SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

[Suasponte]

I have had lots of people ask me why people have voted "No" to the Testimonial thread Poll <span style="text-decoration: underline">"Does SS media clean better than Ultra Sonic"</span>. I have never in the past year and a half had anyone pm me or tell me why they voted that way.

So, in fairness I would like to hear from those that voted no and there reason why they did.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Please, do not bash anyone for there reasoning</span>.</span> Lets keep this soley for those who have their reasons, and learn something.

Also, just to cover some stuff in several PM's lately.

Neither Suasponte (Terry) or Mark are associated with said Web site.

Thanks, and I look forward to your responses.

Terry

 

[nhm16]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

My only dislike of the stainless method is that it slightly roughs up the case mouths, and I have to a do a little cleanup if I leave it in the tumbler too long (more than 3-3.5 hours). Otherwise it's awesome. I would imagine that you don't have that problem with ultrasonic.

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

What sort of power (torque?) does a barrelling machine require for ammunition ? I've found some commercial options used for jewellery (3lbs / 5lbs) at more affordable prices ($110) and wondered if they are a suitable alternative ? Also, i note Fine SS media is available for $25 for 500g...is that comparable in price to what is being used here ?

 

[bohem]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What sort of power (torque?) does a barrelling machine require for ammunition ? I've found some commercial options used for jewellery (3lbs / 5lbs) at more affordable prices ($110) and wondered if they are a suitable alternative ? Also, i note Fine SS media is available for $25 for 500g...is that comparable in price to what is being used here ? </div></div>

I got a cheap tumbler from Harbor Freight for under $40 and it's still working after about 8 months of constant use. It has a "6 lb" capacity according to the box.

My functional limits are:

appx 60pcs of 30-06 cases
appx 80 pcs of 308 cases
appx 125 pcs of 223 cases
appx 125 pcs of 44 mag
appx 150 pcs of 357
appx 350 pcs of 9, 40, 45

Limits above are assuming that I'm using both little cans at a full fill of ~ 3lbs each (mix of brass and SS media)

The $25/500g media is appx $22/lb whereas Mark is able to deliver 5lbs for ~ $50 in the US. Internationally I'm not sure what it would cost.

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

Thanks, that's very helpful

 

[SPAK]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

I'm not a no voter, but I just bought the ultrasonic setup and will give it a try before going SS.

Mostly for the time factor. From what I've read, using citranox it shouldn't take more than 1 hour total to clean up the cases assuming I don't clean more than 50 cases or so at a time.

I think if I cleaned more cases at one time I would have definitely gone with the SS and the tumbler.

However, the nice thing about using a tumbler is you can throw your brass in there, leave it and go do something else while it cleans.

We'll see what happens with the ultrasonic. If it's not up to what I need it to do, I'll try the ss method for sure.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

So after trying an Ultrasonic setup and then a Thumler's with Stainless media, I'm definitely in the camp that prefers the Ultrasonic.

Here are my reasons:
-I am definitely experiencing peening on my case mouths. It is very apparent with Giraud trimmed bottleneck cases as the trimmer leaves a very thin VLD edge on the front of the case. With minimal case expansion and a run through the Giraud trimmer again, you lose a bit of length from the peening and are not able to touch up the case mouths.

-The stainless dulls the various edges on the case including the sharp base lip on my Lapua cases. I prefer the sharp lip as it aids in reliable extraction.

-I clean about eighty 243 or 308 cases for a 3-4 hour run with the stainless in the Thumler Model B. I get about 75 cases with my ultrasonic clean in about 45 minutes. I can get more cases cleaned in a shorter time with my ultrasonic setup.

-You will get stuck pieces in the neck area with the stainless media. You have to pull this out and it is a bit of a headache.

-Stainless media is a bit of a pain in the butt to handle. I find myself needing to use the magnet in various places (including the sink) to not have it go down the drain. Sometimes, those buggers float so they will pour right out! It also sticks to your hands which sometimes presents an issue as well.

-Even with careful handling and inspection, I can see the risk of a rogue piece of steel media left or stuck in a case that inadvertently is fired through my match barrel causing damage. Since I'm only dealing with liquid chemicals with the ultrasonic, there is no risk of a foreign object getting into the barrel.

And for the record, I have a real quality ultrasonic setup which probably gives me a bit better performance. I use a Crest 275D professional ultrasonic with thin Kimax beakers and Citranox solution. I run cases in a heated solution (40 deg C) for 45 minutes and then rinse everything out. The cases are clean outside, inside, and in the primer pocket. I will admit the outside of the cases look better with the stainless media but there is the only place where I see stainless having an advantage. The ultrasonic actually does a better job inside the case, especially with cases like the 243 Win.

Of course that is only my experience. You experience may vary. I'm always open to new ideas to address any of the above problems if there are viable solutions to them.

 

[winxp_man]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

After I was a witness to what a ultrasonic cleaner does to the case inside and outside all in for the ultrasonic cleaner.

What you do is go to Harbor Freight if one is near you and get the US Cleaner, and go to a Natural food store and grab some citric powder acid. Go home and fill the tank with warm water then dump about 2-3 table spoons of the citric acid and a couple of drops of dish soap. Then run it for about 15 minutes and call it a day. After you see what the cases will look like you will never go back to media crap. Also you will never have to clean a primer pocket again. The case will sparkle on the inside like a new case.

HF Ultrasonic Cleaner- 69.99 (this model at cabelas is around 99.00-120.00 Plus shipping)

Citric acid was about 10 bucks but will last for quite some time.

