Suppressor affecting point of impact by a lot

Biscuits

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 7, 2020
136
64
I used to shoot everything suppressed, now I have started doing the 100 yard 6x5 cards unsuppressed. Rifle is a Tikka T1x 22LR, 16 inch barrel, factory stock. Suppressor is an A-Tec (Norwegian) Wave which looks like it can't be disassembled. The suppressor has probably had about 1000 rounds through it. Haven't cleaned it, except for shaking it.

The suppressor has a big effect on point of impact. Shooting at 100 yards today off a backpack at the front and a rear bag, the elevation difference I dialled in on the scope going from no suppressor to suppressor was 0.9 mrad and the windage difference 0.3 mrad. This is back to back shooting with no change in ammo or conditions. Group sizes with the suppressor are still ok, so I don't think I am getting baffle strikes.

Any ideas? What is a typical POI shift when you take a rimfire suppressor on/off?
 

Huskydriver

Not here for a long time but here for a good time
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 17, 2018
5,401
9,494
SLC, Utah
That's normal your hanging a giant weight on the end of the barrel .....poi tends to drop from an unsuppressed zero typically
 
  • Like
Reactions: tnc and STex

KnowNothing256

Supporter
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jan 9, 2020
    1,139
    665
    Dunno what's typical, but if it's repeatable then I don't think you have an issue. Frankly even if it's not it'll just cost you 3-5 rounds to re-zero each time. A bummer, but it is what it is. I certainly wouldn't expect no POI shift, even TBAC suppressors which have a great reputation for accuracy are known for their repeatable POI shift, not their total lack of one.
     

    jcmullis2

    Don’t run you’ll only die tired
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 12, 2020
    1,461
    706
    USA
    There’s a couple of things that come to mind to decrease your amount of shift. Move to 50 yards instead of 100 and if that’s doesn’t reduce it enough get a little bit closer. Lol
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: godofthunder

    alamo5000

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 18, 2020
    772
    645
    I used to shoot everything suppressed, now I have started doing the 100 yard 6x5 cards unsuppressed. Rifle is a Tikka T1x 22LR, 16 inch barrel, factory stock. Suppressor is an A-Tec (Norwegian) Wave which looks like it can't be disassembled. The suppressor has probably had about 1000 rounds through it. Haven't cleaned it, except for shaking it.

    The suppressor has a big effect on point of impact. Shooting at 100 yards today off a backpack at the front and a rear bag, the elevation difference I dialled in on the scope going from no suppressor to suppressor was 0.9 mrad and the windage difference 0.3 mrad. This is back to back shooting with no change in ammo or conditions. Group sizes with the suppressor are still ok, so I don't think I am getting baffle strikes.

    Any ideas? What is a typical POI shift when you take a rimfire suppressor on/off?
    I tried shooting one of my rimfire cans without cleaning for a long time and it definitely creates a problem. For one as the crud in my can built up it started to create a false crown of sorts and I would have wild fliers where I otherwise would not.

    Aside from the weight increasing of the can the stuff inside will definitely (eventually) impact accuracy. At least that has been my experience with my experiment of not cleaning a rimfire can.

    That said I don't know who would make a rimfire suppressor that can't be taken apart but I guess that's possible. Rimfire especially definitely needs to be cleaned. If in fact your suppressor cannot be taken apart then I would read the thread here about how to clean a sealed suppressor that I will post a link to.

    At very least you should do this anyway because if you haven't cleaned your suppressor ever (especially rimfire) you should do that before trying to disassemble it, if that's even an option. If it's not then just follow the thread and read up.

    Anyway if you get some BoreTech C4 carbon eliminator and soak your can in it for days it will absolutely work and will most likely be something you should do as routine maintenance.

     

    alamo5000

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 18, 2020
    772
    645
    Yes that's the one. I bought it before I researched too much about suppressors. Think I'll get another one which I can pull apart to clean properly.
    In the mean time get some BoreTech C4 and soak your can. It might take a few days but it will definitely improve things I think.
     

