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Something kicking off in Israel

Land is a funny thing, people like to say the spoils go to the victor, but how many here own land that they’d like to have to defend all the time? Where do we draw the line? I mean if countries do it, it’s acceptable. If people do it, you go to jail and lose your land. Nowadays, mobs of teenagers rob people like shoe stores and the store owner cannot protect his shit and people say let the teenagers do their thing because it’s insured and paid for. Those idiots clearly don’t understand the rule of law and order and that someone has to pay for that shit, insured or not. We are a funny ass species, that’s all I’m gonna say.
 
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SilentStalkr said:
Land is a funny thing, people like to say the spoils go to the victor, but how many here own land that they’d like to have to defend all the time? Where do we draw the line? I mean if countries do it, it’s acceptable. If people do it, you go to jail and lose your land. Nowadays, mobs of teenagers rob people like shoe stores and the store owner cannot protect his shit and people say let the teenagers do their thing because it’s insured and paid for. Those idiots clearly don’t understand the rule of law and order and that someone has to pay for that shit, insured or not. We are a funny ass species, that’s all I’m gonna say.
Click to expand...

There lays another facet to the problem. Stores that get looted on the other side of the country do affect me.

If it's a big-box chain store, they have to make up the loss one way and that's by raising the cost of their merchandise all over the country. So the stuff I might want to buy from them will cost me more.

Most big chain stores are self-insured but the small businesses don't have that luxury. So, their insurance will pay for stolen merchandise. You guessed it, insurance rates go up across the spectrum.

Even though it is insurance for stolen merchandise, the insurance companies usually offer policies to individuals and other businesses. So our insurance rates go up along with retail prices.

Everyone suffers because of these crimes.
 
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Rthur said:
b. of or relating to the earliest known inhabitants of a place that was colonized by a now dominate group.

Look closely at that second one.
Click to expand...

Yes, by all means, lets not use the primary definitions unless it supports the argument.

Either way, there is history to suggest Arabs were the first people to inhabit portions of "the area" or "the map" that was eventually "colonized by a now dominate group". The way things look today it seems like the Israelis are the dominant colonizers for at least some parts of the land ... using your definitions.
 
doubloon said:
Yes, by all means, lets not use the primary definitions unless it supports the argument.

Either way, there is history to suggest Arabs were the first people to inhabit portions of "the area" or "the map" that was eventually "colonized by a now dominate group". The way things look today it seems like the Israelis are the dominant colonizers for at least some parts of the land ... using your definitions.
Click to expand...
Look again.
Direct quote from Merriam Webster.
Your bias is showing.
Sorry this hurts your feelings.

As Ishmael was Abraham's son, considered the beginning of the arabs and Abraham started judaism who was considered jewish
and had masses a group/tribe prior to Ishmael's birth. Horse before the cart.


R
 
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Rthur said:
Sorry this hurts your feelings.
Click to expand...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHA :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

He who smelt it dealt it. You're the one bringing up feelings.

Rthur said:
Direct quote from Merriam Webster.
Your bias is showing.
Click to expand...

No bias, maybe an assumption. I am assuming you are not attempting to claim the people in the land in question naturally occurred there so I quoted the b. portion of your referenced definition in my response ... "of or relating to the earliest known inhabitants". There are references which you may choose to ignore that Arab bedouins were the first inhabitants in the region of "the land" about 80 miles south of Jerusalem.

Can't hurt my feelings over this. As a pasty white Murican of Anglo-Saxon lineage I have no skin in a fight between Arabs/Muslims/Jews/et.al. over land that is 10 times more densely populated than the U.S. and is made up of about 600% more desert.

Fuck'em, let them kill each other and their bones rot in the desert.

No cultural appropriation by me I don't wear a jersey for either one. Some people, on the other hand, seem to be heavily invested in one side or the other.
 
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Longshot231 said:
There lays another facet to the problem. Stores that get looted on the other side of the country do affect me.

If it's a big-box chain store, they have to make up the loss one way and that's by raising the cost of their merchandise all over the country. So the stuff I might want to buy from them will cost me more.

Most big chain stores are self-insured but the small businesses don't have that luxury. So, their insurance will pay for stolen merchandise. You guessed it, insurance rates go up across the spectrum.

Even though it is insurance for stolen merchandise, the insurance companies usually offer policies to individuals and other businesses. So our insurance rates go up along with retail prices.

Everyone suffers because of these crimes.
Click to expand...
Exactly!
 
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news.antiwar.com

Israel Planning for Gaza War To Last Over a Year - News From Antiwar.com

The Financial Times reported speaking with sources who said that Israel plans to wage war on Gaza for over a year. In a little less than two months, Israel has killed at least 15,000 people, damaged 100,000 buildings, displaced 1.7 million Palestinians, and destroyed most of Gaza’s medical...
news.antiwar.com news.antiwar.com
 
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lariat said:
news.antiwar.com

Congress Reviews Plan to Facilitate Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians From Gaza - News From Antiwar.com

Israel Hayom reported last week that some members of Congress have reviewed a plan to condition US aid to Arab countries on their willingness to accept refugees from Gaza, which would facilitate the Israeli goal of cleansing the territory of Palestinians. The proposal was shown to key figures in...
news.antiwar.com news.antiwar.com
Click to expand...
Appears that someone pulled a page from "The Book of Bad Ideas".
Only two options to dealing with a problem. Either solve it or eliminate it.
For the past 2,000 years attempts to solve the problem have failed.
The option is running out of time.
 
