Vortex CS .. Kicks ass

[FuhQ]

Not to piss on your parade, but when you actually use the zero stop on the SE, you lose LOTS of elevation.

I'm hoping that their RevStop is better than their old system. I am a HUGE fan of the Arken SH4 zero-stop. It is honestly the best ZS that I've ever used. It stops the turret on a solid-wall. It always returns to my exact zero. And it's super easy to adjust, and it never feels lackluster.

I've been running the Viper HS-T scopes since they first hit the scene, and I love the scopes, but their ZS with the brass shims...Absolutely SUCKS! I hate it. Is it functional? Definitely. But it's also spongy and doesn't feel solid. And, if you crank on it too hard past the ZS setting, you can feel the shims compress, and it feels like your lifting the erector out of place. It feels like you're going to break it. So you have to be VERY gentle with the HS-T zero stop.

That Arken ZS, man you spin that fucker back to zero and it just STOPS. Like you just ran a brick wall into another brick wall. It was very well engineered. I hope more scope companies start to use a variation of that. And resetting it only requires 2 screws and a 2mm allen bit and takes less than a minute to re-zero the turret, and then reset the ZS.

I know I sound like a shill or a fanboy, but if you haven't messed with one, you really need to. It will change your opinion on how most scope companies are designing their ZS's.

 

[FuhQ]

You still have 18 mils with the SE and zero stop. I just run mine on a 40 moa base so no need for the stop.

I run a 20 MOA base on everything, so that will help.

 

[Rob01]

I run a 20 MOA base on everything, so that will help.

It will give you 18 mils. That's what the zero stop limits to. And you can set it up to stop on the 0 exactly or have some clicks below, which is how I like to have it.

 

[FuhQ]

It will give you 18 mils. That's what the zero stop limits to. And you can set it up to stop on the 0 exactly or have some clicks below, which is how I like to have it.

Gotcha. I'll give it a try. I might end up not using the ZS...But we'll see.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

So much hate for Vortex and while they are not exactly my favorite, I do seem to have a Razor Gen 2 that has been on many rifles and never let me down. NF one time told me (while my optic was in for warranty work...LOL) the life expectancy for any optic is 10K rounds, well if that is true my Razor Gen 2 is on about it's 3rd lifetime

 

[FuhQ]

So much hate for Vortex and while they are not exactly my favorite, I do seem to have a Razor Gen 2 that has been on many rifles and never let me down. NF one time told me (while my optic was in for warranty work...LOL) the life expectancy for any optic is 10K rounds, well if that is true my Razor Gen 2 is on about it's 3rd lifetime

If a $2,500 scope is only expected to last 10,000 rounds, that's sad. I guess they could be taking about huge magnum cartridges, and if so, that's not bad, but if they're talking about 6.5CM or .308 Win, then that's not cool.

 

[The King]

Should be a cool comparison. Super interested to see how that comes out.

Its a pretty good time to be in this industry - I remember the Leupold Ultra lol. And the original Super Sniper 10x.

Todays scopes are rock stars comparison wise.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I honestly can't wait to compare it to my Arken SH4 6-24x50 and my Viper HST 6-24x50 scopes all side-by-side (at the same magnifications). I'll try to take pics through them all in the same day, so I can do a fair unbiased honest comparison of the glass. I can't guarantee how well my iPhone will do, but hopefully it will pan-out.

The SE's feature set is also pretty similar to the Arken SH4 if you compare specs. The Arken is like 32.8 MILS, the SE is 31 MILS of elevation. Both have 34mm tubes. Both are FFP. Both have HD glass. And the EBR-7C is also a Horus-styled reticle like the Arken VPR. I think it will be a good side-by-side, honestly.

 

[Rob01]

Should be a cool comparison. Super interested to see how that comes out.

Its a pretty good time to be in this industry - I remember the Leupold Ultra lol. And the original Super Sniper 10x.

Todays scopes are rock stars comparison wise.

Yup people coming in today have no idea how lucky they are. The scopes available even the "cheap Chinese" today beat out some of what was considered top tier years ago. And most don't know the pain of running MOA knobs with a mil reticle. LOL

 

[The King]

If a $2,500 scope is only expected to last 10,000 rounds, that's sad. I guess they could be taking about huge magnum cartridges, and if so, that's not bad, but if they're talking about 6.5CM or .308 Win, then that's not cool.