Dish soap priceless if wife or girlfriend (or even the guy

) does the dishes.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

I have been using the stainless steel method for quite awhile now. Although I like the process and the results, case mouth peening has been problematic. Now that I use a Girard trimmer, it is even more apparent because of the finer chamfered edge.

It is because of this problem, that I am considering a change over to ultrasonic.

 

[vman]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

Can someone explain to me exactly what peening does/is and what occurs at the case mouth?

 

[CardiacKid]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

There's a good photo of it in the stainless media thread. Basically the case mouth in that photo looks like it's had hail damage on a very tiny scale - there's little bumps and indentations on the small amount of brass on the edge of the case mouth (think tiny golf ball texture all along the rim). Like others mentioned, if it occurs and you've already prepped the brass, you're back to having a very inconsistent case mouth. So far I haven't had any issues with it on my tumbler, but the photo posted in the stainless thread can't lie. There's too many variables to say whether or not it's going to happen all the time or none of the time, but for those wanting to eliminate a variable or possible by-product of stainless tumbling their argument makes perfect sense in favor of the US method.

Edit to add: Sorry, didn't describe what caused it. The majority's consensus is that it's a combination of the tumbling action, stainless pins and brass hitting the case mouths over time in the rotary tumbler with more force than one would find in a vibratory tumbler. With US cleaning there is no impact between a media type (since it's liquid), individual cases hitting (since they are stationary) or any type of movement (rotary/vibratory) and thus no peening.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

So what if the mouths are peened a little, I have a Giraud trimmer, I also have a US machine that big enough to fit a M4 upper in, it will do 500 308 at time, I still perfer SS

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

" it shouldn't take more than 1 hour total to (ultrasonic) clean up the cases assuming I don't clean more than 50 cases or so at a time."

I hope for your sake I'm wrong but I think you are going to be disappointed with how many cases you can clean at once and how much personal attention the US will demand to work at all. I find I can get about as good a job with a simple hour soak in white vinegar.

(I've done all the surgically clean US cases I want to. Since there was no difference on target, all my brass goes in the vib tumbler again.)

 

[vman]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

Thanks Cardiac

Doesnt sound like its a dangerous scenario

 

[Clark]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

Tumblers get them as clean as new, and as in need of case prep [peened] at new.
So it is obvious that the brass manufacturers are tumbling before selling.

Ultra sonic is good for cleaning brushes.
I will never clean another case with it.
I have everything they used in the 6mmBR article, and it can work, it is just more trouble than buying new clean brass.

 

[Known]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattmcg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So after trying an Ultrasonic setup and then a Thumler's with Stainless media, I'm definitely in the camp that prefers the Ultrasonic.

Here are my reasons:
-I am definitely experiencing peening on my case mouths. It is very apparent with Giraud trimmed bottleneck cases as the trimmer leaves a very thin VLD edge on the front of the case. With minimal case expansion and a run through the Giraud trimmer again, you lose a bit of length from the peening and are not able to touch up the case mouths.

</div></div>

I just got my SS media setup with Thumblers model B. I use a Giraud trimmer and if the case doesn't expand enough between firings, the Giraud will only clean up the inside of the mouth. I'm still having to deal with a burr on the outside of the mouth manually. I have not experienced this issue with pistol brass so SS media is GTG with pistol brass IMHO.

I may give the ultrasonic a try and tell the wife I bought it to clean her jewelry.

 

[sniperghost]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

Here is a video that I did last year. I only have one case in only for the video, but I usually clean about 16 at a time.
I also have a SS media cleaner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgy08C9ynkA

Christian

 

[Known]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: negotiator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a video that I did last year. I only have one case in only for the video, but I usually clean about 16 at a time.
I also have a SS media cleaner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgy08C9ynkA

Christian </div></div>

Wow! What model of cleaner do you have?

 

[sniperghost]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sacshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: negotiator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a video that I did last year. I only have one case in only for the video, but I usually clean about 16 at a time.
I also have a SS media cleaner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgy08C9ynkA

Christian </div></div>

Wow! What model of cleaner do you have? </div></div>


I use an older version of Eumax ultrasonic

Here is the link: http://www.eumax-cleaner.com/en/product.asp?id=15

 

[Known]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

Took a quick look at some new Lapua and Winchester brass and noticed the same neck peening - this is consistent with what other folks are seeing. For now I will do brass prep after cleaning and chamfer the outside of the neck. I'll consider the extra manual step as a tradeoff for cleaner brass.

As far as ultrasonic goes, I'm going to save up and get an idustrial model like the Crest and see how that works. Even if I decide not to use it for brass, there will be many other things I can clean with it.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: SS media better than Ultra-Sonic "No Voters"

It looks exactly like the mouths of new cases, I have said that for a long time.

The issue is that if you do it after each reloading AND trim to minimum length, it will eventually peen the case mouth to an OAL shorter than minimum where the Giraud can't get it anymore without adjusting it down.

The rounding (peening) can cause pressure variations depending on the tightness of the neck portion of your chamber and the thickness of the case necks. I have measure them with the pressure trace unit. And it's easy to know which case are the problem ones. Just take a fired case and slip a bullet in to the mouth and you can feel the resistance. Sometimes it's very tight. But again, this will depend on your chamber and the thickness of the necks on your brass.

I use ultrasonic until the cases grow enough that I have to trim. Then I clean with the SS media. I think it does a better job and I like the way that it polishes out any scratches on the case and makes them nice a smooth. They size better afterwards. But, I don't want to have to deal with that rounding (burr) each time I load them.