Unlimited budget .308. What you choosing?

reubenski

Supporter
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Supporter+
Jun 8, 2008
7,460
8,460
To
It blows my mind that a reworked Rem 700 action bedded into a McMillan stock, and barreled with a Krieger barrel is famed to be any more durable than a Rem 700 or custom action barreled with any other well regarded barrel, bedded into another Manners or McMillan stock put together by any of the other top 10 gunsmiths in the nation.
 

roamin

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 11, 2017
749
659
Now an AX I understand but...

TacOps???

A reworked and rebarreled 700 over a custom????

Seriously??

I had to check three times to make sure this wasn't an old thread from 2003 or a time before custom actions, the AI AT, or the AI AX existed back when your only options were to rework a 700. In 2019 we have better options with an unlimited bugdet I wouldn't look twice at a TacOps.

IMO there isn't even anything brand-able about a TacOps rifle they just assemble other people parts and smith a 700 action in the same way any other good smith can do it so when people say it's "a TacOps" I'm thinking no it's a custom 700.
 

roamin

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 11, 2017
749
659
if you want accuracy gas guns are not in this conversation

Bullshet.

I have an AX and Mega AR built with top end parts; Krieger, JP BCG, Geissele National Match.... They shoot the same the last 5x5 I shot with the AR and 5x4 with the AX were separated by 0.1 MOA. Anymore accuracy isn't what separates rifle's nowadays it seems like most rifles come with a sub MOA guarantee even a $300 Thompson Compass comes with one and it delivers on it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: man32ahan

M338

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 2, 2011
265
179
44
Australia
Now an AX I understand but...

TacOps???

A reworked and rebarreled 700 over a custom????

Seriously??

I had to check three times to make sure this wasn't an old thread from 2003 or a time before custom actions, the AI AT, or the AI AX existed back when your only options were to rework a 700. In 2019 we have better options with an unlimited bugdet I wouldn't look twice at a TacOps.

IMO there isn't even anything brand-able about a TacOps rifle they just assemble other people parts and smith a 700 action in the same way any other good smith can do it so when people say it's "a TacOps" I'm thinking no it's a custom 700.
So sorry TacOps owners you heard it right here!
You should take them all back to Mike and get a refund,this guy knows.
 

NukeMMC

Chlanna Nan Con Thigibh A’ So ‘S Gheibh Sibh Feòil
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Supporter+
  • Mar 3, 2009
    1,654
    990
    Harrisburg, PA
    Now an AX I understand but...

    TacOps???

    A reworked and rebarreled 700 over a custom????

    Seriously??

    I had to check three times to make sure this wasn't an old thread from 2003 or a time before custom actions, the AI AT, or the AI AX existed back when your only options were to rework a 700. In 2019 we have better options with an unlimited bugdet I wouldn't look twice at a TacOps.

    IMO there isn't even anything brand-able about a TacOps rifle they just assemble other people parts and smith a 700 action in the same way any other good smith can do it so when people say it's "a TacOps" I'm thinking no it's a custom 700.
    You have obviously never had your dick skinners on one. I have an AIAX and an RWS 300wm and a friend has an XRay. The attention to detail, quality of machining, fit and finish are at a next level to any other I have seen or used. There is a reason so many alphabet-soup heavy hitters use them.
    By the way, a TacOps rifle comes with a 1/4moa guarantee, not <1moa. Each rifle comes with a test target Mike R normally shoots himself.
     

    NukeMMC

    Chlanna Nan Con Thigibh A’ So ‘S Gheibh Sibh Feòil
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Mar 3, 2009
    1,654
    990
    Harrisburg, PA
    Bullshet.

    I have an AX and Mega AR built with top end parts; Krieger, JP BCG, Geissele National Match.... They shoot the same the last 5x5 I shot with the AR and 5x4 with the AX were separated by 0.1 MOA. Anymore accuracy isn't what separates rifle's nowadays it seems like most rifles come with a sub MOA guarantee even a $300 Thompson Compass comes with one and it delivers on it.
    I also have a JP barrel 6.5cm and Proof 308 barrel on my Maten MKM. It's close to my 260 or 308 AX but not quite. The XRay I shot beat both easily.
    Personally, I'm not as good a shooter as any of the 3, but cannot swing buying a TacOps right now. It is on my to-get list though.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    reubenski

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Jun 8, 2008
    7,460
    8,460
    To
    You have obviously never had your dick skinners on one. I have an AIAX and an RWS 300wm and a friend has an XRay. The attention to detail, quality of machining, fit and finish are at a next level to any other I have seen or used. There is a reason so many alphabet-soup heavy hitters use them.
    By the way, a TacOps rifle comes with a 1/4moa guarantee, not <1moa. Each rifle comes with a test target Mike R normally shoots himself.
    Industrial shooters give two shits about fit and finish. And sub- quarter moa groups at 100.
     

    shooter65

    General
    Banned !
    Minuteman
  • Jun 19, 2004
    7,237
    49,417
    58
    Indiana
    Now an AX I understand but...

