Trump tariff on mexican imports until illegal immigrantion stops

[pmclaine]

We dont need one new law nor one more agent to have a secure border.

We are not enforcing the laws already on the books.

If we did the problem would go away.

Activist judges and politicians more concerned with party over nation are the problem.

 

[308pirate]

My wife immigrated here legally from England. Because of where she is from and what she looks like, her entry into our country has been very difficult. To date we have spent just shy of $6,000 for filing fees and lawyer fees with immigration.

I had to prove my financial status was on par to support her, and file affidavits affirming she is my sole responsibility. Tell me how the hell our social services AND social security offices are full of immigrants?

Want to immigrate? Get in the same fucking line my wife has had to wait in.
As you might imagine, she hates illegal immigration. She works, and pays taxes. She is also an ardent second amendment proponent, and carries.
When she first came over she did not understand our "fascination" with guns. After "experiencing" the real USA, she has a much firmer grasp of reality. Her words:
"When you are over there(England), the only thing you know about USA is the cities. I had no idea how vast and beautiful this country is. The real people of this country seem to have little voice, and have been terribly maligned and marginalized."

She thought I was some kind of barbarian throwback.....until she lived here a while. I'll never forget the look on her face when I opened my gunsafe. The first trip to a gunshow was also entertaining. "So....you can just buy any of this stuff?"
"Yep....for now. When you can't, you'll see why it was so important."

It's not just legal immigrants from Europe that go through all that shit. It's legal immigrants from just about anywhere.

One of my wife's friends fell in love with a guy from the Dominican Republic while in university. He was here legally on a student visa. They got married and he applied for a green card. He went through all the shit you describe and while waiting he needed to leave the US periodically and go back to the DR for X many months before being readmitted temporarily. He did that shit for at least 18 months that I remember even after their first kid was born.

The guy went through all the hoops without fail and it sucked big time for them. I haven't asked him about illegals, but I suspect he has no love for motherfuckers who ignore all the suck he had to put up with and still get rewarded. BTW his son is now a USNA graduate and serving in submarines.

 

[Fig]

You’re an ignorant idiot who doesn’t understand what’s going on. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR BP AGENTS TO TURN THEMSELVES IN!!!

They WANT to be “caught”. They know EXACTLY what to say, claim they want asylum, and if they rent kids they don’t even get detained for an hour! Putting more people on the border just means they can turn themselves in to more people.

Wake up. It has nothing to do with the size of the BP, ICE or anything else. It’s the law that’s the problem. It's the law that's broken and being gamed. The fact that once they set foot here they have rights, which is elementary, IS the problem. We have to prevent them from setting foot in America. That's the only way.

A wall is the only thing that will STOP this cold, because the left does want unfettered and uncontrolled immigration, and you're a fool if you don't understand that blindingly clear fact.

 

[pmclaine]

You’re an ignorant idiot who doesn’t understand what’s going on. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR BP AGENTS TO TURN THEMSELVES IN!!!

They WANT to be “caught”. They know EXACTLY what to say, claim they want asylum, and if they rent kids they don’t even get detained for an hour! Putting more people on the border just means they can turn themselves in to more people.

Wake up. It has nothing to do with the size of the BP, ICE or anything else. It’s the law that’s the problem. It's the law that's broken and being gamed. The fact that once they set foot here they have rights, which is elementary, IS the problem. We have to prevent them from setting foot in America. That's the only way.

A wall is the only thing that will STOP this cold, because the left does want unfettered and uncontrolled immigration, and you're a fool if you don't understand that blindingly clear fact.

She understands, thats the problem.

 

[Jscb1b]

No benefits. No anchor babies. No rights. No work. No problems.

 

[supercorndogs]

No kidding.

 

[Fig]

I don’t know why you expect me to engage with you when the conclusions you’ve drawn from what I’ve posted are so incredibly unreasonable.

I'm going to comment on your posts because tearing apart inane, leftists ideology is one of my many hobbies. Do not mistake that for "engagement".

"Engaging" and discussing policy with someone who disagrees about the most basic facts and truths of the human condition is worthless. Having a meaningful discussion with someone who creates their own virtues, their own vices, their own morality, and their own value system is not just impossible, it's idiotic. I have no desire to talk past you and over you, and I'm not going to waste my time trying to influence a leftist who comes on a precision shooting website to argue.

