In other news Tim at Military Arms Channel put out a good Ruger SFAR video... This rifle is pretty Intriguing and the video isn't bad. I would like to see a SFAR vs 716I vid. I am going to eventually get an SFAR too!
- Thread starter GLD1980
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I was thinking the same thing, if they have a war with China it’s gonna be a bloodbath for India imho.
@BCP Agreed, they need to unfuck themselves quickly.
@RUTGERS95
I reached out to a SIG employee on ARF and asked for information on the 2nd batch of 72,000 716I rifles being cancelled for performance issues. I will report back!
Have a Happy New Years fellas!
@RUTGERS95
I reached out to a SIG employee on ARF and asked for information on the 2nd batch of 72,000 716I rifles being cancelled for performance issues. I will report back!
Have a Happy New Years fellas!
Seems that if you are heavily invested in ammunition that doesn’t function well in your chosen rifle, it may be the frugal option to find a rifle that works with what you have. I’m not convinced that India is the litmus test for what rifle is quality.
I seem to remember some warning a while back not to run Indian surplus 30-06 in m1 Garands- though Greek HXP was considered good to go.
What am I saying? Maybe the rifle has issues. Idk. But, if the ammo is a known issue, drawing conclusions on the rifle is dubious at best.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. Don’t own any of the large frame rifles mentioned. Just some observations from the sidelines.
I seem to remember some warning a while back not to run Indian surplus 30-06 in m1 Garands- though Greek HXP was considered good to go.
What am I saying? Maybe the rifle has issues. Idk. But, if the ammo is a known issue, drawing conclusions on the rifle is dubious at best.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. Don’t own any of the large frame rifles mentioned. Just some observations from the sidelines.
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@RUTGERS95
There order for 2nd batch of 72,000 rifles is cancelled as of now. I am still waiting on response from SIG regarding complete cancellation or if this is a negotiation tactic of India's MoD to reduce the amount they will pay for the order. Here are the facts of the issue and if you would of invested just a bit more more time digging for the truth, that it was indeed ammo related and not the gun, you would of found it. With your wealth of knowledge, being a contributor to the discussion and bringing up valid points will go farther than SIG bashing. As before mentioned I hold no loyalties to SIG and I will hold them accountable when necessary but being fair and impartial should be the goal of the tech forums.
I may be completely wrong here but I seriously doubt that besides the H&K MP5, neither H&K, KAC or LMT have sold just one model of their rifles or variations of the same rifles evolution in these type of numbers (72,400 units).
Shit I doubt the US Military has a whole has 72,000 M110SASS or likely variations since 2005 or whenever it was we began fielding the SASS rifles. Bro it's been almost 20 years. Let's just take it one step further now and add all the variants bought of KAC M110's since 2005 to all the HK M110A1 CSASS variants bought since 2016 and I highly doubt they're catching up yet. I wonder how many LMT L129A1 rifles the Brits recently bought? I doubt if you combined all of the sales of the 3 companies from 2005-now in the 7.62 large frame AR category for military sales, you'd beat the SIG numbers they accomplished in one sale.
Yeah I get it KAC, LMT, H&K are better rifles and cost more! I do understand that but fellas the SIG is good enough IMO to still perform their military functions and missions for way less.... Where does diminishing returns play a part? You and I both know that India isn't just going to through away the best rifle they've ever been issued! I'm sure you'd like to continue to lead others to think that or that the SIG 716I is shit but the truth of the matter is no matter what you or I believe, the 716I is a performer and here to stay.
Now I know I probably just triggered another one of your "but my KAC or LMT or H&K is the best ever" or 'SIG sucks your better off with an Aero M5 or Ruger SFAR", but your wrong about the SIG 716I and whether anybody else will tell you, just go read the posts on Ruger SFAR discussions or Aero M5 discussions. The 716I has no teething issues and is the better gun! Even against the better big brand guns like KAC, LMT, H&K the SIG can still hang. Ofcourse the big names are nicer and feature packed but when it comes to 16" gun VS 16" gun, none of your top brand guns have me convinced they can do something the SIG can't without the bells and whistles that many simply don't need! Your paying astronomically more for a name, reputation modularity, barrel type and caliber options, and an average of about .25MOA better. For those that don't need modularity or bells and whistles and can be happy with what the SIG offers, why isn't it enough in your opinion?
