What kind of times are you guys using what you tumble brass? im doing 4 hours and still have dirty primer pockets not completely dirty just the triangle of the primer.
thank you
joe
thank you
joe
- Thread starter Suasponte
- Start date
I would never go back to a vibratory tumbler. They don't get the brass clean, regardless of how good somebody thinks it looks when it's done in walnut or corn cobb. Been using the stainless pins for about 2.5 years I think. Never going back.
Some brand's of primer's leave a residue no matter what you do.
Some clean right up in 2 hour's.
I go two hours, 1oz of Ivory and a 9mm case of Lemishine.
How long are you guys tumbling that you are seeing case mouth damage.
I did a test a long time ago with Lapua brass prepped ready to go. I tumbled for 6 hours checking the
case mouths with a 30x jewelers luope and did not notice any damage.
Terry
How long are you guys tumbling that you are seeing case mouth damage.
I did a test a long time ago with Lapua brass prepped ready to go. I tumbled for 6 hours checking the
case mouths with a 30x jewelers luope and did not notice any damage.
Terry
Usually it is just Winchester new ammo, seems the factory primers really leave a tough residue.
Let it soak overnight, then tumble for 1 hour and see how it looks. I prefer to soak than run several hours and risk peening.
What I have been doing for years is to get a Lee Hand press die with the Decapping die and punch your primers out at the range.
Take a 2 litre bottle or old mild jug and fill with the Ivory/Lemishine mixture. Put your brass into the jug and drive home.
The longer the carbon has to harden the harder it is to remove. This has worked really well for me and I have been doing it for many
years.
Terry
Take a 2 litre bottle or old mild jug and fill with the Ivory/Lemishine mixture. Put your brass into the jug and drive home.
The longer the carbon has to harden the harder it is to remove. This has worked really well for me and I have been doing it for many
years.
Terry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not trying to be a naysayer, but have a few honest questions concerning SS Media Tumbling.
1) Does anyone not remember Chemistry 101 where you put a piece of copper and brass in citric acid to watch it 'dezinc'? Could this be the reason why a lot of people are ending up with Orange or Brown cases? What about being brittle after a few cleanings? Is that not a concern?
</div></div>
I'm a chemist by degree, but haven't worked in the field for some years, but I don't think there's much to worry about at these concentrations. It's probably less than a gram of citric acid in a gallon of water, plus, you need two metals with sufficient electronegativity difference for a redox reaction as you describe and stainless just ain't that active (by design) as an anode/cathode in this case. <b> Mostly the citric acid just raises the pH slightly to "soften" tap water. </b>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2) Has anyone filtered the water coming from their rotary tumbler to see how much brass is removed? A simple coffee filter will do!
</div></div>
I haven't actually filtered and weighed, but I'm sure there is a measurable amount of brass particles getting rubbed off the cases as can be seen here on a freshly uncapped gasket:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The reason I bring up these two points is because I have long been familiar with 'alternative' methods of cleaning brass. One of the rules of thumb is never use citric acid! Citric acid will cause corrosion of the brass and cause it to become brittle. This compromises the integrity of the 'SAAMI Spec' case!
</div></div>
I just got the STM kit, but I've been using citric acid in my ultrasonic for quite some time now and I have some Lapua .308 cases on their 8th reloading and show no signs of embrittlement, etc. (I anneal every 4th firing and only collet neck size). I just don't think you're going to damage brass at these concentrations.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Furthermore, SS media is used in the casting industry to debur castings. I have seen it used at a local foundry, and the castings are actually cast at .010" OVER spec to allow for changes due to the media deburring process. When the casts come out they are to spec!
Again, I'm not trying to piss on the thread. I'm just looking for some serious answers and studies. "Because it works!" isn't a valid reason for me to try it. I have some serious concerns about the ways these cases are cleaned.
My main concerns are about the elasticity of the brass after several cleanings, and the pressure sensitivity after only a few firings.
Your input is appreciated. </div></div>
I've only had the STM kit for 4 days, but I'm already having serious doubts about the process.
