Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

[poison123]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ~Ace~</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">TONS of Other rifles work Also ! Find what you like and Shoot the fuckin things ! </span>

</div></div>

Couldn't agree more Ace.

 

[Osmosis]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Some great posts and some rather biased ones. Me and the guys I shoot with build our rifles to (This might be a shocker!) have fun with, and to put rounds through at the range.
I have no concern about resale or depreciation. I enjoy shooting and am not in a position to throw 5 grand at a rifle. I'll run it into the ground and then replace what went out, when/if that happens.
I have been very happy with my Savage 10.

There are plenty of aftermarket parts for savages to turn them into great tools.
Sure they aren't the ar15 of the bolt action world like the 700, but that doesnt bother me or deter me.

 

[Mahk]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I have a friend with a Savage and honestly I think in stock form it has a smoother action and bolt throw than my Remington 700 and personally I don't think the Savages are ugly at all, never understood why people do. That being said, if I was to do it over again I'd still buy the Remington 700 simply because it's the standard and it's a more proven design. Thousands of accessories available, seems to be the AR15 of the precision rifle world. You can build a Savage up to the standards of a high-dollar custom 700 or you can build a 700 down to the standards of a bone-stock Savage for around the same price as the latter. I don't understand why there's so much talk of price difference between the two as a Savage with the same features as my 700 is only about 50 bucks less, I spend almost that on a box of ammo. I bought my Remington 700 SPS AAC-SD with the intention of fully customizing it to be what I wanted it to be, and there are simply more options for customization available for the 700.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I find it highly entertaining that in a thread about what peoples' beef with savage is; that we are talking about ~$3000 rifles, and comparing savages to them.

So far, sounds like the aforementioned beefs are:

Barrel nut is ugly, but so highly convenient to the end user that it lowers the resale value because GAP didnt need to get involved in the build.

The military doesnt use them anymore

The bolt doesnt operate smoothly.

Seriously, this thread is going to sell a lot of Savages! Low cost, comparable performance to a $3000 GAP, user-serviceable. Never before have I seen Savage-bashing make Savage seem so good!


EDIT: Check out the DIY Savage bolt lift thread. You can learn how to greatly improve your bolt feel with a 38 special case and a $0.14 ball bearing in 30 minutes with nothing more than a hacksaw and file.


EDIT AGAIN: Don't get me wrong, guys, a GAP (or similar) is a sweet piece of work, and I'm not trying to say that a GAP doesn't have any business costing so much more than a Savage! I'm just saying that in the scheme of things, theres really not too much to bitch about in a Savage.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anthony box</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3fingervic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This last part is going to get me into trouble, but here goes. Savage has had many guns that have seen military service. I don't know them off hand but if called out I will put it up here. I believe that if Savage rifles would do just as well as Remingtons in the battlefield if they were modified as the latter are for their intended purpose. </div></div>

Savage made an SMLE No.4 MK1 during WW2. not sure of other rifles.

</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They also made Lewis machine guns in WWI and Thompson machine guns in WWII. I understand they tooled up considerably in WWII and built heavy munitions.
</div></div>
This illustrates some points I tried to make earlier so very well. Yes yes yes and Rockola, IBM, and International Harvester made such weapons as the M1 Carbine, Thompson and the M1 Garand. What the hell has that got to do with the price of tea in China? Evidently the military is not impressed with the current offerings at Savage. Show me a military weapon that was made from Savage specs, don't show me an SMLE and say Savage has a long history of making military weapons. This is what I don't like about Savage. The unending rhetoric in an attempt to elevate Savage to legendary status. Savage/Stevens has been the maker of affordable hunting guns for many many years. They have done a good job of that. They have developed several new inroads into F-Class and Tactical type weapons but they are not as prevalent in the winners circle as some would have us believe. They make a good rifle at an affordable price, only an idiot would argue that point. If the military does not use them there must be some reason and I can only make assumptions about why.
One thing this thread has inspired me to do is buy a Savage. As I have said I have shot several that were borrowed("come on you gotta shoot it you'll love it") and I spent the weekend with one developing a load for a friend who doesn't reload. Maybe if I actually own the rifle I will develope a different opinion and become another fanboy, I doubt it highly but we shall see.
Build it do anything to it you want at the end of the day it is still the same Savage. Just like a tricked out Cutlass Supreme with spinning rims and a kick ass stereo.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Build it do anything to it you want at the end of the day it is still the same Savage. Just like a tricked out Cutlass Supreme with spinning rims and a kick ass stereo.</div></div>

I think drag racing is a MUCH better car analogy.

A 2012 Dodge Charger SRT8 costs nearly $50,000, and runs the quarter mile in the high 12-second range. Its a top-line American performance sedan...but if your objective is straight-line performance, it gives you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that you can't get with a $10,000 garage-built Mustang, Camaro, etc.

No doubt, the SRT8 is a much more refined automobile than an old beater, and its resale value will be *substantially* higher than the budget build - and it should be since the investment is a magnitude higher.

But if your sole objective is performance, you can achieve equal performance for substantially lower initial investment.

And REALLY, isn't *that* the true appeal of a Savage?

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anthony box</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3fingervic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This last part is going to get me into trouble, but here goes. Savage has had many guns that have seen military service. I don't know them off hand but if called out I will put it up here. I believe that if Savage rifles would do just as well as Remingtons in the battlefield if they were modified as the latter are for their intended purpose. </div></div>

Savage made an SMLE No.4 MK1 during WW2. not sure of other rifles.

