Snipers Hide Penmanship Classroom

pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Inspired by a fellow members neat penmanship I was motivated to break out my "Billy Beroo" pen and provide a writing example after outing the other guy.

    Since joining I had suspicion many on the site are adherents to the "Palmer Method" but only in relation to their alone time.....penismanship not penmanship.

    People here being proponents of precision shooting also likely desire to present themselves as professionals, disciplined and with a sense of concern for how they are perceived by others.

    School no longer teaches penmanship of any sort where I live. 4-5 years ago I decided I would no longer write any notes to the family except in cursive.

    We no longer live in the more civilized world of written correspondence but it is important to try and keep the skills alive. Your handwriting is a first glimpse in to your soul in some cases.

    The pen and paper matter......it's mightier than the sword.

    Cursive to me is very mechanical.

    It starts with the pen.....this is my instrument...a gift from the Fams.....

    image.jpg

    It took me ten minutes to get running because it sits so much between "the special" times I use it.

    My writing......when I start its slow and I have to think each letter through.

    It gets faster, flows better as I warm to it but than I note I may miss a letter, add too many humps in an N or forget to follow through.....wish I wrote more....

    image.jpg

    This is more my typical style and output.....

    image.jpg
     
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    brianf

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    I used to at least be legible but since I partially tore a few muscles in my right forearm...it’s gone to total shit.
     

    Not a Sniper

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  • Inspired by a fellow members neat penmanship I was motivated to break out my "Billy Beroo" pen and provide a writing example after outing the other guy.

    Since joining I had suspicion many on the site are adherents to the "Palmer Method" but only in relation to their alone time.....penismanship not penmanship.

    People here being proponents of precision shooting also likely desire to present themselves as professionals, disciplined and with a sense of concern for how they are perceived by others.

    School no longer teaches penmanship of any sort where I live. 4-5 years ago I decided I would no longer write any notes to the family except in cursive.

    We no longer live in the more civilized world of written correspondence but it is important to try and keep the skills alive. Your handwriting is a first glimpse in to your soul in some cases.

    The pen and paper matter......it's mightier than the sword.

    Cursive to me is very mechanical.

    It starts with the pen.....this is my instrument...a gift from the Fams.....

    View attachment 7598964

    It took me ten minutes to get running because it sits so much between "the special" times I use it.

    My writing......when I start its slow and I have to think each letter through.

    It gets faster, flows better as I warm to it but than I note I may miss a letter, add too many humps in an N or forget to follow through.....wish I wrote more....

    View attachment 7598967

    This is more my typical style and output.....

    View attachment 7598968
    The "more typical" example is the Bear pit IMO. Cursive is a thang. That dude who wrote you is a gentleman-sadly being forgotten by most in the electron age.

    Most everything comes down to that "Penthous form" up in here. An opinion. God bless this place.

    For the Commie Sock puppet and handlers, electrons:

    "Fuck off, not gonna happen." LOL. :LOL:

    I'm a righty, who leans left when scribbling - I am on many lists I guess. Tax that bitches.
     

    chevy_man

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  • Jan 25, 2019
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    Lefty here. Fuck ink, fuck pencils, fuck writing. It's all just a blurred mess because the man wants to keep me down! He wants me to use his chosen hand, not my god given gift of wrong handedness!





    (That was sarcasm for those that missed it...)
     

    whatsupdoc

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  • Dec 12, 2017
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    I had a chance to read through a late 1890's NYC Police Log book, the penmanship was pure artwork.
    The lack of spelling and general writing errors was almost impossible.

    I found an old diary, maybe I dont know its in German. When I get a chance I will post pictures of the handwriting.
     
