Suppressors Subsonic Suppressed Hunting Rifle

[MosesTheTank]

Jumping in on the side of clean kills... I have hunted coyotes and hogs with both .308 (1:10) and 300BO (1:7) subs/suppressed. Like a lot of other posters have said, you have to be sure of your distances. All were 220 or 240 grain soft points at very short distances and were good kills. More than 20 years ago I had my single experience with having to track a whitetail over a long distance and then deliver a kill shot, all because I took a shot I shouldn't have and I knew it when I pulled the trigger. It is something I hope to never repeat. This may be my first year hunting whitetail sub/suppressed, and for whatever reason I am more concerned about making a clean kill with deer. Thanks for the info on bullet selection. I will need to do a bit of experimenting before deciding to use one on a hunt.

 

[BurnOut]

^Okay, those rounds mentioned are pretty large and out of my original scope, like 300 BLK...brings up 458 SOCOM to my mind, though. 600 grain, 1300 ft-lbs of pure subsonic joy. Now that would be something. I also don't dismiss the idea of 300 BLK subs killing deer, it can do it well no doubt, just not my personal choice nor necessary IMO. I've actually thought about it with my 30 cal suppressor, but dismissed the idea as needless. I don't need hearing protection for the shot or two with my 26" 308 and the suppressor, even supersonic, so I don't need to rely on my bulky electronic earmuffs for hearing protection. The neighbors won't be disturbed by the suppressed shot, sooo... I don't know. Whatever floats yer boat, I guess.

Funny that you mention that... I called Silencerco just last week to see if I could get away with running it through an Octane 45... they don't know, but they're looking to find out. I offered them my upper for testing purposes, and was told that they'll get back to me.

 

[Cobracutter]

Well that's not really the case. When Mr. & Ms public are soundly sleeping there are times some, are paid to remove living/dangerous things w/o much fuss. Then you also have the homeowner who will protect his family no matter what, as not everyone lives in a danger free zone w/o 911 like some. Now living things can mean many things, be they two or four legged, w/wings, tails, or no shoulders. Sure one could use the correct snare, or other type of trap, poisons ect, but all of those have drawbacks, even using the correct gun w/a suppressor can be a draw back. Everything has draw backs, but a big slug, that is sent quietly and placed correctly works very well to keep the public safe, w/o them even knowing (1) they were in danger and (2) the event happened in their back yard while they and their children were dreaming about picnics and ice cream.
I use a 16.250" H&R handi in 44mag that chunks a 310gr cast. Topped with an IR laser and 2.5X8 Leupold. Worked very well be it day or night, for the last 17-18 years or so, compact, lite. If I was going to do it over I'd go 500S&W in the same package w/a custom mold for casting. Big wound's even in the wrong place produce results albeit,... not right there.
By the By, many Military's on this rock are now using either a subsonic 22lr or big slow movers as well. Seems the Israelis are still teaching many,...how to.

And there is ZERO benefit to running a CAN for home defense/animal control unless you live in a meth Lab. There is zero benefit to running subs and underpowered ammo when you can shoot higher power ammo through the same weapon. Almost all of the bullets being run in subs, are SUPERSONIC bullets designed to operate within a velocity range for expansion/penetration/Frag. We can get into the overpenetration inside the home, but you will find that subs tend to overpenetrate due to insificiant velocity to frag when hitting common building materials.

Using a pistol caliber or round designed to expland/penetrate at lower velocities is not the same as lobbing a 220gr Match king @ 1K fps. That Hardcast out of the 44MAG is made to penetrate and thnm defeorm with the relalitive slow 44mag.

That is another disccision, but for the hunting aspec... it makes zero sense. Its nothing but people trying to make their kill more fun, at the expense of increased chance of wounding game and prolonging the kill. If you need the challenge to keep your fun killing interesting, then pick up a bow and learn to bowhunt. Then again, like the guy above who says taking 70+ yard shots with a bow is routine........the same imature and unethical attitude that would shoot subs and underpowered ammo at game at distance.... would be taking wild ass shots with a bow outside of practical range and skill capabilities.

 

[1slow01z71]

Just because you dont have the skill to do it doesnt mean others dont. So would you calk George Gardner an unethical hunter for taking an antelope doe at 1200yds?

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

And there is ZERO benefit to running a CAN for home defense/animal control unless you live in a meth Lab.

Saying it emphatically doesn't make it true.

Light off a Surefire-braked SRB in a confined space and I could spend the rest of both our lives telling you how suppressors ARE good for home defense, but it wouldn't matter: you'd never again hear a damn thing.

