Why is the AI AXMC shooting this bad.

wolfy

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Did this POS AI finally get sorted out?
still working on it.
load made got it to about .6 moa
will try again this weekend different loads.
Adding..

why is it most people never seem to try factory match Ammo if there is a accuracy issue?

1. to cheap to buy a box

Or

2. Over confident in their loading ability (which 90% of reloaders willfully acknowledge that their pet loads don’t shoot as well as factory...which is embarrassing)

open to other theories as well..
I always said that you should be able to get a box of factory ammo and at worst be 2moa. This was like 6moa with cheap ammo.
For the price of these rifles you should get a good group.
other wise why not go custom. It would be cheaper.
 

chrome

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  • Aug 21, 2005
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    Hi,

    I think he said he was going to have the dealer shoot the rifle his yesterday.
    He was online SH yesterday at 553pm.

    Also it may be worth noting....


    This was just posted on the 12th of this month by the OP.

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    tenor.gif
     

    wolfy

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    Yes, after all the fanfare, a failure to update here should be taken as a default admission to shooter error being the determination. Perhaps he will still update, but if it were me I’d have jumped on here the moment I was exonerated to tell y’all to get bent. However, I’m currently left to conclude you were right all along (yeah, I know, you usually are). But DAMN that’s some bad shooting for 50m. If any of the OP’s statements were true about his abilities, I would say it had to be the rifle. Seems there may have been some “overstatements” put forth.
    Oh, and he had to learn the 2nd Rule Of The Hide (Don’t piss-off Theis) the hard way.
    the dealer(importer) did not shoot the rifle. A good shooter did plus my self if Theis was here I would let him shoot it.
    It did the same thing. it did not group.
    shot Hornady 285 grain not a good group.
    shot 300grain Norma much better group but not what I would expect to see from good ammo.
    did load development on site.
    got the group down to about .6
    still have to get things looked at because for the price it should shoot better.
     

    wolfy

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    Something this bad could be right down to incorrect bullet/ammo etc.

    I have a weird feeling it turns out to be a amateur hour issue and the OP never comes back to give us the reason

    He was back on here a couple hours ago and still isn’t replying to his thread

    OP if your out there, we would really appreciate the update
    i am here.
    still testing. got the group smaller with hand loads.
     

    THEIS

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  • Nov 27, 2017
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    Hi,

    Nice to see you getting some improvement.
    So NOTHING has been changed with the rifle or scope right?? Just ammo changes right?
    Nothing was found to be loose and/or moving where it should not be moving and everything is moving where it should be moving?

    Question....
    Were the groups from worst to better in direct correlation to changing from 285gr Hornady to 300gr Norma to handloads to other handloads?

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    wolfy

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    Hi,

    Nice to see you getting some improvement.
    So NOTHING has been changed with the rifle or scope right?? Just ammo changes right?
    Nothing was found to be loose and/or moving where it should not be moving and everything is moving where it should be moving?

    Question....
    Were the groups from worst to better in direct correlation to changing from 285gr Hornady to 300gr Norma to handloads to other handloads?

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    just ammo at this test
    the barrel was taken of and cleaned the contact area.
    That is it.
    Oh we did find that the seating die that i had was bad. concentricity way out.
    So we used their dies. Did 3 round loads changing just powder weight.
    then found a consistent group. (not the best but group about .6)
    changed primer from cci to federal 215 and that improved the speed were getting 2689 fps on the 300 grain.
    Still testing though.
    That is the story up to now.
    oh i also got some Redding dies for it.
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    Now I really want to know what's up with this rig! I can't imagine the grouping being that different from any ammo at 100 yds. I mean, surely there's something else at play here going from the original grouping to .6 MOA.


    @THEIS - what "should" that rifle do with Factory regular ammo? Even cheap as you can find ammo, I would think would still group decent at 100yds???


    Edit- ok, starting to sound reasonable now. I thought there may be something in the barrel that needed to be cleaned out or something like that.
     

    wolfy

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    The plot Thickens!!!

