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What's a good consistent scale for measuring powder?

J

Jakeonthekob

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Mar 8, 2018
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Ok, something that drives me crazy is the inconsistency of my powder scale. I have the cheapo one that comes with the Hornady reloading kit. However the scale always shifts 0.1 grains and goes up to 0.5 grains off at times. My velocity is all over the place since I can't get a consistent charge weight, up to 30 fps spread.

What do you recommend $200 and lower? I don't have to have an automatic dispenser, just want a very accurate consistent scale.

Thanks in advance.
 
Yes, that piece of crap scale that Hornady puts in their kits was the first thing to hit the trash can out of that kit. It's frustrating as hell for someone new to reloading to have to deal with that kind of crap while trying to learn not to blow their faces and hands off. I ended up getting a Gempro. It's way better, but still drifts a little. I will upgrade again one day when the funds are right.
 
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Instead of a beam scale I would really prefer an electronic scale. So what if I bit the bullet and raised my budget to say $400? Seems like a lot of people use lab scales? I saw a lot of people using A&D and Sartorius but those are really out of my price range.
 
Srgt. Hulka said:
Yes, that piece of crap scale that Hornady puts in their kits was the first thing to hit the trash can out of that kit. It's frustrating as hell for someone new to reloading to have to deal with that kind of crap while trying to learn not to blow their faces and hands off. I ended up getting a Gempro. It's way better, but still drifts a little. I will upgrade again one day when the funds are right.
Click to expand...

God I had no idea about the scale drifting so I would be all careful and load very carefully till it barely crept over to whatever tenth grain but I had crazy vertical dispersion and velocity since it's so inconsistent. How do you find the Gempro in terms of accuracy/consistency? Also, what would you upgrade to?
 
These are the best two I've found for cheap scales:

www.midwayusa.com

Lyman Micro-Touch Digital Powder Scale 1500 Grain Capacity

Lyman is one of the most recognized names in reloading, producing innovative tools for serious shooters and reloaders. Offering products that get the...
www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com

www.midwayusa.com

National Metallic Digital Powder Scale 1600 Grain Capacity

The National Metallic Electronic Powder Scale provides reliable accuracy at an affordable price. It provides accurate measurements up to 0.1 of a grain*...
www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com

I've been looking to upgrade myself, but haven't bit the bullet to put a $400-700 scale on my bench yet.
 
Seems like A&D put out a good product, may just go that route. I used Sartorius when doing analytical chemistry at college but they are too damn expensive. Measure to .0001 grams though lol.

Thanks for the link 2aBaCa
 
Jakeonthekob said:
God I had no idea about the scale drifting so I would be all careful and load very carefully till it barely crept over to whatever tenth grain but I had crazy vertical dispersion and velocity since it's so inconsistent. How do you find the Gempro in terms of accuracy/consistency? Also, what would you upgrade to?
Click to expand...

So far I like the Gempro. It's slow, but not any slower than that Hornady abomination. I don't have a beam scale to compare the numbers, but looking at the velocities and groups that I'm getting with my rifle, it's either accurate or consistent. Hopefully both. When it does drift, it drifts a few hundredths of a grain, not a few tenths. I don't know how many loads I dumped because of that Hornady scale. That thing kept my blood pressure up every time I used it. The Gempro is much more relaxing. LOL

When I do upgrade, it will probably be to the A&D FX-120i. I doubt I'll get the auto-throw though. It's just a lot of money. If the auto-trickler will work without the auto-throw, I may consider that. But if it comes to it, I'll just get me a good manual trickler, and get rid of the plastic trickler that comes in the Hornady kit, and continue doing it manually.
 
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Srikaleak said:
Save your money and just get the A&D Fx120i. It's ~$550 if you know where to look. (CE). Otherwise you'll be coming back asking the same thing in 6 months.
Click to expand...

If it can be worked into the budget, I agree. I'm finding out, this precision stuff ain't for the faint hearted or the thin wallet. :D
Now if I can just make my wife understand.
 
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I was thinking about the chargemaster, but after doing a few searches here and other forums, it appears that some are good, others not so much. If you can swing it, give serious thought to the A&D 120i. It will serve you well, and when you start to lust after the auto trickler, and you probably will, you'll be half way there.
 
