Sniping In The Ukraine

[Longshot231]

Is it just military guys? Or is it one of those competitions that you see in Europe sometimes where they combine the civilian long range guys and the military for informal comps? I only ask because there isn't any consistent uniforms between them and basically every model of high end rifle that the west makes in that video. I think about the only constant is that they are chambered in 338LM....

Also, thanks for posting this stuff. Particularly Lobaev's progress. It's interesting to see how fast Russia's defence industry is adapting.

Also keep in mind that they could be using Hornady ammunition. Unless I missed it, they did not show any ammunition boxes with brand names on them.

American ammunition, Russian rifles

A POLITICO investigation found Russian military suppliers have declared imports of American-made ammunition.

www.politico.com

 

[mikeb127]

Also keep in mind that they could be using Hornady ammunition. Unless I missed it, they did not show any ammunition boxes with brand names on them.

American ammunition, Russian rifles

A POLITICO investigation found Russian military suppliers have declared imports of American-made ammunition.

www.politico.com

Possibly. At 2:36 it looks like at least one guy is running handloads. While you can't read the headstamps, just going off memory the headstamp on those isn't 'crowded' enough to be hornady.

Edit: At 15:16 you have different primers in what looks to be other handloads. I think this is just a 'rung what you brung' for ammo

 

[Mr.BR]

Is it just military guys? Or is it one of those competitions that you see in Europe sometimes where they combine the civilian long range guys and the military for informal comps? I only ask because there isn't any consistent uniforms between them and basically every model of high end rifle that the west makes in that video. I think about the only constant is that they are chambered in 338LM....

Also, thanks for posting this stuff. Particularly Lobaev's progress. It's interesting to see how fast Russia's defence industry is adapting.

You will not see one single set of uniforms that matches lots of discretion at what is used and NGOs are supplying all sorts of stuff.

This one is military but note (civilian NGOs organize many of these comps so wouldn't be suprised if some of them mix in) in regards to western rifles DT and AI were popular buy in SF units before 2014 while . Styer is probably the most common foreign sniper rifle, Lobaev pre war was mostly a fringe rifle used by presidential detail and some 3 leter agencies , but as it was more expensive than the imports no wonder they did not find wider adoption.

Lots of reloads and Hornady are being used. Precision ammo is one of their bottle necks as domestic manufacturers used to load Lapua components .

Note a DSR an extremely rare beast even in Europe , Desert Tech is in some ways a cheap clone of DSR -Bulpup DSR and DTA got rave reviews when they evaluated them ,DTA was probably chosen as its a much cheaper rifle and possibly better suited to dirt and grime, have seen DSR seize up in fine sand when competing against them.

 

[Mr.BR]

Russian ATACR clones are slowly progresing in small batch production

 

[Clearlight]

It looks like Lobaev new scope is ready for testing ,2 prototypes from the 20 prototype batch

As i posted prior it seems they took apart a NF scope and built a similar scope, Its a wholy crowdfunded project under Lobaev but likely done 'after hours' at an optical manufacturer.

Google translated
Based on the results of product testing (objective or instrumental and subjective), we recorded the following key characteristics of the sight:

Magnification 5 - 35x
Total length - 423 mm
Lens diameter, external - 66 mm
Lens diameter, internal - 56 mm
The outer diameter of the tube is 34 mm
The outer diameter of the eyepiece is 47 mm
FFP
Reticle - LA59 (clone of H59)
Exit pupil - ~14 mm at 5x and ~3.6 mm at 35x
Field of view/100m - ~6.7 m at 5x and ~1.6 m at 35x
The distance from the eyepiece to the eye is 110 mm
Correction management - vertical 29 mrad, horizontal 17 mrad with optional possibility of increasing up to 35mrad vertically and up to 20mrad horizontally. Equipped with a zero stop.
0.1mrad clicks
Lenses- ED optics (extra low-dispersion), with high resolution, all optical elements are multi-coated.

Approximately 6 months have passed from the beginning of prototyping to the pre-production sample. We have something to be happy about. We not only reproduced characteristics of the best sight in the world of the Nightforce ATACR but also surpassed it in some parameters. The sight turned out to have higher light transmission and an increased field of view. Plus, we paid special attention to getting greater eye relief (to better suit use on high recoil arms). And it also succeeded - 110 mm!

