Hey bpair what charge weight are you running with your 77SMK? Good looking setup there!!
- Thread starter Bakwa
- Start date
24.0gr
Thanks, I've been running TAC at 24.5 with a SMK. Pretty sure that you will find a DMR match or two at K&M Precision rifle Training complex in 2021.
Finally got my SPR/DMR all put together for matches:
Upper Reciever
- BCM M4 Upper Receiver
- BCM BCG MPI Auto
- BCM MCMR 15”
- 18” 1:7 Douglas SPR Contour CLE Match Chamber
- Superlative Arms 0.75” AGB Bleed-Off Solid
- Rifle Length Melonited Gas Tube
- Area 419 1/2-28 Hellfire Adapter
- TBAC DOMINUS-CB
- Upper Receiver face lapped and barrel bedded with Loctite 620
- SBR’ed Lower
- Magpul UBR Gen 2
- Carbine Spring
- H2 buffer
- Larue MBT
- Surefeed Mags
- Badger Ordnance COMM 34mm 20moa Tan
- Badger Ordnance COMM J Arm Tan
- Badger Ordnance COMM Micro Sight Mount Plate
- Aimpoint H2
- Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 MIL-C
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I really like that you face lapped and bedded the barrel to the receiver. In terms of accuracy, how the barrel mates to the receive has always been the only weak point of the AR. Curious what kind of groups you'll manage with that barrel/mate combo.
Only thing I would add to your already insanely nice build is a bubble level or anti-cant device, it starts to make a difference past probably 400 yards. I recently switched to the Accuracy First one. Can't recommend it enough.
Mk12 Mod1 w/ Nightforce NSX 2.5-10x42 mil-R.
Plan on entering some matches in the fall/winter w/it.
Plan on entering some matches in the fall/winter w/it.
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Thanks, man. She’s a joy to shoot.
Thanks, I was pretty surprised how uneven the receiver face was from anodizing. I chose Loctite 620 because it’s a high strength, high temp resistant retaining compound. Specifically designed for bonding cylindrical parts.
Plan on shooting it this Saturday and I’ll report back. The local gun range DMR/SPR matches start next month so hopefully it’ll shoot well enough to be competitive in that match.
I like that pad you put on the Magpul UBR (I'm a huge fan of that butt stock)... does it get in way of the charging handle at all? Looks like its clear of the pull range. I might have to add one of those to mine.
thanks
I'm doing a gasser precision match on my farm this fall and really looking forward to shooting small targets with these gassers. Bunch of my buddies have been building SPRs, 6ARCs, 6.5Gs, etc. so it will be fun to see what they have come up with....
Thanks, got some 1/8” thick foam padding from Michaels and secured it with E6000 glue. It does not get in the way of the CH.
Yeah those 14cents apiece hornady days are long gone imho. I used to shoot them with 24.3 varget in LC brass at 2.25". Super accurate.
This is my SPR/DMR blaster...
Upper:
Vltor MUR-1a
Radian Ambi CH
BCM BCG
BCM KMR-13 Alpha
BCM Keymod Sling Mounts
WOA 18" SPR barrel 1:7 twist
Aero Precision Lo-Pro GB, generic gas tube
PRI QCB
BCM Aluminum Pic Rail
Keymod ARCA mount in the back
Lower:
Aero Gen II Forged Lower
SOLGW LPK
Magpul MOE Trigger Guard
BCM Ambi Safety
Ergo Delux grip
Geissele SSA-E Trigger
BCM A5 Receiver Extension
Vltor A5-H2 buffer (I think) and standard rifle length spring
BCM SOPMOD-MOD 1 stock
Optic/Sighting:
NF ATACR 4-16X42 F1 w/ MIL-R
NF UL 20 MOA Mount - 1.44" height
Midwest Industries offset sights
I built this just before my club stopped shooting regular DMR matches but I did use it in a 2-gun team match last year and I've had some other range trips with it since then. It's a pretty fair dinkum shooter, an absolute hammer with factory match and not too shabby with 55 gr ball up to about 400 yards if the targets are generous (e.g. MGM Flasher Target).
Upper:
Vltor MUR-1a
Radian Ambi CH
BCM BCG
BCM KMR-13 Alpha
BCM Keymod Sling Mounts
WOA 18" SPR barrel 1:7 twist
Aero Precision Lo-Pro GB, generic gas tube
PRI QCB
BCM Aluminum Pic Rail
Keymod ARCA mount in the back
Lower:
Aero Gen II Forged Lower
SOLGW LPK
Magpul MOE Trigger Guard
BCM Ambi Safety
Ergo Delux grip
Geissele SSA-E Trigger
BCM A5 Receiver Extension
Vltor A5-H2 buffer (I think) and standard rifle length spring
BCM SOPMOD-MOD 1 stock
Optic/Sighting:
NF ATACR 4-16X42 F1 w/ MIL-R
NF UL 20 MOA Mount - 1.44" height
Midwest Industries offset sights
I built this just before my club stopped shooting regular DMR matches but I did use it in a 2-gun team match last year and I've had some other range trips with it since then. It's a pretty fair dinkum shooter, an absolute hammer with factory match and not too shabby with 55 gr ball up to about 400 yards if the targets are generous (e.g. MGM Flasher Target).