    TacOps???

    A reworked and rebarreled 700 over a custom????

    Seriously??

    I had to check three times to make sure this wasn't an old thread from 2003 or a time before custom actions, the AI AT, or the AI AX existed back when your only options were to rework a 700. In 2019 we have better options with an unlimited bugdet I wouldn't look twice at a TacOps.

    IMO there isn't even anything brand-able about a TacOps rifle they just assemble other people parts and smith a 700 action in the same way any other good smith can do it so when people say it's "a TacOps" I'm thinking no it's a custom 700.


    ???
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Oct 1, 2005
    12,539
    25,839
    Dallas, TX
    Now an AX I understand but...
    TacOps???
    A reworked and rebarreled 700 over a custom????
    Seriously??
    I had to check three times to make sure this wasn't an old thread from 2003 or a time before custom actions, the AI AT, or the AI AX existed back when your only options were to rework a 700. In 2019 we have better options with an unlimited bugdet I wouldn't look twice at a TacOps.
    IMO there isn't even anything brand-able about a TacOps rifle they just assemble other people parts and smith a 700 action in the same way any other good smith can do it so when people say it's "a TacOps" I'm thinking no it's a custom 700.


    If want something that will impress your buddies, look cool at the range, be a great conversation piece and turn the heads of the peasants when you show up, I totally agree, a TacOps will NOT do that. A fully decked out AXMC or similar is WAY better at that.

    The TacOps however are the kind of rifles that people in the business of using them when it counts tend to know about and respect. It doesn't look like much and is not very flexible or cool, but if you are in an urban setting, taking shots in say the up to 700 yard range where lives matter (to be honest usually it's under 300 yards for LE real world stuff), the TacOps shooting the specific factory ammo it was built around is very hard to beat. Keep in mind, they are setup usually to shoot one specific factory load which is why they come out in the 1/4th MOA category. When your shot had better hit the criminal in the eye and not the hostage they have in front of them, there is a reason TacOps is well respected.

    I have several of the AI rifles & love them...
    I do however always regret not having spent the money when this beautiful TacOps 6.5x55 with a long barrel was up for sale in the PX.....
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Oct 1, 2005
    12,539
    25,839
    Dallas, TX
    Yea I don’t get it. An AI can operate in settings even most humans can’t. There’s a reason why, and sorry to break it to you guys, but it isn’t it’s final fit and finish.

    You are correct on that, an AI will probably work long after a TacOps will stop working in harsh environments.
    However remember it's different tools for different jobs.
    TacOps were not made for playing end of the world / sandbox in raging sandstorms and fording rivers
    TacOps are made more for if you are in LE ish stuff and at close range have to be able to take a commonly stocked ammo for your department and make guaranteed shots to hit targets in high value situations, then go back and get cleaned and put away.

    Now most "Customs" even most "Custom Actions" are often based on highly refined Remington 700 style actions. TacOps essentially takes the factory actions and brings them up to the tolerances that a custom action would have.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    trob_205

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Jul 11, 2013
    971
    713
    Coldwater, MI
    You are correct on that, an AI will probably work long after a TacOps will stop working in harsh environments.
    However remember it's different tools for different jobs.
    TacOps were not made for playing end of the world / sandbox in raging sandstorms and fording rivers
    TacOps are made more for if you are in LE ish stuff and at close range have to be able to take a commonly stocked ammo for your department and make guaranteed shots to hit targets in high value situations, then go back and get cleaned and put away.

    Now most "Customs" even most "Custom Actions" are often based on highly refined Remington 700 style actions. TacOps essentially takes the factory actions and brings them up to the tolerances that a custom action would have.

    I don’t doubt the attention to detail and capability of a TacOps. But I know for sure an AI is fully capable of that roll as well.

    I’m just saying that for the money, I would have to own a safe full of AIs in most every color and caliber before I could personally justify a TacOps over an AI.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    roamin

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 11, 2017
    749
    659
    If want something that will impress your buddies, look cool at the range, be a great conversation piece and turn the heads of the peasants when you show up, I totally agree, a TacOps will NOT do that. A fully decked out AXMC or similar is WAY better at that.

