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WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

patsim

Son of Liberty
Full Member
Minuteman
May 2, 2010
0
0
Southern Indiana
I'm sure I'm not the first to mention this, but it's been on my mind for a week or two, and I'd lile to start a dialogue here.

In our attempt to defend and protect our Second Amendement Rights, many of us have attempted to divert the attention from the weapon to the cause--a notion which, while I wholeheartedly support, I think has been maligned.

It seems the most common refrain is something along the lines of, "We need to address the Mental Health issues" ("mental" will be a catchall henceforth). While I do not dispute that there is a burgeoning mental health crisis in our country, it is largely irrelevant to the discussion of our Rights.

Are these mass-killers "mental"? Yes, no, maybe...Honestly, I neither know nor care. What do I know... that their actions were EVIL.

I believe that focusing on the "mental" is the slipperiest of slopes, and is the Greatest single threat to our Rights. We have no Constitutional provisions to protect us from the abuses that I foresee manifesting themselves in the guise of "mental". Consider who determines what "mental" is: the APA, AMA, etc. These groups, not without exception I understand, are largely a pasrt of the liberal elite that seeks to usurp our Rights. With but a few strokes of the pen at their next conference or review of the DSM, they can capriciously and without a "check" redefine what "mental" is.

It also does a great disservice to the, probably, 99%+ of "mental" who neither have nor ever will hurt anyone.

It's time to call it what is is: EVIL. Nothing more; nothing less.

I hate that EVIL cannot easily be put into a little box and legislated out of existence, but that's the world in which we live.

Think about it: who, in their right mind (pun intended!)can dispute that a "mental" person should have their gun ownership Rights restricted or completely revoked in the name of Public Safety. Oh, and for the Children.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

I believe that you're on the right track. The question is, how to promote this view?
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

I see both sides of the issue, but Patsim you've definately got a point. There are many carrying arms that may be considered mental by some who would NEVER commit such atrocities.
Its a great argument for the 9th ammendment (my fav)which states,
""The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe that you're on the right track. The question is, how to promote this view? </div></div>

1. By informing your fellow 2A supporters of the very real possibility that our Rights could very feasibly be "diagnosed" away from us by unelected, unaccountable (until it's too late) medical practioners.

2. Tell them not to succumb to the allure of blaming EVIL on mental health issues.

3. The wolf (usurpation of our Rights)will likely come wearing sheep's clothing (redefining "mental" issues in the name of public safety).

Sure, they will keep the chatter about an AW ban alive and question the "need" for the Second Amendment and talk about limiting magazine capacities while quietly--probably imperceptibly so--working behind the scenes to devise a way to clinically diagnose away the "problem".
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

Though I agree your on the right track, consider this:


-There really is no Evil, nor even right or wrong. Those are just relative terms dependent on circumstance.

-What there is, is more or less efficient use of energy.

-All 'things;, are first, 'energy'.

-Intent, Choice, and Will, determine how energy manifests into physical reality.

-To use enegry in creative ways, ways which benifit and cause pleasure for yourslf and others around you is efficient use of energy. That way creats a full life which in turn creates more life. Its an open ended system.

-To use energy to cause pain and suffering to yourself and others around you is inefficient use because it desroys life. Its a closed ended system.

-In the same way, except in the case of actual physical malfunction, there is no mental illness.

-The mind, source of the mental aspect, is but a processor.

-It can add, subtract, divide, multiply, and carry out tasks.

-The true source of the type of problem we are discussing, originates in the emotions which are originated in and stored in the heart.

-The emotions, when healthy, naturally create life.

-LIfe is the 'Sine quanon', that which is indispenable. Without life, nothing.

-When damaged or misaligned due to trauma, emotions cause the heart to send faulty signals to the mind, and the mind in turn sends faulty signals to the Intent, Choices, and Will, which in turn create an unhealthy, mis-aligned physical reality.

-Im not the first one to come up with this idea. A REALLY wise philosopher said it this way thousands of years ago.

-"Guard your heart with all vigilance for from it flow the issues of life."

-Gey it?...its not the brain, or mind, we need to deal with. Its the heart from which flow the creations, or "issues" of life.

-Realign the heart, the seat of the emotions, and the misuse, or the inefficient use, of energy, corrects itself.

