- Thread starter Im2bent
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Dude, they have been doing stuff like this since the mid 90’s. Don’t ask me how I know, I don’t feel like typing that much right now, but what I know is first hand information. The only reason they haven’t crashed planes between then and now is because of the increased reliability of the aircraft, good maintenance, and modern automation in the cockpit. Put the wrong crew together, take away the automation, throw one distraction at them, and you’ll read about it on the papers.
I’ve flown with a number of minorities throughout my career from either seat. Two of them, both males, were some of the worst pilots I’ve ever flown with; I was an FO at the time. One of them is dead because he did several stupid things and crashed, the other one got fired, they had that much crap on him. I’ve flown with one minority female FO and she was hoot and a holler in a good way, I’d choose her as my FO any day. She is a great airman with an entertaining personality. My airline, obviously, doesn’t have the same hiring practices as United.
It’s not something to worry about too much right now, but in 10-15 years, oh boy if they are successful with those hiring stats. My guess is they will not be as it’s not possible.
I’ve flown with a number of minorities throughout my career from either seat. Two of them, both males, were some of the worst pilots I’ve ever flown with; I was an FO at the time. One of them is dead because he did several stupid things and crashed, the other one got fired, they had that much crap on him. I’ve flown with one minority female FO and she was hoot and a holler in a good way, I’d choose her as my FO any day. She is a great airman with an entertaining personality. My airline, obviously, doesn’t have the same hiring practices as United.
It’s not something to worry about too much right now, but in 10-15 years, oh boy if they are successful with those hiring stats. My guess is they will not be as it’s not possible.
This stuff for sure has been going on for some time now. Airlines are more concerned with profit than safety. Not saying flying isn’t safe but if it comes to them parking planes due to staffing or putting FO’s in the right seat who aren’t “qualified”, they will pick the later. The new generation of FO’s I’ve flown with are more concerned with their cell phones and with what the “book” says instead of applying practical knowledge and real world experience. But of course these young ones know it all and can’t be told anything otherwise. And now with all the equality and feelings bullshit, you have to tread lightly how you handle these situations or you’ll be the one loosing your job. It’s only going to get worse not better. I know of an airline right now that can’t hire because management doesn’t want to negotiate and pay the pilots what they deserve, so management has now turned to hiring foreign pilots on visa. Standards are being lowered for anyone other than the white male. Seen it numerous times.
There should be an organized mass troll campaign to switch the "equity" and "inclusive" around in DEI so the acronym becomes "DIE" instead. Narcissistic leftists do not like their shitty pride and joys fucked around with and the mass adaptation of the new acronym should create interesting meltdowns...
It‘s been going on for years. I will say, the airline I fly for so a darn good job of hiring people and it’s extremely rare I fly with a weak FO. I had one that stood out about three years ago, and not in a good way. He was new, but totally not teachable; white male too. After a whole bid period of “what are you doing and why”, I called his IOE instructor and started the conversation with, “Why the heck did you sign this guy off”? Ha, the IOE instructor said he didn’t sign him off because he couldn’t. He had done twice the IOE hours of what’s normal and still wouldn’t bow to pressure and sign him off. Turns out management pilot flew one leg with him and signed him off. I called the management pilot and started the conversation the same way. After an hour of bending his ear regarding all the nonsense I had seen during the bid period he agreed to look into it. Two months later, that FO was gone. They took their time to dot their i’s and cross their t’s, but they did get rid of him.……..I wonder if he’s at United now
.United has long been a “train to proficiency” airline. Some things you can’t train and thats a problem. Your are either a jet pilot or you’re not and you can think and make decisions like one or you can’t. If you are not, you might be able to train to proficiency for a checkride and get signed off, but you can’t train all the scenarios you will face on the line in the sim; you have to be able to think like jet pilot, and if you can’t, you’re a danger. Some people can pass rides, but they can’t think and that’s a big problem if you have two of them in the cockpit.
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And damn, the next ‘retread’ (121 retired to 135 ops guy) who asks me to create a standardized program, I’m going to go nuts because they don’t realize that the training program is accepted by the FAA, not acknowledged like a GOM, meaning, I can’t change it because we think it would be more fun.