I had a Chargemaster. I thought long and hard before dropping the coin on an FX-120. Once I got the 120, I was glad I did. Made the Chragemaster look like a Mattel toy ...kind of like a little girl's "bake a cake" kit. It made the cake, but was pretty cheesy doing it when compared to the FX-120 auto-throw/trickle set up.
 
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get yourself a A&D, all those 200 dollars scale will drift a lot. You will end up wasting much more time than you expect
 
I run 2x Hornady auto ticklers and have had great luck with them. All my SDs are single digits.
 
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MarinePMI said:
I had a Chargemaster. I thought long and hard before dropping the coin on an FX-120. Once I got the 120, I was glad I did. Made the Chragemaster look like a Mattel toy ...kind of like a little girl's "bake a cake" kit. It made the cake, but was pretty cheesy doing it when compared to the FX-120 auto-throw/trickle set up.
Click to expand...

Can I ask how much you put into your system? Scale, powder thrower plus trickler? Also, which ones?
 
Consider that you can buy the auto trickler a piece at a time. Use the Lee scoops to get close to your desired charge, and you can use just the auto trickler to finish off. If you already have a 120i, you just need the trickler and blue tooth module. If you want to go all out with autothrow and 419 accessories, it gets expensive, but you can do it as you go.
If you ever use the entire kit, you probably won't be satisfied with anything else.
 
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Honestly, research on the reloading subforum here on the Hide and elsewhere will point you to the same essential reloading kit:
1. Forster Coax press / Dillon press with float toolhead
2. Redding dies
3. Turning mandrel / Bushing dies
4. Autotrickler setup for powder
5. Giraud Case Trimmer
6. AMP Annealer
7. Mitotuyo calipers
 
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Srikaleak said:
Honestly, research on the reloading subforum here on the Hide and elsewhere will point you to the same essential reloading kit:
1. Forster Coax press / Dillon press with float toolhead
2. Redding dies
3. Turning mandrel / Bushing dies
4. Autotrickler setup for powder
5. Giraud Case Trimmer
6. AMP Annealer
7. Mitotuyo calipers
Click to expand...

Yeah that's a lot of money for reloading tools. I'll take it slow and for now I'm going to upgrade the weakest link in my reloading gear, the scale.
 
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And that's how it is done. Sometimes, new guys that I'm showing how to reload comment on "Holy crap, I don't have the money for all this!" and I remind them that many of us have been reloading north of 30+ years. That's a long time to accrue dies, tools and accessories. Don't be overwhelmed, and do as you are now. Upgrade your tools a piece at a time, as you can. You'll get to the place that works for you soon enough, and then it will just be purchases based on curiosity or convenience that occur.

A full up FX-120 kit like mine runs around $1400 (419 upgrade kit with the full thrower/trickler set up from CE). It's a lot, but then again, I'm a far cry from that RCBS Partner Press starter kit I began with, 30 years ago (which was $86 total back then)...
 
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MarinePMI said:
And that's how it is done. Sometimes, new guys that I'm showing how to reload comment on "Holy crap, I don't have the money for all this!" and I remind them that many of us have been reloading north of 30+ years. That's a long time to accrue dies, tools and accessories. Don't be overwhelmed, and do as you are now. Upgrade your tools a piece at a time, as you can. You'll get to the place that works for you soon enough, and then it will just be purchases based on curiosity or convenience that occur.

A full up FX-120 kit like mine runs around $1400 (419 upgrade kit with the full thrower/trickler set up from CE). It's a lot, but then again, I'm a far cry from that RCBS Partner Press starter kit I began with, 30 years ago (which was $86 total back then)...
Click to expand...
And still cheaper than a Prometheus.
 
Gempro hand out the refund with a note stating known problems with the scales.
My chargmaster light is a great tool. It drifts.
My 505 catches the issues every time.
A good mechanical scale will answer your original question , fix your problem and cared for can always back up any upgrade in the future.
 
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I use a FA Intellidropper for .223, .308, etc. It’s consistent enough for those applications where I’m not looking for utmost consistency. It does have a tendency to wander a bit but overall, decent value for the money.

For true precision stuff, the A&D is the only way to go.
 