Just leaving this here. Dead kids in PJs in piles of blood.
 

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sirhrmechanic said:
Report says that IDF is about to flood Gaza’s tunnels with seawater. Big pumps stations set up.

Added bonus of undermining buildings and causing additional collapses.

Excellent plan! Just be ready to shoot the drowned rats when they come up for air!

Sirhr
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I think there’s going to be a lot of drowned hostages.

Hope I’m wrong…….
 
Longshot231 said:
This sounds cruel but the lesson to be learned is not to be a hero. Regardless of the country, the cops and/or military assume that anyone with a gun is a bad guy.

Unless it's a friend or loved one, don't help because you could end up being a target.

Just because other people haven't armed themselves is no excuse to help them. In this country, if you don't get shot by a cop there's a good chance you will be prosecuted.

I don't plan on pulling my gun unless the bad guy might target me.
Click to expand...
This is exactly how the government and it’s badged gangbangers conditioned people to act. Protect criminals. Put fear in the minds of the law biding by making it costly for them to protect one another. Institute a police/surveillance state for their protection of course. The police aren’t the good guys. Not even close. Politicians/gov couldn’t be corrupt without them.
 
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Threadcutter308 said:
Unfortunately, I think there’s going to be a lot of drowned hostages.

Hope I’m wrong…….
Click to expand...

War sucks. It sucks especially for civilians. 2000+ dead already and it will happen again. After Munich, the Israelis should have wiped the “Palestine farce” from the face of the earth.

Hamas lets hostages drown in tunnels, Israel can re-sentence every Palestinian prisoner in their jails to immediate hanging and eliminate every Hamas leader, funder and supporter in every corner of the world. Including Berkeley and Harvard.

Would suck for the remaining hostages. But if you want a world with no more hostages or terror attacks against civilian populations, kill the cancer. Every last cell. Or it will come back or metastasize and infect everything.

Stop playing war like it is some kind of game or nuanced diplomatic clown show. Stop worrying about public opinion at a tactical level. Win it, get it over with. Eliminate the enemy with extreme prejudice and by using the LeMay math of “American lives lost per unit of target destruction.” Which is what he did. And he evolved one of the lowest aircrew casualty rates of the war while destroying hundreds of square miles of enemy territory, turning it into rubble and cinders and air pollution.

Then afterwards write the history in your favor. Don’t bend to some POS NYT reporter’s opinion in waging war. Wage it. With the one goal of ending it with minimal loss of life on YOUR side. If that means turning Gaza into Dresden… well, who gives a shit about Dresden or Nagoya or Atlanta or Hiroshima at this point. Harris and LeMay and Sherman and Groves were proved by history to have saved hundreds of thousands … probably millions… of lives.

Imagine how the world would be different if folks had read Mein Kampf and put a bullet in Hitler’s head in 1931. Apply that logic to Hamas leaders living it up in Trucial State hotels or American lefty college campuses or any other place those rats hide in plain sight.

War is hell. Sherman had that right. Stop trying to make it all cuddly and palatable on the evening news.

Sirhr
 
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Sirhrmechanic is absolutely right, there is only one way to win a war - do whatever it takes to win it, no half measures.


like when some fkr takes a swing at you in a bar, you don’t give him a hug and a teddy bear, you don buy him a drink and try to be friends, you swing and swing hard and make damn sure the bastard cannot get up.
 
NoDopes said:
I read only 13 more? If they are even alive at this point.


History has a way of repeating itself.
Click to expand...

The morning after Operation Meetinghouse - the first big Tokyo fire bombing, one of LeMay’s pilots complained that he had “taken off their guns, dropped the planes down to 5000 feet and they had lost 10 aircraft shot down.”

110 crew were killed or taken prisoner. 17 more planes were lost to mechanical failure and accident.

Only 10 out of about 329 sent on the mission shot down because LeMay correctly estimated that Japanese AA was not optimized for low level attacks and Japan had no night fighters. In return, Meetinghouse killed 100k enemy, eliminated almost 50 percent of industrial capacity in Tokyo and de-housed 1 million workers.

During a war where they lost 60 bombers on some raids over Germany, with little effect on production.

LeMay didn’t take guff from his pilots. But was very clear to the assembled aircrews that they had traded 200 men killed, roughly, but had gutted 16 square miles out of the enemy’s Capitol.

It was the single most destructive (ie successful) bombing raid in history. And in weeks ahead, with even fewer losses, LeMay’s crews eliminated 60 other cities. By August, they were bouncing rubble.