Scopes move a little when you fire a rifle. The scope bell actually oscillates and the erector tube usually rubs some against the erector posts. The erector spring gets stressed. Battery contacts move. Electronic wires flex. Etc.

NF does a ton of military contracts. As such they likely see a lot of hard-use scopes come back to the barn and that is probably where that number comes from. Its also probably contract language as well, so it will be MTBF and not a max possible lifetime. Just the max they are willing to guarantee under threat of contract penalties.

I will say right now that if the chips were down and I had to pick a brand new rifle scope from any company, and if it didn't work right I was gonna die at the end of the shooting session...it would be Nightforce. Even though I just dropped a broken one in the mail.

ZCO might eventually take on that crown, but they haven't the pedigree NF does.

 

[FuhQ]

Should be a cool comparison. Super interested to see how that comes out.

Its a pretty good time to be in this industry - I remember the Leupold Ultra lol. And the original Super Sniper 10x.

Todays scopes are rock stars comparison wise.

I've been around since the Tasco World Class was considered an "ok" starter optic. LMFAO Been shooting for over 30 years. I remember all the progressions at least for the last 25 or so. I remember growing up without a lot of money, and my dad buying a Simmons Aetec and thinking that was an awesome scope (compared to the Tasco World Class that was originally on my deer rifle). Man, the 80's and early 90's were crazy times.

I still own several of the SWFA SS scopes, and use them regularly. They're very decent optics for the money. Built like a tank for sure.

And you're 100% right, today's budget scopes vs. yesteryear's budget scopes might as well be like comparing a Tasco to an NXS.

 

[FuhQ]

Yup people coming in today have no idea how lucky they are. The scopes available even the "cheap Chinese" today beat out some of what was considered top tier years ago. And most don't know the pain of running MOA knobs with a mil reticle. LOL

This is why I when I had my Arken thread (the one I had to delete because of the asshats getting bent out of shape and accusing me of shilling), I mentioned that as far as overall FEEL and weight, and dimensions of the scope, and the turret feel of the Arken SH4 reminded me of the old original NF NXS scopes from 20 years ago. And everyone came unglued and lost their shit telling me I was a shill, and I didn't know what I was talking about, and blah blah blah. I never once said it was as good as. I simply stated it reminded me of them.

The fact is, most of those guys never even handled a NF 20 years ago, back when I was selling guns and scopes at the gun store. I handled those optics on a daily basis back then. I was handling, sighting in, selling, installing, and range zero'ing for customers, everything from S&B, Kahles, Swaro, NF, Hensold, Kowa, Nikon (top-tier Nikons), Bausch & Lomb (pre-Bushnell), Leupold, all the way down to the cheap shit like Tasco and BSA. I know what good optics are. But everyone got their panties in a bunch when I said it REMINDED ME of the original NXS scopes from 20 years ago when they were fledgling and were not as refined as they are today.

The fact is, technology changes, and so does the cost of it. Which includes optics. A $500 scope today definitely has technology that $2,500 scopes from 20-30 years ago had. And in some particular parts of that technology (not necessarily the glass), probably BETTER quality than what those scopes had (like the turrets and erector sets). That is a fact.

 

[FuhQ]

Scopes move a little when you fire a rifle. The scope bell actually oscillates and the erector tube usually rubs some against the erector posts. The erector spring gets stressed. Battery contacts move. Electronic wires flex. Etc.

NF does a ton of military contracts. As such they likely see a lot of hard-use scopes come back to the barn and that is probably where that number comes from. Its also probably contract language as well, so it will be MTBF and not a max possible lifetime. Just the max they are willing to guarantee under threat of contract penalties.

I will say right now that if the chips were down and I had to pick a brand new rifle scope from any company, and if it didn't work right I was gonna die at the end of the shooting session...it would be Nightforce. Even though I just dropped a broken one in the mail.

ZCO might eventually take on that crown, but they haven't the pedigree NF does.

That was my whole argument with the people who are trying to cancel out any honest discussion on here about Arken. They're brand new, and have lots of growing pains to correct. But in time, they might prove to be some really good quality optics for the money. But if everyone just thumbs their nose at them because they're new, and because they pay some folks to shill for them, they're never getting a fair shot at what they could be? They might fail... They might become the next Vortex... Nobody knows. But I'm willing to try something new to see what I personally think about it. You know, put my money where my mouth is.

I'm not a shill. I paid full retail, and bought it with my own money. I figured I'd try something new and see how it stacks up. I didn't think there was anything wrong with that until I got crucified on here.