</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They also made Lewis machine guns in WWI and Thompson machine guns in WWII. I understand they tooled up considerably in WWII and built heavy munitions.
</div></div>
This illustrates some points I tried to make earlier so very well. Yes yes yes and Rockola, IBM, and International Harvester made such weapons as the M1 Carbine, Thompson and the M1 Garand. What the hell has that got to do with the price of tea in China? Evidently the military is not impressed with the current offerings at Savage. Show me a military weapon that was made from Savage specs, don't show me an SMLE and say Savage has a long history of making military weapons. This is what I don't like about Savage. The unending rhetoric in an attempt to elevate Savage to legendary status. Savage/Stevens has been the maker of affordable hunting guns for many many years. They have done a good job of that. They have developed several new inroads into F-Class and Tactical type weapons but they are not as prevalent in the winners circle as some would have us believe. They make a good rifle at an affordable price, only an idiot would argue that point. If the military does not use them there must be some reason and I can only make assumptions about why.
One thing this thread has inspired me to do is buy a Savage. As I have said I have shot several that were borrowed("come on you gotta shoot it you'll love it") and I spent the weekend with one developing a load for a friend who doesn't reload. Maybe if I actually own the rifle I will develope a different opinion and become another fanboy, I doubt it highly but we shall see.
Build it do anything to it you want at the end of the day it is still the same Savage. Just like a tricked out Cutlass Supreme with spinning rims and a kick ass stereo.
</div></div>

The reason Remington got...and thus now still has, the 'precision rifle' contract they do, is because back in the late '60's they were considered to be like Savage is now to Remington, against Winchester. They were the 'cheap' ones. Winchester model 70's went to war as the accuracy platform of 'made for civilian' rifles. It and the M1903A3/4. The military tried switching to the M1C/D those aren't exactly accurate enough to consistently put kills down @ 1k+. The M1 morphed into the M14 which had an accuracy platform morphed off of it, the M21. Good but not really, really accurate. So, back to the bolt gun they go. The one thing about a Remington, was it was pretty straightforward on how to get it to shoot much better than anything else on the market. So, it's been the 'go-to' since the late sixties. It doesn't mean it's the best. It means it's been good enough and that's whats needed. The inherent marketing that garners is a tremendous boost to Remington. Obviously, Savage wishes they could get that, and So does/did FN. Rockola, IBM, and IH are not now, nor did they have aspirations to become front-runner weapons builders.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Evidently the military is not impressed with the current offerings at Savage.....If the military does not use them there must be some reason and I can only make <span style="font-weight: bold">assumptions</span> about why. </div></div>

Assumption is the key word here. Look, whether or not the military buys and uses any given product has little/nothing to do with that product's quality or usefulness. A good example of this is the Beretta M9 sidearm. There are very few well informed folks out there rushing out to buy a Beretta. Most informed folks would say there are far better combat pistols available on the market...yet the military continues to buy and deploy them. The fact is there is way more to a company getting a military contract than simply making the "best" product.

My point is Savage lacking a military contract is, in my mind, a completely moot point. GAP doesn't have a military contract either, but no one seems to be pointing that out as a negative for GAP.

Also, I think it's a moot point that Savage has historically made arms for the military. As armorpl8chikn has pointed out: during wartime, if you've got machine tools, you're going to be making aramaments.

 

[rpk762]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

When I think savage it is a love hate thing. I love how they shoot. I have yet to see a savage that just did not shoot. Not to say they are not out there. I do not like how they look. Granted looks are not everything in a rifle but for some reason I do not like the look.

It is hard to say how much misuse or abuse a rifle will take before it fails. Put a Savage in a good stock and I am sure it will hold up to what 90 plus percent of us on this forum will throw at it.

 

[JWV]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

If you have a 3000+ dollar Savage I do believe you could get a large chunk of that money back in resale...IF...you part it out. Sell that McMillan Stock, Kreiger barrel, Rifle basix or Timney trigger, tuned target action, and I think you could do considerably better. If I were in the business of selling my rifles that is what I would do.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Turbo, GAP does have government contracts, as well Eric Reid was recruited out of GAP to run the USMC precision weapons shop, the place they make the M40. There are other less known facts that are not public.

Besides, you keep acting as if this is a debate between GAP and Savage. I only mentioned them because they worked on my rifle. But honestly Savage can't compete with them, savage just have size and volume on their side as a company.

The M9 is not the precision weapons program. In many cases it's a numbers game, not in this case. After this many years not having a contract speaks to people. Look at the requirements for the PSR solicitation, a lot goes into it for a rifle to pass.

 

[Johnny Lately]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Does the Ghost Dancer article still exist?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

No, it was a long time ago... a lot of changes since then. I might have the core of the original text, although finding them would pretty hard, needless to say any discussion in the forums is long gone.

This was 9 -10 years ago.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Was the original intent of the Savage barrel nut to be user friendly or make the cost of manufacture cheaper?

 

[FALex]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Am I wrong in my understanding that GAP's Templar action is a footprint of a 700, or is that way off base? I'm sure there are innumerable small .mil contracts that we are not privvy to; if GAP and other quality customs didn't have any of these, I would be shocked. I do love my Savages, though, they shoot great for me. I did not know about their attitude toward the precision shooting community. That does suck. On that note, however, LL have you attempted to make contact with Savage again or did the last experience leave too bad a taste in your mouth? It's probably not even worth your time at this point, huh? (as I'm staring at an ad for a Bighorn Arms action!)

ETA - I just saw an ad for Savage rifles on the sidebar...never seen oen of them before on here. Is this recent?

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

What I dislike about Savage:

They have so many models and incompatible parts. This part fits this Savage, but not this, etc.

The trigger sucks.

The stocks suck.

The action feels clunky and looser than current monetary policy.

You can't find the upgrades you want for them.

The smiths I want to screw the barrels on don't like working with Savages.

And finally, I won't buy a Savage because of the dickheads that go around claiming "my Savage out performs everything for less money" when in reality its bullshit. Sure, any novice could be an idiot that blew money on something he couldn't shoot, but that doesn't make his rifle superior.