But LeMay still unhesitatingly erased Hiroshima and Nagasaki from the map with No American aircrew losses. Because it would end the war faster

And, he probably killed some American POW’s in the process. Tragically.

But a million American casualties were likely avoided. Tens of millions of Japanese were saved from death at the hands of American and Soviet troops.

Just an early morning historical meandering. I probably got some figures wrong. I haven’t had coffee.

LeMay was one of the smartest, most cerebral, effective military leaders in our history. And reviled and lied-about by the huggy touchy feely left. But he ended wars. He didn’t start them. He saved lives in the millions… but he had to sacrifice hundreds of his crews to do it.

As for the enemy? He wasn’t sacrificing their lives. He was a killing them. Until they stopped making war. It worked. War is hell.

Sirhr
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
The morning after Operation Meetinghouse - the first big Tokyo fire bombing, one of LeMay’s pilots complained that he had “taken off their guns, dropped the planes down to 5000 feet and they had lost 10 aircraft shot down.”

110 crew were killed or taken prisoner. 17 more planes were lost to mechanical failure and accident.

Only 10 out of about 329 sent on the mission shot down because LeMay correctly estimated that Japanese AA was not optimized for low level attacks and Japan had no night fighters. In return, Meetinghouse killed 100k enemy, eliminated almost 50 percent of industrial capacity in Tokyo and de-housed 1 million workers.

During a war where they lost 60 bombers on some raids over Germany, with little effect on production.

LeMay didn’t take guff from his pilots. But was very clear to the assembled aircrews that they had traded 200 men killed, roughly, but had gutted 16 square miles out of the enemy’s Capitol.

It was the single most destructive (ie successful) bombing raid in history. And in weeks ahead, with even fewer losses, LeMay’s crews eliminated 60 other cities. By August, they were bouncing rubble.

But LeMay still unhesitatingly erased Hiroshima and Nagasaki from the map with No American aircrew losses. Because it would end the war faster

And, he probably killed some American POW’s in the process. Tragically.

But a million American casualties were likely avoided. Tens of millions of Japanese were saved from death at the hands of American and Soviet troops.

Just an early morning historical meandering. I probably got some figures wrong. I haven’t had coffee.

LeMay was one of the smartest, most cerebral, effective military leaders in our history. And reviled and lied-about by the huggy touchy feely left. But he ended wars. He didn’t start them. He saved lives in the millions… but he had to sacrifice hundreds of his crews to do it.

As for the enemy? He wasn’t sacrificing their lives. He was a killing them. Until they stopped making war. It worked. War is hell.

Sirhr
Click to expand...

IIRC there were two American POWs in Hiroshima when it was bombed.

It was also not a total unconditional surrender. Japanese envoys agreed to unconditional surrender if the Hirohito could maintain his sovereignty.

Truman agreed to that and it was left out of the history books for a long time. That’s why we were fed propaganda that Hirohito was just an ignorant little boy caught up in the 4-D chess game of politics.

The US was also afraid that Japan would warm up to Stalin in the 1950s. Everything possible was done to prevent alienation of the Japanese people; including dropping charges against war criminals on the run. Does Unit 731 ring a bell?

The fact that Tojo testified that he greatly influenced the cabinet and the emperor toward war bolstered the propaganda about Hirohito.

IMHO, he should have hung like the rest of them.
 
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Longshot231 said:
IIRC there were two American POWs in Hiroshima when it was bombed.

It was also not a total unconditional surrender. Japanese envoys agreed to unconditional surrender if the Hirohito could maintain his sovereignty.

Truman agreed to that and it was left out of the history books for a long time. That’s why we were fed propaganda that Hirohito was just an ignorant little boy caught up in the 4-D chess game of politics.

The US was also afraid that Japan would warm up to Stalin in the 1950s. Everything possible was done to prevent alienation of the Japanese people; including dropping charges against war criminals on the run. Does Unit 731 ring a bell?

The fact that Tojo testified that he greatly influenced the cabinet and the emperor toward war bolstered the propaganda about Hirohito.

IMHO, he should have hung like the rest of them.
Click to expand...

A valid argument. And MacArthur (probably more than Truman) likely got played to some extent by the Lord Privy Seal and perhaps Hirohito.

But Truman was willing to overlook the “unconditional surrender” in order to stop American kids from dying. And worry about what to do about the Emperor later. Which he did. And he was not against trying Hirohito. But he looked at options and leaving him in power as a figurehead was deemed best.

Though Hirohito did offer to step down and face trial. MacArthur felt he could use Hirohito and vice versa. And it worked out well… better than anyone could have hoped at the time, really.

MacArthur was a complete twit as a General IMHO. An egotistical martinet. But he had his moments of genius. Island hopping was one. Inchon was another. But his greatest moment was as the military governor of Japan. Maybe he was played. Maybe he should have eliminated the Emperor. But 80 years later, Japan is a pretty decent global citizen (even if they did fuck up our economy in the ‘80’s.). That is due to MacArthur more than Truman. And to the Japanese who made the most of peace instead of reverting to some ersatz Bushido bullshit ginned up by industrialists and militarists seeking regional hegemony.

