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Wow, this one is sad.

Very sad. It is easy to see and understand how this could happen.
 
If you are involved in a self defense situation after the fact you need to recognize the police will be there shortly, and they don’t know you are not a criminal with a gun who just murdered someone. You need to put your gun down, and you need to be prepared to be cuffed, and things to be sorted out only after you are detained.
 
If you are involved in a self defense situation after the fact you need to recognize the police will be there shortly, and they don’t know you are not a criminal with a gun who just murdered someone. You need to put your gun down, and you need to be prepared to be cuffed, and things to be sorted out only after you are detained.
Agreed. Nevertheless, unless the firearm is pointed at the officer or the suspect is actively shooting at least one command to drop the weapon is in order. I’m inclined to think Mr. Hurley at least had his weapon pointed in a safe direction once the threat was neutralized.

Could go either way. We need more details.

On another note, I wonder if we should prepare for more riots? Or if we’re going to see another $30m payout to the victims family?
 
Of course we don’t know the details but it sure as shit does not sound like deadly force was authorized if he was just holding the rifle. Maybe the man who was shot after killing the murderer was dumb enough to be holding the rifle in a way that was threatening such as low or high ready, but it doesn't seem likely. The officer who shot him needs to be seriously evaluated. I understand it is a shitty situation but damn…
 
Agreed. Nevertheless, unless the firearm is pointed at the officer or the suspect is actively shooting at least one command to drop the weapon is in order. I’m inclined to think Mr. Hurley at least had his weapon pointed in a safe direction once the threat was neutralized.

Could go either way. We need more details.

On another note, I wonder if we should prepare for more riots? Or if we’re going to see another $30m payout to the victims family?
Well it looked like a white guy who was killed by the officer so more than likely it will result in more gun control and more woke policies in out government and school systems.
 
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If you are involved in a self defense situation after the fact you need to recognize the police will be there shortly, and they don’t know you are not a criminal with a gun who just murdered someone. You need to put your gun down, and you need to be prepared to be cuffed, and things to be sorted out only after you are detained.
and have USCCA insurance as your backup
 
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Agreed. Nevertheless, unless the firearm is pointed at the officer or the suspect is actively shooting at least one command to drop the weapon is in order. I’m inclined to think Mr. Hurley at least had his weapon pointed in a safe direction once the threat was neutralized.

Could go either way. We need more details.

On another note, I wonder if we should prepare for more riots? Or if we’re going to see another $30m payout to the victims family?
Paying the victims family is not enough for the pain caused, we dont even know how it will later turn out, we still need more details like you have said. I wish he made it alive and not dead
 
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Paying the victims family is not enough for the pain caused, we dont even know how it will later turn out, we still need more details like you have said. I wish he made it alive and not dead
I was stirring the pot since Floyd’s family walked away with around $30m.

If Floyds life was worth a $30m settlement, Hurleys must be worth somewhere in the vicinity of…. Eleventy Billion? Not sure how that calculation works….

The whole situation sucks. Hurley went out as a hero though. Many of us will die in a hospital bed with a tube in our dick, unable to wipe our own ass. I like to think that wherever Hurley is, he’s in a better place and he’s at peace with things. We need more men like him and should be honoring his sacrifice before using him as a political talking point. For that I apologize.

We die twice. Once when we physically pass and again when someone utters our name for the last time. Remember his name.
 
I'm sorry the good guy got killed. Reading his bio, he was a stand-up patriot.

But why in TF would anyone reach down and pick up the murder weapon? If it were still in reach of the shooter I would do like in the movies, approach with caution and kick it away. I would then stand way back and try and look as harmless as possible as police show up.
 
If you are involved in a self defense situation after the fact you need to recognize the police will be there shortly, and they don’t know you are not a criminal with a gun who just murdered someone. You need to put your gun down, and you need to be prepared to be cuffed, and things to be sorted out only after you are detained.

It goes further than that - if you draw a gun in public, even as a "good guy", you need to understand that this might result in your death. That's even more true if a cop just got shot, but it could apply to any situation where there is substantial confusion - mass shooting, big brawl, whatever. If your gun comes out, it's big-boy rules time, and there will not be a chance to call a time-out and explain that you're one of the good guys. The police will show up, they will not ask questions, they will simply attempt to kill anyone who is holding a weapon. Go ahead and debate "department policy" or whatever; it doesn't matter, because you're dead.

Keep all this in mind when you decide to intervene in matters that do not directly affect you or your loved ones. Put more bluntly: are you willing to die for a stranger? There is no shame in answering that question in either way or even with a conditional "it depends", but think about this long and hard before the day comes.