My SBR runs supers and a can makes a huge difference inside a building. I have a 300BLK that runs subs, but not for home defense.

To the OP, be ready for runners unless you put the round in the brain or spine. It can be done and it is fun, but there is far less margin for error than I prefer.

 

[Cobracutter]

Saying it emphatically doesn't make it true.

Light off a Surefire-braked SRB in a confined space and I could spend the rest of both our lives telling you how suppressors ARE good for home defense, but it wouldn't matter: you'd never again hear a damn thing.

My SBR runs supers and a can makes a huge difference inside a building. I have a 300BLK that runs subs, but not for home defense.

To the OP, be ready for runners unless you put the round in the brain or spine. It can be done and it is fun, but there is far less margin for error than I prefer.

Yes beacuse my short term hearing is the prime concern durring a once in a million home defense scenario................

We are talking about hunting, not HD, feel free to start another thread about that.


1slow,
And now your saying everyone who hunts is now a pro level shooter? The vast MAJORITY of people do not have the skill. Even then, all the skill in the world does not change physics and there is still a margin of error for any shooter.

And yes, shooting an atelope @ 1200 yards is fucking retarded. Last time I checked, George hasn't missed a meal and is not going to starve anytime soon.

Yea there are people who post their crazy long shots and bragg about it. It helps to sell guns . What you don't see is the people showing their crazy long/unethical shots that missed or wounded the animal that they never found.

Ironic huh?

 

[1slow01z71]

I just find it funny that you've deemed yourself the bastion of morality given your propensity to make such asinine comments constantly. Rock on dude. Ill stick to what works for me. I dont think anyone is going to lose any sleep over what the great Cobracutter says, well at least the half of the site that hasnt put you on their ignore list yet.

Tgis was entertaining while I was bored at work today. What great problem do you want to tackle next? Perhaps the merits of wiping front to back or vice versa?

 

[Cobracutter]

I just find it funny that you've deemed yourself the bastion of morality given your propensity to make such asinine comments constantly. Rock on dude. Ill stick to what works for me. I dont think anyone is going to lose any sleep over what the great Cobracutter says, well at least the half of the site that hasnt put you on their ignore list yet.

Tgis was entertaining while I was bored at work today. What great problem do you want to tackle next? Perhaps the merits of wiping front to back or vice versa?

Morality and Ethics are not the same. Crack a dictionary or your google machine for further reading.

Your logic is the same as if .22LR was legal for hunting buffalo........you would do it. Its legal right? People used to poach deer with .22LR (despite it was all they had/could afford and they needed to put food on the table) so why not?

Ask yourself this question, WHAT purpose or reason is there to shoot with subsonic rifle ammo? What benefit (other than sound which is irrelevent, and Money since most of these rigs are over $1k shooting Expensive factory or reloaded ammo) is there gained?

The ask yourself, what are the Cons?

Personaly, I don't give a shit what you think. You have yet to make one valid point in this disccusion. This is debate and your best defense is "other people do it and it sometimes works" while ignoring all the negatives.....

Sounds like you have a future in politics or government.

EDIT: Oh I see you work in the trades......or for the govie.....Looks like you you already found your match.

 

[Cobracutter]

Guess they were right,....You really don't have a clue do you?

Oh wise one, please bless us with your great knowledge of why a CAN is needed or preferable in either a extremley rare/unlikley scenario. Feel free to give us a ballistics/terminal effects lessons while you are at it, along with the difference's in reliability between a SBR and a Carbine/Middy.

Also nice job with sniping some line out of context while ignoring the rest of the post.

 

[Nortonious]

Well anyway.....

I finally got around to loading up some 300BLK Lehigh Defense 170gr "Controlled Fracturing" rounds (see pic). 10gr of A1680 kept them subsonic out of my 10.5" SBR AR (and my buddy's 14.5" SBR Rem700). BTW- these rounds gave him a tough time feeding in his bolt gun, I had no issues out of my AR.

My buddy and I got a few piggies with them, but our SUBJECTIVE observations didn't notice any greater success than using 208 Amax for sub loads.

I was toying with the idea of trying their 194 grain Maximum Expansion bullets, but just not sure I need to spend that much to load up some hog ammo.

Anybody tried that bullet?

I still think 208 Amax is good (not perfect, but good). For a third the cost, it's especially attractive.