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    Krob95

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  • Sep 7, 2019
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    So I have been writing in cursive since the 9th grade when my English teacher forced us to do it or we would be failed. My hand writing is naturally terrible regardless but often times my cursive is a little better than print lol. Mine is the top, my fiancé’s is the “No” and the bottom text. F8D01ADC-2ED3-441C-8774-18961C6B3292.jpeg
     

    CMP70306

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    Found some of my old 3rd grade note books where my teacher was complaining about my handwriting. She was of the opinion that my terrible penmanship would prevent me from doing well in school.

    Well the jokes on her because my penmanship hasn’t improved (I checked it is damn near identical) but my engineering degree proves she was a fucking moron.
     

    Bullfrog08

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    Interesting topic. I find new grad engineers with shitty penmanship become better engineers than the others. Its either dumb luck or there is a correlation. I notice lefties are always a step above them all.
     

    264win

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  • Oct 15, 2008
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    I’m just old enough to have learned cursive in grade school. Still haven’t ever found a use for it, especially now that most youngsters cannot even read it. Kinda like a fine pocket watch, beautiful but can’t figure out a good use for one.
     

    E. Bryant

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  • Oct 25, 2010
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    I gave up cursive writing in 11th grade upon the advice of my mechanical drafting instructor who suggested that we practice taking notes for other classes in block lettering. This has served my chosen vocation well in the following years. I may not be leaving behind journals that will leave my fellow men with a semi-chub next century, but I'm the guy you want when it's time to put some notes on a whiteboard during a meeting. No regrets.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I gave up cursive writing in 11th grade upon the advice of my mechanical drafting instructor who suggested that we practice taking notes for other classes in block lettering. This has served my chosen vocation well in the following years. I may not be leaving behind journals that will leave my fellow men with a semi-chub next century, but I'm the guy you want when it's time to put some notes on a whiteboard during a meeting. No regrets.
    Neat block printing has its place.

    Certainly blue prints/drafting its an art to see what looks like stencil but was hand lettered.

    Often I will see the guidelines drawn to ensure scale/orientation.

    Trade school in the 80s we had manual drafting class. Dont even know if they still use drafting tables with the right angle guides.

    We used to give the instructor a rash of shit. We sucked. Very nice man had a faded obliterated tattoo on his forearm from his WWII Navy days.

    Wish I had of valued the chance to talk to those guys more rather than being a dip shit.
     

    Bigfatcock

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    I enjoy writing in cursive. It slows down the clock for me. In a world of text messages, and emails, hand writing a letter to someone is very satisfying. You stop and think about what you are writing, and the flow of the message.

    I also write my mother at least twice a month, and I like putting the effort into it.

    My print is atrocious, lol.

    Pens, inks, nibs, and paper types can be as big a rabbit hole as guns.

    I’m a woodworker that uses hand tools. The American made hand tool industry is actually pretty small, and it’s not uncommon to get a hand written letter with a product telling you about it, and thanking you for the purchase. It’s a nice touch.

    I include a hand written letter with the items I produce as well. I get more appreciation for the letters than the items, lol. Often times I’ll describe the build process, or give helpful hints for maintaining the item, and thank the person for the purchase. It’s that finishing touch for a bespoke item.


    To my eyes, quality print is as beautiful as quality cursive.

    I also want to say that the cursive letter Q is an asshole.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I guess I hated it at the time but currently I somewhat miss the "anticipation" of getting shit ordered or letters in the mail.

    I was in Oki in 87 or so when the cost of a stamp went from ten or fourteen cents to a full quarter and I thought it would bankrupt me.

    What I wish my kids could experience was what I had when I would order an item from Bass Pro shops back than.

    Fill out the catalog form, get a check from the parents/bank, put a stamp on, mail it away, than jump like a dog anytime a UPS truck got within ear shot of the house.

    The sense of happiness when the ordered product did finally arrive was like a new Christmas morning.

    All they will ever know is hit the buy now button and the Amazon truck shows up next day.

    Granted its better but it also takes away something....maybe valuing that thing they bought because it was just there, no wait.
     

    Bigfatcock

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    I guess I hated it at the time but currently I somewhat miss the "anticipation" of getting shit ordered or letters in the mail.