I know this is an old post, but my OCD just couldn't be suppressed! Adding citric acid should LOWER the pH! : ) lol I don't know how adding sodium laureth sulfate (soap) would affect things though.
Soap keep's the dirt in suspension so it's easy to dump out.
Adding soap to the mixture is adding the surfactant to suspend the carbon molecules that have been dislodged from the brass during the cleaning.
Without the soap (Surfactant) the carbon will rebond to the brass and you will get gun metal colored brass.
As for the brass particals you see one the case lid after cleaing. That brass is mostly from the loose pucnhings around the primer hole and is
actually a good thing to see go away. If you uniform your primer pockets and tumble you will not see this occuracne as you have removed that
loose material. Walnut and corn cod media are not capable of doing this.
I tumbled a marked 308 case in every batch for seveal months weighing the dried case after it was dry and recoeding the weight.
This was performed on a Denver Instrument MXX-123 scale and I did not see any change in the case weight.
Seeing how most reloaders do not exceed more than 10 loads on their cases this phenomenon is nothing to worry about.
There will always be both sides to a coin, and I happen to be on the SS media side. As for the fact that this thread has been on the first
page of the reloading page for over three years without being Stickied should be a testimonial in itself. Also, the fact that 3 1/2 years ago the only
people that knew about this cleaning system was Mark, Myself and a few close friends.
Now, almost every reloading supplier is selling this system.
Also, look at multiple other gun forums. They too have threads regarding the SS media cleaning system all with many view and replys.
After you open the drum for the first time and reach in and pull out "FULLY CLEAN" cases you will know you have made the right move.
Terry
Without the soap (Surfactant) the carbon will rebond to the brass and you will get gun metal colored brass.
As for the brass particals you see one the case lid after cleaing. That brass is mostly from the loose pucnhings around the primer hole and is
actually a good thing to see go away. If you uniform your primer pockets and tumble you will not see this occuracne as you have removed that
loose material. Walnut and corn cod media are not capable of doing this.
I tumbled a marked 308 case in every batch for seveal months weighing the dried case after it was dry and recoeding the weight.
This was performed on a Denver Instrument MXX-123 scale and I did not see any change in the case weight.
Seeing how most reloaders do not exceed more than 10 loads on their cases this phenomenon is nothing to worry about.
There will always be both sides to a coin, and I happen to be on the SS media side. As for the fact that this thread has been on the first
page of the reloading page for over three years without being Stickied should be a testimonial in itself. Also, the fact that 3 1/2 years ago the only
people that knew about this cleaning system was Mark, Myself and a few close friends.
Now, almost every reloading supplier is selling this system.
Also, look at multiple other gun forums. They too have threads regarding the SS media cleaning system all with many view and replys.
After you open the drum for the first time and reach in and pull out "FULLY CLEAN" cases you will know you have made the right move.
Terry
Last edited:
Hey zuke and Suasponte. Good point on the surfactant quality of the soap. I have a thumler tumbler on order and got the pins from midway today. I plan on using the soap and lemishine formula.
My musings of the soap in suspension with the citric acid was geared toward how the Sodium atom disassociates and recombines with the Citrate to form sodium citrate. I wasn't sure how that would affect pH. Either way, I'm not concerned with acids effect, just academically curious about the chemistry with soaps and acid.
Its good to hear the results of your experiment on the brass weight.
One question I do have is does the pin tumbling cosmetically kind of "shot peen" the case head? From the pictures I see it seems to have a changed appearance, but I've never seen a tumbled case in person yet. I'm not worried about it's effects, but am wondering if my eyes arn't playing tricks on me.
My musings of the soap in suspension with the citric acid was geared toward how the Sodium atom disassociates and recombines with the Citrate to form sodium citrate. I wasn't sure how that would affect pH. Either way, I'm not concerned with acids effect, just academically curious about the chemistry with soaps and acid.
Its good to hear the results of your experiment on the brass weight.
One question I do have is does the pin tumbling cosmetically kind of "shot peen" the case head? From the pictures I see it seems to have a changed appearance, but I've never seen a tumbled case in person yet. I'm not worried about it's effects, but am wondering if my eyes arn't playing tricks on me.
