I've seen references to lapping (thus a kit) to avoid marring and deforming tubes and I know one needs a torque driver to get torque right to avoid deforming a tube as well, but what else would one recommend, like a boresight? I don't mind investing a couple hundred or so to get some decent equipment from Brownell's to do it right and repeatably. I assume a Tipton gun vise is good enough to hold a rifle for mounting? Any good brands to consider, like Brownell's house brand stuff?
- Thread starter OH_FAL
- Start date
Borka torque wrench set, good rings will eliminate need for lapping imo, blue lock tight, degreaser, wheeler bore sight laser if need be, perhaps a leveling device of some sort to level reticle with the earth.
Buy quality rings and you can skip the lapping entirely. I like using a level that I can reference to the action, and then a level for the scope so I can compare the two. I believe Wheeler makes the set I use. Torque wrench is highly recommended. I also use a laser boresight to help conserve ammo during zeroing, but you can usually skip the laser by just removing the bolt and looking through the barrel. That should keep you well under $100
Don't worry about lapping or bore sighting, buy quality rings and bases like Seekins, Badger, APA, etc, along with a Borja torque wrench set and your good. If you want it perfectly level, get a rail mounted level, attach it, level the rifle, and while it's leveled, look through your scope at a plumb line, and line it up with the y axis on your reticle. Torque the scope down and call it good.
Sight in quickly at 25 or 50 yards in case your scope is way off. Then sight in at 100. That's what I'd do anyway...
Sight in quickly at 25 or 50 yards in case your scope is way off. Then sight in at 100. That's what I'd do anyway...
Arisaka scope leveling wedge is BY FAR the best investment I've made for mounting scopes.
http://www.borkatools.com/
And a new deck of playing cards.
They can be used as shims to level to scope off of the rail
And a new deck of playing cards.
They can be used as shims to level to scope off of the rail
Occasionally you can find a Seekonk torque wrench on eBay pretty cheap. The TSQ-150 I bought has a good torque range but it's 3/8" drive so a bit difficult to find small hex and torx drivers in 3/8" drive.
I was able to find a 3/8" drive to 1/4" hex drive adapter so I can use standard screwdriver bits. I found it at McMaster Carr. They have about three flavors, two of them cheap and an expensive magnetic adapter. I tried both of the cheap adapters. The spring loaded one grabs the bit so tight I couldn't get it back out by hand. The threaded adjustable type seems to give decent retention and finger removable, tighter if you want to lock the bit in more or looser if you want that for some reason.
I was able to find Craftsman hex and torx sets with 3/8" drive for the bigger sizes. They are Chinese these days I think but they should last forever at inch-pounds. For smaller stuff I'm going to try to get high quality screwdriver style bit for use in the adapter.
Seekonk will calibrate one of their wrenches for a reasonable fee if you are concerned with accuracy.
If you want to align your rings with lapping, an even better method is using a ring reamer. It's a double ended spiral reamer with opposite twists so it doesn't want to thread out of your rings instead of cut them. They work fast, no abrasives, just expensive because it's a big fancy reamer.
Get a nice level to draw vertical lines on a target to level the reticle rather than the scope.
If you don't hold the rifle level when shooting, there is no reason to level the action when you are leveling the scope.
I was able to find a 3/8" drive to 1/4" hex drive adapter so I can use standard screwdriver bits. I found it at McMaster Carr. They have about three flavors, two of them cheap and an expensive magnetic adapter. I tried both of the cheap adapters. The spring loaded one grabs the bit so tight I couldn't get it back out by hand. The threaded adjustable type seems to give decent retention and finger removable, tighter if you want to lock the bit in more or looser if you want that for some reason.
I was able to find Craftsman hex and torx sets with 3/8" drive for the bigger sizes. They are Chinese these days I think but they should last forever at inch-pounds. For smaller stuff I'm going to try to get high quality screwdriver style bit for use in the adapter.
Seekonk will calibrate one of their wrenches for a reasonable fee if you are concerned with accuracy.
If you want to align your rings with lapping, an even better method is using a ring reamer. It's a double ended spiral reamer with opposite twists so it doesn't want to thread out of your rings instead of cut them. They work fast, no abrasives, just expensive because it's a big fancy reamer.
