Range Report  Testing the 7mm 190’s.

Steel head

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    Thank you for info, not familiar with Brux barrels. What kind of rifling are they using?
    5R? something similar?
    Had a lilja 1-8” that blew up the 197 SMK :-(
    But hoping the Bartlein 1-7.7” 5R Will treat bullets better 🙏
    I’m also contemplating a bartlien 1-8.7 blank for my next Barrel.
    Both my Brux barrels have been excellent, just want to try something else.

    I got a wicked deal on a bunch of 7mm 183’s to try for shorter range use.
     

    Schw15

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    I’m also contemplating a bartlien 1-8.7 blank for my next Barrel.
    Both my Brux barrels have been excellent, just want to try something else.

    I got a wicked deal on a bunch of 7mm 183’s to try for shorter range use.
    I seen the 183 have a g7 of .377 so not bad at all. I might try a brux next. Ive had all othets kreiger Bartlein criterion and Wilson
     
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    Samegawa

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    The Barlein barrel I now have at my gunsmith is 1-7.7"... Hence my bullet blow-up nightmares...
    1-8.7 should be no problem. I`m going with the slightly smaller 7 mm Blaser instead of 7 mm practical. I got swelling near the magnum belt after only two firings on the 300 wm brass, and had do discart a lot of nice brass. Hope the long necked 7mm Blaser will hold up better. I have heard that rifling 5R vs normal, tightness of the bore and actually the length of the bore plays a part in the problem of bullet blow-ups. I`m guessing you guys know a lot more about this. But were I live (Norway) this was fairly unheard of. Hornady was not very helpful, but Berger support had info that proved useful.
    I`m expecting the barrel back in a month and then I can post the results for 190 A-TIP and 197 SMK if you`d like.
     
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    Schw15

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    The Barlein barrel I now have at my gunsmith is 1-7.7"... Hence my bullet blow-up nightmares...
    1-8.7 should be no problem. I`m going with the slightly smaller 7 mm Blaser instead of 7 mm practical. I got swelling near the magnum belt after only two firings on the 300 wm brass, and had do discart a lot of nice brass. Hope the long necked 7mm Blaser will hold up better. I have heard that rifling 5R vs normal, tightness of the bore and actually the length of the bore plays a part in the problem of bullet blow-ups. I`m guessing you guys know a lot more about this. But were I live (Norway) this was fairly unheard of. Hornady was not very helpful, but Berger support had info that proved useful.
    I`m expecting the barrel back in a month and then I can post the results for 190 A-TIP and 197 SMK if you`d like.
    Yes interested in those 197 if they blow up. I should have my 7mm-300 win mag barrels back in a week or so. Yes hornady is no help and denies the problem that they are blowing up. It never heard of 197. I run 1-8 twist barrel for them
     

    verdugo60

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    Just an update
    I just realized (cuz my brain is foggy with age and abuse) is that the scope on my 7 saum is 99% at 20 mils.
    That pretty much perfectly accounts for the extra elevation needed at my furthest targets.

    Any chance you were loading the A-Tips to mag length? I would like to mag feed in the NF ELR match and can’t seem to find 180 hybrids because of the great components drought.
     

    Schw15

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    Any chance you were loading the A-Tips to mag length? I would like to mag feed in the NF ELR match and can’t seem to find 180 hybrids because of the great components drought.
    The nf elr in wyoming? My goal is to get there and shoot that.
     

    verdugo60

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    The nf elr in wyoming? My goal is to get there and shoot that.
    Yep, I shot it last year and it was tough but really awesome. We had wind to 60+ mph on the high ridge stage. With a 300 WM/215 Berger hybrid I was holding 10.5 mils wind to get hits at 1400 yards! LOL. Scott runs a good match and it was cool to see all the different calibers/characters. Draws an interesting mix of competitors and setups.
     

