My 18 inch FN CHF Wylde chambered 1 in 8 inch twist AR15 shoots like a laser out to 300yds with my buddy's large scope. What is the most appropriate size scope for it?
- Thread starter charliebrown1999
- Start date
Depends on use. I like a 1-8 for 3 gun competition out to 600, a 4-16 or 3-18 or 2.5-20 for long range out to 1000+. For a defensive rifle I just use a red dot for stuff out to 500.
Yep-have ATACR 4-16x42 on my 18" that shoots lasers and it's perfect.
Budget? Intended use?
For versatility I really like the Nightforce NXS 1-8. Rugged, good optics, fairly light, like the reticle and with my eyes good for CQB and out to at least 500 yards if shooting steel (younger guys could stretch it out even further). But then mine is on a LaRue with a 12.5" barrel that I shoot primarily between 50 and 400 yards, and it's a pricey option that might exceed your budget. Lots of good 1-6 scopes that would also work, most of which will be cheaper.
If you want something out to 1000 yards or to shoot small groups on paper at distances in excess of 2-300 yards and don't care as much about weight/CQB shooting you're going to want something with more magnification, and recommendations are going to depend on your budget. If you've got $500 to spend you're obviously going to get different recommendations than if you have $1000 to spend. Or $2000. Or $3000.
For versatility I really like the Nightforce NXS 1-8. Rugged, good optics, fairly light, like the reticle and with my eyes good for CQB and out to at least 500 yards if shooting steel (younger guys could stretch it out even further). But then mine is on a LaRue with a 12.5" barrel that I shoot primarily between 50 and 400 yards, and it's a pricey option that might exceed your budget. Lots of good 1-6 scopes that would also work, most of which will be cheaper.
If you want something out to 1000 yards or to shoot small groups on paper at distances in excess of 2-300 yards and don't care as much about weight/CQB shooting you're going to want something with more magnification, and recommendations are going to depend on your budget. If you've got $500 to spend you're obviously going to get different recommendations than if you have $1000 to spend. Or $2000. Or $3000.
For "minute of man", 1-8x will serve you well. I have a Shepherd Rugged 1-8x with 5.56/223 bdc reticle on my defensive carbine. For more precision, "minute of ground hogs ", you'll probably want decent magnification. On my 20" AR I take groundhog hunting, I put a Nikon M223 bdc600 3-12x44mm scope on. Great for hitting football size "targets " out to 600 yds.
CMP competition is 1-4.5x, most companies make a 1-6 or 1-8x. I don't think I'd pick anything that didn't go down to 1x even though I don't use it often. If CMP didn't limit to 4.5 I'd probably go 1-8x. I know out to 600 you don't need to add elevation.
NXS 2.5-10 x whatever. I like the 24 personally but the x42 is very nice as well. Money no object ATACR 1-8 with FC-DMx reticle or the first plus a red dot. More mag but more chunk would be the 4-16 ATACR or Mk5 3.6-18.
thank you. my eyes will be 80 years old in 3 weeks. i had droopy eyelid surgery last November which was covered by Medicare. I probably need the biggest scope i can find.
I wish i had your eyes. I was shooting my pc9 today with a red dot at 100yd and i could hardly see the 12 inch target. I will be 80 in 3 weeks which probably explains a lot.
you have the eyes of a eagle. At 300yds I can barely hit a 7 inch steel target at 12X. I think i sell everything and watch tv.
i think your Nightforce cost twice as much as my AR15.
It really depends on how you want to run the AR.
30mm
That’s ok man, I’m 42 and I probably could not hit a 500yd with a red dot.
I am 72+ and use and love a Burris RT-6. 1X-6X.
Bought it at a nice price to me and service is"local" to me. 80 miles. All I use is Burris from my 2nd. scope on, loyal customer, currently have 2 XTR II ,1 4x20 and 1 5X25 on 6.5 Creedmoor and 4X on 6.5/06.
I like them,not the best but not the worst and I can afford them. Next will be a XTR III.
How often would you shoot it? or anything else?
I usually go 3-5 days a week, weather permitting, but usually shoot long as our range goes/1012-1017 yds. in to 600.
I do like to shoot my AR-A2 some too-- out to 600 at the short range.
My rifle has the tall front sight/gas port assy. and I can see it low in the bottom of the scope but it doesn't bother, shoots great and not too big nor heavy.
I would recommend not getting the red dot combo, just the scope, but you can remove and use the red dot on something else if you get a good buy on the combo package. That is what I did. The price was right for 2 sights.