Stretched the legs on the DMR/SPR build for the first time yesterday. Pretty pleased with the results. Without shooting for groups it grouped consistently around 3/4moa with reman ammo. I don’t doubt the groups will shrink with handloads. Most of them had 3-4 that were sub 1/2moa, and 1 or 2 would open them up to 3/4moa. Ran it out to 520 yards with ease. The bleed off setting on the Superlative Arms gas block is super nice and you can really tell a difference from full open to the bleed off settings.
Really nice rifles. I'm impressed how civilian hot-rodders improve the capability of shooters, rifles, and optics for the farther ranges (300-600/700) but notice they ignore the close-in / fast engagement using the same rifle/scope (sometimes with suppressor) combo.
I suppose the average line-doggy infantryman / SOF shooter should OWN anyone and everything he sees out to 300, but I've been around civilian and military shooters long enough to know that's just not true.
I guess match designers are trying to stress the distant/small target shot, as these guns seem to be getting long and heavy -- certainly more than a triggerman at the squad and ODA level would want when you consider in-house and in-the-village three block war fire and maneuver and cover and concealment. More like self-loader sniper-light, with a belt-o-bags and a tripod.
You can certainly be over-magnified. My first experience with that was my first civilian 3-gun match after coming off two SF assault ODA commands. My brother handed me a loaner AR with a Leupold 3.5-10. Great for any/everything past 150 -- but 25-50 and in, with multiple targets and quick exposures I completely missed (didn't engage) a target around 25 yards from me simply because I swung past it trying to engage a full array of other targets. Ha ha missed / you suck (did not engage) score and time penalties, but I was not pleased with my own performance coming from a duty position where I was paid to do that kind of thing.
By definition a near-ambush is within hand grenade and small arms range -- and some of these rifles are long(er) and heavier than reasonable for the full-spectrum fight from 25 to 600. Probably OK if you're always in the support element and never have to be an assaulter, close-in, or have to fight out of a vehicle.
Grumpy old man -- sure Boomer.
Here's a typical Army combat practice to exercise the whole rifleman concept:
Start at 500, prone, against an E-type. 10 shots in two minutes. Repeat at 400. Here you get maximum benefit from magnification.
At 300, one minute, two five-round magazines prone, but starting 25 yards behind the berm, rush up, and assume firing position and begin shooting. Premium on ability to engage, change mags, and re-assume position and natural point-of-aim.
At 200, again rush the berm and shoot two mags of five in 50 seconds, kneeling. Mid-range magnification will help, long and heavy don't.
At 100, rush the berm and fire one mag standing, one kneeling in 40 seconds. High-end magnification and a heavier rifle are not going to help.
Your last single magazine of ten is shot standing against two booger-eater E-type silhouettes near shoulder-to-shoulder. When it's time to score there have to be five holes in each target -- anything more and the lower hits are dropped, Anything less and those are misses. You get 4 seconds at 75 yards. 3 seconds at 50 yards. Two seconds at 25. Done. Long and heavy rifles suck for shooting close and fast.
An M4 or M16 with an ACOG is the standard (this is an Army course of fire). A Marine M27 or MK12 SPR? Oh HELL YEAH, I'd take that. A 7.62 HK M110A1? The 6X would be great, especially at the longer ranges, but the recoil and recovery in anything but prone is going to be sporting.
Some of the rifles in this thread that almost call for a tripod? Good luck wit dat.
So, not meaning to sound like the fun police, some guys might want to consider balancing nth-degree precision with handling.
Just my 2 cents. I like winning gun games like anyone else -- but I also call bullshit on course designers for straying into live action role playing and saying it's real-world relevant. I've never been to a shooting match where paying contestants get to shoot at each other.
Here's what a formal match looks like (from the 2018 Army Championships, without ACOGs). Imagine this with your DMR/SPR:
I suppose the average line-doggy infantryman / SOF shooter should OWN anyone and everything he sees out to 300, but I've been around civilian and military shooters long enough to know that's just not true.