    Snuby642

    Two Star General
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 11, 2017
    7,346
    8,957
    Changing between a thread protector a suppressor and a bird cage flash hider all changed poi even at 50 yards.

    It is a thick barrel and still the harmonics change.

    The birdcage looked stupid but thread protector was misplaced temporarily.

    I wonder if you matched the weight of the thread protector to the can would create less shift?

    Maybe a tuner could get it to match?
     

    DFOOSKING

    SoDak Cat
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jan 31, 2009
    144
    172
    Iceshack Village, Buttfuck Nowhere
    What is a typical POI shift when you take a rimfire suppressor on/off?
    It totally varies....

    I got my 77/22 that I've taken my all aluminum can on and off about every 4-6 months and it shows little to no shift whatsoever. Its utterly reliable in every sense of the term to many animal's dismay.
    FB_IMG_1608000834676.jpg


    My Bergara carbon fiber shifts over 8 full mils elevation and 5 full mils windage with my can. Then I slapped a buddy's much heavier stainless can on there and the shift was minimal and groups were great. So no suppressed shooting for me at matches. :(
    FB_IMG_1607854961963.jpg


    You can have shift from the weight itself. You can have potential dampening from it being a weight making it shoot better. Or you can have altering of barrel harmonics in a negative way (what my bergara seems to be exhibiting). It doesn't even have to be a baffle strike.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: STex and Snuby642

    Snuby642

    Two Star General
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 11, 2017
    7,346
    8,957
    I will second that I have a 223 that likes a can and a 6.5g that hates them and a 308 that doesn't care but shifts a lot.

    No constants with cans.
     

    tomcatfan

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 22, 2010
    846
    513
    37
    Southern MD.
    BTW is this the suppressor you own? That's insane to me that someone would make a rimfire can that cannot be taken apart. I guess it's true though. It says so plain as day.

    https://www.a-tec.no/silencers/rimfire/a-tec-wave
    Rimfire ammo is extremely dirty from both the powder and the projectile and lube perspective. It doesn’t have the pressures necessary to ”self clean” either. You should definitely soak your can to try to clean it.
     

    basman

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 10, 2012
    117
    46
    66
    Northern Virginia
    Tikka does not like a can. Even a clean one! Lol. It must effect the barrel harmonics negatively. But it did help the rifle balance nicely.
     

    Superdave001

    Private
    Minuteman
    Mar 27, 2020
    18
    7
    Just a suggestion based on the barrel harmonics mentioned earlier. Get a fake can and weight it the same as the real one. Won't cost much to try it. At least it will give a hint as to whether the dirty can is a factor.
    My T1x shoots great with my Sparrow on it, but I always shoot suppressed, so my POA/POI don't change other than minor shifts with different ammo.
     

    Bgriff008

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 24, 2021
    218
    131
    Columbus Ohio
    I used to shoot everything suppressed, now I have started doing the 100 yard 6x5 cards unsuppressed. Rifle is a Tikka T1x 22LR, 16 inch barrel, factory stock. Suppressor is an A-Tec (Norwegian) Wave which looks like it can't be disassembled. The suppressor has probably had about 1000 rounds through it. Haven't cleaned it, except for shaking it.

    The suppressor has a big effect on point of impact. Shooting at 100 yards today off a backpack at the front and a rear bag, the elevation difference I dialled in on the scope going from no suppressor to suppressor was 0.9 mrad and the windage difference 0.3 mrad. This is back to back shooting with no change in ammo or conditions. Group sizes with the suppressor are still ok, so I don't think I am getting baffle strikes.

    Any ideas? What is a typical POI shift when you take a rimfire suppressor on/off?
    Yep. I removed my suppressor as well due to too many errant shots. Shoots better more consistent groups with it off. Thought it looked cool to run a suppressor but wasn’t doing any good.
     