Maggot out.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

Calling evil a mental issue is a politically correct, feel good measure which allows the liberals to maintain their utopian beliefs that human beings are peaceful creatures and no one is any different than they are unless they are suffering from some sort of illness. They are comfortable with their heads in the sand and will fight any attempts to force them to face reality. You'll play hell getting them to admit the truth.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

I appreciate your sentiments and posit that the four letter word I chose could be the "term" for your "definition".

Call it good/bad, love/hate, positive/negative, black/white, proton/electron, yin/yang...

I hesitated to use the term for the obvious implications; however, that is really tangential to the point I am trying to make:

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">I fear that our Rights are under threat of being diagnosed away.</span></span>
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

Patsim, you are on target.

The most observable example is how normal male behavior has been pathologized. "Sexual harrassment." "Homophobia." "Domestic violence." Little boys are even being deconditioned from pointing their fingers and saying "bang, bang." Talk in class? Bored with a sub-standard teacher? Prescription amphetamines for you! Meanwhile, we are regaled with tales of the evils of speed. Only government-approved speed is "good"—for children!

Pavlov's dogs were worse-behaved than the average feminized male these days.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patsim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">I fear that our Rights are under threat of being diagnosed away.</span></span> </div></div>

To the core of the issue. Ive find that things often come in three', like, buiness, politics, and religon. Brhama, Shiva, Vishnu, or or diagnosed, legislated, and medicated (medicated includes lousy diet through fast foods, GMO's, poisend water and air, etc.)
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Though I agree your on the right track, consider this:


-There really is no Evil, nor even right or wrong. Those are just relative terms dependent on circumstance.

</div></div>

This statement = bullseye.

Just ask someone if they'd ever steal a loaf of bread. Most responses will be based on the current context of their existence meaning: they're not in need and this action is, at the moment, socially unacceptable.

A simple change of context in the question to a time of need or global despair, and any slightly openminded or honest person would respond opposite.

Living and working through a few of the historically remembered natural disasters in the SE really opened my eyes to how shockingly thin the veneer of "society" is.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

3 things (and some ain't gonna like 'em)

A. Evil is real. And so as not to devolve this into a religious conversation, let's just say that an agnostic's 'inappropriate thought' is semantics for evil. Moreover, unless one is crazier than a shit house rat - they full on know right from wrong at the most basic level.

B. Hardnen the fuck up - the human experience IS hard, is full of sorrow, loss all the other negative shit that happens. Guess what? Everyone gets their fair share, and it has a purpose. Again, not here to talk religion.

C. Understand the role of psychotropics from the perspective of the drug companies - to make money. The more people they can convince that 'every day should be a great day' and you should never have get your fair share of the human experience is one more customer. Understand how little is know about mental illness compared to heart disease, understand that while the drugs go through testing to get FDA approval, that doesn't mean they are safe. Under certain circumstances, and having exhausted all of the other options - sure psychotropics have a place. For anyone else - welcome to the machine and you just sold yourself for cheap.


Good luck
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

Patsim has a point... whereby 'mental' is just another scapegoat, like firearm availability. (is that about right patsim?) The issue I take is that glosses over a reality that the phrase 'mental etc' attempts to convey. And that is that folks who can do evil easiest are the ones who often don't have the same functioning moral compass that 'normal' folk have and use. Example: Boy looks funny, acts funny, doesn't fit in. Boy gets teased by other boys, maybe physically picked on. Boy doesn't get positive attention from girls, etc etc, you get the idea. Many reading this now may have had experiences like this. If Boy has a 'mental health problem' (maybe one that impacts empathy), isn't it more possible that Boy will not have the impulse control to keep thoughts of revenge (sometimes put there by 'media') from becoming actions?

Anyway, just a thought. Sorry for all the (xxxxx).



MO is right on! But I want to make it clear, that he's speaking as a well adjusted person, who has seen good times and bad, and has the life experiences to know that shit happens, but it gets better when you work hard. There are (sadly) folks out there who do not and chemically cannot think/feel like that all the time. They have good days, they have bad days. Their bad days are like no bad day MO has ever (or will ever) see. The drug companies do market poison for money, but the emotional conditions that started them doing it, really do exist... just like evil.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

The point of my position is not that Evil causes crime. It's not about the existence of God. It's not about mental health issues, per se.

