Re: Vortex Razor Review
WOW !!!!! Kudos to Sam and Scott.That is GREAT customer service.
WOW !!!!! Kudos to Sam and Scott.That is GREAT customer service.
Rifle Scopes Vortex Razor Review
- Thread starter AJBello
- Start date
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Yeah broken 2000$ scope is a bummer, yeah being all geared up for shooting and then unable due to the equipment is a bummer however if we had such a great service here (EU, Slovenia) as you guys get well dunno i'd better not go there...
I got my money stolen by a "#"%%# (ordered IOR 3-18x42) and Interpol won't do jack about (been more than 3 months since i've reported a scam to police) i can't go there and beat the money out of that guy since then poooolice will sure do something to me (and it won't take 3 months for them to react)...
So quit whining and bitching and either accept the fact that your little baby is going to get a drop of red or say bye bye and buy something else...there are worse things than little screw going bad on you...
Yeah broken 2000$ scope is a bummer, yeah being all geared up for shooting and then unable due to the equipment is a bummer however if we had such a great service here (EU, Slovenia) as you guys get well dunno i'd better not go there...
I got my money stolen by a "#"%%# (ordered IOR 3-18x42) and Interpol won't do jack about (been more than 3 months since i've reported a scam to police) i can't go there and beat the money out of that guy since then poooolice will sure do something to me (and it won't take 3 months for them to react)...
So quit whining and bitching and either accept the fact that your little baby is going to get a drop of red or say bye bye and buy something else...there are worse things than little screw going bad on you...
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Scott,
We'll be crediting you for the $111 shipping charge.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
We're going to be working hard today to figure this all out.
As soon as I have more info on the best course of action I will let people know. Bottom line is that I know whatever the details are of fixing this we are going to do our absolute best and bend over backwards for our customers to make sure that they are all taken care of.
-Sam
Scott,
We'll be crediting you for the $111 shipping charge.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
We're going to be working hard today to figure this all out.
As soon as I have more info on the best course of action I will let people know. Bottom line is that I know whatever the details are of fixing this we are going to do our absolute best and bend over backwards for our customers to make sure that they are all taken care of.
-Sam
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott,
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">We'll be crediting you for the $111 shipping charge</span></span>.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
We're going to be working hard today to figure this all out.
As soon as I have more info on the best course of action I will let people know. Bottom line is that I know whatever the details are of fixing this we are going to do our absolute best and bend over backwards for our customers to make sure that they are all taken care of.
-Sam </div></div>
Now <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">that’s</span></span> customer service. The OP just had to have his scope the next day, so he coughed up the money ($111.00) to get it there. All his decision, no one else’s.
Sam,
Can you adopt me? My folks are old and won’t mind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott,
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">We'll be crediting you for the $111 shipping charge</span></span>.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
We're going to be working hard today to figure this all out.
As soon as I have more info on the best course of action I will let people know. Bottom line is that I know whatever the details are of fixing this we are going to do our absolute best and bend over backwards for our customers to make sure that they are all taken care of.
-Sam </div></div>
Now <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">that’s</span></span> customer service. The OP just had to have his scope the next day, so he coughed up the money ($111.00) to get it there. All his decision, no one else’s.
Sam,
Can you adopt me? My folks are old and won’t mind.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott,
We'll be crediting you for the $111 shipping charge.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
We're going to be working hard today to figure this all out.
As soon as I have more info on the best course of action I will let people know. Bottom line is that I know whatever the details are of fixing this we are going to do our absolute best and bend over backwards for our customers to make sure that they are all taken care of.
-Sam </div></div>
Well, that's that. As per usual, the customer service is second to none. The scope is as nice as they come, and you have the support of some of the best people in ANY business. As I posted earlier, mistakes are going to happen. It's how those mistakes are handled, and then corrected, that make the difference.
What I don't understand are the folks piling on that don't have a scope in hand. Those complaints are pretty dramatic for someone that hasn't had any experience with the scope. Relax.
For the record, I've cranked and cranked and cranked on the knobs and Zero Stop on my replacement. It really works well.
Best,
Josh
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott,
We'll be crediting you for the $111 shipping charge.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
We're going to be working hard today to figure this all out.
As soon as I have more info on the best course of action I will let people know. Bottom line is that I know whatever the details are of fixing this we are going to do our absolute best and bend over backwards for our customers to make sure that they are all taken care of.
-Sam </div></div>
Well, that's that. As per usual, the customer service is second to none. The scope is as nice as they come, and you have the support of some of the best people in ANY business. As I posted earlier, mistakes are going to happen. It's how those mistakes are handled, and then corrected, that make the difference.
What I don't understand are the folks piling on that don't have a scope in hand. Those complaints are pretty dramatic for someone that hasn't had any experience with the scope. Relax.
For the record, I've cranked and cranked and cranked on the knobs and Zero Stop on my replacement. It really works well.
Best,
Josh
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Wow! A 3D CAD drawing explaining the problem and 100% from both manufacturer and vendor to make things right...and they're even paying you $111 for your trouble. Yes, that problem should never have occurred, especially in a high-end scope, but you'll be fine. The only major reason I chose a Premier 3-15X over the Vortex was wanting low end magnification lower than 5X. And, as most everybody knows, the Premiers have had some early production issues too. I've never had a problem with mine and I hands down like the features on both these scopes more than others. These companies are pushing innovation in the scope market and, especially in the case of Vortex, supporting and listening to their customers.
I recommend Vortex products all the time to friends looking for bins, spotters, etc.
Wow! A 3D CAD drawing explaining the problem and 100% from both manufacturer and vendor to make things right...and they're even paying you $111 for your trouble. Yes, that problem should never have occurred, especially in a high-end scope, but you'll be fine. The only major reason I chose a Premier 3-15X over the Vortex was wanting low end magnification lower than 5X. And, as most everybody knows, the Premiers have had some early production issues too. I've never had a problem with mine and I hands down like the features on both these scopes more than others. These companies are pushing innovation in the scope market and, especially in the case of Vortex, supporting and listening to their customers.
I recommend Vortex products all the time to friends looking for bins, spotters, etc.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwiscutter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you very much for the measured and extensive review. In regards to fact that 3 out of the 4 claimed failures have happened to people on this site, I would assert that perhaps vortex has not sold many of these scopes outside of the internet shooting community. My local Vortex dealer up here didn't even know that they had comeout with a tactical model. I would also assert that of the people that are buying them, how many are actually running them through the paces. 50%? 25%? (I would think the latter might be closer to the truth than the former.)
All new products have hicups, but I think it is important to establish context in describing them and in determining whether or not a company was premature in bringing them to market. For instance, Premier took a lot of heat for the clicks issue, which although an inconvienience, did not put the scope out of opperation. Contrast that with your scope, which was made inoperable after 50 rounds because of a screw that worked loose. Now I will preface this with the disclaimer that I know next to nothing about optical engineering, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">but should the proper fucnction of an optic be contingent upon the bonding ability of red locktite? Now don't get me wrong, red lock tite is great stuff, but this type of occurance doesn't exactly instill confidence</span></span>. This scope is on the short list for a funding contingent 2010 purchase, so please keep the rest of us informed about its performance after repair.