 

[Cobracutter]

Not my job to teach you anything, you know it all so whats the point anyway? I only know what my Grandfather taught me in the 50's and Uncle expounded upon during the 60's-80's. If Frank had a teaching platform I'm sure you would be called to render up what ever. Now don't know about you and really don't care either, but I'm here to learn and I am also old enough to side step B/S about numbers/fragmentation/expansion. Long before your or my time the old 44-40, 30-30 or 45-70 let alone the 44 Henry was killing everything that moved on this rock. Then came the number crunchers and fragmentation/expansion experts. All that has been gained is self proclaimed experts, telling the world how to do something based upon their inability beyond a drawing board. I've been on this rock for a few years, and have used subs and high speed shit long enough to know (A) when one will be better suited than the other (B) Know my limits with either (C) know when someone spouting shit, does not have a clue!

People used to drink mercury, Drink piss (urine therapy), bloodlet and a host of other shit that has been proven to be harmful/dangerous/Deadly.

You are failing at logic and context. How many people 100+ years ago were hunting for sport?........other than aristocracy. People Hunted for sustenance..... out of necessity.

There is a VERY big difference between using what you have to STAY ALIVE and choosing to use the wrong tool for the job for shits and giggles. No one is going to blast some guy for using a .22 to put food on the table so his family survives if that is all he has. When jackasses use underpowered gear that typically accompanies their underpowered brain (function of itself) then poor results follow.

You do realize that both the 30-30 and 45-70 are full power rifles cartridges right? Both are easily supersonic with factory loads, have MORE than enough Energy (some 45-70 loads approach 3500K FTLBS) to cleanly kill large game at reasonable ranges, and use bullets constructed to expand within their velocity envelopes? I guess that doesn't fit your narrative so you will just ignore it along with every other fact...........

I guess you are still riding around on the interstate on your house and buggy, wearing homemade clothing and abstaining from modern medicine too right?

 

[Cobracutter]

You fail to grasp much, don't you? You one of those guys that believe your own make it up as you go,... don't you? B/S will never trump experience but keep plugging along, you might get lucky. Just so you know, (like those that know me) I don't and have never hunted for sport. I either get paid, or it's going on my table, or the three S's apply.

What don't I grasp?

I have provided factual and logical examples, proven your assertions are general and out of context and you still are swinging blindly.

Please tell me what I have made up? What am I bullshiting? Examples please...... You said it, so man the fuck up and stand behind your words.

Your best response is along the lines "old timers used to do it this way " as some sort of basis for modern hunting/sport.

You know what else they used to do, Rub shit into wounds..............before they understood this little bug called bacteria existed.

 

[1slow01z71]

Morality and Ethics are not the same. Crack a dictionary or your google machine for further reading.

Your logic is the same as if .22LR was legal for hunting buffalo........you would do it. Its legal right? People used to poach deer with .22LR (despite it was all they had/could afford and they needed to put food on the table) so why not?

Ask yourself this question, WHAT purpose or reason is there to shoot with subsonic rifle ammo? What benefit (other than sound which is irrelevent, and Money since most of these rigs are over $1k shooting Expensive factory or reloaded ammo) is there gained?

The ask yourself, what are the Cons?

Personaly, I don't give a shit what you think. You have yet to make one valid point in this disccusion. This is debate and your best defense is "other people do it and it sometimes works" while ignoring all the negatives.....

Sounds like you have a future in politics or government.

EDIT: Oh I see you work in the trades......or for the govie.....Looks like you you already found your match.

Your posts remind of a virgin saying theyre good in bed. How do you know if youve never tried. There are many things in this world that work that shouldnt on paper. Until you actually get off the internet and do, maybe you should heed the words of people with first hand experience.

I already posted the numbers and you chose to gloss right over em. Is a 45acp at the muzzle not enough to kill a deer?

Not sure how my job factors in to anything. Im a structural building inspector, you know, the kind that keep buildings from falling down. Definitely just a made up beaurecratic institution that serves now real purpose. Id think a mental giant such as yourself might see the type of job I have and make the connection that I have a better understanding of physics than your average bear but in truw cobracutter fashion you use it in a failed attempt to denigrate me.

 

[Cobracutter]

Your posts remind of a virgin saying theyre good in bed. How do you know if youve never tried. There are many things in this world that work that shouldn't on paper. Until you actually get off the internet and do, maybe you should heed the words of people with first hand experience.

I already posted the numbers and you chose to gloss right over em. Is a 45acp at the muzzle not enough to kill a deer?

Not sure how my job factors in to anything. Im a structural building inspector, you know, the kind that keep buildings from falling down. Definitely just a made up beaurecratic institution that serves now real purpose. Id think a mental giant such as yourself might see the type of job I have and make the connection that I have a better understanding of physics than your average bear but in truw cobracutter fashion you use it in a failed attempt to denigrate me.