    The TacOps however are the kind of rifles that people in the business of using them when it counts tend to know about and respect. It doesn't look like much and is not very flexible or cool, but if you are in an urban setting, taking shots in say the up to 700 yard range where lives matter (to be honest usually it's under 300 yards for LE real world stuff), the TacOps shooting the specific factory ammo it was built around is very hard to beat. Keep in mind, they are setup usually to shoot one specific factory load which is why they come out in the 1/4th MOA category. When your shot had better hit the criminal in the eye and not the hostage they have in front of them, there is a reason TacOps is well respected.

    I have several of the AI rifles & love them...
    I do however always regret not having spent the money when this beautiful TacOps 6.5x55 with a long barrel was up for sale in the PX.....

    While I don't argue that there may be some virtue to chambering a rifle to shoot a specific load the tac ops is still a reworked 700 the same as any good smith can rework any 700. At the end of the day we are still comparing a reworked 70O from 1996 when tac ops got it's start to an Accuracy Internatonal AX and the 700 it is a top loader at that again 1996 lol. It is my understanding that many of MHSA's Accuracy International sales are to LEO and swat teams for all the same reasons mentioned like "when lives are on the line".
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Banned !
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Hi,

    Completely OT but I will say that I do NOT want any LEO sniper that has an ego in which he needs a rifles looks to impress people at the gun range and/or his other "cop buddies" to be attempting a shot to save me or my families life.

    That kind of ego lends itself to not knowing their true abilities but instead perceiving their abilities to be based on how many compliments they get at the range on their equipment appearance and not their actual POA/POI deviations.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    reubenski

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Jun 8, 2008
    7,460
    8,460
    To
    Hi,

    Completely OT but I will say that I do NOT want any LEO sniper that has an ego in which he needs a rifles looks to impress people at the gun range and/or his other "cop buddies" to be attempting a shot to save me or my families life.

    That kind of ego lends itself to not knowing their true abilities but instead perceiving their abilities to be based on how many compliments they get at the range on their equipment appearance and not their actual POA/POI deviations.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    OAF fashion is a thing...
     

    man32ahan

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 2, 2018
    568
    128
    32
    Fairfield, Illinois
    Hi,

    Completely OT but I will say that I do NOT want any LEO sniper that has an ego in which he needs a rifles looks to impress people at the gun range and/or his other "cop buddies" to be attempting a shot to save me or my families life.

    That kind of ego lends itself to not knowing their true abilities but instead perceiving their abilities to be based on how many compliments they get at the range on their equipment appearance and not their actual POA/POI deviations.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    I think my POA/POI deviations are okay with what I’m running now. Obviously, whatever I buy I will know the system inside and out. With that being said, I don’t have a quality .308 and need to purchase one. I’m a buy once cry once guy. And this weapon will be used in a LEO capacity so I want the most reliable/accurate system I can purchase not necessarily for the ego/show off to my cop buddies, but so that when I do take the shot I have the greatest chance of saving the victim/hostage/etc.
    5BB4B02E-1897-43DC-8155-8442BDB32324.jpeg
     

    Steel head

    Feral kitten
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Aug 3, 2014
    18,149
    58,437
    Washington
    +1 for a TRG-22. I've seen em on here and GB for just north of $2k. Snag one of those and some nice glass and you'll have $$$ leftover for ammo.

    A TRG has always been on my dream list.

    My dream list
    AIAW
    Tac ops
    TRG
    Badger 2013 or black bear in a KMW sentinel stock.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    M5NSX

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 13, 2017
    228
    372
    Hi,

    Completely OT but I will say that I do NOT want any LEO sniper that has an ego in which he needs a rifles looks to impress people at the gun range and/or his other "cop buddies" to be attempting a shot to save me or my families life.

    That kind of ego lends itself to not knowing their true abilities but instead perceiving their abilities to be based on how many compliments they get at the range on their equipment appearance and not their actual POA/POI deviations.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    The typical LEO sniper engagement is something like 64 yards. An 8yo can make that shot!?
     

    man32ahan

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 2, 2018
    568
    128
    32
    Fairfield, Illinois
    OP, curious what your thoughts are on all these suggestions?
    Well honestly my buddy who is also Leo has an axmc and while I could hang with him at the class with my PVA JHR he was always a step ahead.