I guess match designers are trying to stress the distant/small target shot, as these guns seem to be getting long and heavy -- certainly more than a triggerman at the squad and ODA level would want when you consider in-house and in-the-village three block war fire and maneuver and cover and concealment. More like self-loader sniper-light, with a belt-o-bags and a tripod.
You can certainly be over-magnified. My first experience with that was my first civilian 3-gun match after coming off two SF assault ODA commands. My brother handed me a loaner AR with a Leupold 3.5-10. Great for any/everything past 150 -- but 25-50 and in, with multiple targets and quick exposures I completely missed (didn't engage) a target around 25 yards from me simply because I swung past it trying to engage a full array of other targets. Ha ha missed / you suck (did not engage) score and time penalties, but I was not pleased with my own performance coming from a duty position where I was paid to do that kind of thing.
By definition a near-ambush is within hand grenade and small arms range -- and some of these rifles are long(er) and heavier than reasonable for the full-spectrum fight from 25 to 600. Probably OK if you're always in the support element and never have to be an assaulter, close-in, or have to fight out of a vehicle.
Grumpy old man -- sure Boomer.
Here's a typical Army combat practice to exercise the whole rifleman concept:
Start at 500, prone, against an E-type. 10 shots in two minutes. Repeat at 400. Here you get maximum benefit from magnification.
At 300, one minute, two five-round magazines prone, but starting 25 yards behind the berm, rush up, and assume firing position and begin shooting. Premium on ability to engage, change mags, and re-assume position and natural point-of-aim.
At 200, again rush the berm and shoot two mags of five in 50 seconds, kneeling. Mid-range magnification will help, long and heavy don't.
At 100, rush the berm and fire one mag standing, one kneeling in 40 seconds. High-end magnification and a heavier rifle are not going to help.
Your last single magazine of ten is shot standing against two booger-eater E-type silhouettes near shoulder-to-shoulder. When it's time to score there have to be five holes in each target -- anything more and the lower hits are dropped, Anything less and those are misses. You get 4 seconds at 75 yards. 3 seconds at 50 yards. Two seconds at 25. Done. Long and heavy rifles suck for shooting close and fast.
An M4 or M16 with an ACOG is the standard (this is an Army course of fire). A Marine M27 or MK12 SPR? Oh HELL YEAH, I'd take that. A 7.62 HK M110A1? The 6X would be great, especially at the longer ranges, but the recoil and recovery in anything but prone is going to be sporting.
Some of the rifles in this thread that almost call for a tripod? Good luck wit dat.
So, not meaning to sound like the fun police, some guys might want to consider balancing nth-degree precision with handling.
Just my 2 cents. I like winning gun games like anyone else -- but I also call bullshit on course designers for straying into live action role playing and saying it's real-world relevant. I've never been to a shooting match where paying contestants get to shoot at each other.
Here's what a formal match looks like (from the 2018 Army Championships, without ACOGs). Imagine this with your DMR/SPR:
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Really nice rifles. I'm impressed how civilian hot-rodders improve the capability of shooters, rifles, and optics for the farther ranges (300-600/700) but notice they ignore the close-in / fast engagement using the same rifle/scope (sometimes with suppressor) combo.
I suppose the average line-doggy infantryman / SOF shooter should OWN anyone and everything he sees out to 300, but I've been around civilian and military shooters long enough to know that's just not true.
I guess match designers are trying to stress the distant/small target shot, as these guns seem to be getting long and heavy -- certainly more than a triggerman at the squad and ODA level would want when you consider in-house and in-the-village three block war fire and maneuver and cover and concealment. More like self-loader sniper-light, with a belt-o-bags and a tripod.
You can certainly be over-magnified. My first experience with that was my first civilian 3-gun match after coming off two assault SF ODA commands. My brother handed me a loaner AR with a Leupold 3.5-10. Great for any/everything past 150 -- but 25-50 and in, with multiple targets and quick exposures I completely missed (didn't engage) a target around 25 yards from me simply because I swung past it trying to engage a full array of other targets. Ha ha missed / you suck (did not engage) score and time penalties, but I was not pleased with my own performance coming from a duty position where I was paid to do that kind of thing.
By definition a near-ambush is within hand grenade and small arms range -- and some of these rifles are long(er) and heavier than reasonable for the full-spectrum fight from 25 to 600. Probably OK if you're always in the support element and never have to be an assaulter, close-in, or have to fight out of a vehicle.
Grumpy old man -- sure Boomer.
Here's a typical Army combat practice to exercise the whole rifleman concept:
Start at 500, prone, against an E-type. 10 shots in two minutes. Repeat at 400. Here you get maximum benefit from magnification.
At 300, one minute, two five-round magazines prone, but starting 25 yards behind the berm, rush up, and assume firing position and begin shooting. Premium on ability to engage, change mags, and re-assume position and natural point-of-aim.