    Schw15

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    Yep, I shot it last year and it was tough but really awesome. We had wind to 60+ mph on the high ridge stage. With a 300 WM/215 Berger hybrid I was holding 10.5 mils wind to get hits at 1400 yards! LOL. Scott runs a good match and it was cool to see all the different calibers/characters. Draws an interesting mix of competitors and setups.
    I figured a 7 saum or max would be the best for that. Mag feed high bc
     

    verdugo60

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    I figured a 7 saum or max would be the best for that. Mag feed high bc
    That’s what I’m thinking. Split the difference between recoil, BC and wind cutting. The match is more of a mid-range ELR one, furthest target to 2100ish but average is 1100 if I remember right. The 6.5 PRC’s and saums did better year before last when the wind wasn’t ripping quite as much.
     

    Schw15

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    That’s what I’m thinking. Split the difference between recoil, BC and wind cutting. The match is more of a mid-range ELR one, furthest target to 2100ish but average is 1100 if I remember right. The 6.5 PRC’s and saums did better year before last when the wind wasn’t ripping quite as much.
    Yeah that's what i read to they did good with no wind. But now its hard to decide. The 190 berger looks great and steel head had had great luck with it might be the best. I have long action so i can set them out more and mag feed
     

    verdugo60

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    A medium or long action seems to be the way to go if you’re doing a dedicated 7saum to take full advantage of the super long, high-BC bullets coming out.

    Mine is a switch barrel on a true short action so I’m trying to make the Berger 180’s work in a mag. If I can achieve 2850+ fps at mag length with H1000 I’ll be more than happy if it’s got good SD’s and accuracy. That’s a 2000+ yd combo at my elevation which is enough for my needs.

    True ELR with 338’s and cheytacs is freaking expensive and while neat, just not that practical to me.
     

    verdugo60

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    Yeah that's what i read to they did good with no wind. But now its hard to decide. The 190 berger looks great and steel head had had great luck with it might be the best. I have long action so i can set them out more and mag feed
    Oh and there’s always wind out there in Wyoming, question is 2 mils or 10, lol.
     

    Schw15

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    Oh and there’s always wind out there in Wyoming, question is 2 mils or 10, lol.
    Yeah i worked in wheatland alittle bit and wow the wind there is crazy. 30 mph is a nice day. Man i have a 26 inch saum and 2900 with a 183 smk is what im prolly going to settle on. Not sure what id get with 190.
     
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    Steel head

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    A medium or long action seems to be the way to go if you’re doing a dedicated 7saum to take full advantage of the super long, high-BC bullets coming out.

    Mine is a switch barrel on a true short action so I’m trying to make the Berger 180’s work in a mag. If I can achieve 2850+ fps at mag length with H1000 I’ll be more than happy if it’s got good SD’s and accuracy. That’s a 2000+ yd combo at my elevation which is enough for my needs.

    True ELR with 338’s and cheytacs is freaking expensive and while neat, just not that practical to me.
    The problem with H1000 in a short action is getting enough powder in the case with 180’s.
    I never tried H4831 with 180’s but that might be a better option, with 168’s it’s amazing.
    Depending on barrel length 2800-2850 should be easy with H1000 at mag length, with R26/N565 2950 is easy and still feeds from a magazine.
     

    calshipbuilder

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    Oh and there’s always wind out there in Wyoming, question is 2 mils or 10, lol.
    You don’t need to mag feed the NF ELR. Last Year’s winner Nolegs24 single fed his 300norma as his magazine was hanging up a bit.

    I’ve lost plenty of time digging bullet tips up trying to feed 2.95” short action 7saum loads. I ran an XM 7saum last year which fed 190s perfectly. Didn’t shoot great though. I’m thinking about going back in 2022 with a single feed setup.
     
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    Schw15

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    The problem with H1000 in a short action is getting enough powder in the case with 180’s.
    I never tried H4831 with 180’s but that might be a better option, with 168’s it’s amazing.
    Depending on barrel length 2800-2850 should be easy with H1000 at mag length, with R26/N565 2950 is easy and still feeds from a magazine.
    Im learning alot about saum and rl26 is magic in it but it dried up fast for me. Steel head is alot of help with this caliber. Hopefully powder comes out soon
     

    Schw15

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    You don’t need to mag feed the NF ELR. Last Year’s winner Nolegs24 single fed his 300norma as his magazine was hanging up a bit.