My original thought was precipitated by how many times I have heard those in the gun community (NRA, forum members, probably even myself at one time or another)say that the focus needs to be placed on Mental Health.

What do we do when the APA declares that PTSD, ADD, ODD, OCD, Depression, etc., should be construed as potentially dangerous conditions which whould disqualify one from gun ownership?

What is the standard now? I've checked the "No" box on the 4473, but can't recall the wording of the "mental" question.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patsim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point of my position is not that Evil causes crime. It's not about the existence of God. It's not about mental health issues, per se.

My original thought was precipitated by how many times I have heard those in the gun community (NRA, forum members, probably even myself at one time or another)say that the focus needs to be placed on Mental Health.

What do we do when the APA declares that PTSD, ADD, ODD, OCD, Depression, etc., should be construed as potentially dangerous conditions which whould disqualify one from gun ownership?

What is the standard now? I've checked the "No" box on the 4473, but can't recall the wording of the "mental" question. </div></div>

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

Evil is a privation of good, meaning lack of Good. Evil is not a thing per se, but a lack of said thing (good)-- in whatever capacity or quantity.

"That which constitutes the essence of every society, or that which unites the members in tending towards the end, is its form."- St. Maximilian Kolbe

If, then, we understand that the form is suffering from lack of good in society, we can thereby deduce that the essence of society is suffering from lack of good, or, evil.

In other words, society has devolved or decayed and it is missing something Good in its members or at least in that which unites its members to a level which can overcome that which it is thereby lacking.

This is truly no surprise, and we can see where the problem of mental health and the capitalization of evil (being a negative entity) on the weaknesses we see more prevalently comes into play.

If we were to look at society as a brain, and the members as brain cells, we could understand that lack of oxygen--being the good--would have an adverse effect in increasing quantities of that negative possession. Or to put it another way, the oxygen (good) which remains is increasingly unable to overcome the consequential effects of deprivation of itself. At first society seems a little dizzy, then it gets a little weird, then it suffers irreparable damage and gets stupid, eventually leading to societal death.

Individual cells might indeed die off randomly or atrophy or otherwise no longer contribute to the end as a whole. This is natural, in a sense, in the context of a fallen world.

The evil which we see, as concerns mental health, is more like cancer though. It is taking a thing which otherwise might in and of itself be fine (the cellular person, if you will), and metastasizing it in a way that it simply must be excised, irradiated, or otherwise dealt with before it can kill the whole organism.

What we prognosticate, based on historical trends re-presenting themselves in concept, which we will increasingly see in the coming months and years having already seen it, is certain: oligarchical cells will call everything cancer, while refusing to acknowledge the lack of oxygen. Those unthinking, oxygen-deprived brain cells will simply go along because they're no longer in possession of full good and cannot think properly.

A cold? Cancer. Allergies? Cancer. Broken arm? Cancer. Broken heart? Cancer. Cancer? Well that will just get lost in the shuffle of calling everything cancer. And what if the oligarchical cells themselves metastasize into cancer, as the MRI of sound philosophy, right moral thinking, logic, reasoning, and truth indicates is already happening? Well, we get a tumor of oppressive statism that disarms the body of its natural immune fighting abilities (firearms) and kills us all.

We must get oxygen (good) back into society STAT, and deal with individuals as individuals. Calling everything cancer and letting the lemming cells drive us all off the cliff into the fiery pit of modern-day Stalinism, with its oppressive statist philosophy tactic based on collective relativism working towards its false-objectivity of declaring lie as truth, and denial of truth as objective, is societal suicide. Induced or encouraged chaos throughout the spheres of subsidiarity, to become the only one with the claim of producing answers and enforcing a version of order, is satanic. This is what the modern State does.

This modality of "everyone has a truth and can disagree" can only lead to people seeking a defined thing as truth-- for they are rife with pain from the many arrows of lies flying off-course everywhere, and never, well, true. Human beings naturally move toward truth, or what they believe to be truth if in possession of any good or rational ability to process thought. This truth-giving becomes the job of the State per the wishes of the people (or at least the appearance as such per agitators and propaganda, combined in agitprop) as it will be the only entity with the power to do so in any enforceable context and any demonstrable authority to enforce its claims of power in reducing the chaos it actually started. This so-called truth, which is defined by the State, is not really truth but a lie. The real Truth is that there is only one objective, definable, knowable Truth. In the context of gun ownership and self-defense: it must be at the individual level first and foremost. Anything outside of that becomes not only increasingly tyrannical, but increasingly ineffective per the original claim of providing safety.