</div></div>
Are you kidding? Loc-tite(or similar) keeps an amazingly high number of products from coming apart these days. It is common practice on most assembly lines that have anykind of screws or threading involved. I would bet my first born(although I dont and cant have one)that the razor is not the only highend optic with loctite in it. Have you ever tried to remove something that had red loctite on it? Like Sam said it is not moving without extreme heat.
(I guess lost that one bet years ago when I bet my first born,could of swore I was right.)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwiscutter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you very much for the measured and extensive review. In regards to fact that 3 out of the 4 claimed failures have happened to people on this site, I would assert that perhaps vortex has not sold many of these scopes outside of the internet shooting community. My local Vortex dealer up here didn't even know that they had comeout with a tactical model. I would also assert that of the people that are buying them, how many are actually running them through the paces. 50%? 25%? (I would think the latter might be closer to the truth than the former.)
All new products have hicups, but I think it is important to establish context in describing them and in determining whether or not a company was premature in bringing them to market. For instance, Premier took a lot of heat for the clicks issue, which although an inconvienience, did not put the scope out of opperation. Contrast that with your scope, which was made inoperable after 50 rounds because of a screw that worked loose. Now I will preface this with the disclaimer that I know next to nothing about optical engineering, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">but should the proper fucnction of an optic be contingent upon the bonding ability of red locktite? Now don't get me wrong, red lock tite is great stuff, but this type of occurance doesn't exactly instill confidence</span></span>. This scope is on the short list for a funding contingent 2010 purchase, so please keep the rest of us informed about its performance after repair.
</div></div>
Are you kidding? Loc-tite(or similar) keeps an amazingly high number of products from coming apart these days. It is common practice on most assembly lines that have anykind of screws or threading involved. I would bet my first born(although I dont and cant have one)that the razor is not the only highend optic with loctite in it. Have you ever tried to remove something that had red loctite on it? Like Sam said it is not moving without extreme heat.
(I guess lost that one bet years ago when I bet my first born,could of swore I was right.)
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
(sarcasm on)Yeah, hard to like a company and get a "warm fuzzy" feeling from a company when one of the top dogs from said company comes on a thread to help explain a situation and offer help. Yeah, Vortex's CS totally sucks.(sarcasm off) </div></div>
Please explain how a post on 1/26/2010 could have influenced my purchase in October 2009?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
(sarcasm on)Yeah, hard to like a company and get a "warm fuzzy" feeling from a company when one of the top dogs from said company comes on a thread to help explain a situation and offer help. Yeah, Vortex's CS totally sucks.(sarcasm off) </div></div>
Please explain how a post on 1/26/2010 could have influenced my purchase in October 2009?
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">that’s</span></span> customer service. The OP just had to have his scope the next day, so he coughed up the money ($111.00) to get it there. All his decision, no one else’s.
Sam,
Can you adopt me? My folks are old and won’t mind.
</div></div>
Just for the record, I never asked anyone to be refunded for the shipping, nor did I want it. It was worth it to me to have it the next day and completely my decision. Here's a slice of my PM conversation with Scott regarding the shipping:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJBello</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the great feedback. I saw your thread and I'm gonna post. <span style="font-size: 14pt">Don't sweat the shipping, it's on us.</span> I'm a shooter too.
Scott
</div></div>
Scott -
While I appreciate that, I'm not sure I'd feel right about it. That doesn't seem fair to you. It's not your scope that failed, and you're not the one who just *had* to have it the next morning on short notice.
...
</div></div>
The fact that both companies want to cover it is a credit to them, but it certainly wasn't at my request. I wouldn't ask for that.
Sam has been very accommodating regarding the matter. I'm sending the scope in and he's going to credit Scott and I'm taking a refund. To anyone else looking at a Razor: When it was working, it seemed like a solid scope. Despite the failure I tried to be as fair as I could in the review about what I liked and what were my small annoyances. I hope it helps others in deciding on a purchase.
IF you are to get one that goes bad, I have no doubt that Sam and Scott will take care of you, one way or another. Both seem to value their customers more than anything else. I personally will be watching for ongoing reviews and testing of the scope. I may yet be a Razor owner again after it goes for some time without any issues.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">that’s</span></span> customer service. The OP just had to have his scope the next day, so he coughed up the money ($111.00) to get it there. All his decision, no one else’s.
Sam,
Can you adopt me? My folks are old and won’t mind.
</div></div>
Just for the record, I never asked anyone to be refunded for the shipping, nor did I want it. It was worth it to me to have it the next day and completely my decision. Here's a slice of my PM conversation with Scott regarding the shipping:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJBello</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the great feedback. I saw your thread and I'm gonna post. <span style="font-size: 14pt">Don't sweat the shipping, it's on us.</span> I'm a shooter too.
Scott
</div></div>
Scott -
While I appreciate that, I'm not sure I'd feel right about it. That doesn't seem fair to you. It's not your scope that failed, and you're not the one who just *had* to have it the next morning on short notice.
...
</div></div>
The fact that both companies want to cover it is a credit to them, but it certainly wasn't at my request. I wouldn't ask for that.
Sam has been very accommodating regarding the matter. I'm sending the scope in and he's going to credit Scott and I'm taking a refund. To anyone else looking at a Razor: When it was working, it seemed like a solid scope. Despite the failure I tried to be as fair as I could in the review about what I liked and what were my small annoyances. I hope it helps others in deciding on a purchase.
IF you are to get one that goes bad, I have no doubt that Sam and Scott will take care of you, one way or another. Both seem to value their customers more than anything else. I personally will be watching for ongoing reviews and testing of the scope. I may yet be a Razor owner again after it goes for some time without any issues.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Shit, now I'm really on the fence about Vortex.
I hate failures, but they seem to be taking care of people, at least the vocal ones.
Not sure how to take the 20X magnification; with a Hensoldt and Premier at home, don't really want to spend $2000+ for something with Nightforce glass at 20X and up.
I'll sit and ponder for awhile, make sure the hiccups in manufacturing are fixed before committing the $$.
Sam, thanx for the explanation and willingness to step up to the plate.
Scott, as always, exceptional job.
Nice to see a few companies competing for the high-end stuff, the days of 2 or 3 choices might be over for awhile.
One thing is for certain in all this, Leupold sucks ass.
And, lastly, from the "through the scope" pics, I completely missed the christmas tree the first time around, they are faint indeed.
Shit, now I'm really on the fence about Vortex.
I hate failures, but they seem to be taking care of people, at least the vocal ones.
Not sure how to take the 20X magnification; with a Hensoldt and Premier at home, don't really want to spend $2000+ for something with Nightforce glass at 20X and up.
I'll sit and ponder for awhile, make sure the hiccups in manufacturing are fixed before committing the $$.
Sam, thanx for the explanation and willingness to step up to the plate.
Scott, as always, exceptional job.
Nice to see a few companies competing for the high-end stuff, the days of 2 or 3 choices might be over for awhile.
One thing is for certain in all this, Leupold sucks ass.
And, lastly, from the "through the scope" pics, I completely missed the christmas tree the first time around, they are faint indeed.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
I wanted to note a few more review things I thought of and post a few more pics.