Your avoiding the question and making mental reaches with logic.

I don't need to eat a handful of dogshit to know its not tasty. Physics does not lie. We know more about bullet comp, ballistics and terminal effects then ever before. Hunting is not the same as engaging in warfare.

22LR at the muzzle is enough to kill a deer with proper shot placement. 45 as well.... lets start adding distance and a moving target and see how well that works. Its not an apples to apples comparison. Thousands of LEO's get to dispatch deer every year that are wounded/dying/crippled because jackasses either cannot shoot, are using the wrong equipment or a combination of the two.

I hunt EVERY year. I grew up hunting. I grew up working for a hunting/shooting club on the all through high school. The only time I haven't hunted in the last 20 years is when either deployed on away at college. I've deer hunted in MD, VA, WV, DE, NJ and PA.

There is zero need , reason or benefit to hunt with underpowered ammo. NONE. There are dozens of Con's.

 

[Cobracutter]

You don't grasp the concept of others not doing everything your way!

You have proven nothing, just your mussing in print on a web page where every one knows, there is never any B/S, it's all true, as long as it came from your mouth. I've made 67 years w/o your advice, and some would say I've made it very well, so tell ya what. You keep thinking about bagging shit your way, and I'll keep using my out dated methods that have never failed to date. I'm still getting paid to use and teach those outdated methods,...You?

Way to skirt around the facts..... while not backing up your words.

You can't even address simple statements or questions.

Lots of generalizations and unsubstantiated claims........... Path of the coward and the ignorant.

 

[Cobracutter]

Keep trying to impress your self, because it ain't working on me or many others that's for sure. As a poor kid growing up in Indiana taking deer w/a 22lr was a needed skill set many of us had to know. As we grew up most of us learned it was all about field-craft an placement, instead of trying to kill into the next county an wasting meat w/a cannon. A true hunter of any thing living has a skill set that allows them to get well within the weapons range. Hunting is about field-craft first, ballistics is about thinking the gun will do all the work. I can buy a car/truck that will get a speeding ticket with less than 50 hp, yet most have to have at least 250hp+ to get to the meat market, your logic is the same way! You have bought into the gun rag hype, hook line an sinker, good job!

What the fuck are you even talking about. Field Craft has zero relevance with what we are talking about. Rambling on about "the good ol days" with me pewaps 22 down by the watering hole. Your still cannot grasp the difference between hunting with what you have out of necessity for survival vs. modern hunting for fun/sport. You are contradicting both the point and the argument made by others in your camp. Did you even read this thread?

That quote was not directed at you, but since you want to throw your dick around feel free to List the Pro's and Con's for each.

Still avoiding direct questions?

You typed those words, so back them up... otherwise you are a coward and pathetic.

You fucking fail again..........If you actual read my posts (http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-semi-auto-rifles/250199-new-sniper-magazine.html).... I am the most blatant opponent of gun rags on this website..........so try again buttercup. Your talking out of your ass.

 

[3DHUSKER]

Jeezzz.....Cobracutter, just checked in and your still on your soap box. Make sure you type in all caps and yell in your I know everything voice. That will help I am sure, oh and make sure you call them more names.

 

[bunsen27]

Jeezzz.....Cobracutter, just checked in and your still on your soap box. Make sure you type in all caps and yell in your I know everything voice. That will help I am sure, oh and make sure you call them more names.

He must have gotten a fresh shipment of Haterade in and been guzzling it non-stop for the past 24 hours. Threads always seem to devolve to their lowest possible depths when he "arrives".

 

[1slow01z71]

He just provided me with good entertainment on a slow work day. The shit he comes up with and how he"knows" what he knows is quite entertaining.

 

[Cobracutter]

You really are educated beyond your intelligence. So when you go hunting you just garb a cannon and step out the door, that's hunting to you? You do no scouting, mapping, studying, ect, AKA hunting "Field-Craft" . What, you pick a place an think this is all there is to it? Or you one of those who walk around all day, then get home and say, well I did not see anything? Hunting is about knowing your quarry, it's likes and dislikes, ability's and disability's, then out smart it, and tag it's ass. A smart hunter understands all of this, folks who think they are hunters will never understand it at all. You might need a cannon while hunting, I don't. I have the ability to out smart it and get close enough. Two things you can't get from collage, one is ability, and the other is common sense. Both of which seem to be in short supply this days,...

Stop circle jerking and running away from direct questions. That is the path of a coward.