More so, due to the reality of the truth of oligarchical cells being thematic throughout history, and the only thing which can overcome something evil is its unequal opponent in greater quantity (good) to match that which the offending opponent lacks (negative possession, meaning evil), we cannot conceivably let ourselves or society be duped into thinking we, who have a right to self-defense and defense of others, including society at large, can be reduced to lacking the fully capable immune system of individual armories or otherwise the tools of immunity to evil in essence and cancer in practice. In other words, New York's new 7-round magazine limit is like telling a cancer victim, "here's your cast, and see the nurse for your 8 ounces of water."

Anything which doesn't meet the actual need versus the ability is absurd. Ultimately a lie told as truth for greater power of the State and the reduction of the individual, for a complete reversal of the proper distribution of the power for subsidiarity (meaning the ability of a societal sphere to actuate its own solutions to problems endemic to its level) to actually work, results in a top-heavy power structure in increasingly smaller matters previously reserved to the individual. In short, ineffectiveness results; individuals can no longer operate within their previous abilities, and society itself becomes inoperable in its mechanics.

This leads to decreased respect of the individual, leading to a privation of the common good through the micro/macro relationship of the individual and society, and through the natural inclination to subisidiarity leads to asking the State to fix the issues. This is the great lie of the Marxist claim, and reveals its diabolical nature. For once man counts solely on the State, and no longer sees himself as an individual of any capability who gets said capability from God, he no longer counts on God or himself; or, otherwise sees God as more ineffective than the State for which God was replaced. By historical example, the State becomes less effective and more tyrannical with increased power over the individual. This does not serve the common good or human dignity. It is institutionally evil, and is (negatively) sustained through persons of increased privation of good (evil). A reduction of God is a reduction of the source of all Good. Ergo, we have the root of the issue in society's negative possession, or, evil. The Statism we are seeing emerging in America is a result of individual and social rejection of God, and thus good. The closer we tend towards this evil, the ultimate end for such a society, the more our form resembles the end and we, as a society at least, become essentially evil. Thus, we lack a true society and in ourselves see an analogue of that which will eventually torment us in the State. At this juncture, I cannot see anything but the experience of this process pulling men of good will back towards the Good and through the evil which they 1) allowed 2) caused or 3) both. The achievement of health, socially and individually, is more painful the sicker one is when they start on the road to recovery. This present society must die. It is corporately cancerous. Whether or not a new, good society rises from it is ultimately up to God and man.

Instead of giving inadequate treatment to symptoms or completely inapplicable treatment to societal ills, as a thinking society, we should be telling the allergy sufferers, "here's your antihistamine, and if you ever have cancer you have access to the radiation therapy should you be able to afford it." In this sense, the standing military and police forces are nothing more than a health insurance plan to help out. Healthy living and a good immune system should negate the potential need for that as much. Though, realistically, illness happens and help can be needed. But the idea of living like an unhealthy ward-of-the-State moron for the sake of having a fail-safe all encompassing, individual harming, abortive/contraceptive, indeed, evil health insurance plan which can (and will) turn on you in your moment of need is, again, societal suicide... or at least cause for a running in the Darwin Award finals.

Calling a broken arm or heart, a cold, allergies, or anything other-than-cancer cancer, is the result of lack of oxygen. It is sheer evil. It is not true. It is lacking truth, which is good, and therefore evil.

And this is what society suffers from increasingly: evil.

So get some good and keep your guns. The cancer is coming.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

Thanks for the link.

Now just replace "adjudicated" with "declared", and read "other lawful authority" as being the newly established "County Mental Health Officer" (Disclaimer: I have not read all 2300 pages of the Obamacare Act, so i cannot say for certain that such a provision exists, but you get the point) and there you have it--the makings of de facto infringement without ever having an AWB or repeal of the 2A about which to get excited.
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

The simplest way to fight the anti gun people is not with the red herring mental issue. It is better debated with truth and the ability to recognize each and every one of their supporting premises as propaganda which makes it unsound and invalid, and calling them on it. This causes embarrassment to them and usually causes them to STFU beause each and every time they open their mouth with one more invalid premise, they get called on it over and over ad nauseum
 
Re: WARNING: We must WEAN ourselves from the "Mental".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3 things (and some ain't gonna like 'em)

A. Evil is real. And so as not to devolve this into a religious conversation, let's just say that an agnostic's 'inappropriate thought' is semantics for evil. Moreover, unless one is crazier than a shit house rat - they full on know right from wrong at the most basic level.