At 200, again rush the berm and shoot two mags of five in 50 seconds, kneeling. Mid-range magnification will help, long and heavy don't.
At 100, rush the berm and fire one mag standing, one kneeling in 40 seconds. High-end magnification and a heavier rifle are not going to help.
Your last single magazine of ten is shot standing against two booger-eater E-type silhouettes near shoulder-to-shoulder. When it's time to score there have to be five holes in each target -- anything more and the lower hits are dropped, Anything less and those are misses. You get 4 seconds at 75 yards. 3 seconds at 50 yards. Two seconds at 25. Done. Long and heavy rifles suck for shooting close and fast.
An M4 or M16 with an ACOG is the standard (this is an Army course of fire). A Marine M27 or MK12 SPR? Oh HELL YEAH, I'd take that. A 7.62 HK M110A1? The 6X would be great, especially at the longer ranges, but the recoil and recovery in anything but prone is going to be sporting.
Some of the rifles in this thread that almost call for a tripod? Good luck wit dat.
So, not meaning to sound like the fun police, some guys might want to consider balancing nth-degree precision with handling.
Just my 2 cents. I like winning gun games like anyone else -- but I also call bullshit on course designers for straying into live action role playing and saying it's real-world relevant. I've never been to a shooting match where paying contestants get to shoot at each other.
Here's what a formal match looks like (from the 2018 Army Championships, without ACOGs). Imagine this with your DMR/SPR:
Awesome write up. Even as a civilian competitor, I agree with many of your points just based on my perception. But if I may add some perspective to some of the competitions out there.
The precision rifle matches today fall into a bunch of categories from benchrest and F class to PRS and CMP matches. Generally each one is distinct in what skills/rifles are required. The Precision Rifle matches today have certainly evolved (or devolved depending on your perspective) into a game of using barricades of varying stability to create a stable shooting platform. And like any game, there's gamemanship; because a competitor only needs to carry their rifle and equipment for 2 minutes at a time, weight won't affect them as much, but it will affect recoil control and overall stability on various barricades; is this practical in military circles, probably not. There was an attempt by several organizations and many individual matches to force competitors to stop building mobile 6mm tanks by incorporating standing unsupported stages, but alas, this is a game, and that's not the game a lot of those competitors want to play.
There are quite a few matches however, that mimic the Army Marksmanship Match you shared, CMP hosts their high power (service rifle) matches everywhere with them culminating at Camp Perry. Those matches are very, very similar in course of fire to what you described and definitely take a completely unique skillet to be proficient at. Is that style of competition practical for military interest? Well it probably has more overlap than the formerly mentioned PRS style matches, for a variety of reasons, but it's still a game; I've never seen footage of a soldier in a shooting jacket doing slow fire seated while being shot at
lolI love all rifle competitions and think there's always practical skill or at least good ballistic knowledge to be gained from each.
I do not shoot on a flat square range . the place I shoot matches at are up the hill , down the hill and your gonna pack your gear all the way . I have no dreams of winning a national competition I just enjoy learning and improving myself .I retired early two years ago and shooting matches has got up moving around and I now circle my farm carrying my match rifle and gear 2-3 times a week I feel better and have lost over 30lb's , plus Have met some very good people along the way . for me it's not winning or losing ,It's how you play the game .
Uh -- oh, never mind.
Really nice rifles. I'm impressed how civilian hot-rodders improve the capability of shooters, rifles, and optics for the farther ranges (300-600/700) but notice they ignore the close-in / fast engagement using the same rifle/scope (sometimes with suppressor) combo.
I suppose the average line-doggy infantryman / SOF shooter should OWN anyone and everything he sees out to 300, but I've been around civilian and military shooters long enough to know that's just not true.
I guess match designers are trying to stress the distant/small target shot, as these guns seem to be getting long and heavy -- certainly more than a triggerman at the squad and ODA level would want when you consider in-house and in-the-village three block war fire and maneuver and cover and concealment. More like self-loader sniper-light, with a belt-o-bags and a tripod.
You can certainly be over-magnified. My first experience with that was my first civilian 3-gun match after coming off two assault SF ODA commands. My brother handed me a loaner AR with a Leupold 3.5-10. Great for any/everything past 150 -- but 25-50 and in, with multiple targets and quick exposures I completely missed (didn't engage) a target around 25 yards from me simply because I swung past it trying to engage a full array of other targets. Ha ha missed / you suck (did not engage) score and time penalties, but I was not pleased with my own performance coming from a duty position where I was paid to do that kind of thing.