Stop changing the subject and trying to pretend we are talking about field craft......which has ZERO relevance to the discussion at hand.

Where did ANYONE say anything about what kind of prep they for hunting? What does that have to do with our debate?

You are using liberal 101 tactic. Can't win a debate/argument/discussion with reason, logic or facts so you change the subject, make some wild claims and avoid direct questions like you are made of Teflon.

You know a whole lot about "Collage" right? A wise man once said, "The world needs ditch diggers".

Keep on rambling on rain man.....at least its entertaining.



Everyone on this site is a master hunter, distinguished marksman, well read with a 14" cock who bangs super models every night while lighting cohibas with 100 bills......................

 

[Cobracutter]

He just provided me with good entertainment on a slow work day. The shit he comes up with and how he"knows" what he knows is quite entertaining.

Prove me wrong then. I have been asking you too all thread. You can't even step up to the plate when it's tee'd up.


Its cool though. You would rather bullshit and beat around the bush then actually back up anything you say with proof or facts............ Typical mouth breather mentality.

You and the master gunfighter should hang out..... neither of you can answer simple, direct questions Nor back up the words you type with anything of substance.

 

[Cobracutter]

Your as predictable as the sun in the AM, and about as welcome in most conversations as a root canal. Must be something you stepped in as you show up and others walk away. Same thing I should have done, except I thought you might want to learn something. I ( like others have said)now find you know it all, so the need to enlighten you any further would be about as pointless as,.. well even you, can understand.
Oh, just so you know the world needs more ditch diggers than ever these day, because the amount of B/S that most every liberal school teaches needs covered up very quickly, before it pollutes the earth to death and drives the national debt higher yet.
The Name calling tells it all, and yes Uncle taught me how to read between the lines long ago. The nice thing about the net and sites like this is one can bait a target in certain subject matter and the ability of the target on the subject is known w/in a page or two. Those that know the subject matter don't have to cuss or name call to induce their ability. Like in all things you can B/S the fans, but you will never B/S the players. I've looked at your postings,...they tell it all.
I'm going hog hunting in about 30 minutes so get the closing shot for tonight,...

What have you taught? What have you added to this discussion? ANYTHING of substance? ......When challenged on your claim, and asked direct questions, you refuse to answer.

You decide to swing your big dick and call someone out, so answer the fucking questions, back up what you said and stop being a pussy. You are nothing but a troll at this point.

 

[3DHUSKER]

What have you taught? What have you added to this discussion? ANYTHING of substance? ......When challenged on your claim, and asked direct questions, you refuse to answer.

You decide to swing your big dick and call someone out, so answer the fucking questions, back up what you said and stop being a pussy. You are nothing but a troll at this point.

I told you that you needed MORE CAPS and MORE NAME CALLING, how do you expect to make friends?.......Jezzz

You need to make sure everyone is a miserable with their lives as you are with yours then people will listen to you.

 

[rancilio]

Days of totally useless and unhelpful childish banter... little to do with OP

Well that back and forth was a waste of time. Now this thread can get back to the OP... Subsonic Suppressed Hunting Rifle



Quite a few interesting rounds out there. I believe that the popularity and the versitility of the 300BLK makes it a very pragmatic choice for your desired short range shooting.

The 458 SOCOM and the 510 Whisper sure look interesting and fun... but, a 5in suppressor on a 16in barrel seems like reasonable, multi-platform option for a can.

Done. I shoot big-ass 675gr cast lead boolits for the SOCOM. Lehigh also makes two lathe turned pills for this application. I have 1-8" twist Savage pre-fit barrels to stabilize the pigs. Sub-sonic death. Easy day.

Cast NOE 850gr @ 1000fps = 1887ft/lb 510 Whisper...

 

[wakajawaka]

And the .338 Spectre.
Available in AR platform.
9mm supressor is small and effective.
Some suitable cast bullets for subsonic hunting application.

 

[3DHUSKER]

.338 Spectre. Looks interesting, I am going to do some research on it.

 

[Geno C.]

I know a couple guy running 9mm cans on their blackouts and they sound really quiet.

 

[fdkay]

Figured I would weigh in a bit.

1) Someone mentioned kinetic energy and arrows. Arrows do not kill through kinetic energy. They kill through Exsanguination so comparing them to the terminal ballistics of bullets is nonsense.

2) Urine is sterile fresh from the tap. Drink away.

3) Subsonics are fun at the range, suitable for home defense, excellent for taking out dogs and such.

