Video of the shooting of our girl in DC

GrumpyOleFart

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Tragic what happened.
I certainly wouldn't want anyone from either side to be harmed.
But really?
The whole scenario was fucked.
Shit went sideways the moment the buildings were stormed.
It wasn't going to end with a jovial discussion, cucumber sandwiches, and a bottle of champagne with your duly elected representatives.
As usual, the mob doesn't think of consequences.
"It seemed like a good idea at the time"
 

TurboTrout

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Because EVERYONE is somebody's kid. It's the stupidest fucking talking point ever imagined. Duh. It applies universally, to literally any possible position. Psychopaths can even use this logic.

Make the most banal, yet incontrovertibly emotional statement - and then pile on talking points. The question is, how effective is your argument, when you omit the fluff? Do your points stand alone, or are you at the mercy of sensationalism?

Problem is the ones who grow up, and or are raised, to steal from others, hurt others, step on their rights, it’s easier to correct early, than let it fester into something that’s going to require much more blood.
 

Zoomie

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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You breached a federal building with VIP's guarded by an obvious Clown Shoes organization. But after watching a years worth of looting, destruction and assaults the last thing I thought would be the price for trespass and vandalism was lethal force against an unarmed woman.

There's a time to call Alamo, but when you have significant space to retreat, a physical advantage at the ingress point, a breacher with no weapons and TAC officers on the same side as the person breaching the barrier it's not time to take that shot.

The shooter was poorly trained, made a bad decision and should be removed from the force. I've watched guys and command chains get sent home for less.
 

Zoomie

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They will argue threat to life and limb. Which is bullshit. You can plainly see there is no eminent threat to anyone. This ain't a dark alley where you can't see hands or some dimly lit mud hit in AFG. It's well lit with clear lines of sight, a very good ability to assess the threat, other heavily armed resources at the breach point and ample space to retreat and reassess.

Edited to add: it's also not accidental they are trying to frame this as an "insurrection".

Further edit: and the shooters SA is worse than I thought. There is also another SO sauntering down the hall in the background like he's going for a bag of donuts. He's in plain view of the barrier and not on guns based on what I can see. So why is Mr Amped Up Shooter putting a round in a 100 pound unarmed woman when, if Mr Donut Walker moved a little faster, he probably would have pushed her backwards on her ass and into the TAC Team? I have many questions.
 
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brianf

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Tragedy ...yes

Accident/poor decision making by shooter ...yes

Poor decision by woman trying to breach ...yes

play grown up games and it’s possible to win grown up prizes

guy will go to trial and be judged

it’s really not more difficult than that
 

Dthomas3523

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    Also, here is a POV from the LE side. I’m only going to post this and not get into arguments as it’s just another POV for people to consider:

    You are protecting the entirety of Congress and the VP. Literally 2nd and 3rd in the order of succession are in this building.

    What is at the moment a mob (call it what you want) has breached and entered the building.

    You have retreated into an area with two routes of egress and the mob is at both routes. You are effectively surrounded.

    You barricade both routes of egress and set up choke points to protect yourself and the others.

    The mob sees the doors are barricaded and proceeds to work on breaking into both points of egress.


    They have breeched the building and are still attempting to get into the area you have retreated to and barricaded yourself in for protection.

    Now you see them trying to get a person (the female victim) into a broken window. A reasonable person would assume anyone who gets in will attempt to open the barricaded doors and let the 10’s or hundreds people in.

    So, you have two choices:

    Accept their intentions could very well be violent (probable cause is needed for deadly force), and use the choke point to your advantage by shooting anyone who breaches or is close to breaching the doors.

    or

    Hope and take the chance the are just protestors that just want to talk once they break in
     

    Vodoun daVinci

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    My opinion exactly. The interlopers transgressed a final checkpoint/barricade that was protecting specific entities like maybe VP or Pelosi or??? She was the first one over the Final Barricade and she got shot dead to provide proof that if one transgressed this barricade Death was the final destination.

    If one had entered the Capital thru force then one must expect to be shot when they had attained a critical objective guarded by professional bodyguards.

    She breached a final barricade and was made an example of. God Help US. RIP brave lady.

    VooDoo
     

    Max

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  • Also, here is a POV from the LE side. I’m only going to post this and not get into arguments as it’s just another POV for people to consider:

    You are protecting the entirety of Congress and the VP. Literally 2nd and 3rd in the order of succession are in this building.

    What is at the moment a mob (call it what you want) has breached and entered the building.

    You have retreated into an area with two routes of egress and the mob is at both routes. You are effectively surrounded.

    You barricade both routes of egress and set up choke points to protect yourself and the others.

    The mob sees the doors are barricaded and proceeds to work on breaking into both points of egress.


    They have breeched the building and are still attempting to get into the area you have retreated to and barricaded yourself in for protection.

    Now you see them trying to get a person (the female victim) into a broken window. A reasonable person would assume anyone who gets in will attempt to open the barricaded doors and let the 10’s or hundreds people in.