For a long time, Gabe Suarez has advocated that a civilian draw, get their work done, and then re-holster ASAP to avoid such a misunderstanding. This obviously suggests the deployment of a concealed pistol or maybe a PDW, and not the AR carbine you just grabbed from your vehicle... or the one you just took from the dead shooter.

FWIW, I'm not real keen on jumping all over the cop. He showed up at at the scene of a fellow officer's murder, saw someone with a rifle (which was likely a superior weapon to what the officer was carrying), and a combination of autopilot and adrenaline took over from that point. So I like the shoot-first-ask-questions-later mentality in these situations? No, but I don't like a lot of other things about the world, either, and so far that hasn't changed reality.

More on the hero-slash-victim:


Say what we will about kids, anarchists, and social activists - I want more people like this in my community.
 
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It goes further than that - if you draw a gun in public, even as a "good guy", you need to understand that this might result in your death. That's even more true if a cop just got shot, but it could apply to any situation where there is substantial confusion - mass shooting, big brawl, whatever. If your gun comes out, it's big-boy rules time, and there will not be a chance to call a time-out and explain that you're one of the good guys. The police will show up, they will not ask questions, they will simply attempt to kill anyone who is holding a weapon. Go ahead and debate "department policy" or whatever; it doesn't matter, because you're dead.

Keep all this in mind when you decide to intervene in matters that do not directly affect you or your loved ones. Put more bluntly: are you willing to die for a stranger? There is no shame in answering that question in either way or even with a conditional "it depends", but think about this long and hard before the day comes.

For a long time, Gabe Suarez has advocated that a civilian draw, get their work done, and then re-holster ASAP to avoid such a misunderstanding. This obviously suggests the deployment of a concealed pistol or maybe a PDW, and not the AR carbine you just grabbed from your vehicle.

FWIW, I'm not real keen on jumping all over the cop. He showed up at at the scene of a fellow officer's murder, saw someone with a rifle (which was likely a superior weapon to what the officer was carrying), and a combination of autopilot and adrenaline took over from that point. So I like the shoot-first-ask-questions-later mentality in these situations? No, but I don't like a lot of other things about the world, either, and so far that hasn't changed reality.

More on the hero-slash-victim:


Say what we will about kids, anarchists, and social activists - I want more people like this in my community.
There's no one to blame here except the bad guy. Innocent mistakes were made, not that Hurley shouldn't have intervened and did the needful, but he should never have picked up the AR. It cost him his life.

GTF back and if you don't think there are any more shooters or threats, unload and lock open you gun if it's a semi-auto, set it down and step away from it, put your open hands up when police make entry.
 
It goes further than that - if you draw a gun in public, even as a "good guy", you need to understand that this might result in your death. That's even more true if a cop just got shot, but it could apply to any situation where there is substantial confusion - mass shooting, big brawl, whatever. If your gun comes out, it's big-boy rules time, and there will not be a chance to call a time-out and explain that you're one of the good guys. The police will show up, they will not ask questions, they will simply attempt to kill anyone who is holding a weapon. Go ahead and debate "department policy" or whatever; it doesn't matter, because you're dead.

Keep all this in mind when you decide to intervene in matters that do not directly affect you or your loved ones. Put more bluntly: are you willing to die for a stranger? There is no shame in answering that question in either way or even with a conditional "it depends", but think about this long and hard before the day comes.

For a long time, Gabe Suarez has advocated that a civilian draw, get their work done, and then re-holster ASAP to avoid such a misunderstanding. This obviously suggests the deployment of a concealed pistol or maybe a PDW, and not the AR carbine you just grabbed from your vehicle.

FWIW, I'm not real keen on jumping all over the cop. He showed up at at the scene of a fellow officer's murder, saw someone with a rifle (which was likely a superior weapon to what the officer was carrying), and a combination of autopilot and adrenaline took over from that point. So I like the shoot-first-ask-questions-later mentality in these situations? No, but I don't like a lot of other things about the world, either, and so far that hasn't changed reality.

More on the hero-slash-victim:


Say what we will about kids, anarchists, and social activists - I want more people like this in my community.


SOP for armed citizens during a 'high adrenaline' situation should be set forth nice and clear.

1. TRAIN WITH AND CARRY A CONCEALABLE PISTOL.

2. TRAIN to make shots ACCURATELY up to 75-120 yards.

3. If the need for engagement occurs, ie., mass shooter/terrorist ID'd, make the shot from concealment. Behind a vehicle, building pillar, inside a building, etc...