4) Hard cast lead pistol and rifle bullets don't normally deform, if they do, it isn't much. They kill, much like an arrow by punching a hole, normally all the way through. Elmer Kieth and his semi-wadcutter in a .44 mag is a perfect example of this.

5) I don't agree with using subsonics for normal hunting conditions. Short or very short range, not a big deal. PERSONALLY, I don't think they should be used beyond 50 yards and hopefully the animals are quite small.

6) I'm not familiar with any standard or plus p 9mm load that generates 500 lb ft of energy at the muzzle. Not saying they don't exist, but I don't know of one.

7) I like boobies.

 

[Crazy1323]

OK, this is false from an animal control stand point. I do not know enough about home defense, but here is why a suppressor is important in an animal control environment.

1) Beavers - Where I live beavers do large amounts of damage. Not just to the trees, but by building dams in levee systems that are vital for irrigating crops. You can blow up the damns, but the beaver scone back. The number of beavers harvested is greatly increased when I use a suppressor since they do not spook as badly. From a terminal stand point, I don't really care if the beaver dies there or the next day. If I drive a 7.62mm hole through it, it will die. These animals are pests that can destroy crops, either the beavers eat or people eat. You choose.

2) Hogs - hogs do ever more damage than beavers. If you have ever seen a field after hogs have been in it, especially peanuts, it looks like someone did donuts with a bulldozer. The number of animals harvested is increased when hunting suppressed. I use a 500Gr .458 bullet going 1,050 fps for hogs.

Again, I AM hunting FOR food. Just instead of eating the animals I kill, I eat and sell the crops that they don't destroy.

So please explain to me again how a suppressed, subsonic rifle round has no business hunting? Does a 45 ACP have just as much power, sure. But I cannot drop a mag and switch to a supersonic, powerful round if I run across something that sees me as food (mountain lion, black bear, etc.)

And there is ZERO benefit to running a CAN for home defense/animal control unless you live in a meth Lab. There is zero benefit to running subs and underpowered ammo when you can shoot higher power ammo through the same weapon.

That is another disccision, but for the hunting aspec... it makes zero sense. Its nothing but people trying to make their kill more fun, at the expense of increased chance of wounding game and prolonging the kill. If you need the challenge to keep your fun killing interesting, then pick up a bow and learn to bowhunt. Then again, like the guy above who says taking 70+ yard shots with a bow is routine........the same imature and unethical attitude that would shoot subs and underpowered ammo at game at distance.... would be taking wild ass shots with a bow outside of practical range and skill capabilities.

 

[Woodrow7]

Sooooo... the bottom line here is that the use of standard, supersonic ammo fired from a suppressed rifle is still quiet enough and retains the necessary power at whatever target distance that an ethical hunter is likely to attempt. I am going to reiterate my initial question since it looks like a number of additional members have been participating in this thread: suppressed 357 or 308 for "close-in" work, say 50 - 70 yards max? Assume supersonic in either case. Whitetails.

 

[3DHUSKER]

Supersonic, either of those choices (308-357) are going to do the job for you at 50 to 70, and yes it is still damn quiet.

I would go with a 308 if going super sonic so you can enjoy hunting out to normal ranges with the same effectiveness.

If only going subsonic in a 30 cal. I would go 300BLK. If you want the reasons PM me and I will give you my experience with both cartridges.

 

[BullyDog]

Hey, I got one answer for you. Contact, SSK Industries, Owner, J.D. Jones, He can point you in the right direction if you really, really , really got to hunt with subsonically loaded bullets. Listen to him and no other, PERIOD. He invented the 300 Whisper or shall we say 300 Blackout(improved). My two cents though, and this is for everyone reading. Try 170gr. 30cal.(specifically for 30-30 use) bullets in a subsonic 30cal. type cartridge. The bullet is made to perform at them low velocities. Try it, it will surprise. Thank You, and good luck.

There is a bill introduced in the NC legislature that would legalize hunting with suppressed firearms. I’m interested in acquiring a rifle, preferably a bolt action, that accurately shoots subsonic ammunition suitable for big game hunting (whitetail deer). I want something subsonic to realize the full benefits of a suppressor, and also I think it would be fun to shoot. I want the rifle to be accurate at 100 yards, but preferably 200. I would not plan to take an animal past 100yds due to trajectory, and anticipate most shots between 50-75yds. I would prefer to be able to use cast bullets, because they are often affordable and can be readily made with softer alloys to expand at subsonic velocities. I reload and have access to a chronograph, so I’m not dependent on factory ammo.