Some of you high end AR-10/AR-308 brand whores need to relax, no one said the big name guns suck, they are the best in the game for a reason but the SIG is the new Battle Rifle on the block, and although no one will force you to agree or accept the change, it has already happened. I wouldn't try to attract to much attention to you Cadillac's! SIG may take aim at your market and clean it out like they are doing to many other markets in the Gun World.
If SIG listened to some user feedback and offered modularity, the SDI Ambi lower and caliber and barrel length conversions for less than LMT, I am pretty sure some of you who have buddies who hate SIG now will find them bandwagoning later. Just like the Cross is working it's way into many circles has is the MCX and many other SIG's, the 716I may become a staple of SIG Large Frame DI success if SIG continues to refine it.
@RUTGERS95 maybe it is time you just assimilate to the 716I buddy! I am seriously kidding man, don't ever change, I appreciate your antagonist side of the story and your views. It keeps me current and on my toes and it keeps the discussion relevant and interesting.
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Hop did a great job on his 716I video highlighting features and benefits. I think he summed up how to get the most out the gun and various roles it would serve well in and some it may not. I think he also said it best when he mentioned how you can't get a better rifle for less but it still may not be the right rifle for everyone. Depending on how you plan to configure and use your 716I it could be great or underwhelming.
Throughout several threads I've started regarding the 716I exist several happy owners who have gotten exactly what they wanted and needed but there are also a few stories of owners who will never be happy with their 716I's and have sold them. What we do know is that even after a few years it is still performing well with no issues!
Good review Hop!
I heard India switched to the Aero Precision M5.
Where did you hear THAT from??
ETA: I probably missed the sarcasm. The NGSW was going to be called the M5, but Colt had already trademarked that. Then they called it the XM5, but was warned they would still be sued, so they now call it the XM7.
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lol they probably saw the video where the m5 went over 3k with no lube and failures and said game on
I do like that kid's reviews however, he's pretty balanced
it was sarcasm because we've all been hamming the OP for his homerism
all good, it's all in good fun
great review he had though!
India has made a deal to build Ak-203 in a licensing deal with Russia. Plans for upwards of 600,000 of them.
They scrapped the 716 deal. Apparently they built shit ammo then complained…
Makes one wonder if they used .311” 7.62 projectiles from 7.62x39 and 54r not knowing difference.
They scrapped the 716 deal. Apparently they built shit ammo then complained…
Makes one wonder if they used .311” 7.62 projectiles from 7.62x39 and 54r not knowing difference.
No. They probably lied and are getting the 203 for less money. Even if it is .99 USD less, they will go for it. Plus they want good Russian relations for fertilizer inputs. Without this, it will be bad for them.
How is the 718i to shoot compared to the 16" .308 SR25? Smooth?
Sorry. My inferior and socialist country is trying to ban ARs and I cannot sample one.
We are currently drawing up battle plans (Legal ect) to fight them.
Perhaps they don't want to be reliant on the western imperialists who like to use economic blocks and sanctions to force people to obey them.
Russia (and China) seem pretty happy to sell you whatever you want anytime you want, so rather than risking getting cut off if they don't toe the USA line, might as well get something you know is not going to be cut off.
they bought some and are working towards building the rest under license.
The tech transfer is likely what they are after.
they bought some and are working towards building the rest under license.
The tech transfer is likely what they are after.
You would think our old colonial friends could come up with a good design all on their own by trying really...really hard. Guess not.
They are talking about making tons of them for export too so maybe we'll get cheap Indian AKs and cheap 7.62x39 ammo.
I got mine all dialed in and then sold it to a local guy who really really wanted it lol. They run great but accuracy is meh, sig only guarantees them to 1.5MOA which is what mine shot with federal 175 match. If you want to do a gofaster setup with a red dot or a 1-4 and a light etc it's great, if you are thinking precision with a target scope and handloads not so much. Mine cost me I think 1100 used and then I added a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff to make it usable so it's not like they are costly rifles.