 

[Gohring65]

Scopes move a little when you fire a rifle. The scope bell actually oscillates and the erector tube usually rubs some against the erector posts. The erector spring gets stressed. Battery contacts move. Electronic wires flex. Etc.

NF does a ton of military contracts. As such they likely see a lot of hard-use scopes come back to the barn and that is probably where that number comes from. Its also probably contract language as well, so it will be MTBF and not a max possible lifetime. Just the max they are willing to guarantee under threat of contract penalties.

I will say right now that if the chips were down and I had to pick a brand new rifle scope from any company, and if it didn't work right I was gonna die at the end of the shooting session...it would be Nightforce. Even though I just dropped a broken one in the mail.

ZCO might eventually take on that crown, but they haven't the pedigree NF does.

I feel the same way with 1000$ optic that I would have to choose for a duty weapon, it would be a DMR2, the track record is pretty good for durability and tracking. After all these years the DMR family of scopes been around, from the first Gen til now, they still fly off the shelves.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Burris XTR 3-12: reticle came loose in less than one magazine on an M1A, it got repaired. On the same scope the erector housing pivot pin broke causing the erector to spin inside the main tube. Scope was replaced and eventually sold several years later.

Vortex Viper gen1 4-16SFP: Battery drain issue, sent in and repaired. Later on I dunked it in water to see if it really was waterproof. It failed and filled up with water. Vortex replaced it. I even told them I purposely dunked it. Turrets have never failed and it always tracked adequately.

Steiner Military 4-16x50 (discontinued) wouldn't hold zero. Replaced by Steiner and received a T5Xi 5-25x56 for a small upgrade fee. I still have that scope. It tracks great and has been a good scope other than significant CA and fringing on light colored targets.

Vortex Razor Gen2 3-18x50: reticle canted 3° to the right, parallax knob had a slight hitch in it, the turrets weren't tracking 100% and the parallax wasn't set correctly. They made sure it was fixed, the optic went through repair a few times before it passed a full list of tests. The sunshade stuck one time and when I finally got it off it loosened the front objective lens ring. My fault. They fixed it and had it back to me in 7 days. Paid shipping both ways too.

I have a Bushnell Nitro that needs to be sent back. It doesn't hold zero well. It's a cheap scope so I'm not too disappointed.

All scopes fail eventually. A friend of mine has sent in his ZCO and an older USO. another has sent in his Kahles a few times, and a Steiner P4Xi I bought from him used had been sent in once for a stuck parallax knob.

Get it repaired and move on.

I would absolutely take a rifle with my Razor Gen2 3-18 on a hunt. Same with either of my Steiners. In fact, I'm hunting this weekend with a Viper gen1 on my Rem700 30-06. Zero worries.

 

[Hickswr]

All Vortex scopes below the Razor line will eventually let you down, it’s just a matter of when.

 

[beetroot]

All Vortex scopes below the Razor line will eventually let you down, it’s just a matter of when.

I guess that's just part of the design of Vortex scopes, planned obsolescence.

They intentionally design them to fail so they can replace them for free, just to keep the Military industrial machine purring along.

Personally I try not to buy any scope that isn't classified as a Tank, only particular Milspec scopes get the specific tank rating so you know you are getting to maximum Milspec possible.

 

[BKKSW]

I'm of the mind at least 2 out of 3 returned scopes have no issues. With that said the last scope I remember sending back was my Leupold Mark 6. It took a lot to convince me something was wrong before sending it in, and when I did they found an erector spring broken. Yep, that will do it. The Mark 6 is one of the toughest and abused scopes.. I guess springs break sometimes. Before that, there was something hairy growing in the tube of 2 of the 3 early 60's Leupold's 3-9x42mm's on my dad's rifles. I'm guessing there always was but he didn't care, they got the job done. Leupold took care of those making sure to retain all the vintage parts. Took them a while. The original lifetime warranty.. (where it takes a lifetime to get them serviced)

Analog torque wrenches are fine. A few years ago someone gave me a set of FIx-It sticks with a set if torque limiters as a gift.. I love them. Probably wouldn't pay to buy some for myself, but they sure are nice.

 

[Dakotaraven13]

I had to send in my DB Tatical 4x16-44 in for repair.. I just received a new scope today via UPS. Vortex stated I over torqued the rings, I doubt it but not going to argue, I tend to under torque. I use a Wheeler Fat wrench for all my torquing needs.. Should I look for something more accurate? if so what is recommended.