By definition a near-ambush is within hand grenade and small arms range -- and some of these rifles are long(er) and heavier than reasonable for the full-spectrum fight from 25 to 600. Probably OK if you're always in the support element and never have to be an assaulter, close-in, or have to fight out of a vehicle.
Grumpy old man -- sure Boomer.
Here's a typical Army combat practice to exercise the whole rifleman concept:
Start at 500, prone, against an E-type. 10 shots in two minutes. Repeat at 400. Here you get maximum benefit from magnification.
At 300, one minute, two five-round magazines prone, but starting 25 yards behind the berm, rush up, and assume firing position and begin shooting. Premium on ability to engage, change mags, and re-assume position and natural point-of-aim.
At 200, again rush the berm and shoot two mags of five in 50 seconds, kneeling. Mid-range magnification will help, long and heavy don't.
At 100, rush the berm and fire one mag standing, one kneeling in 40 seconds. High-end magnification and a heavier rifle are not going to help.
Your last single magazine of ten is shot standing against two booger-eater E-type silhouettes near shoulder-to-shoulder. When it's time to score there have to be five holes in each target -- anything more and the lower hits are dropped, Anything less and those are misses. You get 4 seconds at 75 yards. 3 seconds at 50 yards. Two seconds at 25. Done. Long and heavy rifles suck for shooting close and fast.
An M4 or M16 with an ACOG is the standard (this is an Army course of fire). A Marine M27 or MK12 SPR? Oh HELL YEAH, I'd take that. A 7.62 HK M110A1? The 6X would be great, especially at the longer ranges, but the recoil and recovery in anything but prone is going to be sporting.
Some of the rifles in this thread that almost call for a tripod? Good luck wit dat.
So, not meaning to sound like the fun police, some guys might want to consider balancing nth-degree precision with handling.
Just my 2 cents. I like winning gun games like anyone else -- but I also call bullshit on course designers for straying into live action role playing and saying it's real-world relevant. I've never been to a shooting match where paying contestants get to shoot at each other.
Here's what a formal match looks like (from the 2018 Army Championships, without ACOGs). Imagine this with your DMR/SPR:
Umm... Okay???
The OP specially asked for DMR/SPR setups for shooting DMR/SPR matches.
There are many types of matches, the different types place emphasis on different scenarios, a SPR/DMR rifle is perfectly acceptable for a SPR/DMR match (which is what this thread is about).
He wasn't asking for a lecture on the trade-offs SPRs/DMRs make for an increase in hit probability beyond 500 yards compared to a general purpose carbine.
He wasn't asking for what would be the most well rounded setup, or how 3 gun setups compare to DMRs/SPRs, or what target distance should be emphasized when setting up a rifle for maximum capability in "real life scenarios".
And the mk12 uses that 3.5-10x Leupold which you didn't like (and would make a horrible choice for 3 gun, which seems to be the shooting you want to discuss).
To be fair, I actually agree with you... I think SPRs/DMRs are overrated (and my first rifle was a proper mk12 clone), and their popularity is outsized relative to their capabilities, but that's a discussion for a different thread.
I run a DPMS recon in PRS. (16 inbarrel, stock I swapped in a AGB to run a suppressor).
Bushnell Elite (3-18X)
Larue QD mount.
Sandman-S on a FH QD mount.
Was running Harris Bipod, The atlas-prs is better for prone, harris deploys faster.
Not fancy, but puts rounds on target Saturday Afternoon.
It does not have a bayonet in case of infantry assualt.
Bushnell Elite (3-18X)
Larue QD mount.
Sandman-S on a FH QD mount.
Was running Harris Bipod, The atlas-prs is better for prone, harris deploys faster.
Not fancy, but puts rounds on target Saturday Afternoon.
It does not have a bayonet in case of infantry assualt.
This is the rig I built for SPR/DMR style shooting. Its a CLE/Seekins 18in upper with an Aero lower with a KAC 2 stage match trigger. Vortex viper gen 2 3-15. Shooting consistently sub moa....Ive never got half moa but always .6-.75.
After a couple sessions I feel confident enough to call it a 5/8” AR. Worst case it opens up to 1 MOA with rapid fire. Controlled shooting it stays 5/8 - 3/4 MOA at 100 yards.
Edit: after re-reading this thread what follows is probably not the most relevant. The last match I did and the ones I will try to attend more moving forward is 5-10k two gun matches which is clearly influencing what I typed out below.
After carrying a mk12 Mod0 for some time (civilian, shit didn’t exist when I was still in) I have slowly been backing down the barrel length and weight.
I went to a 16” RECCE first, then a 14.5” URG-I ~ish build and I have a 10.3 barrel sitting. No doubt, the URG-I is easiest to carry and making hits to 600 isn’t bad on a square range, but it’s no mk12.
