech reticle where the Aimpoint dot and IR dot on low look identical.
 

Rancid Coolaid

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So what you state is generally true and accurate. However, hecque there is always invariably that dang HOWEVER moment.

Never forget, underestimate or disregard lessons gleamed and learned from such events as in Operation Red Wings/Lone Survivor.

In the simplest description, basically 5 of the most highly trained Warfighters with the full weight and compliment of Uncle Sugar enter an arena where they are engaged by some pretty "low skilled" adversaries and do not come out well at all.

So no matter how well trained and skilled one might be, does not guarantee that you will "ratfuck" anyone's gear.

Lady luck can be awful cruel at times. Remembering that, is also a major component which can help keep you alive during hostilities.

Erich Hartmann's aka (‎Bubi "The Kid") philosophy and tactics in the air also carry great weight on the ground as well.

The point of the post was that training far surpasses gear selection in all but the most extreme cases. True, the best training is no guarantee of survival; but luck favors the prepared - as someone once said.
 
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Sogan

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An option to consider if you haven’t already, for an AR pistol (depending on if and how you plan on toting it around) is the Law folder. It’s a nice piece of kit that allows you to transport and store your firearm in smaller bags etc but still be quickly deployable as opposed to having it broken down into separate upper/lower. In my opinion your “shtf” rifle/pistol should be something you are able to and will easily grab to throw in your car when you leave the house every time, and not cause unnecessary attention. As far as optic goes just pick something you like and and are comfortable with. If you want fast and lite go with an Aimpoint or eotech, if you think you may want a Lpvo get one and try it out. Wait around for a good deal on something used, give it a shot and resell it if it’s not your thing. I find that no matter how many people’s opinions I read about some things, I really am not satisfied until I get some firsthand experience to see/decide for myself sometimes.
What bag is this?
 

walt willis

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Good judgement may be the key element in all aspects of a war fighter? Observe the winners first and try to understand what makes them better.
Go visit a bench rest match and take notes as you as questions. This will save you time and money trying to reinvent the wheel. You can waste a lot of money trying to buy points with very expensive gun parts. KISS? 90% of the people that tell you shit don't know shit. Good luck!5af462ca43bf0.jpeg
 
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veeramani

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What do you think about a carry handle 20 incher with a small acog on top.
With tritium open sights, a peq 15 on the handguard.

If shtf you want as much distance between the enemies since they are less likely to see you and return accurate fire.

etc.

Look at the gulf war 1 incident where they waited till Saddam's troops were 600m away and just mowed them down.

Cqb is just too dangerous with the risk of IEDs
 
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WhereNow&How

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Absolutely stay away from made in fucking china shit for a go time gun. Fuck Holosun.
I tend to wholeheartedly agreed with this statement, especially for a SHTF rifle setup. However, I have recently started swapping out Aimpoint T2's with the Primary Arms Cyclops. It too has a 3x magnifier setup behind it.

I am finding out that the Primary Arms Cyclops has some important features that set it way ahead of the T2, especially for a SHTF setup. I appears to also be very sturdily built as well.
 

TheHorta

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Since this is in the NV forum, I assume any plans for a "SHTF" rifle would be heavily skewed toward nocturnal operations...

Personally, I'm looking at a night "ensemble" -- not only a rifle with important bits stuck to it, but also what I'm going to stick on my head as well to go along with it (not to mention other accouterments along with it, like armor, comms, brain buckets, mounts, chest rigs, hydration, IFAK, secondary arms, ammo, caliber selection, etc).

Maybe we can turn this into the "If you and your family had to leave your home on foot with one hour notice what would you -- personally, just you -- take?" thread. I know different states complicate this, so let's assume, for baseline purposes: semi-auto only, no mag cap limit, suppressors/SBRs allowed, NV gear must be reasonably / legally acquired / available (no black market stuff (i.e. "pre-owned" .GOV gear), but gray market is OK), along with what an average 6-foot, 200-pound man can wear and carry for an extended period.

The biggest problem I see is powering your junk for more than a couple of weeks. Ideally, I'd carry one of those foldable, portable 100W solar panels, a few 10K Anker packs, some 700mW CR123 rechargeables, maybe some BlackCube AA's as well, and not worry about having to find and carry too many extra batteries. The new breed of high-discharge Li-On rechargeables handle all of the latest NV/Thermal gear just fine and get great run times to boot.

I'd grab my ENVG/FWSI setup, but that might violate the "available" rule above. It's a legit ENG sample with commercial L3 WP tube, but there are only 4-5 of those in existence, so assuming that disqualifies me, I'm going with L3 WP DTNVG + eCOTI on an Ops Core Maritime + G24 with Helstar beacon, Mohawk counterweight, ComTac IV's, PrincetonTec light.

For related bug-out accouterments, I'd run either a Marine ILBE with sleep system or an Eberlestock V90 Battleship ruck/backpack with 3L bladder and extended IFAK/Med Kit augmented with various antibiotics, potassium iodide, etc. Crye JPC plate carrier with Hesco 4800 Level IV plates, Mayflower RC chest rig, basic load-out. I'd probably run a Yaesu or Icom multi-band radio and PTT for ComTac.

Primary gun would be a suppressed KAC SR-15, Elcan SpecterDR 1/4x, CRATOS clip-on, RAID-x IR, SF M600 DF light. Secondary would be my trusty Agency G19/RMR/X400V.

I figure that whole kit is about 90-120 pounds depending upon ammo and supplies/food.

If it's SHTF because of an EMP, well... things just got lighter! :p
 

PBWalsh

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@TheHorta

You mentioned two huge things I don't think to many people consider. One being batteries. While I'm currently without NV capabilities, I can only (practically) carry so many AA, CR123, 2032, or Surefire 1850 batteries before I get to major weight and space restrictions. I definitely need to look at something small and portable for a charging station. Even if you're only using white light here and there, it'll drain out.

The second and bigger thing is total system weight. As the nutnfancy guy on Youtube always harps on, "Speed vs. Mobility", is an important consideration to make when considering the full ensemble of kit. 90 - 120 pounds is definitely nothing to balk at, especially after day 23 when you may be running out of food rations/scarce water resupply. Heck, my belt, PC, and rifle are 40 pounds together. That doesn't even include extra water, food, mags, ammo, clothing, medical, navigation, bedding, tools, binos, etc.

SHTF rifle for me though? 16" AR, ACOG/LPVO + RMR with a CZ Shadow 2 as backup. If the NFA was not a thing, I'd consider a 12.5" in a similar configuration.
 
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st1650

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Acog TA33 308 ballistic which matches a SBR 223
Holosun 508 Elite piggyback on top (has the solar backup)
Perst 3 or 4+ Gen 2 with the green laser
Some kind of offset irons I case you’re really paranoid.
This whole setup weights less than your typical obese 1-6 LPVO with mount.
Also the 508 is at perfect height for passive aiming.
 

walt willis

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Before each mission it help to plan ahead for that mission. If it is a defensive posture you may need early warning devices. If you plan some offensive operation you'll require a plan to UN-ass yourself after your dirty deed. The sniper ambush is one of the most effective methods to win battles. A good force multiplier would be to plan a three party sniper team of a spotter with a shooter in each team. Not like the old days with Gunny Hathcock? First it may help to match the load to the weapon you choose with bullet weight and power charge for the tightest groups. Then sit down with your group to develop a what-IF plan if shit goes bad. Then comes the risk vs. gains factor questions. Most of this work is done by officer grade folks well ahead of any action taken. You need to become the chief cook and bottle washer all by yourself if you are to be a good soldier shooter.5b11a.jpg