    So, you have two choices:

    Accept their intentions could very well be violent (probable cause is needed for deadly force), and use the choke point to your advantage by shooting anyone who breaches or is close to breaching the doors.

    or

    Hope and take the chance the are just protestors that just want to talk once they break in


    Also she was purportedly wearing a backpack concealed under her flag cape. Explosive devices had already been reported on scene.
     

    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    In your head
    The"explosives" were not found until later.
    Also she was purportedly wearing a backpack concealed under her flag cape. Explosive devices had already been reported on scene.
    The shooter probably was notified that the building was breached and he barricaded his position. He had a position of cover when the glass was being broken. Once she started climbing through his brain went ohh shit, ohh shit ohh shit and he stepped out and shot.
    Freeze flight or fight. I'll wager that he was clueless as to what was happening 50 feet beyond his position. He was acting on his knowledge of the riots over the last year and he did what he perceived was the only thing that could be done. <------benefit
    If proven that he acted otherwise.....all bets are off.
     

    AngryKoala

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    It sucks that this happened, but try to look at this objectively.
    They were trying to forcefully breach a barricaded door.
    The window has been broken, they are breaking down the door.
    What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    I fully support the march, I fully support non-violent protest.
    That isn't what this was.
    I understand how upset folks are, I fully believe that there was fraud on an unbelievable level. Who are we winning over with this?

    Agree 100%. Unfortunately the adrenaline from the situation probably stopped her from thinking clearly of the situation in front of her. Unfortunate situation all around.
     

    Dthomas3523

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    Also, there’s at least one GOP rep who said he had conversation with the officer while they were trying to breach the barricaded door.

    Basically, the plan was (not lightly) decided to shoot anyone who gets in or almost in. As once the doors are open.....good luck.

    So, according to that account of the situation, it wasn’t an “oh shit” it was more of a “this sucks that I have to do this.” More than likely, anyone that got through or almost through was getting shot. It happened to be this woman.

    Over the course of my career I’ve been in situations that were escalating and either had similar conversations with someone or in my own head. “If X happens, I’m going to shoot Y.”

    It’s not a fun decision and you’re not always “right” as in if you had every single fact, maybe you don’t shoot. But with the facts you have at the time, it was the right decision.
     

    LtDan47

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    he needs to be named, shamed, and prosecuted. and i hope he lives every day of the rest of his life reliving what he did.

    sadly, the motherfucker will probably not be prosecuted, will probably be quite proud of himself, and just might get a promotion out of this.

    and if that doesnt piss you off.....

    this cuntry is so fucked

    This shooter will be on the list right after Lon Horiuchi in my book.
     
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    Dthomas3523

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    as a professional firearms instructor trained in the use of force......please....please stop talking.

    the ROE dont go out the window because he had to "secure an area" or because he "had his gun out and made it clear".

    there needs to be a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm....and there wasnt.....there clearly wasnt.

    you are responsible for what comes out of your gun.....you....not the govt...not your boss....you.


    and i would feel the same no matter her background or political affiliation.

    As a professional LE and instructor, I will give you the exact same advice.

    You absolutely cannot make an objective adjudication based on one camera angle.

    “Totality of the circumstances”

    You have no idea what was relayed on the radio, you have no idea how far they already retreated. You have no idea how things sounded, looked, etc etc from that officer’s POV.

    It may have absolutely been a bad shoot. But, you touting off that you’re an “instructor” and therefore that somehow gives you clairvoyance to know everything about the situation, is laughable at best and downright reckless/arrogant at worst.
     

    Max

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  • The"explosives" were not found until later.

    Interesting.....This is the timeline citation I was going by.

    WASHINGTON — DC Police said two pipe bombs and a cooler of Molotov cocktails were found near the US Capitol Building while Trump supporters began to riot in the area, eventually breaking into the building.

     
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    siscoe308

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    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. She deserved what she got. There has to be red lines, doesn’t matter what cause. This is a disgusting lose of control on the whole MAGA movement.

    Protest is protected right. Rioting is crossing the line. “Looting starts, the shooting starts.” Sound familiar?

    Watch the video of the cop being smashed in the door, having his mask ripped off while screaming in pain.....it will change your mind on these fucking animals. I have zero sympathy for any person injured while participating in that madness.

    Mob mentality sickens me.
     
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    mcameron

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    As a professional LE and instructor, I will give you the exact same advice.

    You absolutely cannot make an objective adjudication based on one camera angle.

    “Totality of the circumstances”

    You have no idea what was relayed on the radio, you have no idea how far they already retreated. You have no idea how things sounded, looked, etc etc from that officer’s POV.