    I’ve lost plenty of time digging bullet tips up trying to feed 2.95” short action 7saum loads. I ran an XM 7saum last year which fed 190s perfectly. Didn’t shoot great though. I’m thinking about going back in 2022 with a single feed setup.
    That is good to know my plan is to go 2022 also. Maybe this year but i doubt it with how everything is.
     

    verdugo60

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    Yeah i worked in wheatland alittle bit and wow the wind there is crazy. 30 mph is a nice day. Man i have a 26 inch saum and 2900 with a 183 smk is what im prolly going to settle on. Not sure what id get with 190.
    I’d say if you have a pile of the Sierrra’s and get a nice consistent load then just roll with it brother. Get really good dope and make sure it matches your ballistic calculator from “close” to 2000 yards if you can.
     

    verdugo60

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    The problem with H1000 in a short action is getting enough powder in the case with 180’s.
    I never tried H4831 with 180’s but that might be a better option, with 168’s it’s amazing.
    Depending on barrel length 2800-2850 should be easy with H1000 at mag length, with R26/N565 2950 is easy and still feeds from a magazine.

    I have a 26” PROOF carbon fiber pre-fit. Currently working up the 6.5 CM barrel on it but will switch over to the 7mm and start load work up here in a few weeks. R26 was hard to find before this nonsense started, much less now. I have 16 lbs of H1000 so I’m gonna try to make it work.
     

    verdugo60

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    You don’t need to mag feed the NF ELR. Last Year’s winner Nolegs24 single fed his 300norma as his magazine was hanging up a bit.

    I’ve lost plenty of time digging bullet tips up trying to feed 2.95” short action 7saum loads. I ran an XM 7saum last year which fed 190s perfectly. Didn’t shoot great though. I’m thinking about going back in 2022 with a single feed setup.

    I didn’t realize “Nolegs” was single feeding, I knew he had a 300 Norma AI that he won with. I wonder how much of the match he single fed. 300 Norma did well last year, 3-4 top ten used it if I recall.

    I plan to hunt with this rifle and would like to use a mag for the match and hunting. If you were on a fixed firing line all day single feeding is not a huge deal for ELR but despite the long par times lots of guys timed out on stages especially if they had gun issues. That fine Wyoming moon dust really is hard on triggers, bolts, mags, etc because it gets into EVERYTHING.

    In summary, I’m sure it can be done but it’s not my preference for what this gun is for.
     

    Steel head

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    I have a 26” PROOF carbon fiber pre-fit. Currently working up the 6.5 CM barrel on it but will switch over to the 7mm and start load work up here in a few weeks. R26 was hard to find before this nonsense started, much less now. I have 16 lbs of H1000 so I’m gonna try to make it work.
    I started with H1000 in 7 saum.
    It was excellent sd and accurate but I just not full speed.
    Even at 2800-2850 a decent 180 gives really nice results and is quite mild to shoot.
     
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    Schw15

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    I’d say if you have a pile of the Sierrra’s and get a nice consistent load then just roll with it brother. Get really good dope and make sure it matches your ballistic calculator from “close” to 2000 yards if you can.
    I use strelok on my phone for my app is that good enough for that comp?
     

    verdugo60

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    “Good enough” is up to you. I have not used strelok but the only way to know for sure is to shoot the distances (say 500-2000 yards) ahead of time and compare your real world dope to your “try” dope. There’s enough variables (wind, aerodynamic jump, spin drift and yes even coriolis) at 1000+ yards that you want your elevation to be as spot on as possible.

    That was my biggest lesson learned last year, my load was not consistent enough and I ran out of time getting it dialed in. I also didn’t get to shoot at distance, I kind of shot the match on a whim short notice when a slot popped up. I had a blast and learned a ton but would have placed much better with more accurate come-ups.

    Cal Zant did a really good write up on the match with good insights if you’re interested. He runs the Precision Rifle blog and is a hell of a nice guy and great shooter.
     