A lot of guys say that it peens the case neck and therefore prep the case necks last. I only tumble for a couple hours and do it prior to all my prep work thus I
do not worry in reagrds to the peening. I have not noticed any peening of the case head.
There is no impacting that would cause that. The cases are suspended in water along with the pins, what impact would cause peening?
Terry
do not worry in reagrds to the peening. I have not noticed any peening of the case head.
There is no impacting that would cause that. The cases are suspended in water along with the pins, what impact would cause peening?
Terry
I think this was similar to the picture that I was thinking of. However, after searching for an example of what I thought I saw, I think I answered my own question. I thought I saw in a side-by-side comparison that the stainless pin case heads were a little more scratched but I think it was just poor photography or lighting. My reasoning was that maybe the pins hitting a flat surface would cause a different effect. Even if they did however, I figured it would be cosmetic only on the case head.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g435/Woodys556/brass2.jpg
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g435/Woodys556/brass2.jpg
If anyone want's to know how the pin's work it's real simple.
Pour the pin's in a tumbler tub or other container and add water three time's that height.
Put your hand in the pin's and feel them. Now start moving your hand while in the pin's, in a circular motion. Do that for a full minute and you'll know what it feel's like and how it work's.
Another thing I just found about Lemmishine is to put a scoup into as hot as water as you can get then add really black brass. Leave overnight and the next day tumble as normal. That usually bring's back the brass colour.Great way to be able to use rare/hard to find brass.
Pour the pin's in a tumbler tub or other container and add water three time's that height.
Put your hand in the pin's and feel them. Now start moving your hand while in the pin's, in a circular motion. Do that for a full minute and you'll know what it feel's like and how it work's.
Another thing I just found about Lemmishine is to put a scoup into as hot as water as you can get then add really black brass. Leave overnight and the next day tumble as normal. That usually bring's back the brass colour.Great way to be able to use rare/hard to find brass.
Hi Everyone
Ive been trying to read up on Stainless Tumbling and found this thread.
Where is everyone getting there Stainless Media and Tumbler ?
Also is there a guide on how to do this process ?
Thanks
Allen
Ive been trying to read up on Stainless Tumbling and found this thread.
Where is everyone getting there Stainless Media and Tumbler ?
Also is there a guide on how to do this process ?
Thanks
Allen
My buddy and I got our media from Cabelas. He was going there anyway and had some points on his card.
I got my tumbler at an auction. Its the Thumler's Tumbler 140. It is dirty and has some rust where the paint wore through but I only paid $50 for it.
My procedure is this:
1. Media in tumbler
2. 1/3 to 1/2 gallon zip-lock bag of .223 brass
3. Fill with water to less than an inch from the top.
4. Squirt of Dawn dish soap. If you add the soap before the water it foams up.
5. Sprinkle of Lemi Shine, maybe a heaping teaspoon if I had to guess.
6. Put lid on and tumble for 4 hours.
7. Drain and refill with water 2 or 3 times to get majority of the dirty water out. Be careful to not dump brass or media out of the tumbler.
8. Dump everything into case separator.
9. Fill case separator with water.
10. Spin case separator 20-30 times to separate media and brass and also rinse brass with clean water.
11. Rinse brass under running tap to remove soap residue.
12. Spread brass out on towel and let dry for 24-48 hours. My buddy puts his on an old cookie sheet and bakes them in the oven for 30-45 minutes at 150 degrees.
I got my tumbler at an auction. Its the Thumler's Tumbler 140. It is dirty and has some rust where the paint wore through but I only paid $50 for it.
My procedure is this:
1. Media in tumbler
2. 1/3 to 1/2 gallon zip-lock bag of .223 brass
3. Fill with water to less than an inch from the top.
4. Squirt of Dawn dish soap. If you add the soap before the water it foams up.
5. Sprinkle of Lemi Shine, maybe a heaping teaspoon if I had to guess.
6. Put lid on and tumble for 4 hours.
7. Drain and refill with water 2 or 3 times to get majority of the dirty water out. Be careful to not dump brass or media out of the tumbler.