The reticle - This is their "EBR-2 MRAD". It's one of the nicest executed FFP reticles I've seen (which admittedly isn't a ton). Judging from the few I have personal experience with though, and looking at lots of "through the scope" pics, I think Vortex did a very nice job. The reticle is easy to use on 5X with the nice thick outer bars, and still not TOO big at 20X. For my uses it seemed a *little* chunky at 20X, but I know it's a trade off to have it work on the lower end. Even that being the case though, the tiny open spot at the intersection (a la Leupold TMR) made up for it. I really like having that little window at the crosshair. I know some dont prefer it, but I feel like I just get a better sight picture with it. Personal preference.
It should be noted that the EBR-2 detail picture on Vortex's site does not reflect that. For me it was a pleasant surprise. Others might not care for it. Just be aware. Here's a better close up of the center (at 15X):
The only real criticism I have of the reticle is how faint the holdover marks are which I already noted.
One thing I really like about the turrets was the sequential revolution numbers in parentheses above the main number. I thought this was a really nice touch which would make it super simple to keep track of where you are. Yea, it's not hard to add 5+2 and know you're at 7 mils, but IMO it's just one less thing to think of. Better close up of that:
...
...
... While looking at the above picture and reviewing my post, I just realized that the second revolution number above the "4" appears to be wrong. It's a "(7)", but unless I'm mistaken should be a "(9)".
OK, just had to check the scope. Let's try this in sequence (watch the second rev numbers):
0-5-10
1-6-11
2-7-12
3-8-13
4-<span style="font-size: 17pt">7</span>-14
Errrr... is that a mistake or is there something I'm not getting (wouldn't be the first time! ). Well anyway, mistake or not, I like the sequential numbers above the main ones. That was what I was getting at when I noticed that discrepancy...
Here's a few more random shots from yesterday for good measure:
Beautiful day:
I wanted to note a few more review things I thought of and post a few more pics.
The reticle - This is their "EBR-2 MRAD". It's one of the nicest executed FFP reticles I've seen (which admittedly isn't a ton). Judging from the few I have personal experience with though, and looking at lots of "through the scope" pics, I think Vortex did a very nice job. The reticle is easy to use on 5X with the nice thick outer bars, and still not TOO big at 20X. For my uses it seemed a *little* chunky at 20X, but I know it's a trade off to have it work on the lower end. Even that being the case though, the tiny open spot at the intersection (a la Leupold TMR) made up for it. I really like having that little window at the crosshair. I know some dont prefer it, but I feel like I just get a better sight picture with it. Personal preference.
It should be noted that the EBR-2 detail picture on Vortex's site does not reflect that. For me it was a pleasant surprise. Others might not care for it. Just be aware. Here's a better close up of the center (at 15X):
The only real criticism I have of the reticle is how faint the holdover marks are which I already noted.
One thing I really like about the turrets was the sequential revolution numbers in parentheses above the main number. I thought this was a really nice touch which would make it super simple to keep track of where you are. Yea, it's not hard to add 5+2 and know you're at 7 mils, but IMO it's just one less thing to think of. Better close up of that:
...
... While looking at the above picture and reviewing my post, I just realized that the second revolution number above the "4" appears to be wrong. It's a "(7)", but unless I'm mistaken should be a "(9)".
OK, just had to check the scope. Let's try this in sequence (watch the second rev numbers):
0-5-10
1-6-11
2-7-12
3-8-13
4-<span style="font-size: 17pt">7</span>-14
Errrr... is that a mistake or is there something I'm not getting (wouldn't be the first time!
Here's a few more random shots from yesterday for good measure:
Beautiful day:
Re: Vortex Razor Review
At what distance was that first picture taken?
At what distance was that first picture taken?
Re: Vortex Razor Review
wtf how do they make an error like that? I wonder how many out their have that same mistake? If you were in a hurry that could really screw you up. Hopefully this is a isolated incident, if not I am sure it is a fast easy fix.
wtf how do they make an error like that? I wonder how many out their have that same mistake? If you were in a hurry that could really screw you up. Hopefully this is a isolated incident, if not I am sure it is a fast easy fix.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Wow, how embarrassing. It should be a 9. I've contacted the factory and we will get that fixed.
And of course we'll replace those for people too. I'm really sorry.
-Sam
Wow, how embarrassing. It should be a 9. I've contacted the factory and we will get that fixed.
And of course we'll replace those for people too. I'm really sorry.
-Sam
Re: Vortex Razor Review
That's a definite, "Check your fire!"
That's a definite, "Check your fire!"
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wanted to note a few more review things I thought of and post a few more pics.
The reticle - This is their "EBR-2 MRAD"........
It should be noted that the EBR-2 detail picture on Vortex's site does not reflect that. For me it was a pleasant surprise. Others might not care for it. Just be aware. Here's a better close up of the center (at 15X):
The only real criticism I have of the reticle is how faint the holdover marks are which I already noted.
</div></div>
My interpretation of the reticle drawing:
http://www.vortextactical.com/uploads/sub_razor-hd_ebr-2_details.jpg
is that there are .03mil sized "holdover" dots at each quarter-mil and .06mil sized dots each mil. Your reticle picture appears to only have 0.3mil "holdover" dots at each mil?
Per the drawing, these dots (at each mil) should be the same thickness as the main reticle and stadia lines. added: which given your photo as a reference, would be adequately sized IMO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wanted to note a few more review things I thought of and post a few more pics.
The reticle - This is their "EBR-2 MRAD"........
It should be noted that the EBR-2 detail picture on Vortex's site does not reflect that. For me it was a pleasant surprise. Others might not care for it. Just be aware. Here's a better close up of the center (at 15X):
The only real criticism I have of the reticle is how faint the holdover marks are which I already noted.
</div></div>
My interpretation of the reticle drawing:
http://www.vortextactical.com/uploads/sub_razor-hd_ebr-2_details.jpg
is that there are .03mil sized "holdover" dots at each quarter-mil and .06mil sized dots each mil. Your reticle picture appears to only have 0.3mil "holdover" dots at each mil?
Per the drawing, these dots (at each mil) should be the same thickness as the main reticle and stadia lines. added: which given your photo as a reference, would be adequately sized IMO.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wtf how do they make an error like that? I wonder how many out their have that same mistake? If you were in a hurry that could really screw you up. Hopefully this is a isolated incident, if not I am sure it is a fast easy fix. </div></div>
Well, it must be at least somewhat isolated. The turret in the Razor zero stop video appears to have the correct markings (watch it in HD, definitely a 9). That being said, it does reinforce my thought of "If they missed the red loc-tite, what else did they miss?"
At least the turret marking issue should be an easy fix (just mail out replacement turrets maybe?). At any rate, I'm sure Sam will take care of everyone.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wtf how do they make an error like that? I wonder how many out their have that same mistake? If you were in a hurry that could really screw you up. Hopefully this is a isolated incident, if not I am sure it is a fast easy fix. </div></div>
Well, it must be at least somewhat isolated. The turret in the Razor zero stop video appears to have the correct markings (watch it in HD, definitely a 9). That being said, it does reinforce my thought of "If they missed the red loc-tite, what else did they miss?"
