Winchester M70

308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    Locked away.....

    Will pick it up tomorrow.
    giphy.gif
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    That barrel looks fatter than I recall.

    It looks like a cannon in a chippendale furniture carriage.

    Still feels pretty "svelt" though....little nose heavy but not excessively so.
     
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    TriggerJerk!

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    Have a look at this for some info and contacts (if you haven’t already):

     
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    j-huskey

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    My Van Orden is a little nose-heavy like you describe. Those wooden stocks aren't as weighty as a McMillan....

    But they sure hold nice in a field hold position, being nose heavy, and that stock just fits the hand soooo nice, and it just rolls right back into you when it goes boom, and when you ride the recoil back down, somehow, it's still pointing "right there"...
    I love those historical tools of the trade...

    Here's my 1937 with a new hunting scope... sorry PM, not trying to steal...

    20210210_170938.jpg

    Then, thanks to this thread, 63 had to come out this a.m....
    That 11 on the turret means it's on 26 minutes...
    20210211_093853.jpg

    And at 800 with 168's with vvN550... 15mph twitchy..

    20210221_104914.jpg
     
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    Skunk

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    But they sure hold nice in a field hold position, being nose heavy, and that stock just fits the hand soooo nice, and it just rolls right back into you when it goes boom, and when you ride the recoil back down, somehow, it's still pointing "right there"...
    I love those historical tools of the trade...

    I couldn't agree more. There's nothing like an old Winchester 70.
     
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    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    But they sure hold nice in a field hold position, being nose heavy, and that stock just fits the hand soooo nice, and it just rolls right back into you when it goes boom, and when you ride the recoil back down, somehow, it's still pointing "right there"...
    I love those historical tools of the trade...

    Here's my 1937 with a new hunting scope... sorry PM, not trying to steal...

    View attachment 7562914

    Then, thanks to this thread, 63 had to come out this a.m....
    That 11 on the turret means it's on 26 minutes...
    View attachment 7562921

    And at 800 with 168's with vvN550... 15mph twitchy..

    View attachment 7562927

    I love the "stealing".

    Man that 37 looks to be brand new...very nice...Id be afraid to hunt it but it is what it was meant to do.

    I hope mine will shoot as nice as the 63, actually the rifle probably will, the question is will the shooter.

    Probably take two hours at end of shift on Tuesday and sight in the irons. I want to actually take the time to set all the screws and have a good zero so after I pull the slide and replace it with a blank if needs be in teh future I can reverse it and expect the irons to shoot.

    Ill mount the Unertl for my first scope, maybe only scope.

    Ive been toying with the idea of either using my Weaver T-10 or a Leupold M40 repro.

    Putting a mil dot reticle in the Weaver would make an incredible match if not Leupold would be next best. Still though Unertl for the cool.
     
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    j-huskey

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    56 has the unertl. It's fun to shoot a little, then its not...
    Std mounts, 100 to 600 ok... just have to add wind adjustments as you go up, when the tube "shrinks away" from the adjuster when moving up. That's annoying at times.
    If I want to shoot 600 to 1000, I have to change the rear scope mount to a higher one, and that gets old....

    Since I love shooting these tools, it's why I have the leupold on 63. 63 is on barrel 4... such as it is.
    37 and 56 are original barrels. 37 goes out a couple times a year, just to remember. And PM, the stock is a late 50's refinish.

    56 and unertl. Been here b4 on sh.

    Screenshot_20200904-080041_Chrome.jpg
     

    Mister Ridge

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    I don't miss my specific Winchester but I miss the way it felt in my hands. The McMillan Marksman stock felt great and the ballance was awesome for a "heavy barrel" rifle.

    Very nice rifles Mr. Mclaine and Huskey.
     

    Charger442

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    But they sure hold nice in a field hold position, being nose heavy, and that stock just fits the hand soooo nice, and it just rolls right back into you when it goes boom, and when you ride the recoil back down, somehow, it's still pointing "right there"...
    I love those historical tools of the trade...

    Here's my 1937 with a new hunting scope... sorry PM, not trying to steal...

    View attachment 7562914

    Then, thanks to this thread, 63 had to come out this a.m....
    That 11 on the turret means it's on 26 minutes...
    View attachment 7562921

    And at 800 with 168's with vvN550... 15mph twitchy..

    View attachment 7562927
    What's the side mount rear sight base you have there? Is that a redfield base?
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    What's the side mount rear sight base you have there? Is that a redfield base?


    Lyman 48 WSH.

    I had a Lyman 48 WS on there but came across a high....there is a little bit of dog leg on the aperture arm to allow a bit more range with a heavy barrel rifle.

    I still have a beautiful condition Lyman 48 WS now to figure what I will do with.
     
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    Charger442

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  • Nov 2, 2010
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    Lyman 48 WSH.

    I had a Lyman 48 WS on there but came across a high....there is a little bit of dog leg on the aperture arm to allow a bit more range with a heavy barrel rifle.