Sirhr

PS the film “Emperor” with Tommy Lee Jones as MacArthur is decent. A bit sappy. About Gen Bonner Fellows who investigated Hirohito after the war… based on a book by a Japanese historian that is quite good. I can’t remember author or title. Saving the Emperor or something. Movie does an ok job of the history. Movie is free on YouTube.
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
War sucks. It sucks especially for civilians. 2000+ dead already and it will happen again. After Munich, the Israelis should have wiped the “Palestine farce” from the face of the earth.

Hamas lets hostages drown in tunnels, Israel can re-sentence every Palestinian prisoner in their jails to immediate hanging and eliminate every Hamas leader, funder and supporter in every corner of the world. Including Berkeley and Harvard.

Would suck for the remaining hostages. But if you want a world with no more hostages or terror attacks against civilian populations, kill the cancer. Every last cell. Or it will come back or metastasize and infect everything.

Stop playing war like it is some kind of game or nuanced diplomatic clown show. Stop worrying about public opinion at a tactical level. Win it, get it over with. Eliminate the enemy with extreme prejudice and by using the LeMay math of “American lives lost per unit of target destruction.” Which is what he did. And he evolved one of the lowest aircrew casualty rates of the war while destroying hundreds of square miles of enemy territory, turning it into rubble and cinders and air pollution.

Then afterwards write the history in your favor. Don’t bend to some POS NYT reporter’s opinion in waging war. Wage it. With the one goal of ending it with minimal loss of life on YOUR side. If that means turning Gaza into Dresden… well, who gives a shit about Dresden or Nagoya or Atlanta or Hiroshima at this point. Harris and LeMay and Sherman and Groves were proved by history to have saved hundreds of thousands … probably millions… of lives.

Imagine how the world would be different if folks had read Mein Kampf and put a bullet in Hitler’s head in 1931. Apply that logic to Hamas leaders living it up in Trucial State hotels or American lefty college campuses or any other place those rats hide in plain sight.

War is hell. Sherman had that right. Stop trying to make it all cuddly and palatable on the evening news.

Sirhr
Click to expand...
You speak from a place of sincerity but for any of this to make sense in the real world, much would have to change. Wars aren’t fought to eliminate threats or for the safety of a people. Wars are fought for greed and ideology. Governments don’t give a shit about the men they send to fight and die in wars and they don’t give a shit about the people they rule back at home. They care of only money and power.

Hamas has made Israeli and American “leaders” filthy rich over the years. They only pretend to hate them now because their usefulness has run out or they were forced to act because of the recent event and public opinion. Why do you think all the billions of American money were thrown at Israel all of the sudden for Israel to fight an enemy 20 miles away in a tiny area that can easily be contained? Do they need it? It’s to steal every last drop of resources until these evil politicians/media can conjure up another enemy to propagandize people to hate and fear.
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
War sucks. It sucks especially for civilians. 2000+ dead already and it will happen again. After Munich, the Israelis should have wiped the “Palestine farce” from the face of the earth.

Hamas lets hostages drown in tunnels, Israel can re-sentence every Palestinian prisoner in their jails to immediate hanging and eliminate every Hamas leader, funder and supporter in every corner of the world. Including Berkeley and Harvard.

Would suck for the remaining hostages. But if you want a world with no more hostages or terror attacks against civilian populations, kill the cancer. Every last cell. Or it will come back or metastasize and infect everything.

Stop playing war like it is some kind of game or nuanced diplomatic clown show. Stop worrying about public opinion at a tactical level. Win it, get it over with. Eliminate the enemy with extreme prejudice and by using the LeMay math of “American lives lost per unit of target destruction.” Which is what he did. And he evolved one of the lowest aircrew casualty rates of the war while destroying hundreds of square miles of enemy territory, turning it into rubble and cinders and air pollution.

Then afterwards write the history in your favor. Don’t bend to some POS NYT reporter’s opinion in waging war. Wage it. With the one goal of ending it with minimal loss of life on YOUR side. If that means turning Gaza into Dresden… well, who gives a shit about Dresden or Nagoya or Atlanta or Hiroshima at this point. Harris and LeMay and Sherman and Groves were proved by history to have saved hundreds of thousands … probably millions… of lives.

Imagine how the world would be different if folks had read Mein Kampf and put a bullet in Hitler’s head in 1931. Apply that logic to Hamas leaders living it up in Trucial State hotels or American lefty college campuses or any other place those rats hide in plain sight.

War is hell. Sherman had that right. Stop trying to make it all cuddly and palatable on the evening news.

Sirhr
Click to expand...
We'd never let that happen. What would the CIA do with all their newly found free time ?

Oops. Dumb question....... :rolleyes:
 
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@sirhrmechanic
Basically just admit that you are all good with massacre and genocide and mass killing civilians if its "our side" that does it...
Your statements clearly show you have little to no concern about human life or human suffering of innocent folks caught up in things if they happen to be the wrong colour or the wrong ethnicity or under the rule of the wrong government.