I would not go onto a communist crocheting website to engage in debate, but there you are. I certainly wouldn't start by saying I was a yarn salesman looking for what their favorite shade of red was.

But, proceed...

 

[Rthur]

How in the world do you conclude that I support open borders? I’m saying that it’s literally impossible for Mexico to stop all illegal immigration from Mexico. The US can’t do it. How is Mexico supposed to do it? And the escalating tariff isn’t imposed conditioned on Mexico making an effort or stopping caravans. It’s an openly unreasonable terminating condition. That doesn’t make me an open borders advocate. I’ll tell you what I do think, and that’s the only way to hold a piece of land is to put a man on it. Vastly increasing the number of border patrol agents would be effective and it’s a job creator. Walls and tariffs aren’t going to get it done. They are empty gestures aimed at continuing the problem so the politicians can continue to leverage it for reelection.

Eliminate the draw and this problem will be much easier to solve.
Our border with Mexico is around 1954 miles.
Mexico's southern border is 541 miles.
A wall is an integral part of what is required to create successful border control.
We have all the tools to curb this invasion but lack the political will (Dems and Repubs) to implement it.
Previous and current elected officials are openly inviting the hoard.
Visa programs are screwing many levels of indigenous workers.
Mexico has gotten fat and belligerent off of this game.
Look into HSBC's money laundering of drug monies coming from the north.
Just a sample of the culture south of our border.

R

 

[hlee]

no they get fat

Ban tortilla chips...

 

[Mr.BR]

Starting in june, goes up 5% per month until Mexico stops the illegals coming in. I love it! Now if he can just put a tariff on the cash being sent to other countries from all these illegals sending their welfare money back to their home countries.

= US consumer will be paying tarrifs 5% per month increasing to 25% on imported goods from Mexico much of it made by US owned companies -until Mexico stops illegals coming in .


I see people realy need a quick peek at Economy 101 . Tarrifs are imposed on you ,you pay them in full 100% ,often actualy far more than 100% as companies take the excuse tariffs provide and slap some added margins on top of tarrifed goods and even products that are not targeted in tarrifs just because they can and consumers are beyond stupid.

 

[pmclaine]

Ban tortilla chips...

Its a "Keto" diet......not a "Quito" diet.

 

[Rthur]

= US consumer will be paying tarrifs 5% per month increasing to 25% on imported goods from Mexico much of it made by US owned companies -until Mexico stops illegals coming in .


I see people realy need a quick peek at Economy 101 . Tarrifs are imposed on you ,you pay them in full 100% ,often actualy far more than 100% as companies take the excuse tariffs provide and slap some added margins on top of tarrifed goods and even products that are not targeted in tarrifs just because they can and consumers are beyond stupid.

What are the necessities from Mexico?

R

 

[pmclaine]

= US consumer will be paying tarrifs 5% per month increasing to 25% on imported goods from Mexico much of it made by US owned companies -until Mexico stops illegals coming in .


I see people realy need a quick peek at Economy 101 . Tarrifs are imposed on you ,you pay them in full 100% ,often actualy far more than 100% as companies take the excuse tariffs provide and slap some added margins on top of tarrifed goods and even products that are not targeted in tarrifs just because they can and consumers are beyond stupid.

Dont give a shit.

Bring those manufacturers back north of the border.

More people working, more jobs in USA.

China thinks we are scared because they will tarriff rare earths.

We have that shit in spades.

Our EPA and OSHA make it cheaper to get from China

until....

China raises its prices and the stupid over regulation gets cut.

More jobs.....more strategic independence.

Go ahead China do it.

 

[Fig]

= US consumer will be paying tarrifs 5% per month increasing to 25% on imported goods from Mexico much of it made by US owned companies -until Mexico stops illegals coming in .


I see people realy need a quick peek at Economy 101 . Tarrifs are imposed on you ,you pay them in full 100% ,often actualy far more than 100% as companies take the excuse tariffs provide and slap some added margins on top of tarrifed goods and even products that are not targeted in tarrifs just because they can and consumers are beyond stupid.

