CCI SV works great in every 22 rifle ive ever shot it in. If you can find some of the old federal lightning ammo it shoots very well for HV ammo. SK standard plus, rifle match and Eley contact are next best option in my opinion if ya wanna spend a little more!
- Thread starter OldSalty
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My father swears is good, but not as consistent as his cheap Geco.
I find myself adding it to my online cart, but never finishing the order. I'll buy some eventually, but my SK Standard Plus is cheap and performs amazingly out of all my rifles. I'm VERY lucky in that regard
Geco, Norma, Prime are all relabeled RWS/Ruag production.
Tried Aguila products across a chronograph.
Not impressed, not at all
Tried Aguila products across a chronograph.
Not impressed, not at all
How does this relabeling process work? Does Geco have a distribution agreement with RWS, or are they RWS' in house brand to sell "factory seconds" at a lower price?
And for the purposes of this thread, if Geco is relabeled RWS or (to use one I know) Wolf 22lr is relabeled Eley, does that mean that Geco/Wolf are cheap bulk compared to RWS/Eley?
It's a business contract.
We will pay you this much per cartridge and it needs to meet these specifications.
Both sides agree on price and specs, delivery and payment schedules.
Look at the cost per cartridge, you know the comparable product under the original labeling.
Example... FiocchiUSA SV 22lr is relabeled CCI SV, at 2 cents more per cartridge.
Cheaper to have CCI make it than to pay the 30% import duties on ordnance.
We will pay you this much per cartridge and it needs to meet these specifications.
Both sides agree on price and specs, delivery and payment schedules.
Look at the cost per cartridge, you know the comparable product under the original labeling.
Example... FiocchiUSA SV 22lr is relabeled CCI SV, at 2 cents more per cartridge.
Cheaper to have CCI make it than to pay the 30% import duties on ordnance.
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It’s pretty good for the money but it’s only half as accurate as the cci SV in the guns I’ve tested and it’s not half the price so I prolly won’t be buying anymore!
most of my guns like RWS ammo (pistol match is the best of the “cheaper” ammo for my guns). Most hate Aguila match ammo because I usually get one or two crazy fliers (1/2-1” off from the rest of the group and it doesn’t happen with other ammo).
I hear ya' Frank.
I gave the entire Aguila line of rimfire a try.
They may be using the old Eley priming machinery
but I'm thinking something got lost in translation.
ES was poor, cartridges had multiple variations of visible defects, and then there were case ruptures.
I really don't like case ruptures.
Not good for me or my rifles.
I gave the entire Aguila line of rimfire a try.
They may be using the old Eley priming machinery
but I'm thinking something got lost in translation.
ES was poor, cartridges had multiple variations of visible defects, and then there were case ruptures.
I really don't like case ruptures.
Not good for me or my rifles.
I had the same problems with the unexplained fliers. I would have 2-3 go in a small group then one way outside. Glad I didn’t buy a big lot!
Let me know what you think. So far I've found my 455 to like the Geco Rifle more than the Geco Match.
Unexplained flyers? No, those are strays.
Strays are easily explained. Seriously.
Try this, it'll be slightly different from y'er normal routine.
Instead of just loading mags as fast as possible,
or grabbing from the box to chamber the next shot quickly,
use Mark I eyeball and look at each cartridge individually.
Pretend it's one of y'er center fire handloads and critique the cartridge.
Is it visibly uniform in appearance, or can you differentiate from the next/ previous cartridge? Why?
Does it show identifiable scratches, dents, dings, chips,
variations in drive band widths, groove widths?
Is the bullet seated square to the case mouth or show angled seating?
Most important, is there bullet material compressed down past the case mouth on to the brass.
Start inspecting your rimfire cartridges before using, those strays are easily explained.
Would you expect a 223 that looked like it was dropped on the deck, kicked around for a week, picked up and chambered
to fly the same trajectory as the rest of it's brethren, pristine from the loading press?
This is bulk ammo we are discussing, most of it looks like it was beat to snot
while being assembled on the production line.
Strays are easily explained. Seriously.
Try this, it'll be slightly different from y'er normal routine.
Instead of just loading mags as fast as possible,
or grabbing from the box to chamber the next shot quickly,
use Mark I eyeball and look at each cartridge individually.
Pretend it's one of y'er center fire handloads and critique the cartridge.
Is it visibly uniform in appearance, or can you differentiate from the next/ previous cartridge? Why?
Does it show identifiable scratches, dents, dings, chips,
variations in drive band widths, groove widths?