    I was in Oki in 87 or so when the cost of a stamp went from ten or fourteen cents to a full quarter and I thought it would bankrupt me.

    What I wish my kids could experience was what I had when I would order an item from Bass Pro shops back than.

    Fill out the catalog form, get a check from the parents/bank, put a stamp on, mail it away, than jump like a dog anytime a UPS truck got within ear shot of the house.

    The sense of happiness when the ordered product did finally arrive was like a new Christmas morning.

    All they will ever know is hit the buy now button and the Amazon truck shows up next day.

    Granted its better but it also takes away something....maybe valuing that thing they bought because it was just there, no wait.
    I remember picking up pine cones to earn money to buy the sweet ass Rice Krispies race car on the cereal box. Took like 6 months to show up!
     
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    winniedonkey

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    Feb 13, 2017
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    My handwriting I'd encrypted. It's your problem you can't read it, not mine.

    Unless I have to read it then it's a reminder on how I am just ever so partially retarded. Be classy, no jokes please...
     

    Ravenworks

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  • Feb 8, 2019
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    Neat block printing has its place.

    Certainly blue prints/drafting its an art to see what looks like stencil but was hand lettered.

    Often I will see the guidelines drawn to ensure scale/orientation.

    Trade school in the 80s we had manual drafting class. Dont even know if they still use drafting tables with the right angle guides.

    We used to give the instructor a rash of shit. We sucked. Very nice man had a faded obliterated tattoo on his forearm from his WWII Navy days.

    Wish I had of valued the chance to talk to those guys more rather than being a dip shit.
    Our 9th grade draft teacher was a WWII POW (pacific/Japanese).
    They hurt that man more than anyone would know.
    He was a cool dude.
    I dont needs no steeenking penmanship. I gots me a cumpooter
    Crawl back into your dumpster.
    Seriously and you wonder why you're treated like the village idiot.
    Can you ever ad anything of value to a thread, if not then maybe you should just shut up.
     
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    Sean the Nailer

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  • May 20, 2006
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    The Left side of the brain controls the Right side of the body, therefore:
    "Left-handed people are the ONLY ones in their Right mind"

    I've taken a lot of notes over the years, and through the classes. I've also learned I have a 'heavy hand' when it comes to mechanical and architectural drafting. Therefore, I have to start with a 4H.

    When taking notes in University, I learned quick to get a fountain pen. One doesn't need to press so hard (fountain pen trains you quick) and at the end of the day, I could still write/move my arm. Prior to getting the fountain pen(s), I couldn't.

    I can type about as fast as I can talk, and I can write with my-own Ukrainian shorthand about as fast as other can talk. (at least I could) This was from being in the Plant Committee and attending SO many meetings/negotiations/etc.

    Still have a few Waterman's, as well as the one that a former member of here made me. IIRC, that was SniperCJ. Long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

    And yeah, it's sad that 'cursive' is damned-near tantamount to "Navajo Code-Talking"
     

    Aftermath

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    I gave up cursive writing in 11th grade upon the advice of my mechanical drafting instructor who suggested that we practice taking notes for other classes in block lettering. This has served my chosen vocation well in the following years. I may not be leaving behind journals that will leave my fellow men with a semi-chub next century, but I'm the guy you want when it's time to put some notes on a whiteboard during a meeting. No regrets.
    This pretty much sums up me. as well.
    My cursive is nice and legible but since I print pretty much everything but my signature, it takes some extra time. I can print VERY legibly and very fast. I spent several years as a math teacher so writing legibly with neatly stacked columns of numbers and letters was my gift to the students.
     

    hankpac

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    Doing family history has exposed me to some incredibly illegible handwriting, and some absolutely beautiful penmanship. US Census workers, writing on a tablet in their laps, seem to be uniformly poor. Recording monks, (1400-1700's) keeping large format registers of births, deaths, marriages, and burials, change from year to year, some very classic, some a crabbed scrawl. Seeing the hand change from one decade to the next on a single page is an amazing experience.
    My personal hand is pretty bad. I was a natural righty, doing everything right handed. For some reason, some teacher convinced my mom, that I should be writing left handed. So from kindergarten to now, I write with my left (poorly) and do everything else with my right. I don't walk in circles, I zig zag. I'm poetic yet analytic, using both sides of my brain. I do both print and cursive badly.
     