ANY rifle can be made a shooter and as said before, more of it has to do with the work performed (ie: barrel, chamber, bedding, etc) than with this action's maker. Any mass produced item can be a diamond in the rough or a lemon. My .308 is an older 700 VS. I took it to the smith, had him cut the barrel down to 20", set back the chamber, true up the face and lug. I tuned the trigger and skim-bedded the H-S. It was a genuine half-MOA shooter (usually under) with GMM. I swapped out the bottom metal for Williams and bedded it into a HTG. Also had a member here throw on a Tac Ops bolt knob. Later on I did it in Gun Kote. It now averages five-round groups of .3 with my handloads. I was going to send it to GAP to rebarrel it because round-count is getting high and I want to thread it for a can, but apparently my local guy did a good enough job with the factory barrel it really shoots too good to mess with right now.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I dislike about Savage:

They have so many models and incompatible parts. This part fits this Savage, but not this, etc.

The trigger sucks.

The stocks suck.

The action feels clunky and looser than current monetary policy.

You can't find the upgrades you want for them.

The smiths I want to screw the barrels on don't like working with Savages.

And finally, I won't buy a Savage because of the dickheads that go around claiming "my Savage out performs everything for less money" when in reality its bullshit. Sure, any novice could be an idiot that blew money on something he couldn't shoot, but that doesn't make his rifle superior.

ANY rifle can be made a shooter and as said before, more of it has to do with the work performed (ie: barrel, chamber, bedding, etc) than with this action's maker. Any mass produced item can be a diamond in the rough or a lemon. My .308 is an older 700 VS. I took it to the smith, had him cut the barrel down to 20", set back the chamber, true up the face and lug. I tuned the trigger and skim-bedded the H-S. It was a genuine half-MOA shooter (usually under) with GMM. I swapped out the bottom metal for Williams and bedded it into a HTG. Also had a member here throw on a Tac Ops bolt knob. Later on I did it in Gun Kote. It now averages five-round groups of .3 with my handloads. I was going to send it to GAP to rebarrel it because round-count is getting high and I want to thread it for a can, but apparently my local guy did a good enough job with the factory barrel it really shoots too good to mess with right now. </div></div>

All the things I wanted to say but did not have the visceral fortitude.
I will buy a Savage as soon as I find one on the cheap like I want. I will test it as is and then put a Shilen barrel and a few other mods on it and see if it comes anywhere close to my current customs.

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I dislike about Savage:

They have so many models and incompatible parts. This part fits this Savage, but not this, etc.

The trigger sucks.

The stocks suck.

The action feels clunky and looser than current monetary policy.

You can't find the upgrades you want for them.

The smiths I want to screw the barrels on don't like working with Savages.

And finally, I won't buy a Savage because of the dickheads that go around claiming "my Savage out performs everything for less money" when in reality its bullshit. Sure, any novice could be an idiot that blew money on something he couldn't shoot, but that doesn't make his rifle superior.

ANY rifle can be made a shooter and as said before, more of it has to do with the work performed (ie: barrel, chamber, bedding, etc) than with this action's maker. Any mass produced item can be a diamond in the rough or a lemon. My .308 is an older 700 VS. I took it to the smith, had him cut the barrel down to 20", set back the chamber, true up the face and lug. I tuned the trigger and skim-bedded the H-S. It was a genuine half-MOA shooter (usually under) with GMM. I swapped out the bottom metal for Williams and bedded it into a HTG. Also had a member here throw on a Tac Ops bolt knob. Later on I did it in Gun Kote. It now averages five-round groups of .3 with my handloads. I was going to send it to GAP to rebarrel it because round-count is getting high and I want to thread it for a can, but apparently my local guy did a good enough job with the factory barrel it really shoots too good to mess with right now. </div></div>

I'd be happy to see you jokers at any of the competitions in eastern Ohio. Bring your rigs and see how you fair vs. all the savages

.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I dislike about Savage:

They have so many models and incompatible parts. This part fits this Savage, but not this, etc.

The trigger sucks.

The stocks suck.

The action feels clunky and looser than current monetary policy.

You can't find the upgrades you want for them.

The smiths I want to screw the barrels on don't like working with Savages.

And finally, I won't buy a Savage because of the dickheads that go around claiming "my Savage out performs everything for less money" when in reality its bullshit. Sure, any novice could be an idiot that blew money on something he couldn't shoot, but that doesn't make his rifle superior.

ANY rifle can be made a shooter and as said before, more of it has to do with the work performed (ie: barrel, chamber, bedding, etc) than with this action's maker. Any mass produced item can be a diamond in the rough or a lemon. My .308 is an older 700 VS. I took it to the smith, had him cut the barrel down to 20", set back the chamber, true up the face and lug. I tuned the trigger and skim-bedded the H-S. It was a genuine half-MOA shooter (usually under) with GMM. I swapped out the bottom metal for Williams and bedded it into a HTG. Also had a member here throw on a Tac Ops bolt knob. Later on I did it in Gun Kote. It now averages five-round groups of .3 with my handloads. I was going to send it to GAP to rebarrel it because round-count is getting high and I want to thread it for a can, but apparently my local guy did a good enough job with the factory barrel it really shoots too good to mess with right now. </div></div>

I'd be happy to see you jokers at any of the competitions in eastern Ohio. Bring your rigs and see how you fair vs. all the savages

.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

All the things I wanted to say but did not have the visceral fortitude...

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

This thread is so full of silly.

Like Ace said, pick what you want and shoot it. What someone is of no consequence, and you really shouldn't give a crap what someone else thinks. If they want to look down their nose at you, let 'em, who cares.