Get a nice level to draw vertical lines on a target to level the reticle rather than the scope.
If you don't hold the rifle level when shooting, there is no reason to level the action when you are leveling the scope.
Borka ATD-SBKs are out of stock, and ETA is not certain. Also, we do not ship PTLS to Brownells any more, we like to sell all of them by ourselves. That is why these items are "discontinued" at Brownells.
Here's the oddball method I use:
I use a torque screw driver, weighted string, vice, flash light, and a small magnetic level.
I put the rifle in the vice and get the rings attached to the rifle receiver per torque specs. I use loc-tite although I know some say it's not necessary. Then I put the magnification all the way to the max and set the eye relief. Once I get the fore/aft set right I get the scope leveled.
I have a weighted string hanging from the ceiling at one end of my bench. I dim the lights and shine a flashlight through the scope from the muzzle end and it projects the crosshairs onto the wall out past the butt stock.
I also have a very small magnetic level that I put on the rifle receiver. With the small level showing the rifle is correct I twist the scope until the crosshairs projected on the wall are straight up & down with the weighted string--all while making sure the rifle itself is still level. After everything is aligned right I torque everything properly and repeat the weighted string test to double check.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but in theory that should give me a perfectly leveled scope. It's worked out pretty well in practice thus far.
I've also got a collection of the bullet shaped laser bore sights that get me decently close, not as close as a good bore sight though. I haven't had to do any lapping as I mostly shoot gas guns and I make a point to buy 1 piece mounts.
I use a torque screw driver, weighted string, vice, flash light, and a small magnetic level.
I put the rifle in the vice and get the rings attached to the rifle receiver per torque specs. I use loc-tite although I know some say it's not necessary. Then I put the magnification all the way to the max and set the eye relief. Once I get the fore/aft set right I get the scope leveled.
I have a weighted string hanging from the ceiling at one end of my bench. I dim the lights and shine a flashlight through the scope from the muzzle end and it projects the crosshairs onto the wall out past the butt stock.
I also have a very small magnetic level that I put on the rifle receiver. With the small level showing the rifle is correct I twist the scope until the crosshairs projected on the wall are straight up & down with the weighted string--all while making sure the rifle itself is still level. After everything is aligned right I torque everything properly and repeat the weighted string test to double check.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but in theory that should give me a perfectly leveled scope. It's worked out pretty well in practice thus far.
I've also got a collection of the bullet shaped laser bore sights that get me decently close, not as close as a good bore sight though. I haven't had to do any lapping as I mostly shoot gas guns and I make a point to buy 1 piece mounts.
Get yourself a good heavy ground bar or straightedge to make sure your base(s) are flat and in the same plane. I most often use an old Starret planer setup gauge. I can run it across the top of a mounted rail and see if it’s flat, straight, twisted, etc.
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I got this as well and has made it extremely easy.
This is my favorite tool. May have mounted a thousand scopes with it:
https://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith...OqxeBblf6fy6JG7S9Co2XasyF22ozuFRoC8EcQAvD_BwE
https://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith...OqxeBblf6fy6JG7S9Co2XasyF22ozuFRoC8EcQAvD_BwE
I might have to try that one tsu45
Do yourself a favor and don't buy anything with a bubble level.....ANYTHING!!!
The whole method of mounting with a plumb line, bubble levels, vises....is long, tedious, inaccurate and fraught with steps that introduce error. I'd rather slit my wrists open than mount another scope using plumb lines and bubble levels.
Wheeler FAT Torque Wrench....may need additional bits.
Arisaka Scope Leveler.
Feeler Gagues in case above tool does not have proper clearance to work properly.
Quality Rings....no lapping needed.
The Arisaka Tool works like the Spuhr without shelling out $400. Feeler Gagues are a great alternative.
Using the Arisaka, I can mount a scope in under 5 min and look through it and have confidence that it is perfect. Feeler Gagues take 10 min.
The whole method of mounting with a plumb line, bubble levels, vises....is long, tedious, inaccurate and fraught with steps that introduce error. I'd rather slit my wrists open than mount another scope using plumb lines and bubble levels.
