The SIG 716I TREAD .308 may be the best AR-308 / AR-10 type battle rifle for the money.

[tucaz]

I bought a 716 about 6 months ago. had to slow down the BGC with an A5 buffer set up and a gas bleed off. it was pulling the rim really hard and deforming it more than it should have. cases where dropping at 2-3 oclock so that seemed about right but extraction seems early.

on top of that, i'm a lefty and even now with 3-4 o'clock pattern i get empty's bouncing off my ear pro.

not my favorite rifle.

 

[Master Gunny]

I bought a 716 about 6 months ago. had to slow down the BGC with an A5 buffer set up and a gas bleed off. it was pulling the rim really hard and deforming it more than it should have. cases where dropping at 2-3 oclock so that seemed about right but extraction seems early.

on top of that, i'm a lefty and even now with 3-4 o'clock pattern i get empty's bouncing off my ear pro.

not my favorite rifle.

You have a Warrantee. Use it.

 

[RUTGERS95]

LMT for 1500-1600$??? Where? Cheapest I’ve seen LMT 308 is 2200$ and it was out of stock. Stock for 100? Why do you need a stock? Why is the M5 better? M5 gets bad mouthed on so many forums. I know nothing about it. Just saying it’s out there.
I thank you in advance if you can give us some answers.

you missed by a wide margin and the view is that once you start spending in that area, you ought to just go and get the lmt. No one said you are buying lmt for 1600.

M5 gets good and bad, just like the sig tread but at least the m5 is more accurate by all accounts. Reliability, haven't seen anything that makes me think the m5 is less reliable. Parts compatibility goes to m5.

so you can't tell us why the sig is so much better than the m5 and at 30% more?

 

[msgriff]

What's the current status on aftermarket barrels and BCG/bolts?

 

[BCP]

What's the current status on aftermarket barrels and BCG/bolts?

Saw this on gunbroker looks like DPMS handguard, barrel and 716 bolt

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1007715823

 

[Master Gunny]

you missed by a wide margin and the view is that once you start spending in that area, you ought to just go and get the lmt. No one said you are buying lmt for 1600.

M5 gets good and bad, just like the sig tread but at least the m5 is more accurate by all accounts. Reliability, haven't seen anything that makes me think the m5 is less reliable. Parts compatibility goes to m5.

so you can't tell us why the sig is so much better than the m5 and at 30% more?

1st off, it’s not “we want to know”. It’s “you”. No matter what I say, you won’t agree. That is fine.

The 716 Tread hovers around 1 MOA. My experience has been 3/4-1 MOA. This is on the 2 that I set up. That is with 168 SMK Federal. The weapon is solidly built. It has a 2nd kind of cool factor because it’s an adopted military weapon. There is a solid after market for it.

I did some research on the M5. Looks like a solid platform. I do like the different options. I have just heard a lot of negative about the M5. I personally don’t have experience with it. A lot of times people are just talking crap because they are justifying their own purchase. So I don’t totally believe the negative about the M5

 

[GLD1980]

To really caveat off everything being shared;
It's not that the AP M5 is not a great gun, you just hear more about issues and problems because inexperienced builders are having issues thinking they now how to build. Then they come to forums like this, seeking knowledge and wisdom to fix said issues. It can be very easy to misunderstand the issue and blame Aero from the outside looking in, which isn't the case it seems.

SIG offers a bare bones gun that comes assembled and for what you get equivalent from Aero, is a great deal from SIG. Now how you view SIG quality and workmanship is a whole different argument that we can get into more in depth in a non tech forum.

Bottom line, both platforms are great choices and alternatives! Aero offers a builder and extreme value because you can quality build your AR at ala carte prices providing substantial savings if you know what your doing.

The SIG offers you amazing value at entry level prices from a highly regarded and well respected firearms manufacturer. It is the best value offered from any of the big houses for an out of the box big boy that works lol.

At a certain point we are simply nitpicking and it's unnecessary at this point. Since the SIG came out in 2019 many have argued against it but overall it is simply a solid gun at a solid price. It's not as easily customizable or fun has some of the others in the field but changes can be made. It is accurate and reliable out of the box, and at a good price. Enough have been fielded to gauge or witness problems or issues and they don't exist.
My curiosity is now aimed at what SIG will do next with the platform.... It's at the point in its age where SIG will drop, or further refine and who knows.