When it comes down to it, the RECCE with a custom mid-weigh barrel has been the best of both worlds. It shoots very well to 600 and handles well enough on a square range. (With the can off) Not clear how it would be in CQB but I ran a fucking M249 when I was in Berlin running around Doughboy so everything is better than that pile-o-shit.
Something else I have recently tried is a higher mag LPVO. Too soon to tell, but I’m wondering if we jumped the shark with the 10x on a rifle that may be forced into an assaulter roll. Forget to back off 6-10x and something “pops up” and I’m F’d unless it’s point blank. Problem would be solved with an added red dot, but ultimately it’s one more thing poking off the rifle.
In the end, personally, I’d probably be better off if I stopped building rifles and just train my ass off with one. The money spent building just that URG-I upper would have paid for a Dillon 550 and 1000 rounds of components with money left over for a match or two.
After carrying a mk12 Mod0 for some time (civilian, shit didn’t exist when I was still in) I have slowly been backing down the barrel length and weight.
I went to a 16” RECCE first, then a 14.5” URG-I ~ish build and I have a 10.3 barrel sitting. No doubt, the URG-I is easiest to carry and making hits to 600 isn’t bad on a square range, but it’s no mk12.
When it comes down to it, the RECCE with a custom mid-weigh barrel has been the best of both worlds. It shoots very well to 600 and handles well enough on a square range. (With the can off) Not clear how it would be in CQB but I ran a fucking M249 when I was in Berlin running around Doughboy so everything is better than that pile-o-shit.
Something else I have recently tried is a higher mag LPVO. Too soon to tell, but I’m wondering if we jumped the shark with the 10x on a rifle that may be forced into an assaulter roll. Forget to back off 6-10x and something “pops up” and I’m F’d unless it’s point blank. Problem would be solved with an added red dot, but ultimately it’s one more thing poking off the rifle.
In the end, personally, I’d probably be better off if I stopped building rifles and just train my ass off with one. The money spent building just that URG-I upper would have paid for a Dillon 550 and 1000 rounds of components with money left over for a match or two.
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Update for my gas gun enthusiasts on this thread after a couple recent division wins at my local match with the .223 DMR.
Don't play the game like an open class bolt gun:
1, keep your set up as light as possible, your recoil should already be comparatively low, so take advantage of the fact that, if it's still balanced, it'll be easier to adjust your NPoA while in position.
2, speed is your advantage, take advantage of the fact that you can follow up quickly before even the switchiest wind changes by learning to spot misses and make that easier by running a gridded reticle.
3, Lastly, depending on your caliber, focus on the stages where your caliber shines.. for me, stages with 2 moa targets and/or all targets inside of 700 yards.. if you have stages with ranges outside your caliber or comfort zone, use that time to experiment a bit with maybe a position you wouldn't normally try or a technique and any hits you DO make, consider them bonus for the gas gun division lol
Thanks.
Don't play the game like an open class bolt gun:
1, keep your set up as light as possible, your recoil should already be comparatively low, so take advantage of the fact that, if it's still balanced, it'll be easier to adjust your NPoA while in position.
2, speed is your advantage, take advantage of the fact that you can follow up quickly before even the switchiest wind changes by learning to spot misses and make that easier by running a gridded reticle.
3, Lastly, depending on your caliber, focus on the stages where your caliber shines.. for me, stages with 2 moa targets and/or all targets inside of 700 yards.. if you have stages with ranges outside your caliber or comfort zone, use that time to experiment a bit with maybe a position you wouldn't normally try or a technique and any hits you DO make, consider them bonus for the gas gun division lol
Thanks.
Attachments
It's a barrel tuner from PSD, it helped... A little. I was just telling @FatBoy that it's hard to pinpoint the sweet spot since that particular one is so light, but it helped shrink groups for me on some factory ammo I used to run
@Phatcow I have been kicking around the idea of running the SPR at local PRS matches. I went back and looked at old match booklets and about 75-80% of the targets are between 300-700 yards. I definitely think it would be manageable and more enjoyable than running a hot rodded bolt gun.
I got the Guardian match at GTI in November that I made the decision to run the SPR. There are 3 stages that have unlimited round count and the SPR/DMR would be better suited than a bolt for lugging around the old nuclear facility. It’s about 5lbs lighter than my AI AX.
Local gun club was supposed to start SPR/DMR matches this month, but looks like it got postponed to January.
Ran barricade, tank trap, and cattle gate drills this afternoon. One round per position and move. Also had a 1/4 MOA group at 515yards
I got the Guardian match at GTI in November that I made the decision to run the SPR. There are 3 stages that have unlimited round count and the SPR/DMR would be better suited than a bolt for lugging around the old nuclear facility. It’s about 5lbs lighter than my AI AX.