    I still have a beautiful condition Lyman 48 WS now to figure what I will do with.
    I might be interested if you want to sell
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I might be interested if you want to sell


    Research them up and see if it what truly interests you.

    I want to make sure my WH is all working before I sell the other off.

    My WJS is in better shape than the one pictured on the rifle, a little bit later in production, nice target knobs not the craptastic hunter series stuff. Should be a picture of it somewhere in these pages.

    Nice thing about the short slide WJS 48s is no impact to a standard stock. Some others may require notching wood.

    Im really happy with myself for finding a short slide blank so I can remove the aperture arm and keep the base clean of debris. Found it while recovering from an appendectomy with a lot of time to spare......made that whole procedure worth while.

    At 100 yards wearing the Unertl I cant keep the eye aperture mounted on its 100 yard zero it will interfere. The blank will solve that as it was meant to be done.

    Someone should machine some blanks out of aluminum and make a buck or two
     
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    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Moderator...I nominate this thread as a sticky in the Vintage Sniper Rifles forum.

    Great pre-64 M70 information and build pictures here.


    Just keep in mind my rifle is a tribute gun only......1952 or so receiver that I added a pre war safety to, no clip slot, bedding, pillars, lots of incorrect.

    @cplnorton really added some great knowledge n here though to help me get the camouflage as close as I could.

    Im really loving the blue on the new barrel.....think it's a different spec than the original.....almost translucent allowing bare metal to shine through looks weather worn.....I like it.
     

    TriggerJerk!

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    I think there are enough of us Winchester fans in here to warrant a sticky, even if not this particular thread.
    @pmclaine @Skunk the above is precisely my point. There was historic information provided in this thread in response to questions and opinions about your M70 build project. As a result, there is a weath of M70 information here to warrant this thread as a sticky.

    That does not mean I want the current thread to stop. Quite the opposite. I hope we can have a sticky devoted to pre-64 M70’s and their clones, which will grow over time. I think M70’s, and similar CRF rifles, are awesome. And as the historical discussion within this thread demonstrates, there is a great deal of information on the sniper use of these rifles yet to be uncovered.

    I therefore believe the thread meets the informational repository qualifications to be a sticky within this forum.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    @pmclaine

    did you ever decide on a sling? early on you were looking at the 1907 or a 60's seatbelt. what did you end up going with?


    Its in the car today wearing a 1960s seatbelt.......easier to use.......lots of length for adjustment. Noticed the bottom clip may be a bit "open" for the Winchester commercial 1.25" sling loops but that could also be the clip being out of adjustment.

    Installed my Triad stockpack but found it made the comb too tall for iron sights....Ill install once the Unertl goes on.

    Going to use a circle front cite aperture for sight in today. My front sight globe is a Winchester 105A. Ive been lucky to find all the available insert options - small circle, medium circle and post.

    1614088064396.png


    The stupid inserts are impossible to find. A Lyman 77 is the way to go up front.
     
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    j-huskey

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    To me, just me, this is the McLaine rifles daddy, in action.
    And whatever sling this is.. well....

    20210223_081827.jpg

    I love these rifles..... to me, the McLaine rifle is the perfect shooter rifle..

    Screenshot_20210223-083833_Gallery.jpg
     
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    pmclaine

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    To me, just me, this is the McLaine rifles daddy, in action.
    And whatever sling this is.. well....

    View attachment 7564517

    I love these rifles..... to me, the McLaine rifle is the perfect shooter rifle..

    View attachment 7564528

    I think that rifle is a Douglas rebarrel......no front sight dovetail or block.

    Mine differs from "clone" in that regard.

    T minus 3 hours to first rounds.
     

    j-huskey

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    I think that rifle is a Douglas rebarrel......no front sight dovetail or block.

    Mine differs from "clone" in that regard.

    T minus 3 hours to first rounds.

    Winchester rebarrel with the National Match barrel drilled for mounts, rather than dovetails. I've shot out a couple of those barrels back in the day, and sold them at gun shows for $100.00... kinda wish I'd kept at least one... but...

    Waiting on pics from T -....
     

    pmclaine

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    P1010553[1].JPG

    P1010554[1].JPG

    Got on paper at 25 with Winchester 150 grain soft points.

    First 6 at 100 with 150 grain soft points...

    P1010555[1].JPG

    Switch to FGMM 168s and play with sights....

    P1010556[1].JPG

    Last 10 shots of FGMM....

    P1010557[1].JPG

    Everything functioned fine. I added 1/2 inch of elevation before casing the rifle.

    Love the Lyman sights, like little computers, slip the turrets, a zero stop, you can zero windage.

    I think I need a higher Front sight Block though. Im losing 1/2 my possible 60 MOA of elevation adjustment...

    P1010558[1].JPG

    P1010559[1].JPG

    P1010560[1].JPG
     

    pmclaine

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    I have hundreds of bases so can find one that will work.

    Ill measure what I have for front base height.