We still have a lot of work to do on building production processes for serial production. Well, in the short term, we have firing tests. We are going to use 2 prototypes in daily shootings. And we shoot a lot.

After that, the sights will begin to be shipped for testing and experimental operation.


View attachment 8261802
View attachment 8261803

Intersting, thanks for posting. Anything made at LOW is inherently designed to be relatively easy to assemble, machine, so I’m not surprised. Laser etching the reticle, and sourcing the glass might be the hardest part.

 

[Longshot231]

Intersting, thanks for posting. Anything made at LOW is inherently designed to be relatively easy to assemble, machine, so I’m not surprised. Laser etching the reticle, and sourcing the glass might be the hardest part.

I read some information and watched some videos, years ago, that said that just about 99% of the glass for lenses was ground in China. Sorry but I can't find that information now except for this video which is 11 years old.

So it is a good guess that if Russia wasn't producing their own glass, they are probably getting it from China.

 

[Mr.BR]

I read some information and watched some videos, years ago, that said that just about 99% of the glass for lenses was ground in China. Sorry but I can't find that information now except for this video which is 11 years old.

So it is a good guess that if Russia wasn't producing their own glass, they are probably getting it from China.

Russia has a domestic glass-cutting grinding coating industry. I would have to look for it for a while , but years ago i posted pictorial on one forum, where practically all steps were pictured from raw block of glass to multicoating at some Russian riflescope factory.

You have to understand that often somewhat obscure eastern optics manufacturers have complete glass-making capacity which is not the case with most western manufacturers, so in Europe aside from German manufacturers most lens-making capability is in the former east block all remnants of the communist era

Ukrainians probably have more scope lens manufacturing capability than all US-based riflescope manufacturers combined and then some. Most riflescope manufacturers have none they are just assembling stuff ground, polished and multicoated by a supplier in China,Japan,German, etc

But when you are talking small batches who knows, glass could be German,Japanese ,Chinese ,Russian or most likely a combination of them like it is in most commercially available scopes although these days import substitution is the name of the game in Russia.

But you are probably correct there is likely lots of Chinese ground glass in riflescopes. But keep in mind when you are talking 99% understand that 99% scopes sold on the market that are sub 500$ MSRP , high end scopes we use probably do not come close to representing 1% of the market.

 

[pmclaine]

Russia has a domestic glass-cutting grinding coating industry. I would have to look for it for a while , but years ago i posted pictorial on one forum, where practically all steps were pictured from raw block of glass to multicoating at some Russian riflescope factory.

You have to understand that often somewhat obscure eastern optics manufacturers have complete glass-making capacity which is not the case with most western manufacturers, so in Europe aside from German manufacturers most lens-making capability is in the former east block all remnants of the communist era

Ukrainians probably have more scope lens manufacturing capability than all US-based riflescope manufacturers combined and then some. Most riflescope manufacturers have none they are just assembling stuff ground, polished and multicoated by a supplier in China,Japan,German, etc

But when you are talking small batches who knows, glass could be German,Japanese ,Chinese ,Russian or most likely a combination of them like it is in most commercially available scopes although these days import substitution is the name of the game in Russia.

But you are probably correct there is likely lots of Chinese ground glass in riflescopes. But keep in mind when you are talking 99% understand that 99% scopes sold on the market that are sub 500$ MSRP , high end scopes we use probably do not come close to representing 1% of the market.

I’m guessing for most of the Cold War era up into the 2000s Russian glass was being ground on manufacturing equipment and processes removed from Germany after WWII.

There shit isn’t as crap as everyone makes it out to be.

Just a bit cruder. Probably built to 70% and above grade.

Not A work but it passes and would probably survive a drop test or two.

 

[Darayavaus]

I read some information and watched some videos, years ago, that said that just about 99% of the glass for lenses was ground in China. Sorry but I can't find that information now except for this video which is 11 years old.

So it is a good guess that if Russia wasn't producing their own glass, they are probably getting it from China.

I wanted to smack Fudd McGoober in the head every time he said "Lee-O'pold" it's spelled and pronounced LEU-POLD.