Duh, till the get so expensive you won’t pay them, and you have to buy American because now it’s cheaper...duh. Tell us, Milton Friedman, what do they make in Mexico that can’t be made here? Since you’re an economist you must understand how an economy reacts to a vacuum....don’t you?

 

[pmclaine]

What are the necessities from Mexico?

R

Multi colored blankets.

 

[diverdon]

Multi colored blankets.

Do we really need Rapists, and Drug dealers?

 

[ArmyJerry]

Milton gave us the payroll tax where the employer takes your money and give it to the fedgov.

Duh, till the get so expensive you won’t pay them, and you have to buy American because now it’s cheaper...duh. Tell us, Milton Friedman, what do they make in Mexico that can’t be made here? Since you’re an economist you must understand how an economy reacts to a vacuum....don’t you?

 

[Mr.BR]

Duh, till the get so expensive you won’t pay them, and you have to buy American because now it’s cheaper...duh. Tell us, Milton Friedman, what do the make in Mexico that can’t be made here? Since you’re an economist you must understand how an economy reacts to a vacuum....don’t you?

whole point of stuff being made abroad?

You can make everything in US as long as you are prepared to pay premium for that ,no argument with that, companies offshored production to make more money and consumers buy cheap.

Do you think US consumer is actualy willing to pay much more for the stuff he doesnt realy need ? If anything consumer is much more of a cheap skate than he ever was.

Companies continue to outsurce,some production will move to US but most of manufacturing will just move into next low wage location .

 

[308pirate]

= US consumer will be paying tarrifs 5% per month increasing to 25% on imported goods from Mexico much of it made by US owned companies -until Mexico stops illegals coming in .


I see people realy need a quick peek at Economy 101 . Tarrifs are imposed on you ,you pay them in full 100% ,often actualy far more than 100% as companies take the excuse tariffs provide and slap some added margins on top of tarrifed goods and even products that are not targeted in tarrifs just because they can and consumers are beyond stupid.

​

 

[pmclaine]

Do we really need Rapists, and Drug dealers?

Hey they are just committing the rapes and dealing the drugs lazy Americans wont do....

They are valedictorians after all.

 

[pmclaine]

whole point of stuff being made abroad?

You can make everything in US as long as you are prepared to pay premium for that ,no argument with that, companies offshored production to make more money and consumers buy cheap.

Do you think US consumer is actualy willing to pay much more for the stuff he doesnt realy need ? If anything consumer is much more of a cheap skate than he ever was.

Companies continue to outsurce,some production will move to US but most of manufacturing will just move into next low wage location .

Companies off shored production because our regulation and unions suck.

So we allow slave labor and kids being fed into industrial machinery and pollution overseas?

If they dont build to our standards fuck em.

Rather make the conscious choice to pay for an American product rather than have the govt take that equal cost out of my pay check keeping that American on the couch waiting for his check.

Did you get your economics degree at BU with AOC?

 

[Fig]

whole point of stuff being made abroad?

You can make everything in US as long as you are prepared to pay premium for that ,no argument with that, companies offshored production to make more money and consumers buy cheap.

Do you think US consumer is actualy willing to pay much more for the stuff he doesnt realy need ? If anything consumer is much more of a cheap skate than he ever was.

Companies continue to outsurce,some production will move to US but most of manufacturing will just move into next low wage location .

EXACTLY! So your criticism is bogus. Trump is not seeking any sort of medium or long term trade advantage with Mexico. He's using a short term leverage to get a policy change that is only ancillary to trade and the economy.

How is this any different than linking trade to human rights or any other bad policy we care about? It isn't. You're just freaking out because of Trump derangement syndrome, and the fear that Mexico may actually do something that is helpful rather than further damaging. Their immigration system is positively draconian, but they allow a mass of humanity passage to become our problem. A wall across their Southern border would be nothing compared to a 5% tariff. Wana bet they build it posthaste?

The odds that these tariffs become ongoing and persistent is extremely low, because while Trump is stupid in a lot of ways, understanding leverage and negotiations is not one of them. No 3d chess necessary. This is basic checkers. Mexico will take the easy way out rather than suffering to make some left wing point they don't care about.

Your post is nothing but projection.