At least the turret marking issue should be an easy fix (just mail out replacement turrets maybe?). At any rate, I'm sure Sam will take care of everyone.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My interpretation of the reticle drawing:
http://www.vortextactical.com/uploads/sub_razor-hd_ebr-2_details.jpg
is that there are .03mil sized "holdover" dots at each quarter-mil and .06mil sized dots each mil. Your reticle picture appears to only have 0.3mil "holdover" dots at each mil?
Per the drawing, these dots (at each mil) should be the same thickness as the main reticle and stadia lines. added: which given your photo as a reference, would be adequately sized IMO. </div></div>
The finer holdover dots are there (between the full mils). They are EXTREMELY fine, and really not practically useful in my opinion. The full mil holdover dots are usable probably, but they are still pretty fine. They don't appear to be the same size as the main reticle line to me. If they want to keep the holdover dots in the reticle, I would make the small ones the size that the big ones are now. Then make the big ones truly as thick as the main line. It looks as though they're spec'd that way from the drawing, but they certainly don't appear that way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My interpretation of the reticle drawing:
http://www.vortextactical.com/uploads/sub_razor-hd_ebr-2_details.jpg
is that there are .03mil sized "holdover" dots at each quarter-mil and .06mil sized dots each mil. Your reticle picture appears to only have 0.3mil "holdover" dots at each mil?
Per the drawing, these dots (at each mil) should be the same thickness as the main reticle and stadia lines. added: which given your photo as a reference, would be adequately sized IMO. </div></div>
The finer holdover dots are there (between the full mils). They are EXTREMELY fine, and really not practically useful in my opinion. The full mil holdover dots are usable probably, but they are still pretty fine. They don't appear to be the same size as the main reticle line to me. If they want to keep the holdover dots in the reticle, I would make the small ones the size that the big ones are now. Then make the big ones truly as thick as the main line. It looks as though they're spec'd that way from the drawing, but they certainly don't appear that way.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJBello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The finer holdover dots are there (between the full mils). They are EXTREMELY fine, and really not practically useful in my opinion. The full mil holdover dots are usable probably, but they are still pretty fine. They don't appear to be the same size as the main reticle line to me. If they want to keep the holdover dots in the reticle, I would make the small ones the size that the big ones are now. Then make the big ones truly as thick as the main line. It looks as though they're spec'd that way from the drawing, but they certainly don't appear that way.
</div></div>
Agreed. I think it would be good per the drawing from a thickness standpoint. Thanks for the added clairification.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJBello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The finer holdover dots are there (between the full mils). They are EXTREMELY fine, and really not practically useful in my opinion. The full mil holdover dots are usable probably, but they are still pretty fine. They don't appear to be the same size as the main reticle line to me. If they want to keep the holdover dots in the reticle, I would make the small ones the size that the big ones are now. Then make the big ones truly as thick as the main line. It looks as though they're spec'd that way from the drawing, but they certainly don't appear that way.
</div></div>
Agreed. I think it would be good per the drawing from a thickness standpoint. Thanks for the added clairification.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, how embarrassing. It should be a 9. I've contacted the factory and we will get that fixed.
And of course we'll replace those for people too. I'm really sorry.
-Sam</div></div>
I do not think you need to be embarrassed.
This is a new scope and no matter how hard you look over every little detail, there is always something that gets overlooked and comes out when you are in production and many more people look over the product.
That is the nature of trying to make things, and you are most certainly stepping up to the plate and responding to problems faster and better than any company I have seen in this business yet.
If these couple of items are the only things that need to be fixed, you are in good shape. There is usually more stuff that comes up and gets fixed quietly during the first year or two of production.
ILya
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, how embarrassing. It should be a 9. I've contacted the factory and we will get that fixed.
And of course we'll replace those for people too. I'm really sorry.
-Sam</div></div>
I do not think you need to be embarrassed.
This is a new scope and no matter how hard you look over every little detail, there is always something that gets overlooked and comes out when you are in production and many more people look over the product.
That is the nature of trying to make things, and you are most certainly stepping up to the plate and responding to problems faster and better than any company I have seen in this business yet.
If these couple of items are the only things that need to be fixed, you are in good shape. There is usually more stuff that comes up and gets fixed quietly during the first year or two of production.
ILya
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Oh ain't this special, Sam steps up and does the right thing, AJ shouldn't have had to post anything other than my scope broke, it's brand new and it was taken care of immediately, but instead a brand new scope breaks, he posts about what the nice lady said on phone, and then the right thing was done, kudos for your delayed customer service!
Oh ain't this special, Sam steps up and does the right thing, AJ shouldn't have had to post anything other than my scope broke, it's brand new and it was taken care of immediately, but instead a brand new scope breaks, he posts about what the nice lady said on phone, and then the right thing was done, kudos for your delayed customer service!
Re: Vortex Razor Review
My Razor showed up today in the mail. Thank you Scott for prompt shipping. It's appreciated.
I'll check my turrets when I get home to see if they are mis-marked also. Hopefully they aren't.
My Razor showed up today in the mail. Thank you Scott for prompt shipping. It's appreciated.
I'll check my turrets when I get home to see if they are mis-marked also. Hopefully they aren't.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AJ,
What can I say, but I m just really sorry about what happened. I know that it is frustrating and we will do whatever it takes to make you happy. I would be pretty ticked off if I were you also.
If you still don't want the scope after your hassle I will completely understand, however I just wanted to offer up a couple of explanations in case that might help make you feel more at ease.
First of all, I know that Julie was just doing her best under the circumstances. After Jpipes thread we got a couple calls from customers who reported the same thing. When we got those scopes back it turned out that in fact there was nothing wrong, the customers had just set the zero stop incorrectly. So, according to what I was told by Corey, we just wanted to get the scope back first to make sure that it was the same problem that Jpipes had before we sent out a new scope. So, if it is in fact the same problem you will be getting a new scope. Corey just wants to actually verify that there is something wrong first.
As to the problem itself, I think that some people's first reaction might be to think that there is something majorly wrong with the scope. In fact, the issue is really very minor. There's nothing wrong with the design of the zero stop, it's simply a minor installation error that unfortunately has turned in to a major headache. Basically, the pin that stops the rotation of the turret is threaded into a brass collar. That pin was supposed to have red loctite put on the threads and there were a few that didn't have that installed for some reason. So, what is happening on a few scopes is that pin is unthreading and falling out. That causes the turret to bind on the way down, because it's pinching the stop pin between the collar and the bottom of the turret. See below image:
Fixing it is extremely easy. It's simply putting red loctite on threads of that pin and screwing it back in. With red loctite on there it's not coming out without putting a torch on it and heating it up until it's scorching hot. The only real issue is that to access the pin we have to remove the turret and that's why we are having them sent back in. Once the repair is done the scope is as good as new.
Now despite that, we are just replacing the scopes if they have this problem, because we don't want people to be waiting any longer than possible while we make the repair.
You can rest assured that we made it abundantly clear to the factory that this was absolutely unacceptable and told them they need to be absolutely perfect in every aspect of putting this scope together. They have assured us it won't happen again. We are also in the process of determining which serial numbers have the issue so that we can do our best to deal with all of them.