    Now I really want to know what's up with this rig! I can't imagine the grouping being that different from any ammo at 100 yds. I mean, surely there's something else at play here going from the original grouping to .6 MOA.


    @THEIS - what "should" that rifle do with Factory regular ammo? Even cheap as you can find ammo, I would think would still group decent at 100yds???


    Edit- ok, starting to sound reasonable now. I thought there may be something in the barrel that needed to be cleaned out or something like that.
    i said to the dealer/importer that the group is not good enough.
    he organized all this testing and so on. We had one of the 2017/2019 competition 1st shoot it.
    he did say that it was a shit group at 100 yards.
    the thing is that (i was told )AI guarantee a 0.75 if under that it is good enough.
    I think that is bull, for that money it should be a half moa gun, anyway.

    will test this weekend at my range and see how it goes.
    if you have anything you think i should try let me know.
    I still have some 300 grain norma (factory).
    Will do some of the loads we did. one load actually and see how it goes. Will tr and do some radar recording too.
     

    Badshot308

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    just ammo at this test
    the barrel was taken of and cleaned the contact area.
    That is it.
    Oh we did find that the seating die that i had was bad. concentricity way out.
    So we used their dies. Did 3 round loads changing just powder weight.
    then found a consistent group. (not the best but group about .6)
    changed primer from cci to federal 215 and that improved the speed were getting 2689 fps on the 300 grain.
    Still testing though.
    That is the story up to now.
    oh i also got some Redding dies for it.
    When you say .6, are you talking center to center in inches or converting to MOA? At what distance are you shooting at?
     

    wolfy

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    I did not notice an powder residue (i had this question asked) on the fired cases.
    but i did notice an extraction mark on the case. will take pictures and put up for you guys to see.
    it was doing this from the beginning just didn't think much of it then. Now it is marking the Lapua cases.
     

    BuildingConceptsllc

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    i said to the dealer/importer that the group is not good enough.
    he organized all this testing and so on. We had one of the 2017/2019 competition 1st shoot it.
    he did say that it was a shit group at 100 yards.
    the thing is that (i was told )AI guarantee a 0.75 if under that it is good enough.
    I think that is bull, for that money it should be a half moa gun, anyway.

    will test this weekend at my range and see how it goes.
    if you have anything you think i should try let me know.
    I still have some 300 grain norma (factory).
    Will do some of the loads we did. one load actually and see how it goes. Will tr and do some radar recording too.
    I'm not knowledgeable enough to help you at this point but there's several on here that definitely are, and they will. I'd put a video up if you really want some help. I would have a real problem with that gun not shooting better with decent ammon assuming there is not other issue of course.
     
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    Terry Cross

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    if you have anything you think i should try let me know.
    I'm starting to understand why half of this forum is frustrated with this thread.

    You have already been given suggestions to assist in quickly isolating your issue if it is in fact a hardware issue.
    You have not alluded to attempting any of the resolutions suggested.

    Regardless of what ammo you are shooting, .338LM is expensive to shoot yet you continue to throw money downrange w/o specific control changes to your hardware.

    Have you swapped scopes out?
    Have you checked any of the other suggested items?

    If not, why would you continue to throw expensive ammo downrange without an actual plan to isolate and resolve?

    Was your 0.6 MOA grouping one shot group or an average of several with that ammo?

    A person could fire a bunch of groups with a lever action 45-70 and iron sights and statistically stumble into a 0.6 MOA group but that carries no weight in the capabilities of that rifle.

    I understand that you are probably working during the week and don't have time to constantly update here. However since you started this thread looking for assistance, you are somewhat obligated to take action on some of the recommendations. Instead you are coming across as unorganized and running around like a squirrel with random attempts to have the rifle perform to your expectations.

    Get with some type of program to systematically resolve your perceived performance problem (and share it here) or tap out of this thread please.