It's all about the indian, not the bow, or arrow. I don't care about resale value, I don't change up my stuff often, I buy something and stick with it. My savage i've had for 11 years now, and it's never going away.

Branden

 

[Wesilg]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I own both a remington 700 in a 308 and a savage 12 .223. They are both nice the Remington is a lot more solid but before the hs precision stock it didn't shoot as good as the savage. Now with a nice piece of glass on both and the better stock on the 700 the Remington out shoots the savage. However the savage still has the stock , stock. I can't complain with either. The Remington has sooooo many upgrades you can do with it. Savage is getting there though.

 

[mason.fernandez]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I shoot Savages and I love to make fun of them. I refer to mine as salvage because when I get to the range, my "salvage" tends to outshoot everything else at the range. Then I get to say that my el cheapo "salvage" shoots better than your expensive Browning, Winchester, Remington, Tikka, etc.

That being said, any Remington, Savage, Tikka, etc. has the ability to shoot VERY well. It is just a matter of getting a good one from the factory. My 7mm Remington Magnum Savage posts a .4 inch group or less every time I shoot it and I haven't changed anything on it. My trigger is at 4.5 lbs, my barrel is thin as a pencil, my stock feels like it was made from melted down Rubbermaid containers, and the barrel nut looks as hideous as ever.

By the way, the Savage action is tough. I could drop kick the thing off of a 50 foot cliff and it would probably be just fine. The pencil barrel would probably be bent in half and the stock would have exploded before hitting the bottom because of the air resistance.

I do love my Savages though! (I hate my Weatherby)
-Fernandez

 

[Austincqc]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I own two Savage rifles and the thing I can't stand is the multitude of changes that have made aftermarket shopping a pain. The support exists but it is a pain to make sure you're getting the correct parts that will fit your rifle.

I don't make fun of my rifles because they do their job incredibly well.

 

[GlockandRoll]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I've always loved Savage rifles, even more so since they added theh accu-trigger and started offering Mc/HS stocks. They have button rifled barrels and a two-piece bolt face, both of which help accuracy.

I've owned 5 or 6 over the years, and currently have 2 and both are phenomenally accurate. It blows my mind how little I paid for them.

It doesn't have to cost a lot to be good folks.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I dislike about Savage:

They have so many models and incompatible parts. This part fits this Savage, but not this, etc.

The trigger sucks.

The stocks suck.

The action feels clunky and looser than current monetary policy.

You can't find the upgrades you want for them.

The smiths I want to screw the barrels on don't like working with Savages.

And finally, I won't buy a Savage because of the dickheads that go around claiming "my Savage out performs everything for less money" when in reality its bullshit. Sure, any novice could be an idiot that blew money on something he couldn't shoot, but that doesn't make his rifle superior.

ANY rifle can be made a shooter and as said before, more of it has to do with the work performed (ie: barrel, chamber, bedding, etc) than with this action's maker. Any mass produced item can be a diamond in the rough or a lemon. My .308 is an older 700 VS. I took it to the smith, had him cut the barrel down to 20", set back the chamber, true up the face and lug. I tuned the trigger and skim-bedded the H-S. It was a genuine half-MOA shooter (usually under) with GMM. I swapped out the bottom metal for Williams and bedded it into a HTG. Also had a member here throw on a Tac Ops bolt knob. Later on I did it in Gun Kote. It now averages five-round groups of .3 with my handloads. I was going to send it to GAP to rebarrel it because round-count is getting high and I want to thread it for a can, but apparently my local guy did a good enough job with the factory barrel it really shoots too good to mess with right now. </div></div>

I'd be happy to see you jokers at any of the competitions in eastern Ohio. Bring your rigs and see how you fair vs. all the savages

.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

All the things I wanted to say but did not have the visceral fortitude... </div></div>

I will be back up at Thunder Valley before the season ends if nothing happens. Will try to come to Rayner's eventually. I ain't skeered

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

So, in summary.

There are those who don't like Savages because if you cutomize them they won't resale as high as a custom Remmy. (true)

Those who say that doesn't matter, a rifle is meant to be shot not held for a profit on resale.

There are those who say there isn't the amount of aftermarket stuff to customize. (Not necessarily true, and options getting better)

Those who don't like it because it has no current military contract. (true, it shows branding is a strong thing. But not pertinent to how YOUR rifle shoots)

Those who don't like it because of the floating head, the sloppy action while the bolt is to the rear, it's ugly, the trigger. (true, but they still shoot as good or better than stock Remmy's. And the trigger can be adjusted down, just as good as the Remmy's and Winny's)

They don't like the stocks. (true only for the cheap ones. The HS. precision and Mcmillan stocks that are competitively priced are, IMO, as good as the same ones going on Remingtons.)

Some say the hammer forged barrels are better than the button rifled barrels. (completely not true. Also not true that button rifled barrels are as good as cut rifled barrels {top end custom}. Cut rifled has given the best accuracy over a longer barrel life of equally treated {fired} barrels)

Those that don't like them because it's too hard to figure out the two styles of actions and the trigger style that goes with their particular model. (somewhat true. The screw spacing is different for staggerfeed and centerfeed, but those are the only options. The trigger option is separate, accutrigger or non-accutrigger. A number of aftermarket options exist for both.)

This debate can go on and on. If you have a great rifle, shoot it. If not, get one that does. People will tend to go with what they know works. And can be modified to work better. Remington has pretty much offered that in the past on a pretty solid platform. Savage is making inroads now in the shooting world that shows they can have just as substantially accurate a platform on a day in day out basis. They've added a lot of cheap stuff that doesn't mean all that much except to the extreme accuracy nuts. In which case there is always someone who will make what you need for a price. Sounds like how Remingtons started getting highly modified too....