Anyway, I guess that is enough excuses from me. Excuses don't change the past, I can only try to do whatever is necessary from this point forward to make things as right as possible.
Bottom line is that making our customer happy is our top priority and I'm am just very sorry that this happened to you. This is a really unfortunate incident and I wish that there was a way we could have avoided giving you the hassle in the first place. At this point I can say that we will do whatever it takes to make things right and get you a perfect working scope ASAP.
If there is anything else that I can do just send me an email or a PM and I will take care of it.
-Sam </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Sam</span>, Thanks for talking with us on this matter. Just you chiming in makes me feel a whole lot better about going a head and trying one of these scopes.
<span style="font-weight: bold"> AJ</span> Thanks for posting some more pictures, I think that scope looks damn good!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AJ,
What can I say, but I m just really sorry about what happened. I know that it is frustrating and we will do whatever it takes to make you happy. I would be pretty ticked off if I were you also.
If you still don't want the scope after your hassle I will completely understand, however I just wanted to offer up a couple of explanations in case that might help make you feel more at ease.
First of all, I know that Julie was just doing her best under the circumstances. After Jpipes thread we got a couple calls from customers who reported the same thing. When we got those scopes back it turned out that in fact there was nothing wrong, the customers had just set the zero stop incorrectly. So, according to what I was told by Corey, we just wanted to get the scope back first to make sure that it was the same problem that Jpipes had before we sent out a new scope. So, if it is in fact the same problem you will be getting a new scope. Corey just wants to actually verify that there is something wrong first.
As to the problem itself, I think that some people's first reaction might be to think that there is something majorly wrong with the scope. In fact, the issue is really very minor. There's nothing wrong with the design of the zero stop, it's simply a minor installation error that unfortunately has turned in to a major headache. Basically, the pin that stops the rotation of the turret is threaded into a brass collar. That pin was supposed to have red loctite put on the threads and there were a few that didn't have that installed for some reason. So, what is happening on a few scopes is that pin is unthreading and falling out. That causes the turret to bind on the way down, because it's pinching the stop pin between the collar and the bottom of the turret. See below image:
Fixing it is extremely easy. It's simply putting red loctite on threads of that pin and screwing it back in. With red loctite on there it's not coming out without putting a torch on it and heating it up until it's scorching hot. The only real issue is that to access the pin we have to remove the turret and that's why we are having them sent back in. Once the repair is done the scope is as good as new.
Now despite that, we are just replacing the scopes if they have this problem, because we don't want people to be waiting any longer than possible while we make the repair.
You can rest assured that we made it abundantly clear to the factory that this was absolutely unacceptable and told them they need to be absolutely perfect in every aspect of putting this scope together. They have assured us it won't happen again. We are also in the process of determining which serial numbers have the issue so that we can do our best to deal with all of them.
Anyway, I guess that is enough excuses from me. Excuses don't change the past, I can only try to do whatever is necessary from this point forward to make things as right as possible.
Bottom line is that making our customer happy is our top priority and I'm am just very sorry that this happened to you. This is a really unfortunate incident and I wish that there was a way we could have avoided giving you the hassle in the first place. At this point I can say that we will do whatever it takes to make things right and get you a perfect working scope ASAP.
If there is anything else that I can do just send me an email or a PM and I will take care of it.
-Sam </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Sam</span>, Thanks for talking with us on this matter. Just you chiming in makes me feel a whole lot better about going a head and trying one of these scopes.
<span style="font-weight: bold"> AJ</span> Thanks for posting some more pictures, I think that scope looks damn good!
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh ain't this special, Sam steps up and does the right thing, AJ shouldn't have had to post anything other than my scope broke, it's brand new and it was taken care of immediately, but instead a brand new scope breaks, he posts about what the nice lady said on phone, and then the right thing was done, kudos for your delayed customer service!</div></div>
Come on 427Cobra, you can't judge an entire company by what the person answering the phone in customer service says. I'm sure she was a little afraid of overpromising and getting in trouble for it. Guys like Sam have the authority to get problems solved, not receptionist. Call any business whether it's scopes, computers, guns, etc. The first line of customer service does not have the pull to fix everything.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh ain't this special, Sam steps up and does the right thing, AJ shouldn't have had to post anything other than my scope broke, it's brand new and it was taken care of immediately, but instead a brand new scope breaks, he posts about what the nice lady said on phone, and then the right thing was done, kudos for your delayed customer service!</div></div>
Come on 427Cobra, you can't judge an entire company by what the person answering the phone in customer service says. I'm sure she was a little afraid of overpromising and getting in trouble for it. Guys like Sam have the authority to get problems solved, not receptionist. Call any business whether it's scopes, computers, guns, etc. The first line of customer service does not have the pull to fix everything.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
You can't judge a company by that, but who ever is handling the call is the face of the company at that particular time for that customer. Every company will have it's growing pains, it's how they handle adverse conditions is what is going to make or brake them.
The "7" issue is just funny for me. Good thing it really doesn't effect the way the scope functions...
You can't judge a company by that, but who ever is handling the call is the face of the company at that particular time for that customer. Every company will have it's growing pains, it's how they handle adverse conditions is what is going to make or brake them.
The "7" issue is just funny for me. Good thing it really doesn't effect the way the scope functions...
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "7" issue is just funny for me. Good thing it really doesn't effect the way the scope functions...</div></div>
+1, that "7" made me chuckle when I saw it, first thought was "I'd hate to be the guy that answers Sam's call at the factory".
I'll bet I could have shot that scope for a year and not have noticed that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "7" issue is just funny for me. Good thing it really doesn't effect the way the scope functions...</div></div>
+1, that "7" made me chuckle when I saw it, first thought was "I'd hate to be the guy that answers Sam's call at the factory".
I'll bet I could have shot that scope for a year and not have noticed that.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "7" issue is just funny for me. Good thing it really doesn't effect the way the scope functions...</div></div>
+1, that "7" made me chuckle when I saw it, first thought was "I'd hate to be the guy that answers Sam's call at the factory".
I'll bet I could have shot that scope for a year and not have noticed that. </div></div>
I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, I'll say it again, the Razor is the NXS carried to the <span style="color: #FF0000">nth</span> degree. <span style="font-weight: bold">It is everything the NXS could be, but isn't</span>. Nothing wrong with the NXS, but <span style="font-weight: bold">the Razor is spec'd out to a higher standard</span>. Not sure why that message isn't sinking in but I aim to correct that....iso
$2000 <span style="font-weight: bold">Basic QC </span>chuckle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "7" issue is just funny for me. Good thing it really doesn't effect the way the scope functions...</div></div>
+1, that "7" made me chuckle when I saw it, first thought was "I'd hate to be the guy that answers Sam's call at the factory".
I'll bet I could have shot that scope for a year and not have noticed that. </div></div>
I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, I'll say it again, the Razor is the NXS carried to the <span style="color: #FF0000">nth</span> degree. <span style="font-weight: bold">It is everything the NXS could be, but isn't</span>. Nothing wrong with the NXS, but <span style="font-weight: bold">the Razor is spec'd out to a higher standard</span>. Not sure why that message isn't sinking in but I aim to correct that....iso
$2000 <span style="font-weight: bold">Basic QC </span>chuckle
Re: Vortex Razor Review
I would never had noticed it.