OP, what are you producing ammo for? Hunting, plinking, match?

The reason I ask is because it does matter in terms or budget. I purchased the RCBS Rockchucker Kit almost 25 years ago. About 10 years ago, I thought the charge master would be the way to match ammo. It works, but I feel that the money would have been better spent towards a high end digital scale.

I’ve actually found my RCBS powder measure to be pretty accurate, slightly less than +/- .1 grain with most powders.

What helped me the most in making great (not match) ammo was following the advice of 6.5 Guys and finding your velocity node. Once you find the “node”, just load in the center of that node and you don’t have to worry about slight variations in powder throws.

I did some testing with my 22-250 AI (Stiller action, Rock Creek Barrel, Jewel trigger) with trickled charges vs loading to the center of the node. I could not measure a difference in groups.

Just food for thought.
 
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I own the $25 from amazon Frankford Arsenal scale. It's accurate to within .1 or maybe .01 and does what I need it to. I get close on the powder measure, weigh a single charge then weigh up 10 and if they are the same I start making ammo. I'd rather put that $$ into buying bullets or another training class.
 
jasonprox700 said:
OP, what are you producing ammo for? Hunting, plinking, match?

The reason I ask is because it does matter in terms or budget. I purchased the RCBS Rockchucker Kit almost 25 years ago. About 10 years ago, I thought the charge master would be the way to match ammo. It works, but I feel that the money would have been better spent towards a high end digital scale.

I’ve actually found my RCBS powder measure to be pretty accurate, slightly less than +/- .1 grain with most powders.

What helped me the most in making great (not match) ammo was following the advice of 6.5 Guys and finding your velocity node. Once you find the “node”, just load in the center of that node and you don’t have to worry about slight variations in powder throws.

I did some testing with my 22-250 AI (Stiller action, Rock Creek Barrel, Jewel trigger) with trickled charges vs loading to the center of the node. I could not measure a difference in groups.

Just food for thought.
Click to expand...

I want to make ammo for target shooting and maybe match in the future. I can find my node quite easily but the problem is hits at 1000 yards with all the inconsistent charges I am getting.
 
sako17 said:
I own the $25 from amazon Frankford Arsenal scale. It's accurate to within .1 or maybe .01 and does what I need it to. I get close on the powder measure, weigh a single charge then weigh up 10 and if they are the same I start making ammo. I'd rather put that $$ into buying bullets or another training class.
Click to expand...

The issue I have is the scale drifting its zero and adding 0.1 grains at a time and not staying calibrated. Maybe you got a really good one where all the stars aligned but that's not the case with mine. It doesn't matter how much you train if the ammo you have is inconsistent. Are you gonna call every vertical miss a technical error? IMO just throwing your money away on an expensive class to learn how to shoot inconsistent ammo.
 
Amazon vendors hated me for a couple of months there. If a scale I bought drifted, back she went. Includes Hornady, RCBS and others.
I ran across some chit-chat by some hobby jewelry kind of folks and read about this scale "Smart Weigh GEM20" for a whopping $25.00. Best money I have spent. My only complaint would be the automatic shut off feature. You hesitate and scratch your butt, damn thing shuts off. I like that it goes out two decimal places also.

Amazon.com: Smart Weigh GEM20 High Precision Digital Milligram Scale 20 x 0.001g Reloading, Jewelry and Gems Scale: Digital Kitchen Scales: Kitchen & Dining

Online Shopping for Kitchen Utensils & Gadgets from a great selection at everyday low prices. Free 2-day Shipping with Amazon Prime.
www.amazon.com
 
I'm staying with my 1970s-vintage RCBS beam scale and a set of Lyman check weights. It's consistent. It can easily discern 3 kernels of extruded powder, 1 kernel if I'm patient enough to wait for ALL movement to stop.

I'd really like to have a digital scale, but I know from experience that cheap digital anything is worse than cheap analog equivalent. I have too many other toys I want before I spend $500 or more for a good one, and the whole purpose of OCW is elimination of the the need for single-kernel accuracy.

The check weight set is a cheap and almost essential investment for any scale. I can assemble a collection of weights that is, at most, 0.2 grains off my desired charge weight, and it eases my mind to see my scale is consistently giving me accurate data.
 