I say no reason to hate. Shoot and enjoy what you can get your hands on. If you want to build it up to something, keep looking, I'm sure something you want is in the works somewhere if you told somebody about it.


<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:

And what is 'visceral' fortitude? Your deep gut feeling, or unreasonable decision based on fear? Earthy common knowlegde?
Maybe you <span style="font-style: italic">'splanched'</span>

Back in the day, we put it straightforward and called it "<span style="font-style: italic">Intestinal fortitude</span>", i.e. <span style="text-decoration: underline">GUTS</span></span>

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And what is 'visceral' fortitude? Your deep gut feeling, or unreasonable decision based on fear? Earthy common knowlegde?
Maybe you <span style="font-style: italic">'splanched'</span>

Back in the day, we put it straightforward and called it "<span style="font-style: italic">Intestinal fortitude</span>", i.e. <span style="text-decoration: underline">GUTS</span>[/color]</div></div>

I find it simply hilarious that anyone would think that "visceral fortitude" is required to type a couple hundred words explaining why one does not like a particular rifle manufacturer. Wow, what courage!

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

It comes down to two options in my opinion. Gun snobs and non-gun snobs. I will never turn my nose up at any shooter, no mater what he brings to shoot. I will help anyone if I can. I can't stand gun snobs and the only good thing about them is watching as they eat humble pie. I'm not going to say I'm the best shooter in the world but I know enough to be dangerous and to beat guys with rigs costing 2 to 3 times more than mine.

It can all be summed up in one statement. Shoot what you brought be proud of it and its strengths and who cares what people think about what your shooting. If you like savage learn to shoot and shoot it and it will serve you well.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I dislike about Savage:

They have so many models and incompatible parts. This part fits this Savage, but not this, etc.

The trigger sucks.

The stocks suck.

The action feels clunky and looser than current monetary policy.

You can't find the upgrades you want for them.

The smiths I want to screw the barrels on don't like working with Savages.

And finally, I won't buy a Savage because of the dickheads that go around claiming "my Savage out performs everything for less money" when in reality its bullshit. Sure, any novice could be an idiot that blew money on something he couldn't shoot, but that doesn't make his rifle superior.

ANY rifle can be made a shooter and as said before, more of it has to do with the work performed (ie: barrel, chamber, bedding, etc) than with this action's maker. Any mass produced item can be a diamond in the rough or a lemon. My .308 is an older 700 VS. I took it to the smith, had him cut the barrel down to 20", set back the chamber, true up the face and lug. I tuned the trigger and skim-bedded the H-S. It was a genuine half-MOA shooter (usually under) with GMM. I swapped out the bottom metal for Williams and bedded it into a HTG. Also had a member here throw on a Tac Ops bolt knob. Later on I did it in Gun Kote. It now averages five-round groups of .3 with my handloads. I was going to send it to GAP to rebarrel it because round-count is getting high and I want to thread it for a can, but apparently my local guy did a good enough job with the factory barrel it really shoots too good to mess with right now. </div></div>

I'd be happy to see you jokers at any of the competitions in eastern Ohio. Bring your rigs and see how you fair vs. all the savages

.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>


Thanks for proving my point with your ridiculous chest-thumping.

Its not the rifle. Its the shooter. You may beat some guys with custom rifles with your Stevens, but odds are those guys aren't good shooters. Meanwhile, you give a good shooter a good rifle, he'll mop the floor with guys like you.

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Tyler read all the posts. I've already stated it more about re Indian than the bow or the arrow. And I have beat world record holding shooters with custom rigs so know what your saying before you say it.

Another gun snob running his trap without knowing all the facts.

I'm checking out of this thread because some guys just want to smear people for not having deep wallets.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[poison123]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tyler read all the posts. I've already stated it more about re Indian than the bow or the arrow. <span style="font-weight: bold">And I have beat world record holding shooters with custom rigs</span> so know what your saying before you say it.

Another gun snob running his trap without knowing all the facts.

I'm checking out of this thread because some guys just want to smear people for not having deep wallets.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

Put aside the entire Savage vs everything else.

Thats some grade A shit talk right there.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tyler read all the posts. I've already stated it more about re Indian than the bow or the arrow. And I have beat world record holding shooters with custom rigs so know what your saying before you say it.

Another gun snob running his trap without knowing all the facts.

I'm checking out of this thread because some guys just want to smear people for not having deep wallets.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

1. Let's see some documentation of you beating world-class shooters in a match. Match results are posted. Let's see it.

2. So you attribute that you "have beat world record holding shooters with custom rigs" BECAUSE you shoot a Savage?

Let's have facts...oh wait, you left because you knew you'd get called out.

Who did I smear because the lack of money? I simply said why I don't like Savages. What did I say that smeared anybody? You apparently got your panties in a wad over my thoughts on Savage. Why so defensive?

What does not having money have to do with shooting Savages?

 

[HighRez]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this is begging for a flame war. </div></div>

Mission accomplished.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

this thread is extremely off track. Bottom line is that Savages shoot and are great rifles. This is pretty much a well agreed on conclusion. They offer some feature that some shooters don't prefer and that is fine. Without variety this would be a dull sport. The point being made by so many myself included is that few people that own custom or beefed up Remingtons can't do anything with them that they couldn't do with a Savage. Its not my money to spend and what people do is their own choice. But, that is a fact. Next argument spun off that point is the advantages that come with a custom or beefed up Remmy. Few guys actually need this. FACT. Some reading this thread may honestly need and take advantage of these features and that fine, that's why the option is out there. But its my opinion that people that don't need a high end rifle and buy one anyways are buying for status. And it is those guys that get pissy when a Savage spanks their ass. If you hunt in extreme conditions, are a LEO or compete in extreme conditions I guess these other options make sense. But its my experience that a Savage can perform as well for far less money considering what the normal Joe will put their rifle through. To each his own. Personally I got better shit to spend cash on that chasing better accuracy than .5moa!