I would never had noticed it.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Jason you need a new job so you can get more trigger time?
AJ I hope you have a backup scope because out weather is suppossed to be "good" until Saturday..........that almost a whole dry WEEK!!
I was leary of Vortex at first......new company etc etc....than the features the customer service, the scope etc etc. Plus having Sam on here along with Scott made it like a family thing. Then Jason offered me a shot at his Vortex when it arrives....I was around the corner and reaching for my wallet.........then....?
I commend Sam.....hey everything breaks and new products have some initial hickups......even a new Mercedes comes back on a tow truck here and again.
The one thing that would make me feel better is if when Sam got off of the phone or the Hide website he could walk out on the factory floor "His" factory for his company and just fix it.
I am not blaming Sam......if he had a factory setup in good ole USA maybe the scope would be $3000........maybe at this stage they aren't selling enough scopes to justify a factory. But I'd love it even even Sam had a 5000 sq ft shop and 5 good people putting these babies together in a place he owned. Never will the people working at a factory as a subcontractor have the pride and personal commitment to the product that Sam or HIS employees do.
I am back leaning towards Leupold for now......hey maybe a NF. I know guys have opinions on Leupold.....I just know that in AJ's case he could have driven an hour and been at the 125,000 sq ft plant at Leupold and when they found out what part it was they could have walked him back to the guy running the machine making the part and then taken him to the clean room and had the installer install the new part while he watched. Back shooting that afternoon.
I hope someday Sam has 600 American employees and big plant in the USA......but if he did he might lose the hours in a day to get involved with stuff like this......board of directors etc etc.
Who knows?? But at least Vortex has someone answering the phones and fixing things versus not
Jason you need a new job so you can get more trigger time?
I was leary of Vortex at first......new company etc etc....than the features the customer service, the scope etc etc. Plus having Sam on here along with Scott made it like a family thing. Then Jason offered me a shot at his Vortex when it arrives....I was around the corner and reaching for my wallet.........then....?
I commend Sam.....hey everything breaks and new products have some initial hickups......even a new Mercedes comes back on a tow truck here and again.
The one thing that would make me feel better is if when Sam got off of the phone or the Hide website he could walk out on the factory floor "His" factory for his company and just fix it.
I am not blaming Sam......if he had a factory setup in good ole USA maybe the scope would be $3000........maybe at this stage they aren't selling enough scopes to justify a factory. But I'd love it even even Sam had a 5000 sq ft shop and 5 good people putting these babies together in a place he owned. Never will the people working at a factory as a subcontractor have the pride and personal commitment to the product that Sam or HIS employees do.
I am back leaning towards Leupold for now......hey maybe a NF. I know guys have opinions on Leupold.....I just know that in AJ's case he could have driven an hour and been at the 125,000 sq ft plant at Leupold and when they found out what part it was they could have walked him back to the guy running the machine making the part and then taken him to the clean room and had the installer install the new part while he watched. Back shooting that afternoon.
I hope someday Sam has 600 American employees and big plant in the USA......but if he did he might lose the hours in a day to get involved with stuff like this......board of directors etc etc.
Who knows?? But at least Vortex has someone answering the phones and fixing things versus not
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Thanks for the concern Derek, but the good news is I got out today for a loooong lunch with my Surgeon 243
Thanks for the concern Derek, but the good news is I got out today for a loooong lunch with my Surgeon 243
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Well yeah... there are a few minor errors on a new first run scope.
The flip side is excellent customer service.
Wow- Vortex really got themselves into hot water when they made a commitment to ACTUALLY LISTEN to the comments of their customers! Vortex could have taken the attitude some high end scope companies have: "We will manufacture what we want and you will G D like it!" "Oh by the way we will charge you $200 for that new cool feature that you really wanted- too bad for you that we are not willing to make a scope with the other features you wanted. At least not right now- we are hoping to sell you another scope with more features in two or three years."
For these reasons I am very excited to see Vortex arrive on the scene.
For the record I don't know much about scopes- I just know what I like. I am most concerned about the shadowing effect that some others have mentioned. I think the turret issues can be easily fixed. The overall concept of the little dots off to the side is excellent but I knew right away that they would be too small to work in the real world. This can also be fixed in later models.
BUT and its a big BUT- They are LISTENING TO US!!! and that makes all the difference.
Lets hope the PST does everything the Razor doesn't.
Well yeah... there are a few minor errors on a new first run scope.
The flip side is excellent customer service.
Wow- Vortex really got themselves into hot water when they made a commitment to ACTUALLY LISTEN to the comments of their customers! Vortex could have taken the attitude some high end scope companies have: "We will manufacture what we want and you will G D like it!" "Oh by the way we will charge you $200 for that new cool feature that you really wanted- too bad for you that we are not willing to make a scope with the other features you wanted. At least not right now- we are hoping to sell you another scope with more features in two or three years."
For these reasons I am very excited to see Vortex arrive on the scene.
For the record I don't know much about scopes- I just know what I like. I am most concerned about the shadowing effect that some others have mentioned. I think the turret issues can be easily fixed. The overall concept of the little dots off to the side is excellent but I knew right away that they would be too small to work in the real world. This can also be fixed in later models.
BUT and its a big BUT- They are LISTENING TO US!!! and that makes all the difference.
Lets hope the PST does everything the Razor doesn't.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
I heard that Toyota has 7 models of cars on hold right now for faulty brakes. I wonder how long Toyota has been making cars with this new feature- "brakes".
By the way take a look at the "up" marking on a NXS sometime. (on the scope body) Not exactly right either.
I heard that Toyota has 7 models of cars on hold right now for faulty brakes. I wonder how long Toyota has been making cars with this new feature- "brakes".
By the way take a look at the "up" marking on a NXS sometime. (on the scope body) Not exactly right either.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
good read
good read
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By the way take a look at the "up" marking on a NXS sometime. (on the scope body) Not exactly right either. </div></div>
NXS pic . OK... Im looking at it. Whats wrong with it???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By the way take a look at the "up" marking on a NXS sometime. (on the scope body) Not exactly right either. </div></div>
NXS pic . OK... Im looking at it. Whats wrong with it???
Re: Vortex Razor Review
NXS - I have seen them showing the "up" arrow going around the scope tube- not the direction the turret spins- yes I am nit picking.
NXS - I have seen them showing the "up" arrow going around the scope tube- not the direction the turret spins- yes I am nit picking.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NXS - I have seen them showing the "up" arrow going around the scope tube- not the direction the turret spins- yes I am nit picking. </div></div>
Holy cow I guess you're nit picking! You mean because the "UP" arrow has the slight curve down, instead of up... that's what you mean? Hell man I'd just call that a styling cue, not something "wrong".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NXS - I have seen them showing the "up" arrow going around the scope tube- not the direction the turret spins- yes I am nit picking. </div></div>
Holy cow I guess you're nit picking! You mean because the "UP" arrow has the slight curve down, instead of up... that's what you mean? Hell man I'd just call that a styling cue, not something "wrong".