 

[Master Gunny]

To really caveat off everything being shared;
It's not that the AP M5 is not a great gun, you just hear more about issues and problems because inexperienced builders are having issues thinking they now how to build. Then they come to forums like this, seeking knowledge and wisdom to fix said issues. It can be very easy to misunderstand the issue and blame Aero from the outside looking in, which isn't the case it seems.

SIG offers a bare bones gun that comes assembled and for what you get equivalent from Aero, is a great deal from SIG. Now how you view SIG quality and workmanship is a whole different argument that we can get into more in depth in a non tech forum.

Bottom line, both platforms are great choices and alternatives! Aero offers a builder and extreme value because you can quality build your AR at ala carte prices providing substantial savings if you know what your doing.

The SIG offers you amazing value at entry level prices from a highly regarded and well respected firearms manufacturer. It is the best value offered from any of the big houses for an out of the box big boy that works lol.

At a certain point we are simply nitpicking and it's unnecessary at this point. Since the SIG came out in 2019 many have argued against it but overall it is simply a solid gun at a solid price. It's not as easily customizable or fun has some of the others in the field but changes can be made. It is accurate and reliable out of the box, and at a good price. Enough have been fielded to gauge or witness problems or issues and they don't exist.
My curiosity is now aimed at what SIG will do next with the platform.... It's at the point in its age where SIG will drop, or further refine and who knows.

Great post. I’d like to see an 18-20 incher. Aero does have that. I am actually glad somebody compared it in this thread because I then went and looked at thier website. I am loving the 18 inch upper and now will consider it.

 

[JB556308]

Has anyone pulled the barrel and changed it out? Wanting to run 18" instead of the 16. What's a good barrel and best way to go about it?

 

[BCP]

Has anyone pulled the barrel and changed it out? Wanting to run 18" instead of the 16. What's a good barrel and best way to go about it?

There was one on gunbroker with different handguards and wilson combat barrel. The short answer is DPMS bolt and extension, armalite barrel nut threads, dremel the DPMS claw block to fit the Sig716 upper contour, tons of threadlocker on the barrel nut.

 

[GLD1980]

@JB556308
I wish I was more help but I haven't removed my barrel and though one or two people may have, nobody has posted pics or steps to doing so that I would feel confident sharing.

@BCP sounds like he's onto something.

 

[JB556308]

@JB556308
I wish I was more help but I haven't removed my barrel and though one or two people may have, nobody has posted pics or steps to doing so that I would feel confident sharing.

@BCP sounds like he's onto something.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. Someone knows something.

 

[x248716x]

There was one on gunbroker with different handguards and wilson combat barrel. The short answer is DPMS bolt and extension, armalite barrel nut threads, dremel the DPMS claw block to fit the Sig716 upper contour, tons of threadlocker on the barrel nut.

since it's a DPMS-pattern bolt and barrel extension, you can use an AR-10 reaction rod, either the G or the MI.

 

[JB556308]

There was one on gunbroker with different handguards and wilson combat barrel. The short answer is DPMS bolt and extension, armalite barrel nut threads, dremel the DPMS claw block to fit the Sig716 upper contour, tons of threadlocker on the barrel nut.

So, swap out the sig bolt in the sig carrier, with a dpms, to fit dpms extension in the replacement barrel? Armalite barrel nut to replace sig barrel nut? Not familiar with a claw block, seems to be a stand to work on the upper from a Google search? Is the block necessarily needed?

 

[JB556308]

since it's a DPMS-pattern bolt and barrel extension, you can use an AR-10 reaction rod, either the G or the

since it's a DPMS-pattern bolt and barrel extension, you can use an AR-10 reaction rod, either the G or the MI.

Meaning either model of m or gi can be used?

 

[x248716x]

So, swap out the sig bolt in the sig carrier, with a dpms, to fit dpms extension in the replacement barrel? Armalite barrel nut to replace sig barrel nut? Not familiar with a claw block, seems to be a stand to work on the upper from a Google search? Is the block necessarily needed?

you could probably re-use your Sig bolt and Sig carrier with a new replacement DPMS-pattern barrel, if you're on the cheap. My take from reading the Sig 716 threads is that the Sig bolt is DPMS-pattern. So, as long as it head-spaces okay. but most folks go with a new BCG when they swap out to a new barrel. Bolt lugs "wear in" and mate with the barrel extension lugs, so they say.