    ./
     

    wolfy

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    When you say .6, are you talking center to center in inches or converting to MOA? At what distance are you shooting at?
    ok we did 3 shot groups (shoot 3 rounds, load another three alter powder and shoot again) we shot all day.
    it would shoot two shots with in an inch (from center to center) and then the 3rd would pull off a bit and make it about an inch to two inches edge to edge (not center)
    The last test we did is the load that i am going to use this weekend.
    3 shots would just make an inch 1 moa. We measured that group center to center and it was .6 (just over half inch).
    we didn't really care to be exact. just load and see how they grouped.
    did not take an pictures. Will take pictures this weekend.
    i always like to do 5 shot groups but the wanted 3.
    Anyway
     

    Dthomas3523

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    I'm starting to understand why half of this forum is frustrated with this thread.

    You have already been given suggestions to assist in quickly isolating your issue if it is in fact a hardware issue.
    You have not alluded to attempting any of the resolutions suggested.

    Regardless of what ammo you are shooting, .338LM is expensive to shoot yet you continue to throw money downrange w/o specific control changes to your hardware.

    Have you swapped scopes out?
    Have you checked any of the other suggested items?

    If not, why would you continue to throw expensive ammo downrange without an actual plan to isolate and resolve?

    Was your 0.6 MOA grouping one shot group or an average of several with that ammo?

    A person could fire a bunch of groups with a lever action 45-70 and iron sights and statistically stumble into a 0.6 MOA group but that carries no weight in the capabilities of that rifle.

    I understand that you are probably working during the week and don't have time to constantly update here. However since you started this thread looking for assistance, you are somewhat obligated to take action on some of the recommendations. Instead you are coming across as unorganized and running around like a squirrel with random attempts to have the rifle perform to your expectations.

    Get with some type of program to systematically resolve your perceived performance problem (and share it here) or tap out of this thread please.


    ./

    Tis why I’m now a spectator and not a participant in the conversation anymore.

    We are past the point of any data given being of any confidence.
     
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    wolfy

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    Tis why I’m now a spectator and not a participant in the conversation anymore.

    We are past the point of any data given being of any confidence.

    I'm starting to understand why half of this forum is frustrated with this thread.

    You have already been given suggestions to assist in quickly isolating your issue if it is in fact a hardware issue.
    You have not alluded to attempting any of the resolutions suggested.

    Regardless of what ammo you are shooting, .338LM is expensive to shoot yet you continue to throw money downrange w/o specific control changes to your hardware.

    Have you swapped scopes out?
    Have you checked any of the other suggested items?

    If not, why would you continue to throw expensive ammo downrange without an actual plan to isolate and resolve?

    Was your 0.6 MOA grouping one shot group or an average of several with that ammo?

    A person could fire a bunch of groups with a lever action 45-70 and iron sights and statistically stumble into a 0.6 MOA group but that carries no weight in the capabilities of that rifle.

    I understand that you are probably working during the week and don't have time to constantly update here. However since you started this thread looking for assistance, you are somewhat obligated to take action on some of the recommendations. Instead you are coming across as unorganized and running around like a squirrel with random attempts to have the rifle perform to your expectations.

    Get with some type of program to systematically resolve your perceived performance problem (and share it here) or tap out of this thread please.


    ./
    you know what you are wright i should tap out.
    i would like to take this opportunity and thank every for their help.
    let me know how to tap out.
    This is the first time on a forum so if you could let me know how to tap out that would be appreciated.
     
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    wolfy

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    Did this POS AI finally get sorted out?
    still working on it.
    load made got it to about .6 moa
    will try again this weekend different loads.

    The AXMC308 i purchased back in 2017 was the biggest LEMON I've ever owned. Wouldn't hold 2" @ 100m and after alot of frustrating troubleshooting i discovered a big ding on the crown (hidden by the muzzle brake).
    View attachment 7562378

    The Aus AI dealer promised a new replacement barrel and in the meantime had this barrel re-crowned. It still didn't shoot that great after re-crowning, confirmed by the Dealer.
    During the 5 month wait for the new UK barrel I discovered the rifle would not extract live rounds. Also one of the 6 locking lugs was wearing (polished like a mirror) whilst the others were still black. Less than 200rnds total fired. Vidoes and pictures forwarded to the Dealer.