    It may have absolutely been a bad shoot. But, you touting off that you’re an “instructor” and therefore that somehow gives you clairvoyance to know everything about the situation, is laughable at best and downright reckless/arrogant at worst.

    you know as well as i do that shootings are both incredibly macroscopic, and incredibly microscopic....and border on the microscopic in terms of legalities.

    radio chatter.... largely irrelevant.

    how far they had retreated.....largely irrelevant

    what matters most is that specific microcosm around the shooting seconds before the shot was sent.....and we have that on video.....clear as fucking day.

    what we have is an unarmed woman climbing over a barrier, surrounded by cops........she was actively using both hands to climb that barrier......how in gods green earth is she posing a "deadly threat" to anyone?....regardless of what angle you view it from.

    if you are going to defend this.....actually articulate how that woman was a "deadly threat".

    im going to say it.....if you think this was a "good" shoot.....you should not be in LE....period.

    you dont have to be a clairvoyant....you just need to have fucking eyes and understand the law.
     

    siscoe308

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    Take off the labels, ignore the flags.

    Violent crowd breaks into a top secret government facility. Protected personnel are under immediate threat. While retreating, a final line barricade is erected, and breached.....a single shot is fired.

    Good thing my 8152 trained self wasn’t there. I’d have stacked them deep.
     
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    mcameron

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    Take off the labels, ignore the flags.

    Violent crowd breaks into a top secret government facility. Protected personal are under immediate threat. While retreating, a final line barricade is erected, and breached.....a single shot is fired.

    Good thing my 8152 traine self wasn’t there. I’d have stacked them deep.
    ...this isnt the military there butch...ROEs dont change because of the "status" of the personnel or how far they get into a building.

    express in words how a 100lb unarmed woman climbing a wall is a "imminent deadly threat" and we can have a discussion
     
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    siscoe308

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    ...this isnt the military there butch...ROEs dont change because of the "status" of the personnel or how far they get into a building.

    express in words how a 100lb unarmed woman climbing a wall is a "imminent deadly threat" and we can have a discussion

    She showed herself to be a threat by smashing through the barrier....after felony trespassing into a controlled facility.

    Wearing a backpack & draped in a flag....it’s a split second decision. If you are charged with the security of a person & you are losing that you have to respond.

    Her life isn’t worth the risk she posed in that moment.
     

    mcameron

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    She showed herself to be a threat by smashing through the barrier....after felony trespassing into a controlled facility.

    Wearing a backpack & draped in a flag....it’s a split second decision. If you are charged with the security of a person & you are losing that you have to respond.

    Her life isn’t worth the risk she posed in that moment.
    jesus christ the backpack argument again?.......you are a fucking moron.....

    where is the IMMINENT THREAT OF DEATH OR BODILY HARM......simple question.....

    not coulda shoulda woulda.....in the moment she was shot....using both hands to climb a wall.....how was she threatening death or bodily harm?
     
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    siscoe308

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    jesus christ the backpack argument again?.......you are a fucking moron.....

    where is the IMMINENT THREAT OF DEATH OR BODILY HARM......simply question.....

    not coulda shoulda woulda.....in the moment she was shot....using both hands to climb a wall.....how was she threatening death or bodily harm?

    Because if the officer PRECEIVED an imminent threat he was justified.

    Cops shoot unarmed people all the time & walk because of circumstances surrounding/ leading up to the shot.

    Again she was part of a violent riot breaching a government facility & infliction physical harm on ppl. Actively breaching a final line of defense......how much more do you want?
     

    mcameron

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    Because if the officer PRECEIVED an imminent threat he was justified.

    Wrong.wrong.wrong

    You are not justified if you 'think' someone is a threat...Hell, if that were the case, EVERY shooting would be"justified"

    "Sorry your honor, he looked scary to me, I'll be declared not guilty now, thank you"
     

    siscoe308

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    Wrong.wrong.wrong

    You are not justified if you 'think' someone is a threat...Hell, if that were the case, EVERY shooting would be"justified"

    "Sorry your honor, he looked scary to me, I'll be declared not guilty now, thank you"

    How about “Sorry your honor, my detail had retreated as far as possible & barricaded the door in protection of my charge. Then the violent mob smashed through, the individual was the first through the breach. I couldn’t be certain of the safety of me or my team. In that moment, I feared for my life.”
     
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    aviatrix

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    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. She deserved what she got. There has to be red lines, doesn’t matter what cause. This is a disgusting lose of control on the whole MAGA movement.

    Protest is protected right. Rioting is crossing the line. “Looting starts, the shooting starts.” Sound familiar?

    Watch the video of the cop being smashed in the door, having his mask ripped off while screaming in pain.....it will change your mind on these fucking animals. I have zero sympathy for any person injured while participating in that madness.

    Mob mentality sickens me.

    Funny how all thru 2020 when the the looting starts the shooting didn't start!
     

    aviatrix

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    She showed herself to be a threat by smashing through the barrier....after felony trespassing into a controlled facility.

    Wearing a backpack & draped in a flag....it’s a split second decision. If you are charged with the security of a person & you are losing that you have to respond.

    Her life isn’t worth the risk she posed in that moment.

    In other words her life was worth nothing.
     

    Blutroop

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    Nope, but I've never had to take my shoes off and tippy toe. I was just surprised at the quick trigger. Maybe there was a PM that lead to banning?
    Nope. His house his rules. There’s been warnings and posts. He posted stuff so it’s on you to read it. I’m glad I lasted long enough to hold my tongue when he let me back.