    ClangClang

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    Lefty here. Fuck ink, fuck pencils, fuck writing. It's all just a blurred mess because the man wants to keep me down! He wants me to use his chosen hand, not my god given gift of wrong handedness!
    Have you ever considered learning arabic or hebrew? Might be easier for you.
     

    Bigfatcock

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    I guess I hated it at the time but currently I somewhat miss the "anticipation" of getting shit ordered or letters in the mail.

    I was in Oki in 87 or so when the cost of a stamp went from ten or fourteen cents to a full quarter and I thought it would bankrupt me.

    What I wish my kids could experience was what I had when I would order an item from Bass Pro shops back than.

    Fill out the catalog form, get a check from the parents/bank, put a stamp on, mail it away, than jump like a dog anytime a UPS truck got within ear shot of the house.

    The sense of happiness when the ordered product did finally arrive was like a new Christmas morning.

    All they will ever know is hit the buy now button and the Amazon truck shows up next day.

    Granted its better but it also takes away something....maybe valuing that thing they bought because it was just there, no wait.
    I remember picking up pine cones to earn money to buy the sweet ass Rice Krispies race car on the cereal box. Took like 6 months to show up!
     
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    rafiki76

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  • Oct 5, 2020
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    I don't write cursive, but I take a lot of pride in my penmanship and almost exclusively write with fountain pens. I had horrible handwriting through high school but decided to work on it and now am actually proud of it, although I still have to learn real calligraphy.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I don't write cursive, but I take a lot of pride in my penmanship and almost exclusively write with fountain pens. I had horrible handwriting through high school but decided to work on it and now am actually proud of it, although I still have to learn real calligraphy.

    Calligraphy would be cool but you would have to adopt "Old English" and start writing in the "Me doth Thinkest thou protesteth too much" voice and include illumination in your paragraph starts or your only a piker...

    The hair cut too.....

    1617817256558.png
     
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    lash

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    Neat block printing has its place.

    Certainly blue prints/drafting its an art to see what looks like stencil but was hand lettered.

    Often I will see the guidelines drawn to ensure scale/orientation.

    Trade school in the 80s we had manual drafting class. Dont even know if they still use drafting tables with the right angle guides.

    We used to give the instructor a rash of shit. We sucked. Very nice man had a faded obliterated tattoo on his forearm from his WWII Navy days.

    Wish I had of valued the chance to talk to those guys more rather than being a dip shit.
    They don’t even use drafting tables anymore, haven’t for many years now. It’s all CADD now on computers, but my manual drafting skills always helped while making quick sketches and hurry up parts drawings to get to the fab guy for quick quotes or parts.

    I grew up with a teacher for a mother so learned both good cursive penmanship and proper printing technique. It was a big deal for her. Later, my block printing became more precise while taking drafting and industrial drawing, but I still write cursive for speed. I’d throw together some samples but just had carpal tunnel surgery this morning.
     

    TheGerman

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  • Jan 25, 2010
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    I was going to be all hoity toity about a Cross pen, but I remember that during my teenage years, every Christmas my mom would put a bunch of smaller stuff under the tree so you had a ton of gifts. One thing I'd always get was a decent Cross pen.

    Looking back on it, as you tend to do when you're older and finally appreciate things, I can say that they always wrote nice and were a good upgrade to cheap pens you used otherwise. To this day I still don't know how I managed to basically lose every single one of them during the year I got it, before the new one came next Christmas.