B. Hardnen the fuck up - the human experience IS hard, is full of sorrow, loss all the other negative shit that happens. Guess what? Everyone gets their fair share, and it has a purpose. Again, not here to talk religion.

<span style="color: #CC0000">C. Understand the role of psychotropics from the perspective of the drug companies - to make money. The more people they can convince that 'every day should be a great day' and you should never have get your fair share of the human experience is one more customer. Understand how little is know about mental illness compared to heart disease, understand that while the drugs go through testing to get FDA approval, that doesn't mean they are safe. Under certain circumstances, and having exhausted all of the other options - sure psychotropics have a place. For anyone else - welcome to the machine and you just sold yourself for cheap.</span>

Good luck </div></div>

Agree with everything Mo said, but words in red really perk up my radar. Anyone know what a Reaver is? From the movie "Serenity".
I have seen several instances in the forums this week where a well placed clip of "Miranda", would have been apropro.
We are drugging our kids into either passive gutless turds that just wanttolay down, or turning them into Reavers....literally.
 
Myself, I can understand the 'gist of the point that is attempted to be made. But as has been stated numerous times above, by numerous people, in numerous manners is this one drastically important point:

By what benchmark does who get to declare what is the differentiating degree of goodness?

My own thoughts towards this line of thought is comparable to certain lawmakers having the direction of "lets make things that are illegal even illegal'er." Like THAT is going to make a difference. There is so little "deterrence" in this society today, nor is there any degree of "initiative" or even "inspiration" that the whole (and I hesitate to use this word) MENTAL definition has been both bastardized and watered down. This is simply because "everybody wins", or all members of all teams get trophies, and nobody is held back a grade for not asserting themselves, and whatnot. One of my closest friends has a son who has made so many mistakes (BAD decisions) in life that he has a long record and bad reputation among all. And this phases him in no way whatsoever. The fact that his father is a police-officer is irrelevant as well, simply because his view is "I am the only one/thing that matters, and nothing else does."

This kid's work ethic is beyond anything I've ever seen. When I was his age (25 years ago) not only would I be fired for the way he attempts to carry on, but would probably get my ass kicked by co-workers simply due to dis-respect and laziness. Again, back to the "mental" evaluation question?

Part of me thinks that this whole train of discussion should be more focused on a different line of logic. Might be one which would make both sides of the argument see things a bit deeper.

As far as I can see, the enjoyment of a high-end bourbon or scotch or whatever is enjoyed by both Republicrats and Democans at the end of a good day's work. (the ones old enough to appreciate that libation are old enough to know what a good day's work actually is) The point of this statement is, though, is how about we all get on the bandwagon to ban all alcohol? Bring back Prohibition!

This way, we would be eliminating all the drunk drivers. And we all know that driving drunk is a bad thing, and one could even be considered 'mental' for doing so, but that even though it is already illegal to do so, people STILL do it every day. So lets make it "illegal'er."

Nobody can drink anymore, so that the 'bad/evil' people can't get their drunken hands on the wheel anymore?

How's that line of thought?
?
?
?
?
?

Now I realize that historically the whole concept of prohibition is a failed one. I also realize that even the discussion of such is going to raise ire and vehemence and even passion. Especially by those who actually know a thing or two about history. I actually do pray for, and have faith in, the fact that both sides of the 2A issue have some historical knowledge AND logical reason regarding this issue.

So change the direction of discussion to one which BOTH sides can be essentially on the same topic. I'm not saying that there still won't be those with their heads in the sand. But I am saying that I think there would be less of them.

Let's call it like it is, and talk about factual existence not to mention past-precedence. Otherwise, we're all fighting amongst each other, and getting no-where.

This is all based on the view that everyones perspective of 'evil' is hemispherically different from others, to which everyones view of 'utopia' contrasts as well.
 