Bought it at a nice price to me and service is"local" to me. 80 miles. All I use is Burris from my 2nd. scope on, loyal customer, currently have 2 XTR II ,1 4x20 and 1 5X25 on 6.5 Creedmoor and 4X on 6.5/06.
I like them,not the best but not the worst and I can afford them. Next will be a XTR III.
How often would you shoot it? or anything else?
I usually go 3-5 days a week, weather permitting, but usually shoot long as our range goes/1012-1017 yds. in to 600.
I do like to shoot my AR-A2 some too-- out to 600 at the short range.
My rifle has the tall front sight/gas port assy. and I can see it low in the bottom of the scope but it doesn't bother, shoots great and not too big nor heavy.
I would recommend not getting the red dot combo, just the scope, but you can remove and use the red dot on something else if you get a good buy on the combo package. That is what I did. The price was right for 2 sights.
I would prefer a First Focal Plane 4-16 at the least then. I tend to try and find a reticle with the center cross hairs "blank" so I don't cover the target / point of aim. ( Not a deal breaker... it just seems like a good idea. )
And personally, I like the busy reticles, so I can "Kentucky Windage" with those more repeatedly / consistently without adjusting the turrets all the time.
And bear in mind modern scopes just keep getting bigger... and I prefer illuminated.. why not have it if you can.
That said... even the less expensive scopes are pretty darned good nowadays... use a solid mount and they can be quite good and consistent.
My AR's are more oriented towards precision. Not a "combat" mode. I like the more powerful scopes for my AR's when shooting for precision.
I have 4-16ish ones and 6-24ish ones ... I have moved towards all of them being FFP.
I have a few different ones like that.
Very inexpensive , not as refined... but cheap and suitable. If you zoom in on the crosshairs pic, this has the "blank" spot in the crosshairs )
https://www.primaryarms.com/vortex-...k-tactical-ffp-rifle-scope-ebr-2c-moa-reticlefaction
More magnification... ( 5-25 )... A little Google'ing might find a better price
https://www.primaryarms.com/vortex-optics-viper-pst-gen-ii-5-25x50-ffp-ebr-7c-moa-riflescope_3
3-18... reasonable price
https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-3-18x50mm-illuminated-ffp-rifle-scope-with-athena-bpr-mil-reticle
Other ones... just because.
https://www.eurooptic.com/Sig-Sauer...P-Dev-L-MOA-Illum-Reticle-Side-Focus-025.aspx
https://www.eurooptic.com/Sig-Sauer...P-MOA-Illum-Reticle-Side-Focus-025-MOA-A.aspx
https://www.eurooptic.com/Sig-Sauer...P-MOA-Illum-Reticle-Side-Focus-025-MOA-A.aspx
6-24, non-illuminated, reasonable price
https://www.primaryarms.com/vortex-optics-diamondback-tactical-6-24x50-ffp-rifle-scope
Check out the new 2-12 Athlon Helos. It's FFP, Illuminated, and won't break the bank. Give @gr8fuldoug a call at cameraland and they'll treat you right. I just ordered a 4-20 Helos for my 22lr and got a great deal.
I had a Leupold Mk4 mildot that went on mine, because it wasn’t on anything else. It’s like 6-20x and no -illum, but it works. I’ve only been able to shoot to 300y with it, but am working on changing it.
If I had a $500 budget for an optic, this is the route I'd go. I currently have a 3-9x Leupold VX-R Patrol on my 18" SPR build, and it works well, but I find myself preferring FFP over SFP these days. The reticle on the Helos reminds me a lot of the Vortex Razor 1-10x. While I appreciate the utility of LPVOs, it's hard to beat a quality 3-9x, 2-10x, 3-15x, or similar magnification range if you're on a budget.
If had $2k to spend, I'd get a Vortex Razor G3 1-10x and know that I'd be prepared for just about anything.
If your budget is somewhere in between, there are A LOT of great scopes that will work - you just have to define your criteria and try to narrow down the options.
EuroOptic has the vortex Viper PST Gen ii 3-15 FFP on a close out sale right now for 600$
for that price its hard to beat and would serve well on a precision plinker.
oh and its just the reticle being discontinued not the whole scope. their illuminating the tree and not just the cross on the new reticle
but if thats not a 300$ want to you then its a steal.
liberty Optics has the Diamondback tactical 4-16 FFP for 300$
i am probably going to pick that guy up as a stopgap for my Bergara while i save for the ZCO 420.
for that price its hard to beat and would serve well on a precision plinker.
oh and its just the reticle being discontinued not the whole scope. their illuminating the tree and not just the cross on the new reticle
but if thats not a 300$ want to you then its a steal.
liberty Optics has the Diamondback tactical 4-16 FFP for 300$
i am probably going to pick that guy up as a stopgap for my Bergara while i save for the ZCO 420.