DownhillFromHere said:
I'm staying with my 1970s-vintage RCBS beam scale and a set of Lyman check weights. It's consistent. It can easily discern 3 kernels of extruded powder, 1 kernel if I'm patient enough to wait for ALL movement to stop.

I'd really like to have a digital scale, but I know from experience that cheap digital anything is worse than cheap analog equivalent. I have too many other toys I want before I spend $500 or more for a good one, and the whole purpose of OCW is elimination of the the need for single-kernel accuracy.

The check weight set is a cheap and almost essential investment for any scale. I can assemble a collection of weights that is, at most, 0.2 grains off my desired charge weight, and it eases my mind to see my scale is consistently giving me accurate data.
Click to expand...
AAaannnndddd my FX-120i is ordered via @spife7980 's link. $485 shipped. Thanks for posting.

Yes, my old RCBS / Ohaus scale is consistent/accurate within +/- 0.1 grain when weighing a check weight. It does indeed move for a kernel or two of powder... but after experimenting with my check weight set, I learned that the speed at which I "apply the load" - dump it in as from a scoop or ease it in as from a trickler - affected the "absolute value."

Plus or minus a tenth of a grain is good enough for decent ammo, but a 0.2-grain "extreme spread" in the scale's accuracy probably accounts for the 30fps or so spread I typically see in my 6.5CM handloads. When I finally spent the $ for my Brown&Sharpe caliper, I finally had a tool I could unequivocally trust, and I found I used it for much more than just handloading. So I imagine it will be with this scale.

@Jakeonthekob mentioned jumping down the rabbit hole. Yessir. Look at my posts from several months ago where I said I wouldn't handload rifle - because I knew about that there rabbit hole. Then I said, well, maybe a little hop in.

Yeah. Right. Having perfect handloads no doubt would have enabled me to remember to take the ?? chamber flag out of my ?? rifle yesterday while I could still see it, BEFORE the prone-with-rifle-shouldered stage timer beeped...
 
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Jakeonthekob said:
The issue I have is the scale drifting its zero and adding 0.1 grains at a time and not staying calibrated. Maybe you got a really good one where all the stars aligned but that's not the case with mine. It doesn't matter how much you train if the ammo you have is inconsistent. Are you gonna call every vertical miss a technical error? IMO just throwing your money away on an expensive class to learn how to shoot inconsistent ammo.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, that when you can't trust your load data than you're not loading precision ammunition. Not only do you need to have accurate charges (A&D FX-120I is great for this), another issue is neck tension, so turning your necks, use of bushing dies, primer pocker formers and flash hole reamers, micrometers to check for case and neck runout all contribute to precise reloading. Oh, don't forget to anneal your brass. These steps are just a few of the steps in precision case prep work.

The A&D FX-120I is sensitive to .001 grains or ten times the resolution of a scale that reads to .1 grains. For digital scale use, clean power and other factors should be followed, see instructions for before and during the use of the FX-120I scale for examples.

 
Bruce K said:
The A&D FX-120I is sensitive to .001 grains or ten times the resolution of a scale that reads to .1 grains.

Click to expand...
????????
DC930C54-BBC5-406B-B45E-FEE0DF605B41.png
 
You can do several things to prevent drifting in electronic scales. I was having problems with my Chargemaster drifting and after doing the following it doesn't drift anymore.

Ferrite split clamp magnets on the scales cord

I plug it into a battery back-up to clean up the power and protect it.

If you have florescent lighting, Install LED ballast bypass bulbs as not to have a ballast anymore.
 
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archerforkids said:
Amazon vendors hated me for a couple of months there. If a scale I bought drifted, back she went. Includes Hornady, RCBS and others.
I ran across some chit-chat by some hobby jewelry kind of folks and read about this scale "Smart Weigh GEM20" for a whopping $25.00. Best money I have spent. My only complaint would be the automatic shut off feature. You hesitate and scratch your butt, damn thing shuts off. I like that it goes out two decimal places also.

Amazon.com: Smart Weigh GEM20 High Precision Digital Milligram Scale 20 x 0.001g Reloading, Jewelry and Gems Scale: Digital Kitchen Scales: Kitchen & Dining

Online Shopping for Kitchen Utensils & Gadgets from a great selection at everyday low prices. Free 2-day Shipping with Amazon Prime.
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...