Local gun club was supposed to start SPR/DMR matches this month, but looks like it got postponed to January.
Ran barricade, tank trap, and cattle gate drills this afternoon. One round per position and move. Also had a 1/4 MOA group at 515yards
That's awesome. Only thing I would add is a shot timer if you have it, or even a cellphone timer would work. I think the biggest game changer for me was practicing getting into position and breaking the first shot within 30 seconds. Also, for me, usually the matches I shoot are 2-3 shots per target and move; that's usually a good thing for us gassers for follow ups on any misses. So having a few targets or positions be at least 2 hits would be great practice too. Otherwise that set up and group looks easily game winning. Let us know how it turns out if you get to run it!
Most of the matches here are also 2-3 shots per position, with different targets. I practice with only shooting a single shot per position to get more reps with building and breaking position to increase my efficiency in building a solid position. In my experience building a solid position quickly and getting the first shot off for that position is the biggest difference in amateurs and pros. Probably should throw some target transitions in there from the same position, might make it 2 per position next weekend. Thanks for the advice @Phatcow !
Most of the SPR/DMR series matches around here are more precision-oriented with points + time formats, so I’d recommend checking how your specific matches will be run and catering any rifle or build towards that.
For me, I go back and forth between DMRish and Recce optics setups on the same gun depending on what I want to do with it:
Rifle
- SanTan billet receiver set
- Aero 15” handguard
- 18” CLE/Criterion SPR .223 barrel
- CLE bolt w/ Bootleg suppressed carrier
- Geissele & JP internals, Magpul furniture, etc.
Optics
- US Optics TS20x w/ JVCR (DMR)
- Burris XTR2 1-8 ffp w/ ballistic circle dot (Recce)
This setup does extremely well with both optics on it. Super soft shooting and accurate with 77gr SMK handloads and is one of the first rifles I always reach for.
For me, I go back and forth between DMRish and Recce optics setups on the same gun depending on what I want to do with it:
Rifle
- SanTan billet receiver set
- Aero 15” handguard
- 18” CLE/Criterion SPR .223 barrel
- CLE bolt w/ Bootleg suppressed carrier
- Geissele & JP internals, Magpul furniture, etc.
Optics
- US Optics TS20x w/ JVCR (DMR)
- Burris XTR2 1-8 ffp w/ ballistic circle dot (Recce)
This setup does extremely well with both optics on it. Super soft shooting and accurate with 77gr SMK handloads and is one of the first rifles I always reach for.
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How much of a difference did it make? And does tuning handloads make it obsolete?
So I got the tuner back when I was shooting a lot of factory - Federal gold medal match 77 gr OTM. My rifle would average about .6-.7 without the barrel tuner... And this is where most of my groups fell even with the tuner. However, there were a couple repeatable settings that completely opened the groups up to over an inch, and a setting or two that brought the groups down to under half an inch...
I personally haven't had time to develop a really good hand load for this rifle and then subsequently try and tune it further with the barrel tuner, but Erik Cortina on YouTube does talk a lot about tuners and I've gained a lot from his knowledge videos.
From my limited experience with barrel tuning, I don't believe tuners make good hand loads obsolete, I think it's more of a honing device for whatever you happen to be shooting. I would think of it like a polishing strap for a blade, you can sharpen a good blade and make it better or you can sharpen a bad blade and make it better; but the bad blade still won't be as sharp as the good blade that's been sharpened. ...if that makes sense..
-Phatcow
Edit, sorry just re-read your comment, I got it backwards about handloads making a barrel tuner obsolete. In short, no. But there's definitely a diminishing return if your hand load is really dialed in. There's a reason a lot of those F-class and Benchrest guys still use them even with their super refined hand loads
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I’ve run EC tuners on my PRS rifles for the last 2 seasons. They certainly have their benefits, particularly when used with factory ammunition or as an aid to proper load development, but they most definitely do not take the place of proper load development.
I absolutely love them on my 6 Creed. I can switch between Federal and Berger factory ammo and adjust the tuner when zeroing. Works great in this application.
I almost find it to be a hinderance when working up loads in my BR because it’s just another factor that needs to be considered. I still use it with great success, I just feel that it’s a little redundant when you take the time to develop a solid load for your gun only to have to adjust the tuner once you do.
Admittedly I’ve used them very little on AR platforms but the few times that I have produced very similar results.
I absolutely love them on my 6 Creed. I can switch between Federal and Berger factory ammo and adjust the tuner when zeroing. Works great in this application.
I almost find it to be a hinderance when working up loads in my BR because it’s just another factor that needs to be considered. I still use it with great success, I just feel that it’s a little redundant when you take the time to develop a solid load for your gun only to have to adjust the tuner once you do.