I’ve done a little research on calibers, but I would really appreciate the insights and experiences of others. One thing I would note is that most of these rifles have roughly the same entry cost ~$650 for Remington 700 SPS Tacticals and Ruger 77/357 / 77/44. Here are the observations that I’ve been able to compile.

300 Blackout
Pros:
-Uses readily available components – 30 caliber bullets and plentiful brass that can be made from 223
-Factory loaded subsonics (different bullets might be better for hunting than what manufacturers load)
-Several factory made bolt guns
-Lots of loading data

Cons:
-I’ve read that the cartridge has issues with constant velocities (high ES and SD), which limits longer range accuracy
-I’ve also read that many bolt guns have trouble feeding and that many are fine
- Fewer commercially available heavyweight cast bullets than other calibers

308 Winchester – Subsonic
Pros:
-A personal favorite caliber with readily available components that I already load for
-Some published subsonic loans
-More rifles available than you can pick from
-Extremely useful with supersonic loads
- Could be made into a versatile rifle with many other uses

Cons:
-Factory rifles would generally have too slow of a twist to stabilize bullets
-For ideal performance, most factory rifles would need to be re-barreled to a 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 twist, which significantly drives up the acquisition price (how well would 1-10 work?)
-Not a lot of commercially available heavyweight cast bullets (plenty of 220 gr RN jacketed around)
-What subsonic ammo is factory loaded is generally expensive

357 Mag – Subsonic (Ruger 77/357)
Pros:
-Bigger bullet than 30 caliber choices
- Lots of loading data
-Reloading components easy to find and inexpensive
-Common ammunition with a handgun
-Supersonic loads also useful

Cons:
-Must handload all subsonic loads other than very lightweight 38 spl
-Heavy bullets are generally intended for 35 Remington / 35 Whelen and may require 38 Special brass to chamber

44 Mag – Subsonic (Ruger 77/44)
Pros:
-Biggest bullet of anything suppressible with a pistol can (I would think SWR Octane 45 here)
-Lots of loading data
-Reloading components easy to find and inexpensive
-Common ammunition with a handgun
-Supersonic loads can be very useful
-Easiest caliber to obtain heavy weight bullets

Cons:
-Must handload all subsonic loads other than very lightweight 44 spl

 

[evilcoon]

I use a 500Gr .458 bullet going 1,050 fps for hogs.

Wow can break down this setup down? Rifle, scope etc? Sounds like a super heavy weight.

And I thought my Ruger 77/44 was a contender

 

[Crazy1323]

Wow can break down this setup down? Rifle, scope etc? Sounds like a super heavy weight.

And I thought my Ruger 77/44 was a contender

No problem, I use an 12.5" AR chambered in 458 SOCOM and a Wilson suppressor. I could push the 500gr bullet up to 1,400 but like to keep it subsonic.


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[Fletcherb]

I believe the question is less about caliber and more about skill. If you can make the shot and do it humanely, take the shot. Don't worry about folks telling you what to do. Safety then Skill. Skill brings confidence. Confidence in making a good kill. Taken plenty raccoons w .22lr at 50-75 yds w supressed rifles and subs. The locals love 'em. The subs rattle around inside the skull like a BB in a plastic Easter egg. In a survival shtf situation, I believe the same would happen with an ear or eye shot on a doe at 50 yds. If you can make the shot, take it. Done and done.


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[alleycat72]

Below is a one of the videos I made for a small bullet manufacturer to evaluate the effectiveness of 30 cal subsonic hunting bullets. The gun is a 1 in 10 308 running 225 expanding bullets. It's a lot like bow hunting. Just click on the pic

 

[alleycat72]

This is a video of a subsonic 308 at 78 yards.

 

[BullyDog]

I like the way you think Fletcherb. I have first hand experience with them eye shots on deer. Shot one once at 75yds. through a loop poled ( my cracked front door of the house, while I was back inside the house to reduce sound for the neighbors) with a New England single shot 17HMR. Hit it dead in the eye socked and the little 20gr. bullet just rattled all in her skull. Cool shot. Just imaging a SHTF situation is all I could think of after that. Shot placements everything. I don't recommend just anyone trying that till you can call where your round is going before the shot, if anyone is reading this that's just got into shooting. Always try to take your game as humanly as possible. BullyDog

I believe the question is less about caliber and more about skill. If you can make the shot and do it humanely, take the shot. Don't worry about folks telling you what to do. Safety then Skill. Skill brings confidence. Confidence in making a good kill. Taken plenty raccoons w .22lr at 50-75 yds w supressed rifles and subs. The locals love 'em. The subs rattle around inside the skull like a BB in a plastic Easter egg. In a survival shtf situation, I believe the same would happen with an ear or eye shot on a doe at 50 yds. If you can make the shot, take it. Done and done.