The only real answer is: The biggest one you can afford.
Seriously though, without some more info - it's an impossible question to answer. It all depends on what it's primary intended us is, it's secondary use and so on. If your primary use is to go to the range with your buddy and shoot and holes in paper or on long range steel from static positions - get the biggest, highest power scope you can afford. I have a 5-20x Razor HD on my Precision AR and most days I wish I had more, even when shooting groups at 100yds. Keeps me from having to get up to look into a spotting scope. I also like higher power scopes for seeing hits or misses on steel at longer ranges, especially with the small .223 splash compared to a big caliber. If you're going to be doing 3 gun and run stuff at shorter ranges - then yes a 1-6, 1-8, ACOG, etc will work really well. Hell, you can shoot very accurately out to 2-300 yds with a red dot.
Personally, I don't find much utility in the middle range scopes like the 4-16x, 3-18x, 10x, etc. The magnification is too high for really short range stuff and the high end is not enough for me at long ranges. Yes they work, of course they do. But if I'm going to go with a 16-18X, I'd rather just pay the bit extra and go to 25X. About the only time I ever dial DOWN from max magnification on high power scopes is briefly to find and line up the target and then I'm right back to max no matter the distance.
YMMV
That’s ok most people can make a hit at 500 yard with any optic on an ar 15
You are correct. I need to determine usage. I am such an old bastard that the biggest highest power scope is most probably the best choice. Although it will make my AR15 look tiny much like a rhino riding a tricycle.The only real answer is: The biggest one you can afford.
Seriously though, without some more info - it's an impossible question to answer. It all depends on what it's primary intended us is, it's secondary use and so on. If your primary use is to go to the range with your buddy and shoot and holes in paper or on long range steel from static positions - get the biggest, highest power scope you can afford. I have a 5-20x Razor HD on my Precision AR and most days I wish I had more, even when shooting groups at 100yds. Keeps me from having to get up to look into a spotting scope. I also like higher power scopes for seeing hits or misses on steel at longer ranges, especially with the small .223 splash compared to a big caliber. If you're going to be doing 3 gun and run stuff at shorter ranges - then yes a 1-6, 1-8, ACOG, etc will work really well. Hell, you can shoot very accurately out to 2-300 yds with a red dot.
Personally, I don't find much utility in the middle range scopes like the 4-16x, 3-18x, 10x, etc. The magnification is too high for really short range stuff and the high end is not enough for me at long ranges. Yes they work, of course they do. But if I'm going to go with a 16-18X, I'd rather just pay the bit extra and go to 25X. About the only time I ever dial DOWN from max magnification on high power scopes is briefly to find and line up the target and then I'm right back to max no matter the distance.
YMMV
My long range vision is very good. Also Im not shooting at 10 in plates at 500 with dot. Usually its a full size IPSC steel.
Unless your willing to pay for it...
My prior suggestions were based on some of your comments Indicating you want to keep price down.
If you can bump it up you can absolutely get a solid short scope with a high zoom ratio that won't look like the hubble on your rifle
Eotech Vudu 5-25x is nice and short and eurooptic still has their demo one for like 1300$ I wanna say
Nightforce NX8 4-32x is a very nice option as well for 2150$
The ZCO 4-20 doesn't have as much magnification as the others but its one of the best scopes in the world and only 12.6" butttt it going for 3600$ @ CStactical.
Lots of others as well like the Schmidt ultra short, March 3-24x, Khales K318i, Leupold Mk5 3.6-18, Burris XTRiii 3-18, ect.
BUT you typically have to pay more for the good shortys especially if you are still trying to keep weight down.
Funny, 25 years ago overkill was a Simmons 3-9x deer scope on a 10/22.Zactly!
I have a 5-25 S&B PMII on my Bergara .22. Yes it’s overkill, but it works
I often suggest the Tasco 6-24x42 Varmint/Target (VAR624x42M). It's cheap and available, even on Amazon. It has covered turrets, which are also resettable to zero. There are Mil-Dots, and the scope has to be set to a particular power to use them for ranging. It's actually simple, and covered in the included instructions. I don't use Mil-Dots or FFP; so far, none of my needs have required them.