Re: Vortex Razor Review
seems to me they are saying you should twist the tube- not the turret
seems to me they are saying you should twist the tube- not the turret
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Nightforce makes a nice scope and I would buy one again even with their goofy markings - if they made a scope with the features I want at a reasonable price (they don't).
Doesn't matter - Nightforce isn't reading this thread - only Sam is. Which is why Sam and Co. are gonna kick their ass (eventually).
Nightforce makes a nice scope and I would buy one again even with their goofy markings
Doesn't matter - Nightforce isn't reading this thread - only Sam is. Which is why Sam and Co. are gonna kick their ass (eventually).
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Honestly....Ive thought about this alot over that past 24 hours...probably too much in fact. I did check my elevation turret and it is mis-marked just like AJ's, but so what. As long as they send me a new one then it will be ok.
The only real issue that worries me is just like what was stated above with the shadowing and having trouble getting a full sight picture through the scope. Ive already noticed this in mine, BUT im thinking i need to get it set on a rifle before I determine if it will not work for me. Its hard to tell much about a scope by just holding it up and trying to look through it without it being on the rifle. Im going to set it in the lower rings tomorrow without clamping it down (I dont want to put marks on it if Im not going to keep it) and get down behind the rifle to see what I think about the shadowing.
Im not a sniper, Im not LE, Im not anybody special and my life will never depend on this optic ( atleast I hope not). This scope will be on a rifle that is almost 100% range steel and paper, maybe a tacticle match if I ever get good enough. Im not hard on my equipment and I take very good care of my stuff because I want it to "work" everytime I go to use it and so that I can retain as much resale value as possible. With all that being said, I most likely would never come close to exposing this scope to the level of abuse that it could probably handle. I hope that after I get down behind it tomorrow I will like it. I want it to work....I really do, but if its not for me then I will box it up and send it back. Will I buy Vortex again? YES I certainly will and fact Im about to buy a Viper for my wife's .308. Of all the optics out there Im choosing the Vortex Viper for her rifle so I do have faith in the company and I will never turn my back on them....I'd be a fool to.
Honestly....Ive thought about this alot over that past 24 hours...probably too much in fact. I did check my elevation turret and it is mis-marked just like AJ's, but so what. As long as they send me a new one then it will be ok.
The only real issue that worries me is just like what was stated above with the shadowing and having trouble getting a full sight picture through the scope. Ive already noticed this in mine, BUT im thinking i need to get it set on a rifle before I determine if it will not work for me. Its hard to tell much about a scope by just holding it up and trying to look through it without it being on the rifle. Im going to set it in the lower rings tomorrow without clamping it down (I dont want to put marks on it if Im not going to keep it) and get down behind the rifle to see what I think about the shadowing.
Im not a sniper, Im not LE, Im not anybody special and my life will never depend on this optic ( atleast I hope not). This scope will be on a rifle that is almost 100% range steel and paper, maybe a tacticle match if I ever get good enough. Im not hard on my equipment and I take very good care of my stuff because I want it to "work" everytime I go to use it and so that I can retain as much resale value as possible. With all that being said, I most likely would never come close to exposing this scope to the level of abuse that it could probably handle. I hope that after I get down behind it tomorrow I will like it. I want it to work....I really do, but if its not for me then I will box it up and send it back. Will I buy Vortex again? YES I certainly will and fact Im about to buy a Viper for my wife's .308. Of all the optics out there Im choosing the Vortex Viper for her rifle so I do have faith in the company and I will never turn my back on them....I'd be a fool to.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Best customer service in the world=not having to use it.
427Cobra is spot on.
Until people demand that stuff (and not so CHEAP stuff I might add) is GTG to go right out of the box, this will continue from a whole host of companies.
Kudos to Scott for at least trying to get this unfucked but still, stuff should be made right the first time, especially when it costs 2000 dollars.
It least its Tannerite proof
Best customer service in the world=not having to use it.
427Cobra is spot on.
Until people demand that stuff (and not so CHEAP stuff I might add) is GTG to go right out of the box, this will continue from a whole host of companies.
Kudos to Scott for at least trying to get this unfucked but still, stuff should be made right the first time, especially when it costs 2000 dollars.
It least its Tannerite proof
Re: Vortex Razor Review
Personally I am looking forward to my next couple of scope purchases, they will both be Vortex.
I do not give a rats ass WHO you think you are, *NOBODY* is perfect in this world. To suggest any, and/or all, mfg. has to be absolutely without flaw is unrealistic to put it mildly.
With this level of CS, you can bet your bottom dollar I will be pointing my friends solidly at Vortex. Once Sam heard about the problem he took care of it promptly. Try that with the other big name scopes that DO have problems at times. Guess what? They are human too, and things happen. Life goes on, deal with it.
As for Scott, yes he is human too, I will buy from him with 100% confidence that if something goes south I will be taken care of.
Good Shooting,
Gary
Personally I am looking forward to my next couple of scope purchases, they will both be Vortex.
I do not give a rats ass WHO you think you are, *NOBODY* is perfect in this world. To suggest any, and/or all, mfg. has to be absolutely without flaw is unrealistic to put it mildly.
With this level of CS, you can bet your bottom dollar I will be pointing my friends solidly at Vortex. Once Sam heard about the problem he took care of it promptly. Try that with the other big name scopes that DO have problems at times. Guess what? They are human too, and things happen. Life goes on, deal with it.
As for Scott, yes he is human too, I will buy from him with 100% confidence that if something goes south I will be taken care of.
Good Shooting,
Gary
Re: Vortex Razor Review
So what's going to happen to these used and repaired scopes that get returned?
I can't afford the Razor, though I'd love to try one. Used seems the only way I could afford it, though, and probably not even then. I'll keep dreaming . . .
That being said, I'm still interested in a Viper PST. I feel I'll be well taken care of if anything were to go wrong. Granted, I'd prefer it if nothing went wrong, but everybody takes a risk buying a first generation of any product, so I know I'm making a small gamble.
I commend both Sam and Scott on how well they've handled this situation.
So what's going to happen to these used and repaired scopes that get returned?
That being said, I'm still interested in a Viper PST. I feel I'll be well taken care of if anything were to go wrong. Granted, I'd prefer it if nothing went wrong, but everybody takes a risk buying a first generation of any product, so I know I'm making a small gamble.
I commend both Sam and Scott on how well they've handled this situation.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nightforce makes a nice scope and I would buy one again even with their goofy markings - if they made a scope with the features I want at a reasonable price (they don't).
Doesn't matter - Nightforce isn't reading this thread - only Sam is. Which is why Sam and Co. are gonna kick their ass (eventually). </div></div>
You're a fool
Just sayin'.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nightforce makes a nice scope and I would buy one again even with their goofy markings
Doesn't matter - Nightforce isn't reading this thread - only Sam is. Which is why Sam and Co. are gonna kick their ass (eventually). </div></div>
You're a fool
Just sayin'.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what's going to happen to these used and repaired scopes that get returned? I can't afford the Razor, though I'd love to try one. Used seems the only way I could afford it, though, and probably not even then. I'll keep dreaming . . .
</div></div>
Me too until the economy shapes up........
Now back to the other stuff:
Most folks saying that they wouldn't notice the 7 where it should be a 9 says a lot in itself.