8. Dump everything into case separator.
9. Fill case separator with water.
10. Spin case separator 20-30 times to separate media and brass and also rinse brass with clean water.
11. Rinse brass under running tap to remove soap residue.
12. Spread brass out on towel and let dry for 24-48 hours. My buddy puts his on an old cookie sheet and bakes them in the oven for 30-45 minutes at 150 degrees.
Here's a question, do any of you guys use these types of rotary tumblers to clean the lube off of sized/deprimed brass? I was thinking about doing this once I get the tumbler. Perhaps just water, soap, and maybe some strips of old wash rags? (to eliminate the need to mess with pins further). I also wondered if anyone notices that tumbling the lube off WITH pins may remove the burr left on the case neck after trimming?
I use the RCBS Water soluble case lube with the pad. After sizing I use a old windex bottle with Water / Lemishine sprayed on the rag to wipe the case lube off the cases.
I bigger volumes I use a vibratory tumbler with fine corn cob with a few sprays of the Water / Lemishine mixture. Tumble 10-15 minutes and they are lubricant free.
Terry
I bigger volumes I use a vibratory tumbler with fine corn cob with a few sprays of the Water / Lemishine mixture. Tumble 10-15 minutes and they are lubricant free.
Terry
I use LEE lube,also water based.
Size then a 10 minute ride in the tumbler and their done.
Size then a 10 minute ride in the tumbler and their done.
Well after finding this thread and reading it over the course of about a week I had to do it and am glad I did. I have to say that opening your first batch of stainless tumbled brass is like the first time you look thru 3rd gen night vision...eveyone has the same comment...GOD DAMN!!!!! Couldn't be easier...like one of the other guys on this thread I have to wonder why the 16% {or there abouts} say no????? Here are few things or tips I have for anyone contemplating this...if you are really chomping at the bit to get a "Model B High Speed" call Facets in Newport, Oregon. {www.4facets.com/} She is a very nice lady and has them in stock right now, well as of 5 days ago when I ordered mine anyways. The McFeely's plastic knobs are definately a good thing as are the little rare earth magnet pack they sell. Lots of uses for the magnets besides picking up stainless pins. The only problem with the knobs is that they sent the wrong size, or I ordered the wrong size. I took part numbers off this thread but got 1 3/4" diameter instead of the needed 1 3/8" I believe it is an issue with their website as it shows both sizes for the same part number. I took it as a misprint, either way I got the wrong knobs. FWIW Midway USA stainless pins are magnetic {no, I didnt buy them from top secret squirrel no name if I told ya I'd have ta kill ya dude} I am sure he's a really nice guy but I had a gift card and he is entirely too undercover and top secret to accept one of those, so I didn't even bother the cat. Bottom line: this is T.H.E. best way to clean or refurbish brass for reloading, period end of story, and to the nay sayers...please, by all means stay stupid!!!!
Last edited:
She had them in stock you mean!! LOL Bet they don't last a week now that you revealed it.
I have been using the SS Media for well on 7 years now and still am amazed how well it works.
Got a set of dies in with a bunch of stuff that I got at a estate sale that was pretty sad. Being that I had
nothing to lose I tossed them in the SS Media, with Ivory soap and a 40 S&W case of the magic powder. Let them
tumble for 4 hours and they came out as you would expect Factory New. Well as good as I would want them.
Terry
I have been using the SS Media for well on 7 years now and still am amazed how well it works.
Got a set of dies in with a bunch of stuff that I got at a estate sale that was pretty sad. Being that I had
nothing to lose I tossed them in the SS Media, with Ivory soap and a 40 S&W case of the magic powder. Let them
tumble for 4 hours and they came out as you would expect Factory New. Well as good as I would want them.
Terry
Wow...funny you should mention old dies cause I just "inherited" a whole ass load of less that stellar appearing ones. I will definately give it a go. One other tip I left out in the last post...when I got the tumbler today and came home at lunch time to get the first batch rolling. I unpacked it and thought for a few minutes they shorted me the belt. The box didn't appear to have ever been opened, but the belt wasn't there. The whole problem was I hadn't yet put a good enough cussin' on it, as I soon found it on the floor. The new belts are a shitty little clear rubber ring that camo'ed to the floor. It was just sort of thrown in the box, almost like they wanted to have a good laugh {knowing it would filp away} at some idiot yellin' and pissin' because they forgot the belt.