I'm not going to say you are morally right or wrong.

But just remember, plenty on the other side of conflicts might have pretty good reasons to feel the same about the side you like.

Also remember no empire stays on top forever, pretty much all empires eventually fall and then everybody they did bad stuff for, comes to want to do the same thing to them that they did to others.
 
W54/XM-388 said:
@sirhrmechanic
Basically just admit that you are all good with massacre and genocide and mass killing civilians if its "our side" that does it...
Your statements clearly show you have little to no concern about human life or human suffering of innocent folks caught up in things if they happen to be the wrong colour or the wrong ethnicity or under the rule of the wrong government.

I'm not going to say you are morally right or wrong.

But just remember, plenty on the other side of conflicts might have pretty good reasons to feel the same about the side you like.

Also remember no empire stays on top forever, pretty much all empires eventually fall and then everybody they did bad stuff for, comes to want to do the same thing to them that they did to others.
Click to expand...

Please read this again and then tell us about innocent folks…..
 
From the article:

"Police say they have "multiple" eye-witness accounts of sexual assault, but wouldn't give any more clarification on how many. When we spoke to them, they hadn't yet interviewed any surviving victims."

and

"The BBC has not been able to independently verify this account, and Israeli media reports have questioned some testimony from volunteers working in the traumatic aftermath of the Hamas attacks."

No witness interviews in the article, just hearsay. I am not saying it didn't happen. I am saying that there is a lot propaganda out there that plays to ones feelings and not any facts. Also, still do not understand how Israel allowed this to happen. There is no way they didn't know. It's as if the .gov wanted to happen to so it could push something on its citizens.

www.bbc.com

Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears

The BBC has seen and heard evidence that Hamas fighters committed horrific sexual violence in Israel.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
W54/XM-388 said:
@sirhrmechanic
Basically just admit that you are all good with massacre and genocide and mass killing civilians if its "our side" that does it...
Your statements clearly show you have little to no concern about human life or human suffering of innocent folks caught up in things if they happen to be the wrong colour or the wrong ethnicity or under the rule of the wrong government.

I'm not going to say you are morally right or wrong.

But just remember, plenty on the other side of conflicts might have pretty good reasons to feel the same about the side you like.

Also remember no empire stays on top forever, pretty much all empires eventually fall and then everybody they did bad stuff for, comes to want to do the same thing to them that they did to others.
Click to expand...
Caveat: This is where the written word loses nuances of context that make it difficult to digest without variations in interpretation by multiple readers. Strictly my opinion of course as is everything I type on this forum. With that said, . . .

If you are referring to his post #3477, I did not get that translation (you are all good with massacre and genocide and mass killing civilians if its "our side" that does it...) from his writing.

I see it as facts as best documented from a major war.
Strategic decisions have to be made on how to wage that war based on winning with the least casualties. If you are lucky and in a position to capitalize on more than one choice, you may elect to choose a path that minimizes civilian casualties from the hostile nation as well as minimize loss of life within your own ranks. I think this is what was done.

I understand and most certainly share your concern about taking innocent life in any conflict. It totally sucks balls.

Right or wrong, I also believe that a true war is one where your existence as a nation is threatened justifies doing maximum damage to that nation's infrastructure and general population in an effort to force a capitulation as soon as possible.

I do not use the term "war" lightly.
A true war is brutal and has very little boundaries of aggression when one or both sides are fighting for survival. I don't like the idea of it but I understand it as fact. Desperation and worry usually erases usual moral and ethical norms.
We need to also understand and realize that some cultures have zero moral and ethical boundaries especially when justified by their religion.
Sometimes the other side is the one that sets the pace on such and forces your hand.
If you do not adjust accordingly and insist on "fighting fair" you will only win at greatly higher cost or even lose in the end.

When looked at through the lens of an American citizen, I do not consider Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine theater or Israeli theater as a true war in the context that our land, citizens and sovereignty were being directly threatened. I have friends and family that were KIA in all the above as well as coming home with permanent mental and physical damage, so my comment is not meant to minimize their battles and sacrifice.
Our scale of use of force allowed us to be surgical if we wanted to in those conflicts.

I agree with you that other cultures and empires do not easily forget and all empires fall. Our fall will be fast and severe.
There will be many lined up like vultures to take advantage of our people and our resources.

I do not think Sirhrmechanic likes it or is good with it.
I think he accepts it as a necessary action to get a necessary outcome. All choices were extra shitty with a double dose of shitty icing.

All this typing just to say I took his post in a different vein as you.

Doesn't make me right.
Just thinking out loud while eating lunch.
Have a blessed week.

P.S.: Even this post is likely penned poorly and sucks at conveying my thoughts.
P.P.S: Sirhrmechanic is a grown ass man and I am not trying to speak for him.

T.
 