4. Re-holster and go back into grey man mode IMMEDIATELY after threat is neutralized.

5. You have TWO options now. If you are in a gun-friendly region, you may identify yourself to responding officers ONLY after your weapon is put away, invisible, and your HANDS ARE UP AND AWAY FROM YOU. If you are in an anti-gun liberal shithole, you may have to just quietly and quickly LEAVE the AO after dirtnapping the perp and keep your mouth shut. Making the shot from distance and from concealment greatly increases your chances of quiet and successful exfiltration from the hot zone if you feel that it is in your best interests to just leave and remain unidentified.
 
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SOP for armed citizens during a 'high adrenaline' situation should be set forth nice and clear.

1. TRAIN WITH AND CARRY A CONCEALABLE PISTOL.

2. TRAIN to make shots ACCURATELY up to 75-120 yards.

3. If the need for engagement occurs, ie., mass shooter/terrorist ID'd, make the shot from concealment. Behind a vehicle, building pillar, inside a building, etc...

4. Re-holster and go back into grey man mode IMMMEDIATELY after threat is neutralized.

5. You have TWO options now. If you are in a gun-friendly region, you may identify yourself to responding officers ONLY after your weapon is put away, invisible, and your HANDS ARE UP AND AWAY FROM YOU. If you are in an anti-gun liberal shithole, you may have to just quietly and quickly LEAVE the AO after dirtnapping the perp and keep your mouth shut. Making the shot from distance and from concealment greatly increases your chances of quiet and successful exfiltration from the hot zone if you feel that it is in your best interests to just leave and remain unidentified.
Mostly good advice but In any urban environment there will be so many cameras you'll be recognized. Privacy is dead. Best to hang out and be careful.

Rural is different...bring the backhoe.
 
75 to 120 yards with a concealed carry pistol???? That's not a responsible shot ever in a public environment in a high stress situation. That's how innocent bystanders get shot and killed.


I forgot to clarify: That range is ONLY for your training goals. If you can make consistent 100+ yard shots on targets at the range, your chances of making a clean shot on an armed threat IRL greatly increases. Of course, if you are in a situation where an armed threat is surrounded by innocent bystanders, I would NEVER suggest engaging. Engage ONLY if you have a clear shot. Now in the case of, lets say, the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack where you are at a 2nd floor window and you see the scumbags wielding AKs running down the street with no other potential obstructions in sight, GO for it. All of the pistols and revolvers that I own are capable of carrying the range, and I practice to make sure that I can too.
 
I'm no expert in this, but I might consider leaving immediately and getting to my closest lawyer's house or office. Unless your state law requires you to render aid. Hanging around trying to help some more may result in you dying of lead poising and nothing good to you could come from hanging out.

Talk me out of it!
Throw your weapon at least 15 yards away and lay on your belly with arms and legs spread out like Davincis Vitruvian man.

Let them cuff you and calmly state that you were in the vicinity of an active shooter and you took out the threat. Personally, I’d let them know that you’re aware they’re following protocol, but on the advice of your attorney you decline to answer questions outside of his presence.

Police can’t make deals or negotiate on behalf of prosecutors. Nothing you say can help your situation in the long run. It can only hurt. Just STFU and wait for your attorney and make sure no one in their right mind can perceive you as an immediate threat.
 
I'm no expert in this, but I might consider leaving immediately and getting to my closest lawyer's house or office. Unless your state law requires you to render aid. Hanging around trying to help some more may result in you dying of lead poising and nothing good to you could come from hanging out.

Talk me out of it!

That really might be the safest thing.
Conceal back up, go grey, get the hell out of dodge, contact your lawyer and have them work out a time when both of you can go down to the local police station to make a statement.
 
Let them cuff you and calmly state that you were in the vicinity of an active shooter and you took out the threat. Personally, I’d let them know that you’re aware they’re following protocol, but on the advice of your attorney you decline to answer questions outside of his presence.

Just go prone and don't say anything.
 
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Sadly this teaches us all that if we get involved to something of this level, we better know what we are doing, both mechanically and legally. We don't take a shot unless it s a clear shot with no possibility to harm innocent bystanders. Then after the shot we better know the law better than any cop patrolling his beat. Taking the shot to neutralize the perp is great, but the best thing to do after that is to unload your firearm, set it down and walk away and then sit down on the ground and wait for the police. Standing while carrying a rifle when the cops arrive to a shots fired call is stupid. I'm not syaing the guy is stupid, he just did a stupid thing.

Now the cops have some potential culpability in this man's death too. Since I don't know the facts, I won't comment, but coming out shooting without knowing what's going on is unprofessional. But maybe there are extenuating circumstances there too.