Evil is a privation of good, meaning lack of Good. Evil is not a thing per se, but a lack of said thing (good)-- in whatever capacity or quantity.

"That which constitutes the essence of every society, or that which unites the members in tending towards the end, is its form."- St. Maximilian Kolbe

If, then, we understand that the form is suffering from lack of good in society, we can thereby deduce that the essence of society is suffering from lack of good, or, evil.

In other words, society has devolved or decayed and it is missing something Good in its members or at least in that which unites its members to a level which can overcome that which it is thereby lacking.

This is truly no surprise, and we can see where the problem of mental health and the capitalization of evil (being a negative entity) on the weaknesses we see more prevalently comes into play.

If we were to look at society as a brain, and the members as brain cells, we could understand that lack of oxygen--being the good--would have an adverse effect in increasing quantities of that negative possession. Or to put it another way, the oxygen (good) which remains is increasingly unable to overcome the consequential effects of deprivation of itself. At first society seems a little dizzy, then it gets a little weird, then it suffers irreparable damage and gets stupid, eventually leading to societal death.

Individual cells might indeed die off randomly or atrophy or otherwise no longer contribute to the end as a whole. This is natural, in a sense, in the context of a fallen world.

The evil which we see, as concerns mental health, is more like cancer though. It is taking a thing which otherwise might in and of itself be fine (the cellular person, if you will), and metastasizing it in a way that it simply must be excised, irradiated, or otherwise dealt with before it can kill the whole organism.

What we prognosticate, based on historical trends re-presenting themselves in concept, which we will increasingly see in the coming months and years having already seen it, is certain: oligarchical cells will call everything cancer, while refusing to acknowledge the lack of oxygen. Those unthinking, oxygen-deprived brain cells will simply go along because they're no longer in possession of full good and cannot think properly.

A cold? Cancer. Allergies? Cancer. Broken arm? Cancer. Broken heart? Cancer. Cancer? Well that will just get lost in the shuffle of calling everything cancer. And what if the oligarchical cells themselves metastasize into cancer, as the MRI of sound philosophy, right moral thinking, logic, reasoning, and truth indicates is already happening? Well, we get a tumor of oppressive statism that disarms the body of its natural immune fighting abilities (firearms) and kills us all.

We must get oxygen (good) back into society STAT, and deal with individuals as individuals. Calling everything cancer and letting the lemming cells drive us all off the cliff into the fiery pit of modern-day Stalinism, with its oppressive statist philosophy tactic based on collective relativism working towards its false-objectivity of declaring lie as truth, and denial of truth as objective, is societal suicide. Induced or encouraged chaos throughout the spheres of subsidiarity, to become the only one with the claim of producing answers and enforcing a version of order, is satanic. This is what the modern State does.

This modality of "everyone has a truth and can disagree" can only lead to people seeking a defined thing as truth-- for they are rife with pain from the many arrows of lies flying off-course everywhere, and never, well, true. Human beings naturally move toward truth, or what they believe to be truth if in possession of any good or rational ability to process thought. This truth-giving becomes the job of the State per the wishes of the people (or at least the appearance as such per agitators and propaganda, combined in agitprop) as it will be the only entity with the power to do so in any enforceable context and any demonstrable authority to enforce its claims of power in reducing the chaos it actually started. This so-called truth, which is defined by the State, is not really truth but a lie. The real Truth is that there is only one objective, definable, knowable Truth. In the context of gun ownership and self-defense: it must be at the individual level first and foremost. Anything outside of that becomes not only increasingly tyrannical, but increasingly ineffective per the original claim of providing safety.

More so, due to the reality of the truth of oligarchical cells being thematic throughout history, and the only thing which can overcome something evil is its unequal opponent in greater quantity (good) to match that which the offending opponent lacks (negative possession, meaning evil), we cannot conceivably let ourselves or society be duped into thinking we, who have a right to self-defense and defense of others, including society at large, can be reduced to lacking the fully capable immune system of individual armories or otherwise the tools of immunity to evil in essence and cancer in practice. In other words, New York's new 7-round magazine limit is like telling a cancer victim, "here's your cast, and see the nurse for your 8 ounces of water."