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W54/XM-388 said:
@sirhrmechanic
Basically just admit that you are all good with massacre and genocide and mass killing civilians if its "our side" that does it...
Your statements clearly show you have little to no concern about human life or human suffering of innocent folks caught up in things if they happen to be the wrong colour or the wrong ethnicity or under the rule of the wrong government.

I'm not going to say you are morally right or wrong.

But just remember, plenty on the other side of conflicts might have pretty good reasons to feel the same about the side you like.

Also remember no empire stays on top forever, pretty much all empires eventually fall and then everybody they did bad stuff for, comes to want to do the same thing to them that they did to others.
Click to expand...

The Israeli's have offered a path out for civilians and told them to get out.

But it was the 'civilians' who kept Hamas in power. Let them build tunnels and rockets instead of hospitals, schools and industry. And taught their kids death to Israel. The same as the Japanese had taught their kids that they were superior and that they should fly planes into ships for their emperor-God. And the Germans taught their jungen it was ok to gas entire populations.

Sorry, but total war is now the rule. Has been pretty much since, well, Sherman. Arguably since Tarlton and his Southern Campaigns in the late 1770's. Civilians make the materials that make industrialized war and so they are not civilians. They are war machines. And war machines are to be destroyed. Because it eliminates the capacity to make war. Be they running drill presses or making bread to feed other war machines.

Maybe we should line conscripts up in linear warfare and shoot with muskets again. But, hey, not going to happen as we have automatic rifles and missiles. Can' tuninvent total war.

So condone killing civilians? No. Not if it can be avoided. But Gaza is filled with people letting themselves be used as shields by the people they voted for. And supported. And rallied behind. And let their kids get raised/indoctrinated by. So they are not civilians. Kids? Sucks, too. Except that a 12-year old with an RPG will kill you as dead as a 25 year old. And guess who is training their kids to use weapons starting as soon as they can hold them. And not to hunt deer. While we teach our kids to cut off their junk, use their thumbs for everything and hate America.

And where is the concern for the Israeli kids and women and children... some of whom were at a damn peace concert and lots of whom are lefty bunny huggers who want to give the Palestinians a homeland. Most of the people killed are basically liberal Israeli's! Not hard liners. They are Hamas huggers... What do you think they were doing at the 'peace concert.' It wasn't about peace in Central America. They were gathered to support %$#@ing Hamas!!! But they were targets of opportunity and Hamas killed them. Just because of what church they go to... And to make a point. When they are indiscriminate, why should anyone give them special treatment?

Sorry for being a hardass. But if I could push a button and instantly erase Gaza and everyone in it from the map... I'd push it in a second and sleep like a baby. Because you know what? If those goat fuckers had the same button and could do it to America or Canada or England or you or me... they'd do it in a second. And then dream of our being slaves in their afterlife.

We are in an existential war against folks who hate us for being economically successful, for having pasty skin, for not worshipping a pedophile prophet, or because some folks' great great great grandfathers bought and sold swarthy people... among other reasons. Oh and these are the very people we have sent billions to (and spent billions on) over the decades... to try and win their friendship (or cooperation) against other existential threats with big nuclear arsenals, funny hats and a penchant for eliminating their own kulaks. Ruining our own economy and taxing our own people out of existance... to give it all away to worthless pieces of shit. In Gaza and Chicago.

Personally, I'd rather we were left alone. But we have a major 5th column in the USA. And existential threats outside it. Determined to destroy our lives and the lives of billions of others. And if we want to avoid destruction, we better all become hardasses. (And that doesn't even start to consider the NGO James Bond Villian types who are funding even more strife to satisfy their own insane ego's or apocalyptic visions for their own Gaia paradise. ) The touchy-feely are going to be the first to go. Civilization has been like that for thousands of years. "Civilization" maybe being too strong a word.

So I'm at the point where I don't give a crap any more about anyone who is supporting terror. 1000 miles of crucified people lining Roman roads sent a decent message. And would make great TV! And since we are currently in a place that is like watching the fall of Rome, (but with free Wifi) I am fine with Pax Americana or Pax Israel (in their sandbox). There was a saying a decade or so ago that "We can't kill our way out of this." You know what? I'd call that a defeatist attitude. Because we haven't tried. Israel may just prove that we can "Kill our way out of this." So I don't have any qualms about watching Israel utterly anihilate every living thing inside Gaza and turn it into a dust bowl for 1000 years. I'd happily piss on the sand as a tribute to the lost tribe of Gaza.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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W54/XM-388 said:
@sirhrmechanic
Basically just admit that you are all good with massacre and genocide and mass killing civilians if its "our side" that does it...
Your statements clearly show you have little to no concern about human life or human suffering of innocent folks caught up in things if they happen to be the wrong colour or the wrong ethnicity or under the rule of the wrong government.

I'm not going to say you are morally right or wrong.

But just remember, plenty on the other side of conflicts might have pretty good reasons to feel the same about the side you like.