Also they can be rebarreled it's a DPMS bolt/barrel. Saw one with a wilson combat barrel for sale on Gunbroker not too long ago.
Also they can be rebarreled it's a DPMS bolt/barrel. Saw one with a wilson combat barrel for sale on Gunbroker not too long ago.
I shot my 716 G2 today at 600 yards with great success. 168 federal TMK. It’s an MOA gun all day
1.5 moa?
That was what I was told when I called Sig. When I shot mine on a range for groups it was a little over MOA for 100, 200 and 300 yards using good ammo.
3/4-1 MOA. Mine is the piston version of the 716. Great weapon
O k you have the piston version ok. It's a little different. Is your barrel eighteen or sixteen inches?
I haven't shot mine since upgrading my trigger, but prior too the upgrade and not being a good shot, I still shot just under 1.5MOA at 100yds.
I've been meaning to test everything out but just haven't had the chance. I do believe that with a quality trigger and fundamentals the 716I will shoot 1MOA or better.
I've been meaning to test everything out but just haven't had the chance. I do believe that with a quality trigger and fundamentals the 716I will shoot 1MOA or better.
If you want tight groups I’d look elsewhere. Something like the seekins wchich comes with a heavier/better barrel, stock with adj cheek riser etc
About 2.5 sometimes pop up used for <2. Similar price to the piston 716 these days.
I would take the piston 716-G2 all day over the Seekins. Also worth more at this time. That might just be me though. This is a 716 thread so coming on here telling everyone that they should get a seekins after the fact does not help anything. Most people aren’t buying these to be sniper rifles. DMR yes probably. At the 716 Treads price point, it’s a solid rifle.
Here is another 716 Tread Snakebite I put together. It is a 3/4 MOA with Federal GMM 168gn. Match trigger, and Sig 762-QD suppressor. Cool gun
LOL boo fuckin hoo, I actually had two of them, good carbines but not target rifles.
Who pissed in your wheaties…. Nobody said they were target rifles.
Only accurate rifles are interesting or something like that....
The SIG 716I is already hard to beat for the price but after you swap the trigger, charging handle, and the stock, It settles into a DMR role more easily, offering repeatability and reliability. Is it a bench gun, ofcourse not but it's no slouch... It can definitely hold its own.
Great explanation. The gun is solid for sure. It has a military pedigree. It has a cool factor. You get a lot of gun for the price.
disagree with you both
they run 1300-1400 which is expensive comparatively speaking. Now you talk about trigger (another $100), CH and Stock ($100) and your at over 1500-1600 before you even look to add optics or sights.
Now you are in the area where you ought to just buy LMT or Seekins
I need to see what this offers over an M5 and especially so for 30-40% more (m5 can be had for 900) and I don't have proprietary issues
they run 1300-1400 which is expensive comparatively speaking. Now you talk about trigger (another $100), CH and Stock ($100) and your at over 1500-1600 before you even look to add optics or sights.
Now you are in the area where you ought to just buy LMT or Seekins
I need to see what this offers over an M5 and especially so for 30-40% more (m5 can be had for 900) and I don't have proprietary issues
My (now sold) 716 was a 1.5" gun at best, even with painstakingly good 175 SMK reloads.
Sig basically told me the same thing-- it's not a target gun.
I agree above that once you price in the needed upgrades to make it resemble a target gun (trigger, stock with cheekrest) and quality of life upgrades (charging handle, etc.) it's a losing proposition when you still have a barely adequate barrel.
Sig basically told me the same thing-- it's not a target gun.
I agree above that once you price in the needed upgrades to make it resemble a target gun (trigger, stock with cheekrest) and quality of life upgrades (charging handle, etc.) it's a losing proposition when you still have a barely adequate barrel.
Here's mine before I sold it, would have kept it but the guy really wanted it and he bought some other stuff from me too. It was a display model pretty sure 1150 OTD and then I added a few bits:
I may think the 716I is the best AR-308/ AR-10 type Battle Rifle for the money, but I don't think its a fucking Unicorn.