I don't know about you all, but sometimes under stress (luckily for me this is just in match conditions on a one way range) I tend to use every edge I have available. If I stepped up to a COF that had targets at 500, 850 and then back to 500 and I had time to dial I would. With the Razor being only 5 mil a rev, I would be very conscious about what rev I was on, and would I use every mark I can (that's why they're there).
Here's what the above described stage would sound like: "Steve, prep time's up, standby, Fire!"
Bang-"Impact!"
Bang-"2 mils high"
Bang-"Impact"
I'm hoping I would notice something like that prior to using the scope in a match, but I've been known to change thigs at the last minute (not a good plan).
I'm glad it was caught and I'm sure it will be changed. In all honesty, the loctite and misnumbered turret are nothing compared to what's happened with scopes that have come out pushing the edge of the envelope.........
The "mismarked" NF's scopes is some funny shit, however!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what's going to happen to these used and repaired scopes that get returned?
</div></div>
Me too until the economy shapes up........
Now back to the other stuff:
Most folks saying that they wouldn't notice the 7 where it should be a 9 says a lot in itself.
I don't know about you all, but sometimes under stress (luckily for me this is just in match conditions on a one way range) I tend to use every edge I have available. If I stepped up to a COF that had targets at 500, 850 and then back to 500 and I had time to dial I would. With the Razor being only 5 mil a rev, I would be very conscious about what rev I was on, and would I use every mark I can (that's why they're there).
Here's what the above described stage would sound like: "Steve, prep time's up, standby, Fire!"
Bang-"Impact!"
Bang-"2 mils high"
Bang-"Impact"
I'm hoping I would notice something like that prior to using the scope in a match, but I've been known to change thigs at the last minute (not a good plan).
I'm glad it was caught and I'm sure it will be changed. In all honesty, the loctite and misnumbered turret are nothing compared to what's happened with scopes that have come out pushing the edge of the envelope.........
The "mismarked" NF's scopes is some funny shit, however!!
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what's going to happen to these used and repaired scopes that get returned? I can't afford the Razor, though I'd love to try one. Used seems the only way I could afford it, though, and probably not even then. I'll keep dreaming . . .
</div></div>
Me too until the economy shapes up........
Now back to the other stuff:
Most folks saying that they wouldn't notice the 7 where it should be a 9 says a lot in itself.
I don't know about you all, but sometimes under stress (luckily for me this is just in match conditions on a one way range) I tend to use every edge I have available. If I stepped up to a COF that had targets at 500, 850 and then back to 500 and I had time to dial I would. With the Razor being only 5 mil a rev, I would be very conscious about what rev I was on, and would I use every mark I can (that's why they're there).
Here's what the above described stage would sound like: "Steve, prep time's up, standby, Fire!"
Bang-"Impact!"
Bang-"2 mils high"
Bang-"Impact"
I'm hoping I would notice something like that prior to using the scope in a match, but I've been known to change thigs at the last minute (not a good plan).
I'm glad it was caught and I'm sure it will be changed. In all honesty, the loctite and misnumbered turret are nothing compared to what's happened with scopes that have come out pushing the edge of the envelope.........
The "mismarked" NF's scopes is some funny shit, however!!
</div></div>
I can only do base 5.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what's going to happen to these used and repaired scopes that get returned?
</div></div>
Me too until the economy shapes up........
Now back to the other stuff:
Most folks saying that they wouldn't notice the 7 where it should be a 9 says a lot in itself.
I don't know about you all, but sometimes under stress (luckily for me this is just in match conditions on a one way range) I tend to use every edge I have available. If I stepped up to a COF that had targets at 500, 850 and then back to 500 and I had time to dial I would. With the Razor being only 5 mil a rev, I would be very conscious about what rev I was on, and would I use every mark I can (that's why they're there).
Here's what the above described stage would sound like: "Steve, prep time's up, standby, Fire!"
Bang-"Impact!"
Bang-"2 mils high"
Bang-"Impact"
I'm hoping I would notice something like that prior to using the scope in a match, but I've been known to change thigs at the last minute (not a good plan).
I'm glad it was caught and I'm sure it will be changed. In all honesty, the loctite and misnumbered turret are nothing compared to what's happened with scopes that have come out pushing the edge of the envelope.........
The "mismarked" NF's scopes is some funny shit, however!!
</div></div>
I can only do base 5.....
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nightforce makes a nice scope and I would buy one again even with their goofy markings - if they made a scope with the features I want at a reasonable price (they don't).
Doesn't matter - Nightforce isn't reading this thread - only Sam is. Which is why Sam and Co. are gonna kick their ass (eventually). </div></div>
You<span style="color: #FF0000">'</span>r<span style="color: #FF0000">e</span> a fool
Just sayin'. </div></div>
C- insult.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nightforce makes a nice scope and I would buy one again even with their goofy markings
Doesn't matter - Nightforce isn't reading this thread - only Sam is. Which is why Sam and Co. are gonna kick their ass (eventually). </div></div>
You<span style="color: #FF0000">'</span>r<span style="color: #FF0000">e</span> a fool
Just sayin'. </div></div>
C- insult.
Re: Vortex Razor Review
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most folks saying that they wouldn't notice the 7 where it should be a 9 says a lot in itself.
I don't know about you all, but sometimes under stress (luckily for me this is just in match conditions on a one way range) I tend to use every edge I have available. If I stepped up to a COF that had targets at 500, 850 and then back to 500 and I had time to dial I would. With the Razor being only 5 mil a rev, I would be very conscious about what rev I was on, and would I use every mark I can (that's why they're there).
Here's what the above described stage would sound like: "Steve, prep time's up, standby, Fire!"
Bang-"Impact!"
Bang-"2 mils high"
Bang-"Impact"
I'm hoping I would notice something like that prior to using the scope in a match, but I've been known to change thigs at the last minute (not a good plan).
</div></div>
You need to get a more modern cartridge, I wouldn't even need to turn up to 9 (or in this case "7 number 2") until I got to 1100 yards or so. Maybe that's why some of us wouldn't notice....as we get to 850 and we're still in the 5's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most folks saying that they wouldn't notice the 7 where it should be a 9 says a lot in itself.
I don't know about you all, but sometimes under stress (luckily for me this is just in match conditions on a one way range) I tend to use every edge I have available. If I stepped up to a COF that had targets at 500, 850 and then back to 500 and I had time to dial I would. With the Razor being only 5 mil a rev, I would be very conscious about what rev I was on, and would I use every mark I can (that's why they're there).
Here's what the above described stage would sound like: "Steve, prep time's up, standby, Fire!"
Bang-"Impact!"
Bang-"2 mils high"
Bang-"Impact"
I'm hoping I would notice something like that prior to using the scope in a match, but I've been known to change thigs at the last minute (not a good plan).
</div></div>
You need to get a more modern cartridge, I wouldn't even need to turn up to 9 (or in this case "7 number 2") until I got to 1100 yards or so. Maybe that's why some of us wouldn't notice....as we get to 850 and we're still in the 5's
Re: Vortex Razor Review
The 7WSM can do everything I want it to do within 10 mils.
The 7WSM can do everything I want it to do within 10 mils.