I’ve sent back 2 scopes and they mailed me new scopes for the same reason. I over torque the rings! No I didn’t! It’s cheaper to replace the scope. I didn’t argue with him either! Lol! I wouldn’t worry about it. Keep moving and shoot straight! God’s speed.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I have a Wheeler Fat Wrench, compared the torque to my workshop tools.
Within a bee's dick of being bang on.

 

[Murden]

We all need to realize that scopes are just a minor issue compared to what we we face with Chinese aspirations for the world.

Twenty years ago their military and economic agendas of dominance were largely classified. Now, there is clear picture of what they intend: from South China Sea fighter bases, to Tiawan take-over, incursions in South America and Southeast Asia, the list is extensive most recently highlighted by their positioning to step into the voids we left in Afghanistan. To these alarms we can add the chemical and biological initiatives (read COVID), and their impressive build-up of air and sea combat components.

Moreover, the dollars from every product we buy with any Chinese fingerprints on it goes into their offensive military coffers! So, the next time you shop for a scope, for instance, remember that all of Leupold and part of Vortex production are the only non-Chinese efforts.

 

[deersniper]

remember that all of Leupold and part of Vortex production are the only non-Chinese efforts.

Oh really Nightforce ZCO Bender etc have parts from Chyna? Doubt it

 

[Gohring65]

China is the pimp and America is the hoe that better have their money.
Everyone’s whole fucking house is made in China!

 

[The King]

We all need to realize that scopes are just a minor issue compared to what we we face with Chinese aspirations for the world.

Twenty years ago their military and economic agendas of dominance were largely classified. Now, there is clear picture of what they intend: from South China Sea fighter bases, to Tiawan take-over, incursions in South America and Southeast Asia, the list is extensive most recently highlighted by their positioning to step into the voids we left in Afghanistan. To these alarms we can add the chemical and biological initiatives (read COVID), and their impressive build-up of air and sea combat components.

Moreover, the dollars from every product we buy with any Chinese fingerprints on it goes into their offensive military coffers! So, the next time you shop for a scope, for instance, remember that all of Leupold and part of Vortex production are the only non-Chinese efforts.

Since the complete liberal takeover of our country and the extreme unlikeliness that our nation will ever recover and right itself, I stopped bitching about people buying Chinese and learned to love the bomb.

 

[adubeau]

I have a Wheeler Fat Wrench, compared the torque to my workshop tools.
Within a bee's dick of being bang on.

You seen a bee's dick?

 

[FuhQ]

I have a Wheeler Fat Wrench, compared the torque to my workshop tools.
Within a bee's dick of being bang on.

I use one, too. That's good to know. Thanks for the info.

 

[FuhQ]

We all need to realize that scopes are just a minor issue compared to what we we face with Chinese aspirations for the world.

Twenty years ago their military and economic agendas of dominance were largely classified. Now, there is clear picture of what they intend: from South China Sea fighter bases, to Tiawan take-over, incursions in South America and Southeast Asia, the list is extensive most recently highlighted by their positioning to step into the voids we left in Afghanistan. To these alarms we can add the chemical and biological initiatives (read COVID), and their impressive build-up of air and sea combat components.

Moreover, the dollars from every product we buy with any Chinese fingerprints on it goes into their offensive military coffers! So, the next time you shop for a scope, for instance, remember that all of Leupold and part of Vortex production are the only non-Chinese efforts.

I agree with what you're saying, and the world's dependence on cheap Chinese labor and products is very disturbing. But that said, those scopes were already bought and paid for and built before we purchased them... Someone else's money paid for that. Me NOT buying an Arken or cheaper Chinese OEM made scope is not saving anything. Unfortunately, the optics market is a mite on a flea's nuts, on a dog's back compared to other industries reliant on China. The automotive industry is disturbingly HUGE. So is the appliance and electric-powered industries (like household appliances, etc...), and clothing. If those 3 things were to cease Chinese production, China would be fucked. But just quitting making scopes and optics wouldn't even phase them.

I'm not justifying buying Chinese OEM made optics, I'm simply stating facts. Our reality is more disturbing than most care to admit.

Also, Leupold uses some chinese plastic parts and rubber seals...They're not 100% USA either. They'll tell you they are, but they're not unless they make every single part in-house from raw materials sourced within the US from companies that manufacture those raw materials here in the USA. Even those rubber seals (petroleum-based) were probably made from oil siphoned from the middle east and shipped here as a raw material.

