Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.
I think the biggest reason why some people don't like Savages (read hate) is because for the longest time Remington DID own the accuracy off the shelf market. Pretty much, any tuned handload in a 700 of any kind could get you sub-moa. At least for a group or two. The other problem was up until the nineties, there were far and few between heavy-barreled dedicated long-range or precision type rifles. Winchester 70's had a love-hate following coming from the pre-post 64 debacle. Again, very accurate guns for their day and Savage barely had any inroads into the high accuracy bolt gun category. They had their 110 which everyone said shot well, but it wasn't a cut above Remington until they came out with their 'Tactical' model in the mid-90's.
Bar none, I've never had a more accurate rifle than my Winchester 70 HB in .222 Rem. I bought it used so I can't say what was done to it. All I did was make the best handloads I could and shoot it into little groups @ 100 yds.
So, fast forward to Savages claiming the 'accuracy' throne around 2000. Their marketing and low introductory prices paid off. Enough of those 'cheap' Savages were out there kicking ass on the competition, to get noticed by the general buying market. Couple that with the fact that this is the first conflict that snipers are actually congratulated and not looked on with disdain. That has been a huge factor in Remington and Savages success over the past ten years. But, in the last ten years if you look at it, one could always expect to pay more for the same equipped Remmy than a Savage.
One big factor in the accuracy change, was Savage going to a better process of button rifling. Remington stayed with the Hammer forged barrels. The latter causes stresses in the barrels that when heated (such as by firing) throw the shots off. Remington finally bettered it's hammer forging process by stress relieving heat treatment. Now, they are about neck and neck for like equipped rifles off the shelf.
Remington still has the edge though as there are a lot more accuracy nuts with dedicated set-ups for the 700. And, while the big thing with Savage is you don't need a gunsmith to change a barrel, you still need one to true the action. And if you want really tight accuracy from a barrel, a pre-cut barrel isn't going to be as close as a custom cut barrel. So, for a truly tight shooting rifle you do still need the gunsmith.
Anyhow, in a nutshell, it's the marketing, barrel attachment type and bolt heads that pretty much make the differences in these rifles. Savage gained a huge chunk of the 'off-the-shelf' precision rifle market because Remington was sleeping at the wheel. And, some folks don't like their favorites being challenged.
I think the biggest reason why some people don't like Savages (read hate) is because for the longest time Remington DID own the accuracy off the shelf market. Pretty much, any tuned handload in a 700 of any kind could get you sub-moa. At least for a group or two. The other problem was up until the nineties, there were far and few between heavy-barreled dedicated long-range or precision type rifles. Winchester 70's had a love-hate following coming from the pre-post 64 debacle. Again, very accurate guns for their day and Savage barely had any inroads into the high accuracy bolt gun category. They had their 110 which everyone said shot well, but it wasn't a cut above Remington until they came out with their 'Tactical' model in the mid-90's.
Bar none, I've never had a more accurate rifle than my Winchester 70 HB in .222 Rem. I bought it used so I can't say what was done to it. All I did was make the best handloads I could and shoot it into little groups @ 100 yds.
So, fast forward to Savages claiming the 'accuracy' throne around 2000. Their marketing and low introductory prices paid off. Enough of those 'cheap' Savages were out there kicking ass on the competition, to get noticed by the general buying market. Couple that with the fact that this is the first conflict that snipers are actually congratulated and not looked on with disdain. That has been a huge factor in Remington and Savages success over the past ten years. But, in the last ten years if you look at it, one could always expect to pay more for the same equipped Remmy than a Savage.
One big factor in the accuracy change, was Savage going to a better process of button rifling. Remington stayed with the Hammer forged barrels. The latter causes stresses in the barrels that when heated (such as by firing) throw the shots off. Remington finally bettered it's hammer forging process by stress relieving heat treatment. Now, they are about neck and neck for like equipped rifles off the shelf.
Remington still has the edge though as there are a lot more accuracy nuts with dedicated set-ups for the 700. And, while the big thing with Savage is you don't need a gunsmith to change a barrel, you still need one to true the action. And if you want really tight accuracy from a barrel, a pre-cut barrel isn't going to be as close as a custom cut barrel. So, for a truly tight shooting rifle you do still need the gunsmith.
Anyhow, in a nutshell, it's the marketing, barrel attachment type and bolt heads that pretty much make the differences in these rifles. Savage gained a huge chunk of the 'off-the-shelf' precision rifle market because Remington was sleeping at the wheel. And, some folks don't like their favorites being challenged.