Wheeler FAT Torque Wrench....may need additional bits.
Arisaka Scope Leveler.
Feeler Gagues in case above tool does not have proper clearance to work properly.
Quality Rings....no lapping needed.
The Arisaka Tool works like the Spuhr without shelling out $400. Feeler Gagues are a great alternative.
Using the Arisaka, I can mount a scope in under 5 min and look through it and have confidence that it is perfect. Feeler Gagues take 10 min.
I have to admit I've been wanting to try the Arisaka as well. Somehow I've become "the guy" for mounting all of my friends' optics and I hate the ones that take forever but don't want to do a bad job of it either.
This is what I do. I mount anywhere from 1-3 scopes a week, and this is the best way I have found. The Arisaka is awesome, though I do prefer my Borka tools to the wheeler...
Spuhr mounts and a Borka tool kit. Keep it simple.
I have an Arisaka leveler but it never seems to work perfectly for me. I'm always just a little bit off when I verify by plumb.
could be that reticle itself has a slight cant
Get a good piece of string and tie one end to a rock, that and a screw driver are all you really need to mount a scope. Hang the other end of the string up at 100 yards. Shoulder your rifle so that its naturally comfortable and align the scopes crosshairs with the string thats hanging true to gravity. Tighten up the screws with this fat wrench on sale
I don't think that's it. I've done it on about 4-5 different scopes now. It's always ever so slightly canted to the left. I can't tell if I'm doing it wrong or if the unit itself is faulty. It isn't exactly a complicated process so I don't know how I'd really mess it up.
I’d add that you don’t even need the bubble level aspect of this tool. The bar sets on the scope base and you line up the horizontal portion of the reticle with the lines on the tool’s ears.
Deck of cards (use like feeler gauges) under the scope to get it level to base. But MUCH more important is that the level on your scope (which most consider essential) needs to be level to the reticle. Easiest way to do that is simply hang a plumb line and level your riflescope bubble level with vertical crosshair on line with plumb line.
So essential tools are torque wrench, riflescope bubble level and some string.
So essential tools are torque wrench, riflescope bubble level and some string.
Have the Arisaka saved on my Amazon cart now.
what part of the process are you wanting a video of OH_FAL?
As much as I can get, but leveling sounds like it might be the most difficult to fathom without being able to see it being done - especially how to reference the plumb bob and where/how I should attach it if I use one at all.
With all due respect, that is possibly the worst advice I have every seen on this forum. A level on your scope is absolutely necessary when shooting at any significant distance. And the level needs to be leveled to your reticle (not absolutely necessary to have scope turrets or base level to rifle) as per Frank's video below.
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Arisaka only works if there is enough clearance between the scope and rail. It will most likely NOT work if mounting a "largish" scope inside a one piece mount. E.G: It didn't work for me with S&B 3-20 US inside Geissele mount.
Worst Advice???.....no doubt you have never tried using Feeler gauges, the Arisaka Tool, or a Spuhr. I'm not saying the old plumb line, multiple bubble levels won't work.....just that that method is outdated and more error prone than it needs to be. I've done it that way and I always looked through the finished product and though.....fuck, that's not right. Those days are over now......I don't miss the headache and wasting of time.
These 3 video's and not a bubble level to be seen......watch a Spuhr video and you will see hide nor hair of a bubble level either.
Sorry, your way is inefficient and outdated.
EDIT: Bubble level as an anti cant device is fine.....I was speaking about mounting only.
These 3 video's and not a bubble level to be seen......watch a Spuhr video and you will see hide nor hair of a bubble level either.
Sorry, your way is inefficient and outdated.
EDIT: Bubble level as an anti cant device is fine.....I was speaking about mounting only.
Andy, I agree......Feeler gauges are the back up plan if the Arisaka clearance is an issue. Still way more accurate and time saving than plumb lines/bubble levels.