6X can cause some small issues finding the target, but it's quick enough unless you're facing a charging Woodchuck, or some other form of hazardous varmint. 24X can be pretty soupy at the long distances on heavy mirage days, but the variable magnification can tame that by dropping down to 16 or 18X.
The higher powers can help refine the aim in non-mirage situations, and really comb the undergrowth at full power.
I have three, some going on two decades old. They can be pretty versatile. I've mounted one on a "worked" 10/22 and won matches with it, and put another on my 260 and shot 1000yd F Open with it for several years in a row. Long story short, they are a reasonable priced, relatively reliable (considering price) utility scope. I have three of the Tascos, and three of the Muellers, and at current costs they total just over a grand. There is a lot of junk on the lower shelf, and it's being eliminated as producers figure out that they can use the current situation to command healthy sums. Unfortunately, as they throw out the wash water, there are still a few babies, like these scopes, going out with it. Just bear in mind, the China trash is not going anywhere, thanks to our new administration.
My 260 now wears a Mueller 8-32x44, which is another one of my less expensive but fine performing finds. It's a better scope, but the 260 still shoots just as well as it did with the Tasco, which included several consecutive strings (not any with 10 of them yet, though) of X's at 1000yd. I also have a BDC scope for it, but that's another special project scope.
There's a lot of pressure to spend big on optics, and a lot of sense to doing just that. For highly accurized AR's intended for competitive shooting that makes the most sense. But for us Elder folks and something of a general purpose AR, something a bit more humble can get the job done just fine.
I will be 75 in May. I had the VA take care of my cataracts back in late 2019. The difference was simply astounding. It's like walking into a theater and seeing technicolor for the first time. IMHO, it gave me a whole new understanding of optics and clarity. Sometimes the problem is the old MK I Eyeball. Sometimes, it's a lot cheaper to fix than to buy top shelf optics. Mine cost me nothing but the time.
At our age, it's a serious consideration. The process is painless, a bit confusing, and outright astounding in its effect. The VA has it down to an assembly line process, and I give them top marks. In essence; it's a refurb for the old Mk I's. If you still have cataracts, don't hesitate, get the process started.
I've been with this site since its inception (and even a little before that....), and it has transformed continuously over the past 20 years. Nearly all of us were rookies then, and a lot of knowledge that is the pinnacle of civilian LR marksmanship has originated on this site and others much like it. Over that span I have more or less assumed a role which keeps the rookies in the loop. Some among us are champions, and many more of us are still climbing the ladder of marksmanship development. The top is very ably covered by many here. I figure somebody has to add a bit for the rest.
Greg
6X can cause some small issues finding the target, but it's quick enough unless you're facing a charging Woodchuck, or some other form of hazardous varmint. 24X can be pretty soupy at the long distances on heavy mirage days, but the variable magnification can tame that by dropping down to 16 or 18X.
The higher powers can help refine the aim in non-mirage situations, and really comb the undergrowth at full power.
I have three, some going on two decades old. They can be pretty versatile. I've mounted one on a "worked" 10/22 and won matches with it, and put another on my 260 and shot 1000yd F Open with it for several years in a row. Long story short, they are a reasonable priced, relatively reliable (considering price) utility scope. I have three of the Tascos, and three of the Muellers, and at current costs they total just over a grand. There is a lot of junk on the lower shelf, and it's being eliminated as producers figure out that they can use the current situation to command healthy sums. Unfortunately, as they throw out the wash water, there are still a few babies, like these scopes, going out with it. Just bear in mind, the China trash is not going anywhere, thanks to our new administration.
My 260 now wears a Mueller 8-32x44, which is another one of my less expensive but fine performing finds. It's a better scope, but the 260 still shoots just as well as it did with the Tasco, which included several consecutive strings (not any with 10 of them yet, though) of X's at 1000yd. I also have a BDC scope for it, but that's another special project scope.
There's a lot of pressure to spend big on optics, and a lot of sense to doing just that. For highly accurized AR's intended for competitive shooting that makes the most sense. But for us Elder folks and something of a general purpose AR, something a bit more humble can get the job done just fine.
I will be 75 in May. I had the VA take care of my cataracts back in late 2019. The difference was simply astounding. It's like walking into a theater and seeing technicolor for the first time. IMHO, it gave me a whole new understanding of optics and clarity. Sometimes the problem is the old MK I Eyeball. Sometimes, it's a lot cheaper to fix than to buy top shelf optics. Mine cost me nothing but the time.