Interesting thing about Lemi-Shine...I was able to take some not too bad once fired LC 5.56 in hot water, teaspoon of Lemi-Shine and 2 teaspoons Dawn Ultra, mix it all around with just my hands for maybe 2 minutes and have the cases look better than they do being vibrated over night. You cant beat a vibrator for "some things" but cleaning brass isn't one of them. Hats off to the no name, unspeakable, TS/SCI with every ticket possible, ultra crypto intelligence agent that has made so many hillbillies happy...you'd a thought this was the second coming of the goddamn Klondike gold rush!!!!! I might just pull an all nighter this weekend tumbling brass and spankin off in between batches.
Interesting thing about Lemi-Shine...I was able to take some not too bad once fired LC 5.56 in hot water, teaspoon of Lemi-Shine and 2 teaspoons Dawn Ultra, mix it all around with just my hands for maybe 2 minutes and have the cases look better than they do being vibrated over night. You cant beat a vibrator for "some things" but cleaning brass isn't one of them. Hats off to the no name, unspeakable, TS/SCI with every ticket possible, ultra crypto intelligence agent that has made so many hillbillies happy...you'd a thought this was the second coming of the goddamn Klondike gold rush!!!!! I might just pull an all nighter this weekend tumbling brass and spankin off in between batches.
Did this effect the threads at all?
No, did not harm dies
I just finished my first two sets of rusty dies...look like new. Only needed very minimal light wire brushing to get a little left over rust down in the bottom of the threads. I didnt tumble the full 4 hours...more like 3. Looked at the inside with a borescope expecting to see the surface peened but it is not. WOW!!! I now have 6 sets of dies I dont have to throw away.
Hello. New to the site as a member, but I have lurked for quite some time.
I just received my tumbler from STM this week and have been playhing around with it. It is quite the set-up. I bought the larger 40lb model as I have about 1800 lbs of mixed brass to sort and clean.
It is amazing the job it does in the amount of time. The brass I have is coming from a scrapper. Just a bunch of mixed stuff that looks horrible. I tried tumbling with dry media and the amount I was able to polish was discouraging. So after a lot of research I decided on the STM setup
I tumble with 15 lbs of stainless media, 5 tbs of Dawn, 1 tsp of Lemi in cold water. In about 4 hours everything was spotless.
To cut the time I have started to soak the brass in hot water and Lemi for about 20 minutes before putting it into the tumbler. This has cut my time down to a little less than 2 hours.
To soak the brass, I use a five gallon bucket with a paint strainer liner. This allows me to agitate and remove the brass easily. A quick rinse and into the tumbler.
Here are some photos. Suggestions are always welcomed!!!
I just received my tumbler from STM this week and have been playhing around with it. It is quite the set-up. I bought the larger 40lb model as I have about 1800 lbs of mixed brass to sort and clean.
It is amazing the job it does in the amount of time. The brass I have is coming from a scrapper. Just a bunch of mixed stuff that looks horrible. I tried tumbling with dry media and the amount I was able to polish was discouraging. So after a lot of research I decided on the STM setup
I tumble with 15 lbs of stainless media, 5 tbs of Dawn, 1 tsp of Lemi in cold water. In about 4 hours everything was spotless.
To cut the time I have started to soak the brass in hot water and Lemi for about 20 minutes before putting it into the tumbler. This has cut my time down to a little less than 2 hours.
To soak the brass, I use a five gallon bucket with a paint strainer liner. This allows me to agitate and remove the brass easily. A quick rinse and into the tumbler.
Here are some photos. Suggestions are always welcomed!!!
Make sure to keep your media rinsed well or over time the carbon will bond to the media. I usually run the media by itself
with the soap / Lemishine mixture for several hours to clean them up. Them I put them into a plastic container that I have
drilled holes into the bottom (smaller than the media diameter) and let rinse under running hot water till the water runs clear.
Other than that it appears you have the system down.