Also remember no empire stays on top forever, pretty much all empires eventually fall and then everybody they did bad stuff for, comes to want to do the same thing to them that they did to others.
Click to expand...
There is still a huge difference between accepting civilian casualties or 'collateral damage' in a war about territory and/or resources versus conducting genocidal attacks against other ethnic or faith groups while avoiding a fair fight with the opposing military.

Palestine with its 75% plus support for Hamas deserves to be leveled for the October 7th atrocities like the cities of my ancestors who elected Hitler's NSDAP and then attended the rallies where global war and genocide was promoted. Mitgegangen, mitgefangen, mitgehangen. (Walked with, caught with, hanged with).
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
The Israeli's have offered a path out for civilians and told them to get out.

But it was the 'civilians' who kept Hamas in power. Let them build tunnels and rockets instead of hospitals, schools and industry. And taught their kids death to Israel. The same as the Japanese had taught their kids that they were superior and that they should fly planes into ships for their emperor-God. And the Germans taught their jungen it was ok to gas entire populations.

Sorry, but total war is now the rule. Has been pretty much since, well, Sherman. Arguably since Tarlton and his Southern Campaigns in the late 1770's. Civilians make the materials that make industrialized war and so they are not civilians. They are war machines. And war machines are to be destroyed. Because it eliminates the capacity to make war. Be they running drill presses or making bread to feed other war machines.

Maybe we should line conscripts up in linear warfare and shoot with muskets again. But, hey, not going to happen as we have automatic rifles and missiles. Can' tuninvent total war.

So condone killing civilians? No. Not if it can be avoided. But Gaza is filled with people letting themselves be used as shields by the people they voted for. And supported. And rallied behind. And let their kids get raised/indoctrinated by. So they are not civilians. Kids? Sucks, too. Except that a 12-year old with an RPG will kill you as dead as a 25 year old. And guess who is training their kids to use weapons starting as soon as they can hold them. And not to hunt deer. While we teach our kids to cut off their junk, use their thumbs for everything and hate America.

And where is the concern for the Israeli kids and women and children... some of whom were at a damn peace concert and lots of whom are lefty bunny huggers who want to give the Palestinians a homeland. Most of the people killed are basically liberal Israeli's! Not hard liners. They are Hamas huggers... What do you think they were doing at the 'peace concert.' It wasn't about peace in Central America. They were gathered to support %$#@ing Hamas!!! But they were targets of opportunity and Hamas killed them. Just because of what church they go to... And to make a point. When they are indiscriminate, why should anyone give them special treatment?

Sorry for being a hardass. But if I could push a button and instantly erase Gaza and everyone in it from the map... I'd push it in a second and sleep like a baby. Because you know what? If those goat fuckers had the same button and could do it to America or Canada or England or you or me... they'd do it in a second. And then dream of our being slaves in their afterlife.

We are in an existential war against folks who hate us for being economically successful, for having pasty skin, for not worshipping a pedophile prophet, or because some folks' great great great grandfathers bought and sold swarthy people... among other reasons. Oh and these are the very people we have sent billions to (and spent billions on) over the decades... to try and win their friendship (or cooperation) against other existential threats with big nuclear arsenals, funny hats and a penchant for eliminating their own kulaks. Ruining our own economy and taxing our own people out of existance... to give it all away to worthless pieces of shit. In Gaza and Chicago.

Personally, I'd rather we were left alone. But we have a major 5th column in the USA. And existential threats outside it. Determined to destroy our lives and the lives of billions of others. And if we want to avoid destruction, we better all become hardasses. (And that doesn't even start to consider the NGO James Bond Villian types who are funding even more strife to satisfy their own insane ego's or apocalyptic visions for their own Gaia paradise. ) The touchy-feely are going to be the first to go. Civilization has been like that for thousands of years. "Civilization" maybe being too strong a word.

So I'm at the point where I don't give a crap any more about anyone who is supporting terror. 1000 miles of crucified people lining Roman roads sent a decent message. And would make great TV! And since we are currently in a place that is like watching the fall of Rome, (but with free Wifi) I am fine with Pax Americana or Pax Israel (in their sandbox). There was a saying a decade or so ago that "We can't kill our way out of this." You know what? I'd call that a defeatist attitude. Because we haven't tried. Israel may just prove that we can "Kill our way out of this." So I don't have any qualms about watching Israel utterly anihilate every living thing inside Gaza and turn it into a dust bowl for 1000 years. I'd happily piss on the sand as a tribute to the lost tribe of Gaza.

Cheers,

Sirhr
Click to expand...

Something I might want to offer as food for thought.
What if a very small group are actually the ones pushing all this supposedly existential war?
Follow the money train and you'll probably find your tax dollars funding both the Arabs and the "Palestinians" and in some way or another you are paying for both sides to have weapons.