Anything which doesn't meet the actual need versus the ability is absurd. Ultimately a lie told as truth for greater power of the State and the reduction of the individual, for a complete reversal of the proper distribution of the power for subsidiarity (meaning the ability of a societal sphere to actuate its own solutions to problems endemic to its level) to actually work, results in a top-heavy power structure in increasingly smaller matters previously reserved to the individual. In short, ineffectiveness results; individuals can no longer operate within their previous abilities, and society itself becomes inoperable in its mechanics.

This leads to decreased respect of the individual, leading to a privation of the common good through the micro/macro relationship of the individual and society, and through the natural inclination to subisidiarity leads to asking the State to fix the issues. This is the great lie of the Marxist claim, and reveals its diabolical nature. For once man counts solely on the State, and no longer sees himself as an individual of any capability who gets said capability from God, he no longer counts on God or himself; or, otherwise sees God as more ineffective than the State for which God was replaced. By historical example, the State becomes less effective and more tyrannical with increased power over the individual. This does not serve the common good or human dignity. It is institutionally evil, and is (negatively) sustained through persons of increased privation of good (evil). A reduction of God is a reduction of the source of all Good. Ergo, we have the root of the issue in society's negative possession, or, evil. The Statism we are seeing emerging in America is a result of individual and social rejection of God, and thus good. The closer we tend towards this evil, the ultimate end for such a society, the more our form resembles the end and we, as a society at least, become essentially evil. Thus, we lack a true society and in ourselves see an analogue of that which will eventually torment us in the State. At this juncture, I cannot see anything but the experience of this process pulling men of good will back towards the Good and through the evil which they 1) allowed 2) caused or 3) both. The achievement of health, socially and individually, is more painful the sicker one is when they start on the road to recovery. This present society must die. It is corporately cancerous. Whether or not a new, good society rises from it is ultimately up to God and man.

Instead of giving inadequate treatment to symptoms or completely inapplicable treatment to societal ills, as a thinking society, we should be telling the allergy sufferers, "here's your antihistamine, and if you ever have cancer you have access to the radiation therapy should you be able to afford it." In this sense, the standing military and police forces are nothing more than a health insurance plan to help out. Healthy living and a good immune system should negate the potential need for that as much. Though, realistically, illness happens and help can be needed. But the idea of living like an unhealthy ward-of-the-State moron for the sake of having a fail-safe all encompassing, individual harming, abortive/contraceptive, indeed, evil health insurance plan which can (and will) turn on you in your moment of need is, again, societal suicide... or at least cause for a running in the Darwin Award finals.

Calling a broken arm or heart, a cold, allergies, or anything other-than-cancer cancer, is the result of lack of oxygen. It is sheer evil. It is not true. It is lacking truth, which is good, and therefore evil.

And this is what society suffers from increasingly: evil.

So get some good and keep your guns. The cancer is coming.

I had a response typed out, and realized that it was largely a "me too" statement. If you can work through the allegory, this is spot on. Huzzah.

I wish I knew how to turn this ship around. It would seem that in our haste to increase our connectivity and inclusiveness, we've become little more than a bickering, selfish, distant, ineffective species....
 
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3 things (and some ain't gonna like 'em)

A. Evil is real. And so as not to devolve this into a religious conversation, let's just say that an agnostic's 'inappropriate thought' is semantics for evil. Moreover, unless one is crazier than a shit house rat - they full on know right from wrong at the most basic level.

B. Hardnen the fuck up - the human experience IS hard, is full of sorrow, loss all the other negative shit that happens. Guess what? Everyone gets their fair share, and it has a purpose. Again, not here to talk religion.

C. Understand the role of psychotropics from the perspective of the drug companies - to make money. The more people they can convince that 'every day should be a great day' and you should never have get your fair share of the human experience is one more customer. Understand how little is know about mental illness compared to heart disease, understand that while the drugs go through testing to get FDA approval, that doesn't mean they are safe. Under certain circumstances, and having exhausted all of the other options - sure psychotropics have a place. For anyone else - welcome to the machine and you just sold yourself for cheap.
Good luck

Spot on. Good post MZB. Moral relativism is how men justify the things they want to do even though they know they are wrong. This idea has been used as the lynchpin premise of every totalitarian philosophy to ever plague mankind. Moral relativism is how tyranny disguises itself, and how the coward lets himself of the hook for his crimes.