    The replacement barrel from the UK finally arrived, i unboxed it to discover...
    View attachment 7562387
    View attachment 7562385

    I informed the Aus Dealer, returned the rifle for a full refund. Shit happens...

    To the OP, I'd suggest looking over the rifle very closely. But it could also be your fundamentals as others have suggested.

    Now, my current AX338 is the best shooting rifle I've owned and consistently shoots 1/2MOA at 100m. So I'm still an AI fanboy.
    Again, shit happens, no company is immune from fuck ups. It's how they deal with it, is what matters.
    i had a look at the crown and saw a very small dint not as big. I will take a pic and send.
    You can tell me what you think
     

    Krob95

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    you know what you are wright i should tap out.
    i would like to take this opportunity and thank every for their help.
    let me know how to tap out.
    This is the first time on a forum so if you could let me know how to tap out that would be appreciated.
    Step one:

    A257FBBD-4FD8-4F24-9121-56C5C998B853.jpeg

    Step 2:

    E63A633B-796A-413A-88F2-49365F7BBC2F.jpeg

    Step 3:
    98A5BDE7-43A1-43CC-9411-42E9DE92A1CB.png

    Step 4:??????

    Step 5: Profit

    Thanks for coming to my TED talk
     

    nn8734

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    ok we did 3 shot groups (shoot 3 rounds, load another three alter powder and shoot again) we shot all day.
    it would shoot two shots with in an inch (from center to center) and then the 3rd would pull off a bit and make it about an inch to two inches edge to edge (not center)
    The last test we did is the load that i am going to use this weekend.
    3 shots would just make an inch 1 moa. We measured that group center to center and it was .6 (just over half inch).
    we didn't really care to be exact. just load and see how they grouped.
    did not take an pictures. Will take pictures this weekend.
    i always like to do 5 shot groups but the wanted 3.
    Anyway
    Yea I get your obsession over small groups but if further load development didn’t result in any improvement and it consistently shoots .6-.7ish and otherwise functions as it should, no visible defects in the barrel, I’d roll with it.

    Spend your time shooting at the distances that cartridge was meant for vs agonizing over group sizes at 100m.
     

    Dthomas3523

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    Yea I get your obsession over small groups but if further load development didn’t result in any improvement and it consistently shoots .6-.7ish and otherwise functions as it should, no visible defects in the barrel, I’d roll with it.

    Spend your time shooting at the distances that cartridge was meant for vs agonizing over group sizes at 100m.

    Group size @ 100 = minimum group size at distance. (Barring any positive compensation stuff)

    So, if you plan on shooting anything smaller than 1.5moa or so at distance, and you can’t do better than .6-.7......

    You absolutely need to either fix the shooter or fix the load at 100 as you’re just gonna waste ammo at distance. If it turns out to just be a bad barrel, scrap it and get another.

    Most shooters are going to shoot substantially worse at extended distances. So jumping out their with poor load/shooter/barrel is not a good idea.
     

    wolfy

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    The AXMC308 i purchased back in 2017 was the biggest LEMON I've ever owned. Wouldn't hold 2" @ 100m and after alot of frustrating troubleshooting i discovered a big ding on the crown (hidden by the muzzle brake).
    View attachment 7562378

    The Aus AI dealer promised a new replacement barrel and in the meantime had this barrel re-crowned. It still didn't shoot that great after re-crowning, confirmed by the Dealer.
    During the 5 month wait for the new UK barrel I discovered the rifle would not extract live rounds. Also one of the 6 locking lugs was wearing (polished like a mirror) whilst the others were still black. Less than 200rnds total fired. Vidoes and pictures forwarded to the Dealer.

    The replacement barrel from the UK finally arrived, i unboxed it to discover...
    View attachment 7562387
    View attachment 7562385

    I informed the Aus Dealer, returned the rifle for a full refund. Shit happens...

    To the OP, I'd suggest looking over the rifle very closely. But it could also be your fundamentals as others have suggested.