I use the playing cards between the scope bottom method
Plumb line
Bubble level on the guns rail
Bubble level mounted on the scope
True bubble level on scope to plumb line first, then tighten scope level to scope
Then true bubble level on scope to one on gun rail ( doesn’t have to be mounted, Walmart sells them for four dollars for two small ones)
Then tighten the scope to rings
Use a torque wrench of some kind to ring or scope manufacture specs
Wheeler fat wrench is acceptable but not that precise
Fix it sticks are good but not adjustable
Borja is pricey but excellent
If you’re on a budget, start with wheeler fat wrench adjustable
Check reticle to plumbob
Move scope fore and aft to match your eye relief to 15-20x
test fore
Plumb line
Bubble level on the guns rail
Bubble level mounted on the scope
True bubble level on scope to plumb line first, then tighten scope level to scope
Then true bubble level on scope to one on gun rail ( doesn’t have to be mounted, Walmart sells them for four dollars for two small ones)
Then tighten the scope to rings
Use a torque wrench of some kind to ring or scope manufacture specs
Wheeler fat wrench is acceptable but not that precise
Fix it sticks are good but not adjustable
Borja is pricey but excellent
If you’re on a budget, start with wheeler fat wrench adjustable
Check reticle to plumbob
Move scope fore and aft to match your eye relief to 15-20x
test fore
It doesnt matter how true to gravity your reticle is if you arent comfortable behind the gun while you are doing it.
Yes, this and a set of fix it sticks!!!
I forget who makes it but I have one that has a level that mounts on the barrel and one that goes on the scope. The levels are adjustable. It does a pretty good job, pretty sure Brownells sells it.
Love the arisaka concept except the lower turret deal on my scope ain't flat.
I'm stuck with levels and plumb bobs.
VooDoo
I'm stuck with levels and plumb bobs.
VooDoo
You should definitely give feeler gauges a try......quick and easy. They are cheap.....the serious tightwads use a deck of playing cards
Works too.
Unless you are Mr One mile shot a couple tiny levels, torque wrench is good enough to mount.
I'm a fan of sighting in on a structure off in the distance, like an empty barn, and using the roofline as a reference to level the reticle.
I'm a fan of sighting in on a structure off in the distance, like an empty barn, and using the roofline as a reference to level the reticle.
Many people have said to mount the scope where it is level when the rifle is in a comfortable position (i.e. not level). This is a bad practice.
When you mount a scope, the verticle travel and verticle post of the reticle should be on the same plane as your barrel. If it were possible to dial far enough, a properly aligned scope would eventually point at the dead center of the barrel.
If the scope is mounted level on an unlevel rifle, when you sight it in you have to adjust the windage to make the scope's plane intersect with the barrel and bullet's. When you change ranges, you will have to change windage to make the planes intersect at that range rather than your sight-in range.
If you start with a level rifle and a level scope, your windage will not change with range, beyond accounting for outside forces.
In summary, leveling a scope to a rifle makes their verticle planes coincide rather than intersect.
When you mount a scope, the verticle travel and verticle post of the reticle should be on the same plane as your barrel. If it were possible to dial far enough, a properly aligned scope would eventually point at the dead center of the barrel.
If the scope is mounted level on an unlevel rifle, when you sight it in you have to adjust the windage to make the scope's plane intersect with the barrel and bullet's. When you change ranges, you will have to change windage to make the planes intersect at that range rather than your sight-in range.
If you start with a level rifle and a level scope, your windage will not change with range, beyond accounting for outside forces.
In summary, leveling a scope to a rifle makes their verticle planes coincide rather than intersect.
Yeah, but when you torque the rifle unnaturally because youre not comfortable its way worse that the tiny built in error.
https://www.snipershide.com/training-lesson-mechanics-rifle-cant/
If you're a serial Canter, I'd suggest that you buy a stock/chassis that allows you to adjust for the right ergonomic needs without canting the action/scope.
Poor fit is a poor excuse given today's highly adjustable options.
Poor fit is a poor excuse given today's highly adjustable options.
I’ve been using a Badger Ordnance Dead Level tool for a while and it’s the best/least frustrating method I’ve found. It’s designed for use with picatinny rings though so it doesn’t work for all mounting applications.
When the error induced by leveling the scope to the horizon and not to the rifle is so damned small, your expensive suggestion to satisfy dogma makes no sense.
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