Is the bullet seated square to the case mouth or show angled seating?
Most important, is there bullet material compressed down past the case mouth on to the brass.
Start inspecting your rimfire cartridges before using, those strays are easily explained.
Would you expect a 223 that looked like it was dropped on the deck, kicked around for a week, picked up and chambered
to fly the same trajectory as the rest of it's brethren, pristine from the loading press?
This is bulk ammo we are discussing, most of it looks like it was beat to snot
while being assembled on the production line.
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Thank you for that, I’ll try that with the last box I have of the Aguila and see how much it changes the group size! Rarely have this problem with the cci standard and sk stuff
Like mentioned prior, all depends what your shooting, I shoot some steel challenge and both my rifle and pistol run the thunderbolt well, I get it for about 15$ per 500 and it almost always goes bang, really the most important thing in SC, I have actually never shot it out of my vudoo to see how it does. If I take the time to go for accuracy I usually just shoot the ammo that is better known as being consistent, I have shot CCI SV and Aguila just to warm the barrel, they are typically about .85 at 50. Then switch to something like center-x and sk long range match and get .20 groups. I have fun doing both just depending on what I’m wanting to chase that day, speed or accuracy.
Just got my order delivered which included the 4 bricks of Geco Match. On initial inspection it looks pretty good. Took some random rounds from each brick and inspected much like @justin amateur posted above. Look good, no dents/dings in the cases, bullet seating looks good not loose and the bullets themselves look uniform no scratches or machining marks.
They are a bit greasy (lubed), as seems to be the case with a few "match" rounds - at least in my experience. My Eley match was the same way...
But the real results will be in how they perform.
Will find out this weekend with the 10/22 and the 455 used as test rifles.
They are a bit greasy (lubed), as seems to be the case with a few "match" rounds - at least in my experience. My Eley match was the same way...
But the real results will be in how they perform.
Will find out this weekend with the 10/22 and the 455 used as test rifles.
Will also need to batch test some ammo, currently am using RWS GECO in a Fedderson 10/22 barrel. No real reason why I am using it other than I grabbed it first. My selection of bulk Ammo to choose from, purchased on sale in the past:
RWS GECO Semi-Auto
CCI STD Vel
Aguila STD Vel
Aguila Pistol Match
Winchester Dynapoint
RWS GECO Semi-Auto
CCI STD Vel
Aguila STD Vel
Aguila Pistol Match
Winchester Dynapoint
The best bulk ammo for me has always been Federal Automatch
A continuation of the pics @justin amateur posted above...
Below are 3 brands of 40gr LRN. Which of the pics do you think match these 3 brands?
-Eley Match (black box)
-Geco Match
-Federal Auto Match (loose bulk pack)
Below are 3 brands of 40gr LRN. Which of the pics do you think match these 3 brands?
-Eley Match (black box)
-Geco Match
-Federal Auto Match (loose bulk pack)
Ball peen effect, canted shoulders says #1 is Fed.
Smooth round nose clean crimp shows #2 is an RWS product.
Dimple tip tells me #3 is Eley.
I've noticed some lots from Eley, the flat of the dimple isn't square to the centerline of the cartridges.
Those don't fly as consistently as those that are square.
Asymmetic projectiles don't track well.
Crap, I just realized, I didn't have to think about it.
I just knew. It's possible I've spent way too much time testing and inspecting rimfire ammo.
Smooth round nose clean crimp shows #2 is an RWS product.
Dimple tip tells me #3 is Eley.
I've noticed some lots from Eley, the flat of the dimple isn't square to the centerline of the cartridges.
Those don't fly as consistently as those that are square.
Asymmetic projectiles don't track well.
Crap, I just realized, I didn't have to think about it.
I just knew. It's possible I've spent way too much time testing and inspecting rimfire ammo.
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Ball peen effect, canted shoulders says #1 is Fed.
Smooth round nose clean crimp shows #2 is an RWS product.
Dimple tip tells me #3 is Eley.
I've noticed some lots from Eley, the flat of the dimple isn't square to the centerline of the cartridges.
Those don't fly as consistently as those that are square.
Asymmetic projectiles don't track well.
Crap, I just realized, I didn't have to think about it.
I just knew. It's possible I've spent way too much time testing and inspecting rimfire ammo.
Well you went 3 for 3 LoL, so you might be right. The Eley match has never performed for me, out of any of my 22s. The Geco IMO looks promising, will see on Sunday.
The Auto Match does have a slight ball peen effect, but they are fairly consistent IMO.