 

[Mr.BR]

I’m guessing for most of the Cold War era up into the 2000s Russian glass was being ground on manufacturing equipment and processes removed from Germany after WWII.

There shit isn’t as crap as everyone makes it out to be.

Just a bit cruder. Probably built to 70% and above grade.

Not A work but it passes and would probably survive a drop test or two.

Machines looked 'digital era'

Their QC leaves a lot to be desired, small internal market ( at least till a couple of years ago when gun laws were liberalized considerably)not much development and revenue outside governmental contracts.

The only game where they remained competitive was NV and IR consumer optics ,Pulsar,ATN, Yukon etc much of the portfolio was built in Ukraine or Russia

That is why this ATACR clone project is being done.To get up to speed in modern FFP optics. But i can imagine its one thing to make small batches of these scopes and whole next-level problems appear when you want to scale production.

Only other modern FFP think is Dedal Harrier 4-28x56- Dark lord of Optics made a review of one some time ago is no ZCO but its better than folk might imagine.

One interesting thing there is quite a lot of know-how in the field of 'intelligent' optics, probably because the most successful scope manufacturers are their NV and IR optic manufacturers so no surprise digitalization is migrating into day scopes

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I’m guessing for most of the Cold War era up into the 2000s Russian glass was being ground on manufacturing equipment and processes removed from Germany after WWII.

Glass is so much better now than even a couple of decades ago, much less WWII

 

[pmclaine]

Glass is so much better now than even a couple of decades ago, much less WWII

Agreed.

Do you think most military members are that level of enthusiast that they could tell?

People here are enthusiasts, military people tend to be more pragmatic.

First question might be “What’s it weigh?”

Glass quality may be way down that list as long as it’s not like looking through milk.

 

[Clearlight]

Machines looked 'digital era'

Their QC leaves a lot to be desired, small internal market ( at least till a couple of years ago when gun laws were liberalized considerably)not much development and revenue outside governmental contracts.

The only game where they remained competitive was NV and IR consumer optics ,Pulsar,ATN, Yukon etc much of the portfolio was built in Ukraine or Russia

That is why this ATACR clone project is being done.To get up to speed in modern FFP optics. But i can imagine its one thing to make small batches of these scopes and whole next-level problems appear when you want to scale production.

Only other modern FFP think is Dedal Harrier 4-28x56- Dark lord of Optics made a review of one some time ago is no ZCO but its better than folk might imagine.

One interesting thing there is quite a lot of know-how in the field of 'intelligent' optics, probably because the most successful scope manufacturers are their NV and IR optic manufacturers so no surprise digitalization is migrating into day scopes

Yup, and cheap thermal units from Belarus. F trying to hide in the the snow, when even shitty Russian inf has thermal.

 

[JJMoody]

I wanted to smack Fudd McGoober in the head every time he said "Lee-O'pold" it's spelled and pronounced LEU-POLD.

 

[babyguppy]

I wanted to smack Fudd McGoober in the head every time he said "Lee-O'pold" it's spelled and pronounced LEU-POLD.

as you drive down RO DA O drive?
pffff, or do you go to a Rodeo?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

You do not "drive" down it, you roll down it.



So now I'm rollin' down Rodeo wit a shotgun
These people ain't seen a brown skin man
Since their grandparents bought one

 

[cas6969]

Do we have anything like that available here and do they work? Inquiring minds want to know.

View attachment 8295252

Isn't that just a thing to scrub/dry your back?

 

[Longshot231]

It appears that the two-way ELR operations in the Ukraine might have a factor in choosing a new sniper rifle for SOCOM.

The first article says the rifle must be capable of firing the the 300 Norma Magnum bullet. My guess is that they meant the round not just the bullet.

Isn't the 338 LM the darling of the sniping war for both sides now?

https://www.businessinsider.com/soc...pers-deal-damage-in-modern-combat-2024-1?op=1

US Military Searching for New Long-Range Sniper Rifle in Bid to Keep Edge over Russia and China

U.S. Special Operations Command is searching for an "Extreme Long Range-Sniper Rifle" to replace the Barrett M107 and Mk 15 sniper rifles currently in its arsenal.

www.military.com