    545riflefan

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 27, 2020
    84
    109
    Dayton Ohio
    Yep. I removed my suppressor as well due to too many errant shots. Shoots better more consistent groups with it off. Thought it looked cool to run a suppressor but wasn’t doing any good.
    This for me 100%. Very disappointing to find that we spend the money, wait the time, and then find that we are now dealing with all sorts of “ issues” we were not expecting. POI shift, groups opening up etc. My cans ( Griffin Recce 7’s started in jail while I awaited my stamps, got to play at the range , and now stay in the safe as they don’t play well with any of the guns I’ve tried them on. For me it’s been a waste of $$$$. The only 1 I enjoy ( Griffin checkmate ) is my .22 can on my M&P 15-22 with red dot with STD velocity. Does well enough for what it is. No interest in trying it on our T1x’s. With my experience If I had to do it all over again I would not have purchased these knowing what I know now about shooting suppressed.
     

    tomcatfan

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 22, 2010
    846
    513
    37
    Southern MD.
    This for me 100%. Very disappointing to find that we spend the money, wait the time, and then find that we are now dealing with all sorts of “ issues” we were not expecting. POI shift, groups opening up etc. My cans ( Griffin Recce 7’s started in jail while I awaited my stamps, got to play at the range , and now stay in the safe as they don’t play well with any of the guns I’ve tried them on. For me it’s been a waste of $$$$. The only 1 I enjoy ( Griffin checkmate ) is my .22 can on my M&P 15-22 with red dot with STD velocity. Does well enough for what it is. No interest in trying it on our T1x’s. With my experience If I had to do it all over again I would not have purchased these knowing what I know now about shooting suppressed.
    Does your checkmate make your 15-22 get dirty as hell after a box or 2 of ammo? My spectre ii makes my ar-22 start to malfunction after a hundred rounds or so.
     
    Last edited:

    chevy_man

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jan 25, 2019
    2,056
    1,762
    Yep. I removed my suppressor as well due to too many errant shots. Shoots better more consistent groups with it off. Thought it looked cool to run a suppressor but wasn’t doing any good.

    My exact reason for not running one in matches.


    The giant heavy .223 can didn't shift poi or cause accuracy issues. The little light .22 can moved it 5 mil. No reasoning other than harmonics.
     

    Snuby642

    Two Star General
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 11, 2017
    7,346
    8,957
    Anything you attach to a barrel changes harmonics.

    A shift in poi ? Are your turrets rocksett in place?
    A change in group size can be delt with in load development, can on.

    Rim fire is a diffrent deal but results go from better to worse and a change in ammo might fix it or make it worse.

    Don't give up without a fight.
     

    Bgriff008

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 24, 2021
    218
    131
    Columbus Ohio
    This for me 100%. Very disappointing to find that we spend the money, wait the time, and then find that we are now dealing with all sorts of “ issues” we were not expecting. POI shift, groups opening up etc. My cans ( Griffin Recce 7’s started in jail while I awaited my stamps, got to play at the range , and now stay in the safe as they don’t play well with any of the guns I’ve tried them on. For me it’s been a waste of $$$$. The only 1 I enjoy ( Griffin checkmate ) is my .22 can on my M&P 15-22 with red dot with STD velocity. Does well enough for what it is. No interest in trying it on our T1x’s. With my experience If I had to do it all over again I would not have purchased these knowing what I know now about shooting suppressed.
    Yea it sucks spending the money on a 22 suppressor. I thought with my B14 I’d get to use it more. Oh well. The son still likes to shoot my 22 handgun suppressed. My 9mm and 223 cans don’t seem as affected by the can for accuracy. But I’m inside 100 yds for much of those guns.
     

    545riflefan

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 27, 2020
    84
    109
    Dayton Ohio
    Does your checkmate make your 15-22 get dirty as hell after a box or 2 of ammo? My spectre ii makes my ar-22 start to malfunction after a hundred rounds or so.
    I can’t say I’ve noticed any issues like that. Honestly I may only have 3-4 boxes total thru the gun suppressed. When I take it to the range the suppressor stays at home as its usually being shot by a new shooters at spinners and there are lots of other guns going off. The suppressor stays on the gun at home to repel those unexpected night assaults by nuisance critters. Just dont do like I did and mix up your CCI STD velocity with your Blazer. That sonic crack is loud when your are not expecting it at around 2am. 🤪.
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: Snuby642