    Regardless, it was VASTLY superior to the bullshit refillable ink quill type pens that they literally require you to write with in school in Germany for some odd random weird reason. The only thing those pens managed to do was to ensure that no one could read a fucking thing that they wrote as well as having blue ink on literally everything.
     

    lash

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    Being as I write a lot, a good ball roller pen is my preferred choice. Cheap pens suck and are a waste of my time . I like how the Cross write, but hate the twist action, so they mostly set in a drawer while I use the crap out of the click Parker pen I’ve had for over thirty years.
     
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    pmclaine

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    I remember picking up pine cones to earn money to buy the sweet ass Rice Krispies race car on the cereal box. Took like 6 months to show up!


    Whats a pine cone worth back than?

    In todays dollars?
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Our 9th grade draft teacher was a WWII POW (pacific/Japanese).
    They hurt that man more than anyone would know.
    He was a cool dude.

    Crawl back into your cum dumpster.
    Seriously and you wonder why you're treated like the village idiot.
    Can you ever ad anything of value to a thread, if not then maybe you should just shut the fuck up.

    Computer class 8th grade we had these 5.25 inch floppy disk machines we had to "learn" on.

    They gave us DOS commands to do shit and let us do a project of our own.

    My chosen project was to light up the appropriate pixels to draw an MP40 sub gun. When you hit the enter key it would blast a line of pixels out the muzzle looking like it was firing.

    The instructor, Mr Neil, an Art Garfunkel looking dude and kind of spacey, asked "Whats that?"

    I told him "An MP-40"

    His response "I had one of those in the war, great gun."

    I lacked the balls to ask more and had another indication of how flawed I am.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    What nib did you get? That’s just the tip of the iceberg. Now you need suitable paper!


    My Penafactor suggested medium, hates fine, so I went with medium.

    When I wrote my letter to President Hiden I used one of my kids drawing tablets to write on, a nice textiley paper.

    The medium cross that usually leaves me wishing for less nib worked really well on that paper.

    As pen people point out paper is part of the solution.

    What do you recommend for crayon?
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Nope. I can type 60wpm and own a printer.

    Dragging my hand through ink is only a bad memory now!


    There is a shop in my town that repairs typewriters, old school ones.


    He has some gorgeous machines in there and Im shocked at the affordability.

    He does repairs/service for some high powered authors that wont work on anything but a mechanical typewriter. His parents crapped on him for wanting to do what he does but he is like the keymaker in the Matrix to typewriter people.

    Thought of getting my kids one but it would pain me to hear them doing what I did to typewriters as a kid....that being hitting 7-8 keys at once and getting all the letter arms jammed up as well as other stupid shit.


    Edit/Add - Fuck now i want to buy one of those typewriters just cause they look cool......would go sweet listening to my antique Hallcrafters SR-19 and typing the great American Porn/Rifle/USMC novel......"There I was in her foxhole......"
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    They don’t even use drafting tables anymore, haven’t for many years now. It’s all CADD now on computers, but my manual drafting skills always helped while making quick sketches and hurry up parts drawings to get to the fab guy for quick quotes or parts.

    I grew up with a teacher for a mother so learned both good cursive penmanship and proper printing technique. It was a big deal for her. Later, my block printing became more precise while taking drafting and industrial drawing, but I still write cursive for speed. I’d throw together some samples but just had carpal tunnel surgery this morning.


    7 or so years ago my school was looking into adopting the Lev Vygotsky method of schooling - Tools of the Mind.

    Look up Lev Vygotsky and his 5 Ws........you will be horrified.

    I went to the presentation of this abomination and in the video shown one boy was holding his pencil in this arthritic gorilla fashion. I immediately recognized it as the way my son holds a writing instrument.

    A woman almost immediately raised her hand...said she was an occupational therapist and said the way the boy was holding the pen was going to lead to problems later. I was surprised anyone else noticed it.