I have that one and THOUGHT worked great, but found a big problem. It seems to have different repeatabilities at different zeros. For example, I can zero it with nothing on the platter. Place what's supposed to be 115 gr 9mm with 4.1 gn titegroup on it, zero it, and measure a tray of 50 rounds. Most will go back to 0.00, some will be -.2, -.3, -.4 grains light, some a 1/10th or so heavier. Makes sense since not all cases or projectiles weigh exactly the same. But if I empty the platter, zero it, and re-weigh all of the same rounds, the ones that the first time around all settled on 0.00 will now differ by .2, .3, .4, etc. If it worked correctly, all the ones that weighed 0.00 different when zero'd out should weigh the same overall weight, but they don't. And... the 10g calibration weight they gave always weighs exactly 10.00 g. I really don't want to spend $600+ on a lab scale, but I can't have weights that suspect loading titegroup. Anyone have one that's in $100 range that would pass a test like this?
 
My Gem 20 will do what you're saying, but the variance is hundredths of a grain, not tenths. I have often weighed the same charges twice with different zeros and it varies at most by one or two hundredths.

It is claimed to have accuracy of 0.0001 g, which is about 0.0015 grains, so while the readout shows hundredths of a grain, its resolution may not actually be that good. Still, I've never seen it off by anything close to a tenth of a grain.
 
You are dealing with what we all do.
knowing your tools-is the key.
I throw with a chargemaster and checkwith my trusty 505.
I know my 505 and it needs tending too.
 
AviatorDave said:
I have that one and THOUGHT worked great, but found a big problem. It seems to have different repeatabilities at different zeros. For example, I can zero it with nothing on the platter. Place what's supposed to be 115 gr 9mm with 4.1 gn titegroup on it, zero it, and measure a tray of 50 rounds. Most will go back to 0.00, some will be -.2, -.3, -.4 grains light, some a 1/10th or so heavier. Makes sense since not all cases or projectiles weigh exactly the same. But if I empty the platter, zero it, and re-weigh all of the same rounds, the ones that the first time around all settled on 0.00 will now differ by .2, .3, .4, etc. If it worked correctly, all the ones that weighed 0.00 different when zero'd out should weigh the same overall weight, but they don't. And... the 10g calibration weight they gave always weighs exactly 10.00 g. I really don't want to spend $600+ on a lab scale, but I can't have weights that suspect loading titegroup. Anyone have one that's in $100 range that would pass a test like this?
Click to expand...

And... now it's going in the trash. I was loading a bunch of .223 into the wee hours in the morning. On my 3rd run of 100, about 1/2 way through, they were weighing about 2 full grains light. I calibrated the scale, still 2 grains light. The powder was getting low, I thought maybe it just wasn't filling as fast so I increased the charge in the powder measure and started checking each round. When I was done, I re-weighted my reference round that had a known exact charge, tare'd the scale, and started weighing each round. I double-check every round to see if I get one with zero charge, and to be sure each one will chamber. Every single one was now 2 grains heavy. I zeroed it, and my reference round was 2 grains heaver than it was before I started checking them. And I noticed when I press tare, it doesn't go to zero like it was earlier. It will hunt around. Nothing has changed, same room, same bench, etc. And of course, since I've had it 5 months, I can't return it. Good chance it may end up as a target.
 
I have 2 chargemasters and I have not experienced any problems with them like some describe online. There are a couple of things I do which have been mentioned, and some which have not.

no fluorescent lights
I have them plugged into an outlet strip which conditions the power going to them

a few things I have not seen mentioned,

I have to turn off my AC when I am dispensing powder because the table they sit on was too close to an air return and when the furnace fan kicked on it would change the scale reading by 0.1 grains.
Hopefully you did your research and are loading an easy cartridge with a forgiving powder. I think this is more important to good numbers than anything.
I have my chargemasters sitting on a different table than my press is attached to. this ensures I am not jiggling or bumping them while they dispense.

I am tempted to get one of the new lab scale fancy setups, but my chargemasters have not wronged me yet. I do wish they were a little faster though....
 
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