 

[SIlabs]

A few simple truths: 1) tariffs are a tax and when you tax more you get less = less production and less demand. 2) You grow an economy by improved productivity and population growth 3) We currently have sub 4% unemployment, by most measures full or close to full employment. 4) Trade and immigration are two separate things. 5) If you want to curtail or stop illegal immigration enforce the laws on the books, including taking action against people and companies employing illegals - guess what costs will go up - and fix the laws......not bullshit Executive Orders and Presidential overreach.....no matter what party.....

 

[Mwalex]

How in the world do you conclude that I support open borders? I’m saying that it’s literally impossible for Mexico to stop all illegal immigration from Mexico. The US can’t do it. How is Mexico supposed to do it? And the escalating tariff isn’t imposed conditioned on Mexico making an effort or stopping caravans. It’s an openly unreasonable terminating condition. That doesn’t make me an open borders advocate. I’ll tell you what I do think, and that’s the only way to hold a piece of land is to put a man on it. Vastly increasing the number of border patrol agents would be effective and it’s a job creator. Walls and tariffs aren’t going to get it done. They are empty gestures aimed at continuing the problem so the politicians can continue to leverage it for reelection.

On that point you are absolutely wrong. The US CAN stop illegal immigration but they are being blocked by the current Communist party. Stopping illegals would greatly hamper the Demokrats plans to swamp the voter booths with people that will dedicate their votes to the destruction of this country.

 

[Maggot]

In the school yard if a kid who has been picked on punches the bully in the nose do we say "he has become worse than the bully" or do we say "about time he stood up for him self?"

NO argument with that but this isnt the school yard. Here, if you dont like someone or their posts, do what LL suggests: Block them. If everyone blocked them intstead of arguing and playing to the Troll...Problem solved.

 

[Rthur]

A few simple truths: 1) tariffs are a tax and when you tax more you get less = less production and less demand. 2) You grow an economy by improved productivity and population growth 3) We currently have sub 4% unemployment, by most measures full or close to full employment. 4) Trade and immigration are two separate things. 5) If you want to curtail or stop illegal immigration enforce the laws on the books, including taking action against people and companies employing illegals - guess what costs will go up - and fix the laws......not bullshit Executive Orders and Presidential overreach.....no matter what party.....

I'm more interested in growing our economy than Mexico's or China's.

R

 

[Rthur]

NO argument with that but this isnt the school yard. Here, if you dont like someone or their posts, do what LL suggests: Block them. If everyone blocked them intstead of arguing and playing to the Troll...Problem solved.

Same mindset that lead to punishing those who would stand up against the bully/for the weak.
Ignoring a bully isn't a sound strategy.

R

 

[SIlabs]

I'm more interested in growing our economy than Mexico's or China's.

R

That's not going to happen with increasing tariffs, etc. A large portion of the S&P 500 companies have vast operations around the world....and these are among the largest employers in the US.

All for growing the US economy but it's not going to happen without global trade....

 

[diverdon]

NO argument with that but this isnt the school yard. Here, if you dont like someone or their posts, do what LL suggests: Block them. If everyone blocked them intstead of arguing and playing to the Troll...Problem solved.

My post has nothing to do with any member of snipershide. As you are aware (I hope) sometimes people speculate that someday a violent response to leftist violence may be necessary. My post was only to frame a way to look at that response should it ever happen.

 

[diverdon]

That's not going to happen with increasing tariffs, etc. A large portion of the S&P 500 companies have vast operations around the world....and these are among the largest employers in the US.

All for growing the US economy but it's not going to happen without global trade....

Perhaps you ment to say Fair Global Trade? If that is not what you ment then you are wrong. Much better we have fair trade or no trade.

 

[Mwalex]

That's not going to happen with increasing tariffs, etc. A large portion of the S&P 500 companies have vast operations around the world....and these are among the largest employers in the US.

All for growing the US economy but it's not going to happen without global trade....

The long term objective is not to increase tariffs, everyone involved with the trade discussions is aware of the impact that would have on the global economy. The driver is to open boarders to increased exports from the US, which would grow the economy, and should reduce the tariffs. Countries like China and Japan have always limited access to their markets by US products and this is an attempt to change that. But we all know how this works.