    The presenter said "Well we prefer the kids to figure the right way on their on that way they become better adherents because they discovered it on their own"

    I added that if they didnt break a bad habit early it becomes permanent.

    The other lady and I were ignored. The treatment kept me from asking how using any education system of the Soviet Union wasnt akin to including Mengeles research methods in medicine.

    I have no illusions that schools are for other than producing functioning American adults but thats off topic.
     

    LeftyJason

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  • Mar 8, 2017
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    I don't write cursive. My handwriting is an ugly mix of normal and cursive. Old enough to have still learned it in school.

    My grandmother always wrote it in a very narrow cursive. She was born in 1913. I still have all of her letters. I should pull them out and read them. My grandparents have been gone since 08.

    For those interested in pens and related stuff there's a podcast for you called The Pen Addict. I don't listen to it but I've heard of it on one of his other podcasts.
     
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    lash

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    Teach penmanship....fuck, a lot of schools don't even teach cursive anymore. We are witnessing the decline of western civilization before our very eyes.
    I don’t think they teach penmanship in an public schools now, and haven’t for quite some time. It’s not in the STEM curriculum.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I was going to be all hoity toity about a Cross pen, but I remember that during my teenage years, every Christmas my mom would put a bunch of smaller stuff under the tree so you had a ton of gifts. One thing I'd always get was a decent Cross pen.

    Looking back on it, as you tend to do when you're older and finally appreciate things, I can say that they always wrote nice and were a good upgrade to cheap pens you used otherwise. To this day I still don't know how I managed to basically lose every single one of them during the year I got it, before the new one came next Christmas.

    Regardless, it was VASTLY superior to the bullshit refillable ink quill type pens that they literally require you to write with in school in Germany for some odd random weird reason. The only thing those pens managed to do was to ensure that no one could read a fucking thing that they wrote as well as having blue ink on literally everything.

    Cross aint nothing special these days. I dont think any are made in Connecticut anymore.....all China production.

    I had a black powder coated Cross twist ball all through High School kids gave me shit because I never lost it. I still have it somewhere in the house.

    The non powder coated metal parts were gold plated.

    In science class at the lab tables they had these rube goldberg pressure instruments with a red rubber garden hose filled with mercury attached to a glass vial beeker with graduation lines marked on it to read changes.

    We would dump some mercury out and play with it on the granite lab tops. Some much for safety than.

    Pushing it around with my pen I was surprised to see the gold plated point of the pen turn silver.

    I dont know if the mercury stuck to the gold or the mercury stripped the gold from plated part leaving nickle.

    Kind of made me lose the affection for that pen, I thought I was going to poison myself using it.

    still I resurrected it after the USMC and used it in college.

    @TheGerman

    Cant believe you didnt use a Mont Blanc Meisterstruck - thats a non poor pen.
     
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    TheGerman

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  • Jan 25, 2010
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    20,502
    the Westside
    Cross aint nothing special these days. I dont think any are made in Connecticut anymore.....all China production.

    I had a black powder coated Cross twist ball all through High School kids gave me shit because I never lost it. I still have it somewhere in the house.

    The non powder coated metal was gold plated.

    In science class at the lab tables they had these rube goldberg pressure instruments with a red rubber garden hose filled with mercury attached to a glass vial beeker with graduation lines marked on it to read changes.

    We would dump some mercury out and play with it on the granite lab tops. Some much for safety than.

    Pushing it around with my pen I was surprised to see the gold plated point of the pen turn silver.

    I dont know if the mercury stuck to the gold or the mercury stripped the gold from plated part leaving nickle.

    Kind of made me lose the affection for that pen, I thought I was going to poison myself using it.

    still I resurrected it after the USMC and used it in college.

    @TheGerman

    Cant believe you didnt use a Mont Blanc Meisterstruck - thats a non poor pen.

    I had one with a sapphire on the shirt clip.

    Another thing my ex wife stole.
     
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