At our age, it's a serious consideration. The process is painless, a bit confusing, and outright astounding in its effect. The VA has it down to an assembly line process, and I give them top marks. In essence; it's a refurb for the old Mk I's. If you still have cataracts, don't hesitate, get the process started.
I've been with this site since its inception (and even a little before that....), and it has transformed continuously over the past 20 years. Nearly all of us were rookies then, and a lot of knowledge that is the pinnacle of civilian LR marksmanship has originated on this site and others much like it. Over that span I have more or less assumed a role which keeps the rookies in the loop. Some among us are champions, and many more of us are still climbing the ladder of marksmanship development. The top is very ably covered by many here. I figure somebody has to add a bit for the rest.
Greg
Last edited:
thank you Greg for the background and info on scopes. Yes, I do have my evaluated for catarack surgery every year. According to the doctor I am about 2 years away from it. I had an Athlon midas tac 6x24x50 on my AR15 and it performed very well on 7 inch steel at 300yds. Occasionally I could hit 4 inch steel at that distance. I just purchased a Browning x-bolt Max varmint/target in 223. That is about all the caliber I can handle at my age. I transferred the midas tac to the bolt gun and I am looking for something for the AR. I love the AR but, it eats ammo like I eat m&m's and I only have 6
I bought a hawke ffp 3x15 frontier and it cost me just under a grand. I have been thinking of upgrading the 338 with something better and putting the hawke on my model 70 243. Without the sunshade it isnt a mega huge scope either, but it has alot of the fearures more expensive scopes have.
i only have 6000 rds of 223 left and so I got the bolt gun which will hopefully make ammo last until i am too old to shoot. I have been reloading shotgun and pistol for many years but, I am to old to learn how to reload rifle.
ATACR 1-8 FC-DMx reticle for everything out to 300y for "practical shooting".
ATACR 4-16x42 Mil-XT for target shooting beyond that.
I typically run 2 separate optics on an 18" depending on the task. But I always run a mini dot sight on an offset in addition to my magnified optics.
Attachments
Last edited:
I run a Burris XTR II 1-8 on my FN DMR II. It isn't as awesome as some higher end scopes, but it rides with me across pastures and doesn't lose zero. Actually shot another coyote with it below the house last week.
Purpose drives optics choice. If a target gun, you'll want more magnification. Mine is a be-all, kill-all ranch rifle, so 1-8x works great from 50-300 yards.
Purpose drives optics choice. If a target gun, you'll want more magnification. Mine is a be-all, kill-all ranch rifle, so 1-8x works great from 50-300 yards.
I consider the S&B US 5-20 to be the perfect varmint/target AR Platform optic
The Athlon Helos 2-12x42 has a thicker reticle which makes it easy to see for older eyes. It is loaded with features and had nice glass. I love mine!
barrel is 22" and 24.5" to end of muzzle brake. Reticle pic on 12x
I put an AR together for shooting small groups on paper so I stuck a 15-60X Vortex GE on there. Helped a lot to see tiny aiming points on paper.
You fly boys just know how to do things right. That is one sweet looking AR15
You fly boys know how to do things right. That is one sweet looking gas gun. Just for giggles how much do you have invested???I put an AR together for shooting small groups on paper so I stuck a 15-60X Vortex GE on there. Helped a lot to see tiny aiming points on paper.
Stop listening to all these Pog Fobbit momma’s basement Pornhub Platinum members and hear the truth I’m about to lay down...
I was a Unit Delta Team (UDT) guy with 17 combat deployments with the 72nd Chairborne Ranger Regimen as a Master Chief Petty Sargeant Officer.
This is what real operators, like me, use. Accept no substitute.
I was a Unit Delta Team (UDT) guy with 17 combat deployments with the 72nd Chairborne Ranger Regimen as a Master Chief Petty Sargeant Officer.
This is what real operators, like me, use. Accept no substitute.
Last edited:
The caps are like Zaphod Beeblebrox’s super chromatic peril sensitive sunglasses.
Dude all MEAT EATERS know you're full of shit pushing that system with a green laser. All SPEC OPS know PLA AND SPETSNAZ calibrate their commy NVG's to green . He'll get his ass shot off. Go red laser or go home in a body bag bra....
Last edited:
Great bargain optic for $14.99. Only adds a mere 33.7lb to your rig
Quality weighs more. If it’s light, it’s junk.
Similar threads