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

It seems to me that most of the "hate" is perceived. I am unaware of any threads currently, or recently that are Savage hate threads.

It seems to me that most of the Savage advocates are the ones who are getting butt-hurt because someone advocates for their favorite brand that doesn't include Savage.

I personally don't care for the accu-trigger and therefore won't purchase another.

I am having a hard time seeing the big money savings that is being put forth by certain individuals in this thread, and the whole board. Both Savage and Remington have their lower cost lines (around $275), and both offer relatively expensive rifles. Your 110's, 111's, or 112's or whatever are the same price as the Remington 700's in the sps line.

The way a few sound here, gunsmiths will be a thing of the past, because Savage can mass produce the same product or better than a custom builder puts out. Right.

Hell we have guys here beating record holders with off the shelf Savages. I bet if these record holders would just switch to a Savage, they could re-claim their titles huh?

I really don't care what you shoot, I have both, and personally, I will continue to advocate for Remington.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And what is 'visceral' fortitude? Your deep gut feeling, or unreasonable decision based on fear? Earthy common knowlegde?
Maybe you <span style="font-style: italic">'splanched'</span>

Back in the day, we put it straightforward and called it "<span style="font-style: italic">Intestinal fortitude</span>", i.e. <span style="text-decoration: underline">GUTS</span>[/color]</div></div>

I find it simply hilarious that anyone would think that "visceral fortitude" is required to type a couple hundred words explaining why one does not like a particular rifle manufacturer. Wow, what courage!

</div></div>

My first thought when I read 'visceral' was, "How thick is snot?"

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And what is 'visceral' fortitude? Your deep gut feeling, or unreasonable decision based on fear? Earthy common knowlegde?
Maybe you 'splanched'

Back in the day, we put it straightforward and called it "Intestinal fortitude", i.e. GUTS
</div></div>
Viscera: The internal organs of the body, specifically those within the chest (as the heart or lungs) or abdomen (as the liver, pancreas or intestines).

The singular of "viscera" is "viscus" meaning in Latin "an organ of the body."
Sorry for not being straightforward and not making it a bit simpler. Thanks for the English lesson.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it simply hilarious that anyone would think that "visceral fortitude" is required to type a couple hundred words explaining why one does not like a particular rifle manufacturer. Wow, what courage! </div></div>
I find it hilarious that after a man is bitch slapped you feel the need to throw in a punch or two, good timing.
I will have you know I have already written several hundred words in this thread of my own. I have tried to be civil and choose my words carefully in an attempt to not be the one that caused a full out flame war. I have already said that I plan to buy one of these magical low cost giant killers that so many people feel the need to act like dickholes over. For the record I do not look down my nose at people that cannot afford a custom rifle. I have worked many years and done much trading and swapping to be able to own a few custom guns. I don't like people acting like I am a goddamned fool for owning those custom guns when I could have went down to Wal-Mart and bought something off the rack just as good, when in fact I have witnessed that is mostly bullshit. There are always a few exceptional examples from most manufacturers AS I HAVE ALREADY STATED. I own a few. Like I said this class envy bullshit goes both ways. I should have just quoted in red what exactly Tyler said that I felt strongly about and left it there. I'm out unless anyone feels the need to make some more personal remarks.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems to me that most of the "hate" is perceived. I am unaware of any threads currently, or recently that are Savage hate threads.

It seems to me that most of the Savage advocates are the ones who are getting butt-hurt because someone advocates for their favorite brand that doesn't include Savage.

I personally don't care for the accu-trigger and therefore won't purchase another.

I am having a hard time seeing the big money savings that is being put forth by certain individuals in this thread, and the whole board. Both Savage and Remington have their lower cost lines (around $275), and both offer relatively expensive rifles. Your 110's, 111's, or 112's or whatever are the same price as the Remington 700's in the sps line.

The way a few sound here, gunsmiths will be a thing of the past, because Savage can mass produce the same product or better than a custom builder puts out. Right.

Hell we have guys here beating record holders with off the shelf Savages. I bet if these record holders would just switch to a Savage, they could re-claim their titles huh?

I really don't care what you shoot, I have both, and personally, I will continue to advocate for Remington.


</div></div>
Did you even read this thread before you chimed in? No one made claims of beating a world record holder with a "off the shelf Savage"! I am personally not a fan of the Accutrigger either. That is a easy fix with many aftermarket options available at different price points. Nobody said that there isn't a need for smiths either. Personally I have no use for one. For example I have a 284 Win barrel on the way for my Savage SA. When I get the barrel, I will not need a smith to install it (courtesy of my ugly barrel nut). There is one cost savings that you fail to see. That SA I have also did not need to be trued and worked over to perform to its fullest capabilities either. So there you have another cost savings. With the amount of aftermarket options available now I do not feel as though I am shorted by owning a Savage. My 284 with have CDI bottom metal and feed from Alpha WSM magazines. So there are options out there for many different preferences. Possibly not as many for LA Savage's but still enough to keep us happy. Time will tell. Savage continues to listen to their customer base and change when needed. They also put out new product lines based on feedback. It is my personal experience they make the best off the shelf rifle, which is what a lot of guys need due to limited cash. As I have stated before I can live with difference of opinion. But I think we owe new shooters and others looking to buy a precision firearm honest advice. And that is simple, both Remington and Savage can be made into great platforms. Try to find your preference and look over the advantages and disadvantages of each. To say you won't buy another Savage based solely on the Accutrigger is ignorant. But a $90 Rifle Basix for shit sake. For the record Merritt is my shooting partner, I will not disclose any names or events publically on a internet forum such as this, but I am also not disagreeing with anything he said. His Salvage is a hammer. So advocate for what you wish, but do us a favor and do so with some logic.