121 pilots’s understanding of regs (outside of their scope) is way low probably due to structure and unions
121 pilots’s understanding of regs (outside of their scope) is way low probably due to structure and unions
It‘s been going on for years. I will say, the airline I fly for so a darn good job of hiring people and it’s extremely rare I fly with a weak FO. I had one that stood out about three years ago, and not in a good way. He was new, but totally not teachable; white male too. After a whole bid period of “what are you doing and why”, I called his IOE instructor and started the conversation with, “Why the heck did you sign this guy off”? Ha, the IOE instructor said he didn’t sign him off because he couldn’t. He had done twice the IOE hours of what’s normal and still wouldn’t bow to pressure and sign him off. Turns out management pilot flew one leg with him and signed him off. I called the management pilot and started the conversation the same way. After an hour of bending his ear regarding all the nonsense I had seen during the bid period he agreed to look into it. Two months later, that FO was gone. They took their time to dot their i’s and cross their t’s, but they did get rid of him.……..I wonder if he’s at United now
United has long been a “train to proficiency” airline. Some things you can’t train and thats a problem. Your are either a jet pilot or your not and you can think and make decisions like one or you can’t. If you are not, you might be able to train to proficiency for a checkride and get signed off, but you can’t train all the scenarios you will face on the line in the sim; you have to be able to think like jet pilot, and if you can’t, you’re a danger. Some people can pass rides, but they can’t think and that’s a big problem if you have two of them in the cockpit.
We don't teach this anymore, and have not for a long time. It shows, and makes me want to pull what is left of my hair out.
Wait, are you telling me he called and said it is not working, you went up and looked at it, decided you could not fix it and just left. Not telling anything about this entire event to management or the rest of the staff?
Ahhhh guess so.
I am also in the process of doing i' and t's. I can't have this.
I am reminded of the movie, "Flight." Denzel Washington is a hard-partying pilot but his quick reflexes and intuition saved a bunch of lives.
But he still got shit canned and prosecuted because he was positive for substances. You know the audience was thinking, "I would still rather have him as my pilot than a by-the-book guy."
Or "Sully." That movie, from what I could tell, was nearly a documentary. And yes, plenty of people did question his landing on the Hudson River. Not a single person was injured or killed. He was hired based on his skills and ability. And actually, he was following procedure, as was his co-pilot.
We need pilots like that, not someone who gets "deer in the headlights" syndrome.
Which reminds me of my favorite Ron White bit.
But he still got shit canned and prosecuted because he was positive for substances. You know the audience was thinking, "I would still rather have him as my pilot than a by-the-book guy."
Or "Sully." That movie, from what I could tell, was nearly a documentary. And yes, plenty of people did question his landing on the Hudson River. Not a single person was injured or killed. He was hired based on his skills and ability. And actually, he was following procedure, as was his co-pilot.
We need pilots like that, not someone who gets "deer in the headlights" syndrome.
Which reminds me of my favorite Ron White bit.
I started doing that as soon as I saw the acronym and it’s fucking retarded meaning
This guy's YT channel is great if you're into aviation or have a morbid curiosity about plane crashes. He's a commercial pilot himself, and breaks down in exquisite detail, every aspect of aviation accidents. Here's his video on the United airlines flight the OP posted.
Thats very true. My career progression was 135, Part 91 Corporate, then 121 Airline. You are on your own with the first two and you better learn to think quick or you will end up dead; especially flying air ambulance at night in and out of Mexico long before GPWS, terrain following, and GPS…….just you, a VOR, and a paper map with airways and minimum en route altitudes and a mexican controller who sounds like he’s in a tin shack who will clear you to altitudes below the MEA’s and expects you to know when it’s safe to descend and when it’s not. We are definitely pampered poodles flying 121 with all the bells and whistles.
When people miss the you’re on your own real world experiences and they are coddled like they appear to be at the United training school, they often don’t perform very well outside the boundaries of their experience. Oh, they can pass a check ride and they know the book, but they can’t appropriately respond when faced with a situation they haven’t been in before; they tend to freeze, forget to fly the plane, which is the first priority, and then react very slowly, sometimes too slowly. United needs to make all their flight school graduates fly 135 freight in the middle of the night before they go to one of their commuter airlines.
Can you imagine what will happen when these coddled people end up in a single pilot operation if they allow that someday ??
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