MI reaction rod.

I'm guessing the G AR-10 reaction rod probably costs more, doesn't have the "fin".

 

[RUTGERS95]

another reason to pass

 

[JB556308]

you could probably re-use your Sig bolt and Sig carrier with a new replacement DPMS-pattern barrel, if you're on the cheap. My take from reading the Sig 716 threads is that the Sig bolt is DPMS-pattern. So, as long as it head-spaces okay. but most folks go with a new BCG when they swap out to a new barrel. Bolt lugs "wear in" and mate with the barrel extension lugs, so they say.

MI reaction rod.

I'm guessing the G AR-10 reaction rod probably costs more, doesn't have the "fin".

Problem is, I think the sig bolt carrier group is also proprietary. Unless I'm wrong. Pretty much they thought this rifle out.lol

 

[rpoL98]

Problem is, I think the sig bolt carrier group is also proprietary. Unless I'm wrong. Pretty much they thought this rifle out.lol

you're right, the carrier is proprietary, that's why the charging handle is proprietary. The bolt itself is probably DPMS-pattern, though, if the barrel extension is DPMS-pattern, as mentioned above.

 

[BCP]

If someone here has a dpms 308 they could tear down the bolt and post measurements (like depth of bolt face, length of bolt from face to tail, firing pin length). The firing pin in the 716i is the 716g2 firing pin, in the older 716s some people got away with regular dpms 308 pins.

Or if they have a spare 308 dpms barrel they could check to see if the 716i bolt cams into the lugs and headspaces properly.

 

[hlee]

If someone here has a dpms 308 they could tear down the bolt and post measurements (like depth of bolt face, length of bolt from face to tail, firing pin length). The firing pin in the 716i is the 716g2 firing pin, in the older 716s some people got away with regular dpms 308 pins.

Or if they have a spare 308 dpms barrel they could check to see if the 716i bolt cams into the lugs and headspaces properly.

Post what measurements you want and I’ll pull the bolt out of my lr308 in the morning.

 

[msgriff]

If someone here has a dpms 308 they could tear down the bolt and post measurements (like depth of bolt face, length of bolt from face to tail, firing pin length). The firing pin in the 716i is the 716g2 firing pin, in the older 716s some people got away with regular dpms 308 pins.

Or if they have a spare 308 dpms barrel they could check to see if the 716i bolt cams into the lugs and headspaces properly.

I'll give you the some dimensions of the bolts. The dimension that affects headspace is from the rear of the bolt lugs to the bolt face, so you subtract the depth of the bolt face from the length of the lugs for the critical dimension. Armalite AR-10 bolts have a consistent lug length of 0.310", and a bolt face depth of 0.129". DPMS pattern lug length can vary, depending on manufacturer, but 0.310" is the most common. Bolt face depth is fairly consistent at 0.124" to 0.125".

 

[BCP]

Post what measurements you want and I’ll pull the bolt out of my lr308 in the morning.

Length of firing pin (overall and tip to the ring that hits the tail of the bolt), diameter of firing pin (I think that the DPMS steps down whereas the 716i is thick the whole way) bolt face to tail, that would tell people if a regular DPMS 308 firing pin might work vs the 50 dollar replacement one Sig sells.

 

[JB556308]

you're right, the carrier is proprietary, that's why the charging handle is proprietary. The bolt itself is probably DPMS-pattern, though, if the barrel extension is DPMS-pattern, as mentioned above.

Thinking I found something.

 

[hlee]

Length of firing pin (overall and tip to the ring that hits the tail of the bolt), diameter of firing pin (I think that the DPMS steps down whereas the 716i is thick the whole way) bolt face to tail, that would tell people if a regular DPMS 308 firing pin might work vs the 50 dollar replacement one Sig sells.

This firing pin is part of a LR308 bought in about 2012.
I have a replacement firing pin kicking around here somewhere. I can dig it out and measure it as well if you like...

 

[GLD1980]

Not a bad look for the 716I.

 

[JB556308]

There was one on gunbroker with different handguards and wilson combat barrel. The short answer is DPMS bolt and extension, armalite barrel nut threads, dremel the DPMS claw block to fit the Sig716 upper contour, tons of threadlocker on the barrel nut.

I think I may have misread your comment. Have you switched the barrel out on one? It is doable??