    Ill measure distance from peep to center of FSB.

    We will use magic to figure out how much taller the FSB has to be to equal 30 MOA at 100 yards.

    It cant be as hard as earning a doctorate.
     

    pre64win

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    Ill measure what I have for front base height.

    Ill measure distance from peep to center of FSB.

    We will use magic to figure out how much taller the FSB has to be to equal 30 MOA at 100 yards.

    It cant be as hard as earning a doctorate.
    I wish those groups were tighter, but will wait for you to tell me you have it dialed in, or are shooting with the scope before I worry too much.

    Also, do you want me to send you a taller front sight (Lyman 77)? I am happy to send it out at no charge. Alternatively, we have a new gunsmith starting on Monday who is a retired Army armorer. He can get it set up for you with a taller front block that is properly regulated. You are right that it shouldn't take a PhD, and yet I am an engineer and can tell you it is not as easy as it seems like it should be! ;)

    Glad to see it shooting again!
     
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    pmclaine

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    I wish those groups were tighter, but will wait for you to tell me you have it dialed in, or are shooting with the scope before I worry too much.

    Also, do you want me to send you a taller front sight (Lyman 77)? I am happy to send it out at no charge. Alternatively, we have a new gunsmith starting on Monday who is a retired Army armorer. He can get it set up for you with a taller front block that is properly regulated. You are right that it shouldn't take a PhD, and yet I am an engineer and can tell you it is not as easy as it seems like it should be! ;)

    Glad to see it shooting again!


    Im rusty...not shooting as much these days and the eyes are not what they used to be.......excuses though this rifle will make tighter groups.

    Current sight base is .204 tall over the barrel. From peep I get 28.5 inches to center of FSB.


    image.jpg

    Getting a cleaning....

    image.jpg
     

    pre64win

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    Let me see what I have for a lower front globe sight. Measure the distance from the base of your 105 to the center of the sight insert.
     

    pre64win

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    And for what it’s worth - I don’t have a front block that is enough lower to make much difference. Only about 0.025” lower. I think your best bet is to find a much lower front sight.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    If you wanna lower that rear sight, you need a LOWER front base.


    Man where were you when I made that mistake with that fat chick in the bar?


    From mating area where front sight sits on the front sight block to center of globe is .475.

    It looks like it's a pretty low sight, I think originally for Win 75T .22 caliber.

    Im not married to it.....if there is a lower sight block and a lower Lyman 77 to take some of the awkward height out of the rear I'll do it.

    If I should ever decide to shoot irons on a KD target at Devens all I want is 600 meters.
     
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    pmclaine

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    Unsure if Lyman 77 comes in a lower height than R.

    Some comparisons between a 77 and a 105A.......


    I disagree with the Lyman being a better made globe.....only better because inserts are available.

    The Winchester sight is sweet with the medieval knurled knob set tight to the sight base.
     

    j-huskey

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    I believe I have the base you need. I'm not where I can send pics right now, but, I'm pretty sure I've got it.
    I know I have several of the lowest mounts they made, and they are lower than the one in your pic.
    Let me get squared away, should b able to put it in the mail tomorrow.

    These are your height options....

    Screenshot_20210223-183624_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20210223-183634_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20210223-183701_Chrome.jpg

    Pretty much std from 1936 to now.
     
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    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    The lowest 77 you have Justin at .445 would be +\- .03 inches lower than what I have......

    I don't think there is a sight block lower than what I have that would still allow an unmodified globe dovetail to fit.....Steve Earle has a 3/16 (.1875).

    .03 lower sight at 3600 inches with a 28.5 inch radius should equal about 3.7 inches of impact change.....

    Does that sound right?

    Wonder how that equates on my rear Lyman 48 - 14 to 15, 1/4 MOA adjustments down?

    Can you guys confirm the math while I put my socks back on?
     

    j-huskey

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    I ain't a math person.... nwas...
    But I will give you a .1875 that you can use to experiment and find out.

    There is a sight chart in the 56 shooters Bible that tells the height poi changes, but, I'm not gonna be near it for maybe a day or so.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    View attachment 7565089

    Here is what I have. Top to bottom:

    Lyman 77 - 0.786”
    Winchester - 0.492”
    Redfield - 0.453”
    Lyman 77 - 0.445”

    If you want one of these, I’ll ship it out.

    I'd insist on paying.

    Perhaps the .445 sight and J-huskys lower base will give me enough to at least set the zero indicator and allow the zero stop screw to hit the receiver block.

    I probably need what would equate to 20 MOA Im guessing.
     

    pmclaine

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    I ain't a math person.... nwas...
    But I will give you a .1875 that you can use to experiment and find out.

    There is a sight chart in the 56 shooters Bible that tells the height poi changes, but, I'm not gonna be near it for maybe a day or so.



    Very helpful.

    Steve Earle is local and he makes a 3/16 inch block and he will have the screws. I'll call him to see if he has a base in stock. If not I may take you up on that.

    Thank you.
     
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