    Now, my current AX338 is the best shooting rifle I've owned and consistently shoots 1/2MOA at 100m. So I'm still an AI fanboy.
    Again, shit happens, no company is immune from fuck ups. It's how they deal with it, is what matters.
    1614096953970.png1614096953970.png

    1614097137355.png
     

    nn8734

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    Group size @ 100 = minimum group size at distance. (Barring any positive compensation stuff)

    So, if you plan on shooting anything smaller than 1.5moa or so at distance, and you can’t do better than .6-.7......

    You absolutely need to either fix the shooter or fix the load at 100 as you’re just gonna waste ammo at distance. If it turns out to just be a bad barrel, scrap it and get another.

    Most shooters are going to shoot substantially worse at extended distances. So jumping out their with poor load/shooter/barrel is not a good idea.
    Yea, you’re right and will admit when I read the .6 group size I was thinking the entirety of the group measured .6 across vs measuring center to center which is what he typed initially (skipped right over it). I normally measure the group size based on what size/diameter object it takes to completely cover it which is not how it’s conventionally measured. A .6”center to center means the group is over an inch wide given .33 caliber bullet diameter and not anywhere near the AXMC’s performance ceiling.

    Seems like small load adjustments should get the rifle shooting per expectations, assuming the shooter himself is sound.
     

    Terry Cross

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    you know what you are wright i should tap out.
    i would like to take this opportunity and thank every for their help.
    let me know how to tap out.
    This is the first time on a forum so if you could let me know how to tap out that would be appreciated.

    Just to be clear (forums, texts and social media are sorely lacking any context) I am not encouraging you to bail on this thread as much as asking you to meet an obligation to the forum.

    To me that obligation is:
    Openly ask for assistance anytime but give enough information so that opinions and ideas can be formed.
    Whenever your work schedule allows enough free time attempt to follow reasonable suggestions from this forum.
    SHARE specifics of your efforts as well as your results. Too much info/details is preferable to us trying to guess distance, changes, etc.......

    This forum should be a welcome environment for new shooters as well as experienced shooters to reach out for help or share new findings.
    Even if someone has been shooting extensively for 50 years, they should remain open to learning new things. If you don't share what you are doing and what the results are, then you are denying us the opportunity to learn from your efforts as well.

    If you are going to "tap out", that is your choice but do not leave simply because of personality clashes.
    If you are going to stay in, then be specific and focused in your efforts as well as reported results even if it is a week between updates.


    ./
     

    wolfy

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    The plot Thickens!!!
    So wait, in the other hemisphere spin drift can actually be an elevation error?

    Another fucking thing that will now keep me up at night.

    eta - Also OP, make 10000% sure that whatever the torque spec is, that you are using a wrench in that torque spec. So instead of like 50 ft/lbs, you aren't using 50 inch/lbs or whatever.
    all good using the inch pounds as spec 49inch pound.
     

    Terry Cross

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    Seems like small load adjustments should get the rifle shooting per expectations, assuming the shooter himself is sound.
    I cannot fathom even the worst load on the planet with exceptionally excessive runout causing the groups the OP posted early in this thread and 50m.

    You would be able to de-link tracers with dents and corrosion on the bullets and still shoot better groups at 50m if the rifle and shooter were in order. LOL...

    ./
     

    wolfy

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    Yea, you’re right and will admit when I read the .6 group size I was thinking the entirety of the group measured .6 across vs measuring center to center which is what he typed initially (skipped right over it). I normally measure the group size based on what size/diameter object it takes to completely cover it which is not how it’s conventionally measured. A .6”center to center means the group is over an inch wide given .33 caliber bullet diameter and not anywhere near the AXMC’s performance ceiling.

    Seems like small load adjustments should get the rifle shooting per expectations, assuming the shooter himself is sound.
    guys i was not shooting the rifle at the test alone.
    the comp guy was mainly . Actually it was three shooting the same gun.
    I cannot fathom even the worst load on the planet with exceptionally excessive runout causing the groups the OP posted early in this thread and 50m.