The greatest hypocrisy surrounding this whole mass shooter/gun control debate is that government focuses on what was in the murderer's hands instead of what was in their heads...pyschotropic drugs, the real weapons of mass destruction in this country. Every single one of these mass shooters was on these drugs. They are the one thing every single mass murderer in recent history have had in common. Why aren't they being demonized instead of the inanimate tool that was used? The answer is that big pharma is worth hundreds of billions of dollars...and they know all the phone numbers in DC. That makes us gun owners the obvious scapegoat.
 
Great read Thank you. Before i Retired i Ran the Pediactric Clinic on basei was floored by the amount of kids on every kind of meds for Behavior problems because the school or teacher talked the parents into them.When alot of us were growing up we played hard we had an Imaginaiton that is all being taken away from kids. I see it in my Gran kids any child that dont fit into the So called box they Scream for medication to subdue them. These are scary times.
 
Trying to blame Big Pharm for some a**hole shooting up a bunch of civilians is the same logic the liberals in Colorado were trying to push with the bill that would hold gun manufacturers liable for gun-shot wounds. Even the majority of the senate idiots on the left knew this logic didn't hold water.

Remember that these nut-jobs that killed people while on anti-psychotics were on these drugs for a reason. Yep, some smart guy said, "you're F-ing crazy...you need some medicine." They had problems BEFORE the drugs. I'd argue we'd see a helluva lot more violence in this country if it weren't for some of these meds.

Now are kids over medicated? Probably so. Is it a reflection of an MD doing the only thing he can? or is it a reflection of our jacked up modern society? Dunno, that's an unanswerable issue right now.


You damned straight there is evil in the world. Call it negative energy if you want to.
Stealing a loaf of bread after the SHTF? Sorry, I'd naturally tend to think that if bread is so hard to come by that folks are starving...maybe you shouldn't be stealing it from the person that earned it. But...maybe you'd feel entitled to it.
 
I love the philosophical debate here, but what has been worrying me is the notion of turning over our Rights to the judgement of unelected folks like the AMA and APA.

Yes, when we are vesting these groups with the authority to determine who is "fit" to exercise their Rights, we are giving them up. And now, even those who, ostensibly, support the Second Amendment are advocating just that. I think the NRA may even be onboard with Graham's nonsense.
 
the only way to work with the "Mental" issue is to repair society...how do you do that?
 
The mental issue is one based upon the rationality of one who has what we will call normal thoughts and behaviors. It is in fact, not a mental issue, but a step away from proper adjustment, maladjustment if you will. The rationality of committing a crime is based on a few things. The individual has a desire. This desire becomes a need based on,"I WANT IT/IT TO HAPPEN!" The individual then looks internally for rational self reasoning why it should or should not happen. At this point, maladjustment in self becomes part of that individual's thought process. The individual plays the scenario only to the most exciting part and stops there. The rationality of maladjustment does not need to go further and play out the scenario to it's end. The individual, knowing right from wrong, then becomes fully involved in the fantasy of making the scenario happen, although, not ever fully understanding anything beyond, or comprehending, anything beyond the most exciting part of the scenario. Right and wrong have been rationalized away to only right. This is not a mental issue. It is a willfull, thought out but not thought through, desire to obtain, gain gratification in one manner or the other, or exploit a situation to realize the fantasy to the point of it's expected excitement.
This is what drives the individual to move from a regular person, to a criminal, and to pursue the criminal path. The desire will drive the individual to get more, have more, and live the fantasy until it is stopped. Once the realization comes to mind that the fantasy is no longer valid, and there is more to be found with it's ending, it is at this point the individual either self destructs, or becomes so confused in self that more violence is the only maladjusted rational thought they have. The individual self rationalizes away truth, fact, and reality, and this is where many come to the conclusion that it is a mental problem or issue.
 
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Mental illness exists, but it is not to blame for everything. Criminals- murders, child molesters, rapist etc. have learned that they can blame their mistakes on "being crazy", temporary insanity. So for many, it is an excuse to act in whatever irrational manner one wishes.

Many in society refuse to believe a person in their right mind would be willing to commit atrocity, so allowing a mental illness to be the scape goat helps them to accept it.

Funny how when bad guys use a gun to kill people, they have mental problems, yet no one makes that claim about the 9-11 hijackers.

I worry about increased mental health regulations, awareness, identification. I can't trust the government not to use it against us.