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems to me that most of the "hate" is perceived. I am unaware of any threads currently, or recently that are Savage hate threads.

It seems to me that most of the Savage advocates are the ones who are getting butt-hurt because someone advocates for their favorite brand that doesn't include Savage.

I personally don't care for the accu-trigger and therefore won't purchase another.

I am having a hard time seeing the big money savings that is being put forth by certain individuals in this thread, and the whole board. Both Savage and Remington have their lower cost lines (around $275), and both offer relatively expensive rifles. Your 110's, 111's, or 112's or whatever are the same price as the Remington 700's in the sps line.

The way a few sound here, gunsmiths will be a thing of the past, because Savage can mass produce the same product or better than a custom builder puts out. Right.

Hell we have guys here beating record holders with off the shelf Savages. I bet if these record holders would just switch to a Savage, they could re-claim their titles huh?

I really don't care what you shoot, I have both, and personally, I will continue to advocate for Remington.


</div></div>
Did you even read this thread before you chimed in? No one made claims of beating a world record holder with a "off the shelf Savage"! I am personally not a fan of the Accutrigger either. That is a easy fix with many aftermarket options available at different price points. Nobody said that there isn't a need for smiths either. Personally I have no use for one. For example I have a 284 Win barrel on the way for my Savage SA. When I get the barrel, I will not need a smith to install it (courtesy of my ugly barrel nut). There is one cost savings that you fail to see. That SA I have also did not need to be trued and worked over to perform to its fullest capabilities either. So there you have another cost savings. With the amount of aftermarket options available now I do not feel as though I am shorted by owning a Savage. My 284 with have CDI bottom metal and feed from Alpha WSM magazines. So there are options out there for many different preferences. Possibly not as many for LA Savage's but still enough to keep us happy. Time will tell. Savage continues to listen to their customer base and change when needed. They also put out new product lines based on feedback. It is my personal experience they make the best off the shelf rifle, which is what a lot of guys need due to limited cash. As I have stated before I can live with difference of opinion. But I think we owe new shooters and others looking to buy a precision firearm honest advice. And that is simple, both Remington and Savage can be made into great platforms. Try to find your preference and look over the advantages and disadvantages of each. To say you won't buy another Savage based solely on the Accutrigger is ignorant. But a $90 Rifle Basix for shit sake. For the record Merritt is my shooting partner, I will not disclose any names or events publically on a internet forum such as this, but I am also not disagreeing with anything he said. His Salvage is a hammer. So advocate for what you wish, but do us a favor and do so with some logic.



</div></div>

I know it is really hard to pick up on hypocrisy, try again, you might get it.

Thank you for diagnosing my opinion as ignorant. I was having a hard time with what I should call it. You must truly be an enlightened individual.

Thank you for reinforcing my previous statement about the butt-hurt savage owners.

 

[OFIS]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Am I crazy or did I just start noticing Savage Arms banner ads on this site...

 

[Black-X]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1. Let's see some documentation of you beating world-class shooters in a match. Match results are posted. Let's see it.

2. So you attribute that you "have beat world record holding shooters with custom rigs" BECAUSE you shoot a Savage?

Let's have facts...oh wait, you left because you knew you'd get called out.

</div></div>

I want an AIAE in .260 for matches like nobody's business but I like a good ol' fashioned pissing match and I'll take that challenge in defense of the Savage rifle. Here's the thread with the scores where my partner and I finished first against a winner of the 2010 International Sniper Challenge. I honestly feel that we rattled a couple teams on a stage or two accounting for the large spread on this match.

CLICK ME FOR SAVAGRY

***Disclosure: I'm not a sniper and I have no reservations with the fact that I might get my ass handed to me in a two way range per my example.

***

"Crappy" factory barreled Savage with standard Accutrigger.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Black-X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1. Let's see some documentation of you beating world-class shooters in a match. Match results are posted. Let's see it.

2. So you attribute that you "have beat world record holding shooters with custom rigs" BECAUSE you shoot a Savage?

Let's have facts...oh wait, you left because you knew you'd get called out.

</div></div>

I want an AIAE in .260 for matches like nobody's business but I like a good ol' fashioned pissing match and I'll take that challenge in defense of the Savage rifle. Here's the thread with the scores where my partner and I finished first against a winner of the 2010 International Sniper Challenge. I honestly feel that we rattled a couple teams on a stage or two accounting for the large spread on this match.

CLICK ME FOR SAVAGRY

***Disclosure: I'm not a sniper and I have no reservations with the fact that I might get my ass handed to me in a two way range per my example.

***

"Crappy" factory barreled Savage with standard Accutrigger.

</div></div>

Not directed at you abut you didn't bother to read it, anyway.

Do you attribute your success to your Savage? As if somehow you wouldn't have done as well had you been shooting a Remington with the same tweaks as your Savage (which isn't an off-the-shelf Savage).

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Funny, so many people get butthurt over people answering a simple question:

"what don't you like about Savages?"

How is it that simply answering an honest question gets so many people bent out of shape?

 

[USAF SP]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I own a Savage 10 FCP with McMillan stock. It's a .4 MOA rifle when I do my part. It's my first Savage. I have plenty of bolt guns (Remington, Browning, Sako, etc) everyone of them is an MOA or better gun. If it isn't I sell it off. A quote by Col Townsend Whelend is one I firmly agree with "Only accurate rifles are interesting".

When I'm on the range, the Savage will generate more discussion than any rifle I own. Some like it, some don't. I enjoy the bantering and I have yet to get butt hurt.