    You would be able to de-link tracers with dents and corrosion on the bullets and still shoot better groups at 50m if the rifle and shooter were in order. LOL...

    ./
    exactly
     

    nn8734

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    I cannot fathom even the worst load on the planet with exceptionally excessive runout causing the groups the OP posted early in this thread and 50m.

    You would be able to de-link tracers with dents and corrosion on the bullets and still shoot better groups at 50m if the rifle and shooter were in order. LOL...

    ./
    Haha, that group looked like it was shot out of an old school pistol grip mossburg 12 gauge from the hip. I was referring to the .6” group he shot more recently with hand loads as mentioned in his post I quoted.
     
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    wolfy

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    1614099367187.png
    it doesn't look that bad. but it looks like the blast hits it a bit and it is slowly burning it
    just ammo at this test
    the barrel was taken of and cleaned the contact area.
    That is it.
    Oh we did find that the seating die that i had was bad. concentricity way out.
    So we used their dies. Did 3 round loads changing just powder weight.
    then found a consistent group. (not the best but group about .6)
    changed primer from cci to federal 215 and that improved the speed were getting 2689 fps on the 300 grain.
    Still testing though.
    That is the story up to now.
    oh i also got some Redding dies for it.
    Haha, that group looked like it was shot out of an old school pistol grip mossburg 12 gauge from the hip. I was referring to the .6” group he shot more recently with hand loads as mentioned in his post I quoted.
    Just to be clear (forums, texts and social media are sorely lacking any context) I am not encouraging you to bail on this thread as much as asking you to meet an obligation to the forum.

    To me that obligation is:
    Openly ask for assistance anytime but give enough information so that opinions and ideas can be formed.
    Whenever your work schedule allows enough free time attempt to follow reasonable suggestions from this forum.
    SHARE specifics of your efforts as well as your results. Too much info/details is preferable to us trying to guess distance, changes, etc.......

    This forum should be a welcome environment for new shooters as well as experienced shooters to reach out for help or share new findings.
    Even if someone has been shooting extensively for 50 years, they should remain open to learning new things. If you don't share what you are doing and what the results are, then you are denying us the opportunity to learn from your efforts as well.

    If you are going to "tap out", that is your choice but do not leave simply because of personality clashes.
    If you are going to stay in, then be specific and focused in your efforts as well as reported results even if it is a week between updates.


    ./
    i am not able to get online as often as i would like.
    it will probably be more like two weeks before I can answer some times.
    I don't really have much to share yet apart from that others shot the gun and got the same bad results.
    I did get some info about a crown and barrel issue that a member had.
    I had looked at the crown but i was not too sure as what would be not good.
    so I have put some pics up with markings.
    This Saturday i will get some testing done (swap the scope over and see how that goes).
    it is late here now so i will call it a day.
    Did you make sure everything between the action and scope was seated properly before tightening?
    have checked and is no moving at all they are tight
     

    wolfy

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    Jan 31, 2021
    71
    24
    AUS
    Probably a dumb question, but can someone spell out for me how this factors in? (Assuming this has nothing to do with cold shooter).
    it was new so not longer than a week.
    the barrel was clean. just the normal take it to the range and shoot. No run in though
     

    nn8734

    nn8734
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 26, 2013
    2,656
    2,072
    Las Vegas, NV
    It appears that the threading on your barrel is substantially different than mine.

    Mine is a Dave Tooley .338 LM barrel made for the PSR.

    Our barrels are supposed to be interchangeable, but the treading on yours looks different than any PSR or AXMC barrel I’ve seen.
    His pic is showing the crown, yours is the shank/tenon
     

    FF05

    RAR Veteran
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 14, 2017
    88
    287
    Australia
    Stop wasting your time with 285-300g projectiles, your rifle clearly doesn't like them. I tried 285ELDs in my AX338 and they shot like shit (almost 1.5-2" at 100m).

    Factory 250g Swiss RUAG, my AX338 does this all day, every day...
    20191102_160616.jpg
    Screenshot_20191102-100948_Gallery.jpg