The 716I is definitely not a bench gun or a target rifle, but it does float right around the +/- 1MOA line depending on the shooter and ammo. I shot my group with a base rifle, JP Springs on a base trigger with 168gr TMK's, and I am no precision shooter. I was under the impression that 1.5MOA or better is adequate for DMR/SPR type role, but I may be wrong. I have mentioned it being DMR/SPR capable IMO and I have made comparisons about it being able to run alongside KAC, LMT, LaRue, H&K, etc.... but for Battle Rifle / DMR type duty roles.
Unfortunately SIG doesn't really take this platform for much more than a Basic Battle Rifle. If SIG offered a bit more Modularity along with Caliber X-Change Kits, it could be very competitive rifle system, but not many want to take the time to develop this platform in an already saturated field because of it being highly proprietary and not having much support. For these reasons it is not that appealing to many.
If we're keeping it honest, my 716I is a $3k beast as it currently sits.
An LMT, H&K, KAC, or equivalent will cost 2 or 3 times as much especially when you ballers add in that Glass!
In regards to the AERO's and others maybe not mentioned, go ahead and buy them up! I've read the pages of owner complaints about gas or BA barrels or some shite and since I don't build, you can all save your breathe because I have no dog in the fight. If you build well I guess kudos to you because you are truly getting what you want.
One thing I still note if you peruse through the SEMI-AUTO .308 boards and go to SIG or the 716I section, you won't read repetitive echoed complaints about the 716I, whereas the boards are littered with the carcases of the many lesser rifles others always want to mention in comparison lol.
Honestly IDGAF what or who you shoot. I hope it works out for you and I hope you're happy.
The 716I is definitely not a bench gun or a target rifle, but it does float right around the +/- 1MOA line depending on the shooter and ammo. I shot my group with a base rifle, JP Springs on a base trigger with 168gr TMK's, and I am no precision shooter. I was under the impression that 1.5MOA or better is adequate for DMR/SPR type role, but I may be wrong. I have mentioned it being DMR/SPR capable IMO and I have made comparisons about it being able to run alongside KAC, LMT, LaRue, H&K, etc.... but for Battle Rifle / DMR type duty roles.
Unfortunately SIG doesn't really take this platform for much more than a Basic Battle Rifle. If SIG offered a bit more Modularity along with Caliber X-Change Kits, it could be very competitive rifle system, but not many want to take the time to develop this platform in an already saturated field because of it being highly proprietary and not having much support. For these reasons it is not that appealing to many.
If we're keeping it honest, my 716I is a $3k beast as it currently sits.
An LMT, H&K, KAC, or equivalent will cost 2 or 3 times as much especially when you ballers add in that Glass!
In regards to the AERO's and others maybe not mentioned, go ahead and buy them up! I've read the pages of owner complaints about gas or BA barrels or some shite and since I don't build, you can all save your breathe because I have no dog in the fight. If you build well I guess kudos to you because you are truly getting what you want.
One thing I still note if you peruse through the SEMI-AUTO .308 boards and go to SIG or the 716I section, you won't read repetitive echoed complaints about the 716I, whereas the boards are littered with the carcases of the many lesser rifles others always want to mention in comparison lol.
Honestly IDGAF what or who you shoot. I hope it works out for you and I hope you're happy.
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LMT for 1500-1600$??? Where? Cheapest I’ve seen LMT 308 is 2200$ and it was out of stock. Stock for 100? Why do you need a stock? Why is the M5 better? M5 gets bad mouthed on so many forums. I know nothing about it. Just saying it’s out there.
I thank you in advance if you can give us some answers.
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This is a 716 out of the box with a Leupold vx5. First group at 100 on a 3” spotter. I know it’s a three shot group but for a box blind deer gun. It will kill
Yes, the trigger break is about 10 lbs
The butt stock is tooo small. East fix, Vltor imod installed.
Yes, the trigger break is about 10 lbs
The butt stock is tooo small. East fix, Vltor imod installed.
An MDT 2 stage trigger is like 85$. Best for price IMO. I use my 716 for hunting. My nephew got this one with it. 168gn Federal TMK