 

[ArmyJerry]

fukem, lets starve the fuckers... maybe the populations will have a revolution and install a republican form of government and get a bill of rights that guarantees them the right to be armed and keep their own goddam money.

 

[Tucker301]

The simple solution regarding illegal immigration is to

1. Deincentivize not working for the heathly and capable in the US population so that the jobs honey pot is less full.

2. Deincentivize any and all illegal migration. No free school. No free healthcare. Treat them as the criminals they are, whether they knew they were committing a crime or not.

3. Educate potential migrants as to the legal requirements and the consequences of illegal immigration.

4. Work with the countries with whom we share terrestrial borders to help develop better conditions and opportunities in their own nations. For example, I'd just as soon have my cheap shit made in Mexico or Honduras as in China.

 

[SIlabs]

Perhaps you ment to say Fair Global Trade? If that is not what you ment then you are wrong. Much better we have fair trade or no trade.

That's just plain silly...of course most want fair trade but every country, company, etc. may have a different view of what is fair....protectionist policies have been a failure throughout history, started world wars....

There is nothing wrong with going after China for unfair trade but at least bring your allies along in the fight instead of going it alone and allowing those same allies to pick-up the crumbs that are left behind...

If you wish to go back to the 1950s or support the next recession have at it....thinking there are much better ways to solve problems than with a sledgehammer...

 

[Mwalex]

The simple solution regarding illegal immigration is to

1. Deincentivize not working for the heathly and capable in the US population so that the jobs honey pot is less full.

2. Deincentivize any and all illegal migration. No free school. No free healthcare. Treat them as the criminals they are, whether they knew they were committing a crime or not.

3. Educate potential migrants as to the legal requirements and the consequences of illegal immigration.

4. Work with the countries with whom we share terrestrial borders to help develop better conditions and opportunities in their own nations. For example, I'd just as soon have my cheap shit made in Mexico or Honduras as in China.

 

[308pirate]

whole point of stuff being made abroad?

You can make everything in US as long as you are prepared to pay premium for that ,no argument with that, companies offshored production to make more money and consumers buy cheap.

Do you think US consumer is actualy willing to pay much more for the stuff he doesnt realy need ? If anything consumer is much more of a cheap skate than he ever was.

Companies continue to outsurce,some production will move to US but most of manufacturing will just move into next low wage location .

What's your subject matter expertise in manufacturing business management? Serious question.

Have you ever run a mfg business, of any size?

 

[308pirate]

BTW, seems like someone is paying attention to the tariff increases: https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexican-president-obrador-trump-letter-tariff

Squealing like a pig

 

[Fig]

It's a she.

You know. Fuck you right wing assholes with gender roles! Until I hear directly how the entity sees his/her/itself I’m not going to just assign the role and gender I think fits. Man, I hate you racist, homophobic bastards!

 

[SIlabs]

The long term objective is not to increase tariffs, everyone involved with the trade discussions is aware of the impact that would have on the global economy. The driver is to open boarders to increased exports from the US, which would grow the economy, and should reduce the tariffs. Countries like China and Japan have always limited access to their markets by US products and this is an attempt to change that. But we all know how this works.

Of course we know what the objective is....but there better ways to influence and make an impact....including using your allies to assist in changing behavior....

 

[Mwalex]

Of course we know what the objective is....but there better ways to influence and make an impact....including using your allies to assist in changing behavior....

No one uses allies in trade discussions because that makes ZERO sense. There is no benefit to having "allies" sitting at the table because the agreements are always country-to-country, not country-to-countries unless one country is an aggregate like the EU.

How many cases can you name where a country pulled allies into a discussion concerning trade?

 

[SIlabs]

No one uses allies in trade discussions because that makes ZERO sense. There is no benefit to having "allies" sitting at the table because the agreements are always country-to-country, not country-to-countries unless one country is an aggregate like the EU.

How many cases can you name where a country pulled allies into a discussion concerning trade?

Most trade deals are made among and between allies....too think that allies are not used in trade discussions and negotiations is rather a simplistic thought....of course allies may have differing interests but that is part of a process......agreements are not always just between two parties....TPP, NAFTA, etc. etc....

 

[Rthur]

Of course we know what the objective is....but there better ways to influence and make an impact....including using your allies to assist in changing behavior....