One small concern and maybe the photo is to blame, but the rightmost Geco bullet looks "off-center" to my eyes...
Y'er probably right about the Geco, OS.
Not a surprise.
It's not top of the RWS line, so you will find a few cartridge defects and mv spread.
For short range, 50 yards or less, it'll do.
Watch the Eley Match. Those non-square tips are going to pop a few strays.
Not a surprise.
It's not top of the RWS line, so you will find a few cartridge defects and mv spread.
For short range, 50 yards or less, it'll do.
Watch the Eley Match. Those non-square tips are going to pop a few strays.
for me right now sk red box match is giving me the really nice 10 shot groups at 100 yards so did the sk 100 yard off white match , cci standards and the mini mags the eley tenex had higher sd's than the sk at 16.3 but the smallest ten shot group of the bunch . I want to try them further at 200 yards next . good luck in finding what your gun shoots the best .
Cuda, did you get the ES from your results also?
I've found the ES to be more useful than the SD.
SD tells me what to expect from 2 out of three shots.
ES gives me a better idea of ammo quality and explains vertical strays.
OS, look at pic 1, the Feds, those skirts, the back edge of the bullet at the crimp,
they're canted, not square to the center line of the cartridges.
Those are going to be subject to tipping as they exit the muzzle.
Uneven pressure release is going to result in trajectory spread.
I've found the ES to be more useful than the SD.
SD tells me what to expect from 2 out of three shots.
ES gives me a better idea of ammo quality and explains vertical strays.
OS, look at pic 1, the Feds, those skirts, the back edge of the bullet at the crimp,
they're canted, not square to the center line of the cartridges.
Those are going to be subject to tipping as they exit the muzzle.
Uneven pressure release is going to result in trajectory spread.
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I do see the bullet is slightly canted on the feds.
Interesting. When I have a bit more time I am going to sample another lot.
It doesn't take much of a defect to cause strays.
At short range, time of flight doesn't allow any atmospheric interaction
so you won't see much in the way of effects.
By the time you hit 35 yards, the defect caused spread has been amplified to where it's results are easily seen.
At 50 yards they show up as outlying strays.
Get in the habit of inspecting before chambering, it explains y'er results.
What you thought was your fault is probably ammo related.
Well, it is our fault, we did spend good cash on crappy ammo.
At short range, time of flight doesn't allow any atmospheric interaction
so you won't see much in the way of effects.
By the time you hit 35 yards, the defect caused spread has been amplified to where it's results are easily seen.
At 50 yards they show up as outlying strays.
Get in the habit of inspecting before chambering, it explains y'er results.
What you thought was your fault is probably ammo related.
Well, it is our fault, we did spend good cash on crappy ammo.
For cheap bulk ammo the best stuff I have found is the Federal Auto match and CCI SV. I typically use the Federal Auto match as my practice ammo for positional shooting I have also found the cheap Geco shoots really well in some of my rifles. They throw the occasional flyer and I would not use them in a match but they are fantastic for running practice drills all day and not burning up my good ammo. I use Federal auto match in my rifle, the CZ likes the Geco and my other sons 10/22 likes the CCI.
When I go to the range it’s me and my two boys shooting and we can burn up some ammo in short order. It’s nothing to through a whole brick in a day. If we shot all premium ammo it would get way to expensive for us to shoot as much as we do. For positional shooting practice the bulk ammo is good enough. Is it as accurate or consistent as match ammo, no, but we aren’t using it in a match.
When I go to the range it’s me and my two boys shooting and we can burn up some ammo in short order. It’s nothing to through a whole brick in a day. If we shot all premium ammo it would get way to expensive for us to shoot as much as we do. For positional shooting practice the bulk ammo is good enough. Is it as accurate or consistent as match ammo, no, but we aren’t using it in a match.
I have more faith in 510 but still favor the auto match as far as bulk.
Just a question here from someone who doesn't shoot a lot of .22 LR. If you're shooting .22 with velocities of 1,000fps to 1,200fps, how bad is the lead build-up from lead bullets vs copper plated? What's the upside/downside of each?
Using a semiauto pistol, I find less lead deposited with the copper plated hi-v 22lr.
With Fed Automatch which is lubed lead, have to watch for build up.
With bolt action rifles, neither type caused a problem due to slower rate of fire.
With Fed Automatch which is lubed lead, have to watch for build up.
With bolt action rifles, neither type caused a problem due to slower rate of fire.
The Fed Automatch isnt as lubed as say the Geco or Eley which feel very "waxy".
Comparatively, the Automatch is pretty dry.