Admittedly I’ve used them very little on AR platforms but the few times that I have produced very similar results.
Barrel specs? Where is the match at?
18” 1:7 Douglas SPR Contour Compass Lake Engineering Match Chamber. Reciever face is lapped and barrel bedded.
Brock’s Gap was supposed to start monthly SPR/DMR matches this month, but looks like it’s put on hold for a bit.
Im looking to build my first SPR for matches and training courses with the after thought of a SHTF. I know its opening a can of worms becuase everyone is different. I just want to be able to learn at training and be competitive in a match. Picking the right caliber is my hard part. What do training courses like hatcreek or ridgeline or CR2 recommend you use for their SPR/DMR courses? I used to shoot FTR with my bolt gun so I dont really know what Im getting myself into. Is Wylde the way to go and then build the rifle with a CLE barrel and Rifle gas system? Is a different caliber worth looking at?
Given your parameters I’d choose a .223 carbine, I mentioned some reasons why I’d choose a .223/5.56 earlier in the thread as it applies to DMR matches. Those reasons can also carry over to training and ”SHTF” scenarios because you can carry a lot of .223 and it’s still cheaper than .308/6.5 CM/etc…. I would recommend .223 Wylde because it works as an AR-15 barrel chamber, it’ll shoot .223 REM and 5.56 NATO match ammo well.
It’s hard to go wrong with a CLE barrel, they have the reputation that they do for a reason. Since this is supposedly a “do-all” rifle, I’d recommend a 16” ML gas barrel, you’ll still have plenty of velocity to hit targets at 600 yards while still keeping the package nimble. A pretty good recipe for an all purpose rifle is below, it’s not the end all be all of lists but if you know what you’re doing you’ll be able to hang in DMR matches, do carbine training, and have a decent package when society folds up.
16” CLE ML 1:7 twist .223 Wylde
BCM MCMR 13” rail
Vltor MUR-1a
BCM BCG
a good forged lower
BCM grip
Geissele SSA-E
BCM SOPMOD MOD 1 stock
Vortex Gen III 1-10
quality one piece mount
Offset folding iron sights
Thanks. I was only thinking 18in to be able to use the heavier 69gr or 72 to get that extra umph at distance. And Then running rifle gas system to keep it as smooth as possible for follow up shots. I would rather have a nice accurate upper for matches and training and then maybe build a second upper with shorter barrel etc for the home defense. Maybe thats wrong though. I tend to over think everything.
It's my experience that the performance gap between my 16" Recce and 18" SPR pushing 55 gr FMJ and 77 gr SMK's is minor, bordering on negligible. Pretty much the only reason I'm still using the 18" SPR is the damn barrel just shoots so good.
What gas block are you using and how is the clearance? I have a 15” mk16 I was thinking of using on a SPR build but worried about the slim ID.
I’m using a Mk16 with an SLR non adjustable underneath. .750 with enough clearance.
Finally got around to developing a load for mine. I loaded up a 5 load test series with 5 rounds each. Most of the five shot load development groups were ~3/4” with only two being sub 3/4”. Gold 24.1grs (5/8”) and Black 24.7grs (1/2”). Settled on 24.7grs and loaded up (200). Maybe when I get some more time I’ll play with seating depth to see if I can’t fine tune it more.
After some setbacks our first DMR match will be in January and I am really looking forward to running this setup.
Virgin Lapua Brass
Federal 205 SRP
VV N140 24.7grs (compressed)
77gr SMK
COAL 2.275”
Average 2758fps SD 13.1fps ES 35fps
After some setbacks our first DMR match will be in January and I am really looking forward to running this setup.
Virgin Lapua Brass
Federal 205 SRP
VV N140 24.7grs (compressed)
77gr SMK
COAL 2.275”
Average 2758fps SD 13.1fps ES 35fps
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Nothing wrong with that................VV 140 is good stuff; 540 is mo' betta', IMHO if you have a chance to get any & try it.
MM
MM
Did this match happen? Says you're from VA so close to me in MD.
To much good info in this one for it to be buried so deep.
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Local DMR match set for April 10th.
Will be running an 18” Rainier Ultramatch Barrel, 1-7T, 223W with an OSS Helix 762 QD. NF ATACR 4-16x42 with a Holosun 509T offset. Should zero the red dot Saturday.
So far its been a great system to shoot, really enjoying this rifle.
Will be running an 18” Rainier Ultramatch Barrel, 1-7T, 223W with an OSS Helix 762 QD. NF ATACR 4-16x42 with a Holosun 509T offset. Should zero the red dot Saturday.
So far its been a great system to shoot, really enjoying this rifle.
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