In case I develop a bad case of chaffing in my crack I'll make sure I carry a tube of Vagasil in my range bag from now on.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And what is 'visceral' fortitude? Your deep gut feeling, or unreasonable decision based on fear? Earthy common knowlegde?
Maybe you 'splanched'

Back in the day, we put it straightforward and called it "Intestinal fortitude", i.e. GUTS
</div></div>
Viscera: The internal organs of the body, specifically those within the chest (as the heart or lungs) or abdomen (as the liver, pancreas or intestines).

The singular of "viscera" is "viscus" meaning in Latin "an organ of the body."
Sorry for not being straightforward and not making it a bit simpler. Thanks for the English lesson.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it simply hilarious that anyone would think that "visceral fortitude" is required to type a couple hundred words explaining why one does not like a particular rifle manufacturer. Wow, what courage! </div></div>
I find it hilarious that after a man is bitch slapped you feel the need to throw in a punch or two, good timing.
I will have you know I have already written several hundred words in this thread of my own. I have tried to be civil and choose my words carefully in an attempt to not be the one that caused a full out flame war. I have already said that I plan to buy one of these magical low cost giant killers that so many people feel the need to act like dickholes over. For the record I do not look down my nose at people that cannot afford a custom rifle. I have worked many years and done much trading and swapping to be able to own a few custom guns. I don't like people acting like I am a goddamned fool for owning those custom guns when I could have went down to Wal-Mart and bought something off the rack just as good, when in fact I have witnessed that is mostly bullshit. There are always a few exceptional examples from most manufacturers AS I HAVE ALREADY STATED. I own a few. Like I said this class envy bullshit goes both ways. I should have just quoted in red what exactly Tyler said that I felt strongly about and left it there. I'm out unless anyone feels the need to make some more personal remarks.</div></div>

Actually, thank you for the English lesson. I had a different thought in mind as my last post showed of what I thought 'visceral' meant. I had to look it up to be clear.

Serious, no joking, no sarcasm.



As far as Savages go, meaning the better model 12's, I've found most every one I've ever shot to be very accurate. Most were around .5 MOA and some barely under 1 MOA.

However...and this is big.... I would expect a custom precision rifle to shoot like a benchrest gun. Where I may shoot .5 MOA out of the box with tuned handloads, I feel that if a good gunsmith has done his work, that rifle with tuned loads under extremely 'other factor-less' conditions should shoot .1 or better. That's also a matter of the reloader tuning his loads and his technique. Getting right down to the nitty gritty and finding every way not to change one thing for five shots. But, still, if the custom gun was put together right, it could do that.

It's also understandable, that those kinds of groups are not possible really, with most any gun, because of the nature of the differences of requirements of shooting tactical.

It's also a simple fact that mass machining today with computer controlled cuts and tolerances that can be held in the .0005's is reaching what a good machinist can do with a good machine (that is at least electronically measured).

I have only been able to do THAT with one of my Savages, the 12FV in .223. I shot a series of .08's and .09's for a time that had me thinking I really was on to a giant killer. Then, me or the rifle, that super accuracy faded. I haven't been able to put five shots under .1 since then. Remember, that was only one out of quite a bunch. I still hold that the bench is the best place to see what kind of accuracy THE RIFLE has. It's not as much of a test of the shooter unless you're getting down to splitting fine hairs. Again though, that is also a test of how accurately he can reload. **


Moving back to tactical type shooting, you are never going to need that kind of accuracy. But, it's always nice to have. I have yet to see a Savage that can duplicate any of the Custom bench guns and a lot of the Custom tactical rifles I've had the pleasure of shooting.

**note- LL, (Frank) <span style="text-decoration: underline">hates</span> shooting groups. He told me one time it's like pulling out one hair at a time, all day long. I love shooting groups. The only reason I use the analogy here is because I have always felt it is the purest way to test a rifles accuracy. The best way to eliminate shooter induced problems. I fully acknowledge, it's not a good test for a tactical shooter.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Remmy's suck, Savage suck.

Buy a Surgeon.

 

[Swift]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't like the way they look. I don't like the way they feel. I don't like the lack of options available for them.

That said, I wouldn't race for pink slips against one either and I don't talk shit about those who shoot them. </div></div>

This is a great post and a fine example of how to conduct oneself around a pretty volatile topic. +1 for you, sir.

Anyways, I own a Savage and a Remington, in an XLR and T5A respectively. When I only have enough time to bring one rifle to the range with me, 95% of the time I go for the Savage. Not sure why, maybe it's comfort or familiarity but it's never let me down and being able to smith it yourself offers a huge upside.

I don't think I'm alone on this but I believe Remington only has the support they do because they go to the military first. That's NOT to say Remingtons are junk. They build a fine rifle but a Savage can do everything a Remington can do and then some for less cost, shorter build time in the armory, and easier repairs if it should go down.

I'd love to see the aftermarket run wild with the Savage platform.

 

[Black-X]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Not directed at you abut you didn't bother to read it, anyway.

Do you attribute your success to your Savage? As if somehow you wouldn't have done as well had you been shooting a Remington with the same tweaks as your Savage (which isn't an off-the-shelf Savage). </div></div>

Of course I read it and I answered your first question. I realize it wasn't directed towards me but you asked, "Let's see some documentation of you beating world-class shooters in a match. Match results are posted. Let's see it." The other guy didn't post anything so I did just to show that a Savage can win against world-class shooters, that's all.

"Do you attribute your success to your Savage?" Yes and no. As long as the rifle is reliable, accurate and consistent I can't imagine the results being different if it were the Savage or a R700, or an AI, or a Sako, or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I like watching a good pissing match but I'm not getting pissy about it.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Didn't Black-X say his competition-winning Savage wore a factory barrel?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't Black-X say his competition-winning Savage wore a factory barrel? </div></div>

My match-winning Savage has the OEM barrel on it with about 4000 rounds through. Between the rifle and I, performance is only getting better.