    So, honestly I came into this post with a prebiased notion already leaning toward AI.
     

    dirthead1

    I Like BBQ
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 11, 2017
    1,325
    780
    Phoenix, AZ
    I voted AIAX earlier in this thread but I wanted to add something more. I've had a Bighorn TL3 custom. It was fantastic. I've had several custom rifles built on trued R700 actions (none were a Tacops). I sold the TL3 to get an AIAX. One thing the AI has going for it that is similar to a Tacops with a floorplate is that you can top load into the magazine (AW or AX double-stack). That "might" be a nice feature for someone using the rifle in an official capacity. My TL3 had the AW cuts, but didn't feed reliably from an AW magazine. I'm sure the magazines could have been tuned to work more reliably with the TL3, but that's just it, you have to tune them to work. The AI just works. Tacops is a great rifle with a purpose, but for approximately the same money, the AI system is a no-brainer.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Oct 1, 2005
    12,539
    25,839
    Dallas, TX
    An AI is a well respected choice and it's very hard to go wrong with one.
    Get an AI AX or get the AT-LE package.
    Good scope mount, good scope, determine what ammo it likes best and get it setup for it.
    In .308 it may outlast you and still be dead nuts accurate.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    Luvman

    Full Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 17, 2003
    1,131
    445
    Northern KY
    An AI is a well respected choice and it's very hard to go wrong with one.
    Get an AI AX or get the AT-LE package.
    Good scope mount, good scope, determine what ammo it likes best and get it setup for it.
    In .308 it may outlast you and still be dead nuts accurate.

    Agreed. I’m not a LEO and didn’t stay at a holiday inn last night. I went with an AT due to their reputation of being accurate and reliable. When the AX stocks became readily available late last year I converted mine to an “AT LE”. I have not been disappointed.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    NukeMMC

    Chlanna Nan Con Thigibh A’ So ‘S Gheibh Sibh Feòil
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Mar 3, 2009
    1,654
    990
    Harrisburg, PA
    Agreed. I’m not a LEO and didn’t stay at a holiday inn last night. I went with an AT due to their reputation of being accurate and reliable. When the AX stocks became readily available late last year I converted mine to an “AT LE”. I have not been disappointed.
    If I didn't already get the AX, I probably would get an AT non-folder and add the AX buttstock. The cost savings is great and the buttstock fits me perfectly.
     

    Hobo Hilton

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 4, 2011
    6,939
    6,176
    71
    Pacific Northwest
    Dude just had one at the class I attended and it wouldn’t group worth krap.

    Not made by this company but a stock a m1a.

    I wouldn’t trust in a Leo sniper capacity.
    Interesting conversation here.... Take a time out and look at real life. By the time most of you would have stepped out of your vehicle, it would have been over...

     
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    Aries64

    Deep Behind Enemy Lines in IsWokestan!
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 12, 2007
    2,596
    346
    Los Angeles, California
    It blows my mind that a reworked Rem 700 action bedded into a McMillan stock, and barreled with a Krieger barrel is famed to be any more durable than a Rem 700 or custom action barreled with any other well regarded barrel, bedded into another Manners or McMillan stock put together by any of the other top 10 gunsmiths in the nation.
    Tac Ops rifles aren't "famed to be any more durable than a Rem 700 or custom action barreled with any other well regarded barrel, bedded into another Manners or McMillan stock put together by any of the other top 10 gunsmiths in the nation". I've never heard or read where someone claimed Tac Ops are more durable than an AI. The durability champion is obviously AI. However, Tac Ops are battle-proven. Tac Ops are famed to be consistently-built, built with extremely exacting tolerances, insane attention-to-detail, and consistent, repeatable, extreme accuracy. Proven accuracy with FGMM (Federal Gold Medal Match) ammunition.

    Now an AX I understand but...

    TacOps???

    A reworked and rebarreled 700 over a custom????

    Seriously??

    I had to check three times to make sure this wasn't an old thread from 2003 or a time before custom actions, the AI AT, or the AI AX existed back when your only options were to rework a 700. In 2019 we have better options with an unlimited bugdet I wouldn't look twice at a TacOps.