Such as?
We've been giving the FU by a majority of countries we've traded with.
The reason we've gotten here is a combination of regulatory bs and shit trade agreements.
We developed the highest middle class standards in the world by being a strong manufacturing
base, strategic reasons are a good side effect.
The playing field has been tilted by foreign government intervention into the businesses in their realm.
The whole service industry base BS was a placation to those who've been sold out.
The truth was a concentration of wealth at the very top of corps lobbied by same.
For the first time ever we have an idividual in the WH who has direct knowledge of how trade
works in the global environment.

R

 

[Rthur]

Most trade deals are made among and between allies....too think that allies are not used in trade discussions and negotiations is rather a simplistic thought....of course allies may have differing interests but that is part of a process......agreements are not always just between two parties....TPP, NAFTA, etc. etc....

In the business world allies is/are a fabrication.

R

 

[diverdon]

That's just plain silly...of course most want fair trade but every country, company, etc. may have a different view of what is fair....protectionist policies have been a failure throughout history, started world wars....

There is nothing wrong with going after China for unfair trade but at least bring your allies along in the fight instead of going it alone and allowing those same allies to pick-up the crumbs that are left behind...

If you wish to go back to the 1950s or support the next recession have at it....thinking there are much better ways to solve problems than with a sledgehammer...

Not even 1% as silly as tolerating the status quo.

 

[ArmyJerry]

dumass

Of course we know what the objective is....but there better ways to influence and make an impact....including using your allies to assist in changing behavior....

 

[SIlabs]

Such as?
We've been giving the FU by a majority of countries we've traded with.
The reason we've gotten here is a combination of regulatory bs and shit trade agreements.
We developed the highest middle class standards in the world by being a strong manufacturing
base, strategic reasons are a good side effect.
The playing field has been tilted by foreign government intervention into the businesses in their realm.
The whole service industry base BS was a placation to those who've been sold out.
The truth was a concentration of wealth at the very top of corps lobbied by same.
For the first time ever we have an idividual in the WH who has direct knowledge of how trade
works in the global environment.

R

Small ball thinking....the US remains the greatest economic and strategic power on earth....it will continue....as long as we have the freedom to innovate and create....importing cheap goods allows us to improve our standard of living...just ask Walmart shoppers how much they like the cheap goods....

 

[Mr.BR]

Companies off shored production because our regulation and unions suck.

So we allow slave labor and kids being fed into industrial machinery and pollution overseas?

If they dont build to our standards fuck em.

Rather make the conscious choice to pay for an American product rather than have the govt take that equal cost out of my pay check keeping that American on the couch waiting for his check.

Did you get your economics degree at BU with AOC?

You can tell youself that , you havent seen regulation or Unions till you come to Europe .

In some cases like car industry , manufacturers just dozed off and became totaly uncompetitive . Same happened to many other industries.

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much

A BMW assembly plant in Leipzig, Germany. In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germany's [...]

www.forbes.com

Apple and other tech giants probably needed Foxcon factories for the unions and regulations .

I understand the reasoning for paying the premium for made in US , but wast majority of consumers will continue to buy bargain stuff no mater where is made. And the well monied folks will continue to buy expensive imports . Cheap imports do improve standard for the not to well monied folks.

 

[SIlabs]

dumass

learn how to spell or type...

 

[Mwalex]

Most trade deals are made among and between allies....too think that allies are not used in trade discussions and negotiations is rather a simplistic thought....of course allies may have differing interests but that is part of a process......agreements are not always just between two parties....TPP, NAFTA, etc. etc....

You just don't get how this works. Trade deals can be done between two countries that are allies, of course, BUT give me ONE example of a situation where two countries are at a stalemate, like the US and China currently are, AND an ally joined the discussion as being a third party and worked out a multilateral trade agreement between all three.

We might have different definitions for "ally".

 

[Rthur]

Small ball thinking....the US remains the greatest economic and strategic power on earth....it will continue....as long as we have the freedom to innovate and create....importing cheap goods allows us to improve our standard of living...just ask Walmart shoppers how much they like the cheap goods....

Lol
You've a rose colored glasses syndrome concerning China.
Review the following and consider the end game:

Cheap shit from China died a while back.
Walmart isn't a good choice to strengthen your argument.


R