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[rost495]

My HK USC shoots 230 grain ammo at 1050FPS, and I dont cry when 45acp brass gets lost in the weeds. Dont need hearing protection with it either. A supressor would make it silent, but who cares if the animal hears the sound. It already has a hole in him, so he knows you are there!

Some folks tend to forget that all situations are not the same and sometimes folks aren't worried if the animal they shot heard it, but whether others did, disturbing other hunters or neighbors or such....

Congrats on the Dist Pistol bad... I shot 3 matches years ago and got 20 points and would have been finished on the 3rd match but crossfired a rapid string.... ugh.... Dist rifle here, wife and I both. But just not pistol shooters really.

Think a suppressed 45 acp would be awful quiet too.

 

[OLD18C]

Subsonic Suppressed Hunting Rifle, my version

This Marlin 336 is my version of "my suppressed hunting rifle" it is in caliber 35 Remington and now has a Buris 30mm IR scope on it. My friends call it the poaching special it was built for me in 2008 by a friend who was a former AMU armorer and uses a Costal .35 caliber Rifle suppressor (it works GERAT) and my .308 M1A built by the same friend that takes a Surefire 7.62K and a AR-10 that take the same Can. I have a .300 Win Mag Styer set up for the Surefire Can also not so much for subsonic ammo but accuracy and hearing protection when hunting.


PS: I gain a lot of great information off this web site for projects and consider it a good place for advanced shooter info. I am sad to see the posts from the 5% of the population I have been taking out of circulation since 1973. Some of you need to grow up and get a life.

 

[Conqueror]

Cobracutter's whole point in this thread seems to be "it isn't NECESSARY to shoot game with sub sonics, so why take the increased risk of poor shoot placement and injuring the animal?" To be fair to him, that is a reasonable question. However, one could also ask "why hunt at all in an era where you can buy meat at a store and have zero chance of injuring a game animal?" It all boils down to shades of gray. Hunters have decided that the benefits of hunting (freshness, tradition, taste, whatever) outweigh the risks of hunting (personal inconvenience, personal injury, wounding an animal, etc). Adding a suppressor simply adds more benefits (no ear pro needed, protect shooter's hearing better than plugs, don't disturb neighbors) and more risks (poor shot placement, decreased terminal performance) to the list of pros and cons that must be weighed breach individual hunter.

For Cobracutter, the risks outweigh the benefits. For others, the benefits outweigh the risks. Having a pissing match about something this subjective is never productive. Cobracutter, your stance has been clearly heard and understood, but it does not seem that you will be changing how others interpret the balance of risks and benefits with your invective. I suggest either moving on or trying a different strategy than argumentative dick-measuring.

On-topic, I shoot .308 subs from my TRG at 200 yards routinely. It is a hammer. I have not hunted with it but if you know your hold offs well, I don't believe shot placement would be a major problem for a skilled and experienced shooter. If I was to start subsonic hunting I would practice a lot with unknown-distance targets inside 200 yards to ensure hat my shots would land where intended on game day.

 

[Daryl licht]

This is the deadliest system on the ranch and has killed so many hogs (from piglet to boar) I've about shot this barrel out...it's a suppressed savage .22 with a vortex viper for daytime and a thermal for dark. I don't care what you hit behind the ear with it they all fall down

 

[3DHUSKER]

This is the deadliest system on the ranch and has killed so many hogs (from piglet to boar) I've about shot this barrel out...it's a suppressed savage .22 with a vortex viper for daytime and a thermal for dark. I don't care what you hit behind the ear with it they all fall down

You have not shot Weebles then have you? They never fall down. I have a Mark II TR with a Thunderbeast 22L on it.

 

[Daryl licht]

if they glow through the thermals they are in trouble...a weeble would look fine as maybe a stuffed toilet paper holder

 

[Fletcherb]

VERY nice rig.


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[glocker17]

I had the same thoughts as the OP and I settled on this, Ruger 77/357 10" pic is with ISIS can, but now wears an Octane 9. Goto loads are 246gr cast and 190 cast SWC subtonics, and with the Octane full power Nosler 158JSP's. Shoots really well with 190's at 1020fps.

Its a good complement to the 300Blks's that I already had, one nice feature is the ability to pick up a cheap box of 38 Spl ammo for quiet plinking as most factory loads are subsonic out of the 10"