    IMO there isn't even anything brand-able about a TacOps rifle they just assemble other people parts and smith a 700 action in the same way any other good smith can do it so when people say it's "a TacOps" I'm thinking no it's a custom 700.
    In regard to the notion that "there isn't even anything brand-able about a TacOps rifle they just assemble other people parts and smith a 700 action in the same way any other good smith can do it", I submit that is a false statement and that not all gunsmiths build rifles the same way. I won't list every method and procedure nor the stage at which Tac Ops performs them in while building a rifle, but a few things are:

    (a) All actions are heat-treated prior to machining, ensuring that tolerances and parallelism (and thus P.O.I.) are consistent whether cold or hot bore. Consistent cold bore P.O.I. is critical when a bad guy is using a hostage as a shield

    (b) Machined-in mud gutters to keep debris from fouling the lugs

    (c) Hand-machined raceways

    (d) Special barrel-to-receiver fit that allows Tac Ops barrels to be torqued up to 550 ft. lbs. when the average builder only torques to 75-100 ft. lbs.. Case-in-point: Another builder in Australia was trying to change calibers on a Tango 51, and the gunsmith broke his wrench! The high torque ensures that the molecular structure doesn’t change, thus the cold bore shot doesn’t fluctuate

    (e) No rough reamers are used – only a finish reamer is used at a very slow RPM

    (f) Some gunsmiths allow some bedding movement – Tac Ops bedding tolerance is zero to .001” (one thousandth). If Tac Ops bedding exceeds .001”, the bedding is machined-out and the rifle is re-bedded.

    Because errors are cumulative, Tac Ops focuses on elimination of any errors in the building process.
     

    Aries64

    Deep Behind Enemy Lines in IsWokestan!
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 12, 2007
    2,596
    346
    Los Angeles, California
    The world is a lot bigger than a couple of departments in California.
    Yes, it certainly is, so I call BS on your insinuation that Tac Ops only serves two California agencies. Tac Ops has sold to well over 800 agencies worldwide, all extremely pleased with the performance and reliability of their Tac Ops platforms. If you doubt this, have your Commander or Section Chief submit a request for referrals of Duty Contacts of Team Leaders on Department Letterhead, and Tac Ops will provide contact information of Team Leaders using Tac Ops platforms worldwide.

    Industrial shooters give two shits about fit and finish. And sub- quarter moa groups at 100.
    This is also BS. Be honest: Everyone loves accuracy. If not, why do people shell-out thousands of dollars on custom rifles, barrels, and actions? There are plenty of multi-thousand dollar actions on the market. Do you think that manufacturers would sell them if they weren’t in demand? Please.

    The greater the inherent accuracy of a rifle at shorter range (say 100 yards), the greater the accuracy of that rifle at longer range. Obviously, the elements affect the bullet in flight, but all else being equal a more accurate rifle still has an advantage of over a less accurate rifle. Perhaps you missed it, but below is an except posted by The Master several years ago when someone made a comment similar to yours:

    That accurate rifles only work at short distances.
    Utterly false.
    A bullet that is started straight, and flies with its rotational axis
    concentric with its trajectory, will always shoot straighter
    and more consistently, than a rifle whose bullet is launched
    with the rotational axis precessing slightly as it flies.
    Rather than flying a straight line, the bullet flies in a small
    helix around the line of flight. As the bullet slows, the rpm drops,
    and the helix size increases. The bullet can strike anywhere on the
    target inside that circle described by the helix. A 100 to 200 yard
    test target is a good indicator of intrinsic helix diameter. This is why
    a rifle that shoots 1/4 minute or better, will always be a better
    performer that one which delivers larger groups.

    This was mixed with the notion that wind invalidates all accuracy.
    Wind affects ALL bullets to some extent. The issue here is the
    assertion that wind affects all bullets equally. Wind in a Directional
    Input Vector. As such, wind will change the bullets line of flight
    depending on the force and direction of the wind. Bullets that are
    already flying in a helix will see the size of the helix increase as the
    wind pushes on them at all points in the helix. The wind increases
    the precession forces already at work. A bullet turning on-axis flying
    in a zero helix or minuscule helix will be deflected by the wind, but
    since precession forces are small to begin with, the magnitude of
    the change will be smaller. Due to the lesser off the flight path time
    the wind had to work on the bullet, the recessive vector is smaller.
    Hence, deflection, but little increase in group size.


    Tac Ops
     
    Last edited:

    Rant Durden

    Calmer than you
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 18, 2018
    273
    279
    I think if you're looking for something no one else has, Blaser r93 lrs2 precision sniper rifle with a mirage band to top it off!
     

    Attachments

    • Image-26-600x301.jpg
      Image-26-600x301.jpg
      47.6 KB · Views: 115
    • Like
    Reactions: man32ahan

    DrewC

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 19, 2014
    104
    27
    Washington
    Tac Ops will use custom actions. I’ve seen one with a Surgeon action chambered in .260.