Auto Match performed surprisingly well in my Vudoo, especially given that it's a high velocity cartridge. I only did a limited test at 109 yards yesterday, in a brisk (8-12 mph) fishtailing tail wind, but I was able to group 15 rds into about 1.25". My initial 10 round group was fired on a 12" hex (just to get rough elevation, etc), and that group was about 2". It's tough to shoot tight groups on that big plate - the 2" plate is easier to be consistent on - wind may have settled just a bit, too.
It's fast - required a full mil less elevation than my chosen match load (which is Midas+)
It's fast - required a full mil less elevation than my chosen match load (which is Midas+)
At least one box of Automatch worked really well in my Vudoo. My wife was punching clay pigeons at 200 with it, and quite a few shots took out the middle.
I shot this 5 shot Automatch group this evening through the Bergara. It isn't as accurate as SK Standard but I'm pretty happy for the price paid.
Ive been having good results with the bricks of armscor lately. I was always a golden bullet fan though and have several 1400 rd buckets stashed back. Mostly for pistol shooting. I know its not popular but i just plink with 22 and never had a problem hitting turtle heads on the pond with it.
It would be Federal Automatch for me too. Ten years ago I had a case of CCI SV that was real good, but the last few times I’ve tried it, it was not. Same with Blazer, the old 40gr. stuff would sometimes shoot very well, but the newer 38gr, not so much.
Another good thing about Federal Automatch is being a little hotter it will cycle in all my semi auto guns including pistols.
Another good thing about Federal Automatch is being a little hotter it will cycle in all my semi auto guns including pistols.
I swear to know and have shot the biggest 22 unicorn ever and fellow Hide buddy Mike has shot it too. 15 year old Mossberg Plinkster bolt shoots Remington Thunderbolt consistently under 1". Not around an inch, under an inch. Begged this guy to sell it to me, but he ain't no dummy. Before the Simmons scope let go he had about $175 into it.
How about that creepy 12lb trigger on it too.
I shouldn't have fixed that darn Walther either.
Maybe coulda got that cheap...
I shouldn't have fixed that darn Walther either.
Maybe coulda got that cheap...
CCI Blazer works very well for me when I can find good lots of it. But that is not always the case. The Federal 550 packs from Walmart are not too bad.
I had a couple bricks of Blazer a few years back that shot nearly with my German and English Ammo. I have bought it a couple times since and it wasn’t anything like that.
Whatever comes in those federal black packs around the holidays.
Dynapoints out of polygonal barrels.
Wolf match target, though I haven't purchased any new for a decade.
Id really like to see more heavier bullets as an option. Maybe 45-50 grains.
Dynapoints out of polygonal barrels.
Wolf match target, though I haven't purchased any new for a decade.
Id really like to see more heavier bullets as an option. Maybe 45-50 grains.
I'm kinda surprised at all the love for the Federal Auto Match. I tried it in my 10/22 some years back and had some really bad feeding issues, like 2-3 rounds out of every full mag. I finally gave up after 3 mags worth. I got so frustrated I wasn't even paying attention to how it was accuracy-wise. My 10/22 shoots many brands of bulk ammo w/o issue, including CCI SV and MiniMags, Rem. Thunderbolt, Winchester Wildcat, Fiocchi, plus some SK Rifle Match.
I had the same issues in a 10/22 takedown and almost got rid of the ammo, but was good in every other gun I tried.
Cci std velocity runs disturbingly well in a savage and cz 22 I shoot quite often. Wish I had a couple more cases lol.
That Mossberg ain't going anywhere.....he wants more Thunderbolt! That rifle is hilarious to say it's been abused would be an understatement. Never once cleaned with thousands and thousands of rounds through it.How about that creepy 12lb trigger on it too.
I shouldn't have fixed that darn Walther either.
Maybe coulda got that cheap...
My experience with auto match is some lots are good and some are horrible. The worst Federal I have seen in the last few years is the 800 round packs sold at Walmart.
I have to agree with @redbullitt where CCI SV shoots very well out of my Savage Mk II BV out to 100 yds. It's just barely sub-MOA, better than it has a right to out of that gun.
My 10/22 Kidd likes CCI SV and loves SK Standard Plus. Higher end ammo performs a little better, but my go to is always SK.
Creedmoor Sports used to sell the stuff at a reasonable price before the panic. I still have a couple of bricks in reserve, but it goes fast.
Creedmoor Sports used to sell the stuff at a reasonable price before the panic. I still have a couple of bricks in reserve, but it goes fast.
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