    Schw15

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    “Good enough” is up to you. I have not used strelok but the only way to know for sure is to shoot the distances (say 500-2000 yards) ahead of time and compare your real world dope to your “try” dope. There’s enough variables (wind, aerodynamic jump, spin drift and yes even coriolis) at 1000+ yards that you want your elevation to be as spot on as possible.

    That was my biggest lesson learned last year, my load was not consistent enough and I ran out of time getting it dialed in. I also didn’t get to shoot at distance, I kind of shot the match on a whim short notice when a slot popped up. I had a blast and learned a ton but would have placed much better with more accurate come-ups.

    Cal Zant did a really good write up on the match with good insights if you’re interested. He runs the Precision Rifle blog and is a hell of a nice guy and great shooter.
    I just meant fat enough for the handheld devices. But i have found it to be good i shoot from 100 to 1900 yards with it
     

    verdugo60

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    I use strelok on my phone for my app is that good enough for that comp?
    Also with that wind, a kestrel was pretty valuable. I learned to trust it more because initially I wasn’t trusting the wind holds being so high, but they were. A kestrel with AB or Hornady 4dof is worth it in my opinion. Holds up better in harsh conditions than a phone and gives you real time adjustment for target location, wind , etc. Come shoot the match without it but just realize it’sa useful tool.
     

    Schw15

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    Also with that wind, a kestrel was pretty valuable. I learned to trust it more because initially I wasn’t trusting the wind holds being so high, but they were. A kestrel with AB or Hornady 4dof is worth it in my opinion. Holds up better in harsh conditions than a phone and gives you real time adjustment for target location, wind , etc. Come shoot the match without it but just realize it’sa useful tool.
    I have the cheaper kestrel
     

    verdugo60

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    I think we discussed it before but a lot of people swore off ELD-M’s/X’s after the NF match last year, lots of them were blowing up. I’m not planning to use them at magnum speeds, never had an issue in my 6.5 CM or 223 AI, they’ve been great in those.

    I’m guessing it’s faster speeds and twists where it starts happening.
     

    Steel head

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    I think we discussed it before but a lot of people swore off ELD-M’s/X’s after the NF match last year, lots of them were blowing up. I’m not planning to use them at magnum speeds, never had an issue in my 6.5 CM or 223 AI, they’ve been great in those.

    I’m guessing it’s faster speeds and twists where it starts happening.
    I had problems as well with the 147’s in my 260.
    :(
     
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    Aussieusa

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    Does anyone know what speed to stay away from with the 180 ELD-M’s so they don’t blow up?

    I’ll soon be loading for one once my barrel comes in. 9 twist 26” straight, I only have h4350. From what I’ve read in the Aussie forums, people have been loading around 56g of AR2209/H4350 with them still being fine.
     

    calshipbuilder

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    I didn’t realize “Nolegs” was single feeding, I knew he had a 300 Norma AI that he won with. I wonder how much of the match he single fed. 300 Norma did well last year, 3-4 top ten used it if I recall.

    I plan to hunt with this rifle and would like to use a mag for the match and hunting. If you were on a fixed firing line all day single feeding is not a huge deal for ELR but despite the long par times lots of guys timed out on stages especially if they had gun issues. That fine Wyoming moon dust really is hard on triggers, bolts, mags, etc because it gets into EVERYTHING.

    In summary, I’m sure it can be done but it’s not my preference for what this gun is for.
    Standard 300 norma, virgin lapua brass, in an accuracy international. I’d say he single fed about 3/4 of the match.
     

    verdugo60

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    Does anyone know what speed to stay away from with the 180 ELD-M’s so they don’t blow up?

    I’ll soon be loading for one once my barrel comes in. 9 twist 26” straight, I only have h4350. From what I’ve read in the Aussie forums, people have been loading around 56g of AR2209/H4350 with them still being fine.
    Not sure there’s a hard speed threshold, but it seems to be an issue more in magnums at normal magnum speeds, so...2850+.
     
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