I usually take a 2 liter pop bottle or a milk jug with water / soap / and lemishine to the range. I also take one of those
small Lee Hand held press with the decapping die and punch the primers out a the range. Drop the deprimed cases into your
bottle with the mixture and shake them a little. They soak for about 1-2 hours and dump them into the tumbler for a 2hr
tumble when I get home.
Clean as new.
Terry
PS. All pm's regarding Mark have been answered (Media contact info.)
with the soap / Lemishine mixture for several hours to clean them up. Them I put them into a plastic container that I have
drilled holes into the bottom (smaller than the media diameter) and let rinse under running hot water till the water runs clear.
Other than that it appears you have the system down.
I usually take a 2 liter pop bottle or a milk jug with water / soap / and lemishine to the range. I also take one of those
small Lee Hand held press with the decapping die and punch the primers out a the range. Drop the deprimed cases into your
bottle with the mixture and shake them a little. They soak for about 1-2 hours and dump them into the tumbler for a 2hr
tumble when I get home.
Clean as new.
Terry
PS. All pm's regarding Mark have been answered (Media contact info.)
Ok Suasponte, give me your recomendations on what type media and whatever tumbler I need to go the stainless route and who to get it from. you ? or ?.
thanks.......Patrick
thanks.......Patrick
Thumbler's tumbler model"B", Mark will PM you the media source.
Yes, the Thumlers Model "B" tumbler is my only recommendation and I will PM you Marks contact info.
Check you Pm's
Terry
I am going to run it this evening with just the media for a few hours.
Gotit, thanks... I emailed Mark.
Thank You for the info!!
I have been using this system for about a year and have found one caveat. If you clean with the primers in the pockets and use Dillion size-decap dies then a good many primers will not decap. I had about 4000 40 S&W cases and I had about 15% over all that would not decap. Speer was the worst with Winchester second and R-P the best. I had about 5% failure to decap on the R-P. This is a lot of trouble in a progressive press. There is some corrosion between the primer and case that causes them to bond after a through drying. A very few primers had the bottom knocked out and the wall of the primer left in the case. I called Dillion and asked for their imput and they agree that it is probably a case-primer corrosion issue. I know many of you decap first but a lot of this brass had dried and caked on dirt. Is there a better way?
I have run 45's and 9mm on my Dillon 550B with the Dillon carbide dies and have not encountered this problem.
Have you double checked to make sure you die is screwed down just touching the shell plate in the ram up position?
Do not take this as a insult, just trying to rule out possible issues. Also, is your spring assist working properly.
There is no reason why your Dillon dies should not be punching out the primers regardless of cleaning with SS Media.
Unless you have a well crimped military case they should be getting the job done for you.
Is your decapp pin protruding below the bottom of the die by about 1/8 to 1/4"?
Terry
Have you double checked to make sure you die is screwed down just touching the shell plate in the ram up position?
Do not take this as a insult, just trying to rule out possible issues. Also, is your spring assist working properly.
There is no reason why your Dillon dies should not be punching out the primers regardless of cleaning with SS Media.
Unless you have a well crimped military case they should be getting the job done for you.
Is your decapp pin protruding below the bottom of the die by about 1/8 to 1/4"?
Terry
Yes all adjustments are correct.
I figured they were, does it do it on your reloads or just 1x fired brass?
Terry
Terry
Ok guys, somebody either point me the right thread or just review with me. I got in my model B tumbler yesterday after being on back order for awhile. I got the 15 lb cap drum with the heavy motor and I had bought 10 lbs of stainless media and the lemi shine awhile back. What is the ratio pins to brass and how much lemishine and dish soap per batch?
5lbs of media in the 15lb drum will do ya. 1oz of dish soap, 9mm case of lemishine, and water to 1" of top.
Terry
Terry
Tumble the media first by itself to clean of the dirt and junk from when is was mfg'd.
Terry
Terry
Here's something new I thought I'd try with this media.
This is a mold I thought I'd try to save.
I tumbled it seperately, just like the brass with Lemmishine and Dawn.
This is a mold I thought I'd try to save.
I tumbled it seperately, just like the brass with Lemmishine and Dawn.
Similar threads