Nothing is sacred anymore. The US Government ships steel from Turkey because it's cheaper to produce, than buying from US-based suppliers that manufacture it here in our own country. Let that sink in.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

You seen a bee's dick?

I have 3 bee hives, bee dicks everywhere.....

 

[FuhQ]

The new replacement Vortex scope arrived today… They allowed me to upgrade my discontinued model scope to the new Strike Eagle FFP with the EBR-7C MRAD reticle for a small fee...Which I was perfectly ok with, because it allowed me to upgrade to a new production model scope with useable features (for me).

It's new semi-permanent home... Until my new 34mm rings come in, then it's probably going on my R700 5R Milspec .308 Win.

It's only on my DMR, because the only spare 34mm rings/mount I had laying around was the extra Arken 34mm 20 MOA 1-piece from when I ordered my scope, incase I ever wanted to mount it on this rifle... Works for now.

 

[r.tenorio671]

We all need to realize that scopes are just a minor issue compared to what we we face with Chinese aspirations for the world.

Twenty years ago their military and economic agendas of dominance were largely classified. Now, there is clear picture of what they intend: from South China Sea fighter bases, to Tiawan take-over, incursions in South America and Southeast Asia, the list is extensive most recently highlighted by their positioning to step into the voids we left in Afghanistan. To these alarms we can add the chemical and biological initiatives (read COVID), and their impressive build-up of air and sea combat components.

Moreover, the dollars from every product we buy with any Chinese fingerprints on it goes into their offensive military coffers! So, the next time you shop for a scope, for instance, remember that all of Leupold and part of Vortex production are the only non-Chinese efforts.

....FWIW, if you get a chance read up on the "Opium Wars", specifically historical articles that discuss the who, what & why. Articles from different time periods will also give perspectives relative to that time period. What I found interesting is the political & cultural mindset that developed as a result, commonly referenced in the articles I've read from the various time periods.

 

[supercorndogs]

This is why I when I had my Arken thread (the one I had to delete because of the asshats getting bent out of shape and accusing me of shilling), I mentioned that as far as overall FEEL and weight, and dimensions of the scope, and the turret feel of the Arken SH4 reminded me of the old original NF NXS scopes from 20 years ago. And everyone came unglued and lost their shit telling me I was a shill, and I didn't know what I was talking about, and blah blah blah. I never once said it was as good as. I simply stated it reminded me of them.

The fact is, most of those guys never even handled a NF 20 years ago, back when I was selling guns and scopes at the gun store. I handled those optics on a daily basis back then. I was handling, sighting in, selling, installing, and range zero'ing for customers, everything from S&B, Kahles, Swaro, NF, Hensold, Kowa, Nikon (top-tier Nikons), Bausch & Lomb (pre-Bushnell), Leupold, all the way down to the cheap shit like Tasco and BSA. I know what good optics are. But everyone got their panties in a bunch when I said it REMINDED ME of the original NXS scopes from 20 years ago when they were fledgling and were not as refined as they are today.

The fact is, technology changes, and so does the cost of it. Which includes optics. A $500 scope today definitely has technology that $2,500 scopes from 20-30 years ago had. And in some particular parts of that technology (not necessarily the glass), probably BETTER quality than what those scopes had (like the turrets and erector sets). That is a fact.

 

[FuhQ]

View attachment 7723854
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View attachment 7723849

Oh the irony of your stupidity... It's funny that you're the one that can't let shit go and keep bringing it up.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Use what you have, to the very most of your and it's ability.

 

[FuhQ]

I decided to pull the Strike Eagle off the 6.5 Grendel, as I don’t shoot that rifle much, because I want to rebuild it with a different (shorter) barrel for hunting suppressed.

Anyway, I think the new Strike Eagle 5-25x56 might have found it’s permanent home now… I might go confirm zero tomorrow, if the contractor doesn’t do any work.

And yes, I know it’s not threaded, and yes, it sucks, and yes I will be getting it threaded soon. I bought it almost 12 years ago before they were offered with factory threads. This thing just flat shoots. It regularly shoots sub-1/4 MOA groups, if I do my part…

This is my 10th Anniversary Edition (Gen 1) R700 5R Milspec 24” .308 Win. Wearing an EGW HD 20 MOA base, Vortex (Seekins) Prdcision 34mm (0.92” low) rings, and the new Strike Eagle 5-25x56.