What would actually be more effective and be more morally correct:
(Spoiler, probably no option would work, hence why even the Antichrist has to fight wars in Israel)

A. Go genocide a couple million people who have grown up their whole lives in essentially a giant concentration camp & have almost no options.
B. Send a few covert assassination squads to eliminate the leaders giving the orders for attacks that are all enjoying the high life in foreign countries maybe even go wack their funders.
C. Do plan B then make a solid contiguous Israel and a solid contiguous fully recognised Arab country for all those not wishing to live in Israel
D. Do plan C then realize also that you aren't going to solve 5000 years of hatred anytime soon and the sand will continue to drink blood in abundance.
E. Since the Europeans love the muslims so much, just buy up Gaza from the muslims and drop each family off in Europe with like a million dollars and tell them to go have fun. (It would actually be cheaper than a decade of payments to both sides as is done now).

Perhaps maybe our being bestest buddies with the crazy Saudis and helping them make their brand of extreme hate Islam become the dominant Islam in the west and middle east was not the best idea...
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
The Israeli's have offered a path out for civilians and told them to get out.

But it was the 'civilians' who kept Hamas in power. Let them build tunnels and rockets instead of hospitals, schools and industry. And taught their kids death to Israel. The same as the Japanese had taught their kids that they were superior and that they should fly planes into ships for their emperor-God. And the Germans taught their jungen it was ok to gas entire populations.

Sorry, but total war is now the rule. Has been pretty much since, well, Sherman. Arguably since Tarlton and his Southern Campaigns in the late 1770's. Civilians make the materials that make industrialized war and so they are not civilians. They are war machines. And war machines are to be destroyed. Because it eliminates the capacity to make war. Be they running drill presses or making bread to feed other war machines.

Maybe we should line conscripts up in linear warfare and shoot with muskets again. But, hey, not going to happen as we have automatic rifles and missiles. Can' tuninvent total war.

So condone killing civilians? No. Not if it can be avoided. But Gaza is filled with people letting themselves be used as shields by the people they voted for. And supported. And rallied behind. And let their kids get raised/indoctrinated by. So they are not civilians. Kids? Sucks, too. Except that a 12-year old with an RPG will kill you as dead as a 25 year old. And guess who is training their kids to use weapons starting as soon as they can hold them. And not to hunt deer. While we teach our kids to cut off their junk, use their thumbs for everything and hate America.

And where is the concern for the Israeli kids and women and children... some of whom were at a damn peace concert and lots of whom are lefty bunny huggers who want to give the Palestinians a homeland. Most of the people killed are basically liberal Israeli's! Not hard liners. They are Hamas huggers... What do you think they were doing at the 'peace concert.' It wasn't about peace in Central America. They were gathered to support %$#@ing Hamas!!! But they were targets of opportunity and Hamas killed them. Just because of what church they go to... And to make a point. When they are indiscriminate, why should anyone give them special treatment?

Sorry for being a hardass. But if I could push a button and instantly erase Gaza and everyone in it from the map... I'd push it in a second and sleep like a baby. Because you know what? If those goat fuckers had the same button and could do it to America or Canada or England or you or me... they'd do it in a second. And then dream of our being slaves in their afterlife.

We are in an existential war against folks who hate us for being economically successful, for having pasty skin, for not worshipping a pedophile prophet, or because some folks' great great great grandfathers bought and sold swarthy people... among other reasons. Oh and these are the very people we have sent billions to (and spent billions on) over the decades... to try and win their friendship (or cooperation) against other existential threats with big nuclear arsenals, funny hats and a penchant for eliminating their own kulaks. Ruining our own economy and taxing our own people out of existance... to give it all away to worthless pieces of shit. In Gaza and Chicago.

Personally, I'd rather we were left alone. But we have a major 5th column in the USA. And existential threats outside it. Determined to destroy our lives and the lives of billions of others. And if we want to avoid destruction, we better all become hardasses. (And that doesn't even start to consider the NGO James Bond Villian types who are funding even more strife to satisfy their own insane ego's or apocalyptic visions for their own Gaia paradise. ) The touchy-feely are going to be the first to go. Civilization has been like that for thousands of years. "Civilization" maybe being too strong a word.

So I'm at the point where I don't give a crap any more about anyone who is supporting terror. 1000 miles of crucified people lining Roman roads sent a decent message. And would make great TV! And since we are currently in a place that is like watching the fall of Rome, (but with free Wifi) I am fine with Pax Americana or Pax Israel (in their sandbox). There was a saying a decade or so ago that "We can't kill our way out of this." You know what? I'd call that a defeatist attitude. Because we haven't tried. Israel may just prove that we can "Kill our way out of this." So I don't have any qualms about watching Israel utterly anihilate every living thing inside Gaza and turn it into a dust bowl for 1000 years. I'd happily piss on the sand as a tribute to the lost tribe of Gaza.

Cheers,

Sirhr
Click to expand...
The US government supports terrorists all over the world. Hell half the world considers the US a terrorist state and I can’t say I blame them. I doubt any other nation’s army has invaded more countries and terrorized/killed more civilians than this one. This doesn’t count all the people who suffer/killed by terror groups, revolutionaries, and proxies funded by american tax dollars. And by your standards, bloods on your hands. You voted for it.
 
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