Your thoughts on stepping up from .308 to .300WM

[Road_Clam]

So, i'm looking for some opinions. I'm currently shooting precision .308 out to 600 yds. The current colder dense wind seems to now be a frustrating factor in my precision. When I qualified for my clubs 600 back in June it was a very light breeze and 82F , and I shot excellent. Now jump to current Oct, 50F , and a colder cross wind now my shots get randomly pushed much more. I was thinking about picking up a used R700 SPS in .300WM . Will the heavier .300wm projectiles resist the wind better than my .308 ? I currently handload and shooting 168's and pushing around 2570 fps. Thanks in advance for your help !

Rich K.

 

[KYpatriot]

Almost anything will help you over the 308. About the only thing it has going for it is it is very easy/forgiving to load for, and component availability.

Research the 6.5s. Something like a 6.5 creedmore or 6.5x47 would be similar in size and recoil to your 308 but much better in the wind. Or the 7mms, like the 7-08, 7 rsaum, 7 wsm, 7rm, and of course the 300wm.

The 7 rm and 300 wm are basically identical in top end performance when comparing the heaviest bullets in each, except the energy on target advantage goes to the 300wm with the 230 Bergers. That being said, the 7rm has enough energy to cleanly harvest any North American game way out there. Both are considered barrel burners, 7rm has less recoil. Both have about half the wind drift of the 308 at 1000. Neither is as easy to load for, but the performance gain is obviously worth it.

 

[alleycat72]

I can't say enough about shooting 155.5 full bore bergers in a 308. I run a 20" gun and was shooting out to 1250 at STE yesterday. If 600 is as far as you'll be shooting, look at putting a 260, 6.5x47, 6×47 barrel on the gun you have..

 

[308Gunner]

From your post it sounds like you are not picking up the wind changes and a 6mm or 6.5 will damn sure help you when you miss a wind call as they are a hell of a lot more forgiving you will still have to address the wind issue at some point if you continue to shoot. You might try some 185s or drop to a 155 and push them faster, you are not pushing those 168s very fast. That just my opinion and you can take it for what its worth.

 

[Road_Clam]

Another reason I was leaning towards .300WM was also the relative ammo/brass availability which even throughout the recent ammo shortage was always plentifull..

 

[SWRichmond]

My recommendation to you would be based entirely on what you are personally trying to accomplish.

first I am Not sure what you mean when you say you qualified for your club's 600 yard match. it sounds like you had to shoot a Tyro (qualifying round) of some kind in order to be allowed to shoot in a tactical match; is that correct? the thing about tactical matches is this: you have precisely zero opportunity to study the wind, shoot frequently and repeatedly in wind conditions and see what the wind is doing to your rounds.

my next question is also simple: why are you shooting? if your answer is to be able to put metal reliably in a target at distance and be able to learn to do so in as short a time as possible then yes get a 6.5 wonder gun. but understand that by taking this path you will not learn repeat you will not learn to see all of the subtleties that the wind has to offer because the round will not always force you to look carefully at the wind.

if on the other hand you want to learn to read the wind then my suggestion to you is to continue shooting the 308 (with different bullets because frankly the 168s suck) but do so in a format such as F class where you have the opportunity to fire rounds repeatedly with less time pressure giving you an opportunity to actually examine the wind conditions and then fire and observe what happens. IMO this is where learning takes place. I chose early on not to shoot tactical matches because it seemed to me that shooting the tactical matches while running around, dropping into position and quickly taking an aimed shot, and then immediately running to the next position would not give me an opportunity as a beginner to understand and see the wind.

for me this process of learning to see the wind has been a lengthy one. I've been shooting FTR for about 2 years and I'm finally getting to be a decent wind reader. if you are in a hurry to shoot good scores this is not what you want to do. however, having said that, I think if you watch videos of guys shooting tactical matches there are a lot of first round misses, and I am guessing that that is because they are relying on the 6.5 wonder weapon to get them to the target.

 

[Road_Clam]

From your post it sounds like you are not picking up the wind changes and a 6mm or 6.5 will damn sure help you when you miss a wind call as they are a hell of a lot more forgiving you will still have to address the wind issue at some point if you continue to shoot. You might try some 185s or drop to a 155 and push them faster, you are not pushing those 168s very fast. That just my opinion and you can take it for what its worth.

I've done a lot of load developement, and my 1-12 R700 doesn't shoot 175's well. I only did a small amount of testing with 180's and did not seem to group well either, so I kinda gave up on the heavies. Maybe before I comit to a new caliber, maybe do some more testing with the 180's and load a little hotter. Per my data, once I start pushing over 2660 fps, my groups start to open up. Around 2550 is my barrel's sweet spot node.

 

[Bill Larson]

Stay with the 308.....long barrel life.......... shoot smooth 155`s or if your twist is at least 12:1 try hornaday 178`s.....

 

[308Gunner]

What powder are using and have you shot a group in the new conditions you are shooting in now. I am not trying to be a dick but if you learn to shoot the wind with a 308 then you can go to a caliber that has a high BC and you will be a lot better off for having learned to read the wind. I have a place I shoot that you can not feel the wind but it may be a 6MOA correction at range due to terrain.

 

[missilemantdi]

one thing about the 300wm is that you will be fighting the recoil more until you learn how to manage it, and maybe you know how already, so you will be fighting the wind and the recoil. I vote for one of the 6mm or 6.5mm rounds, less recoil to manage and their velocities mean they aren't affected as long by the wind (time of flight is shorter at same distance). I shoot a 300wm for some reason now and i'm getting a 6mm built to replace it.

 

[KYpatriot]

one thing about the 300wm is that you will be fighting the recoil more until you learn how to manage it, and maybe you know how already, so you will be fighting the wind and the recoil. I vote for one of the 6mm or 6.5mm rounds, less recoil to manage and their velocities mean they aren't affected as long by the wind (time of flight is shorter at same distance). I shoot a 300wm for some reason now and i'm getting a 6mm built to replace it.

That why I built a heavy 7rm. Fantastic performance, 6.5 mils to 1000 and only 45 in of drift in a ten mph full value crosswind. With a suppressor has less recoil than my unsuppressed rem 5r 308.
You can actually learn the wind just as well with a better round I've learned, you just get to enjoy more hits while doing it.

 

[Road_Clam]

My recommendation to you would be based entirely on what you are personally trying to accomplish.

first I am Not sure what you mean when you say you qualified for your club's 600 yard match. it sounds like you had to shoot a Tyro (qualifying round) of some kind in order to be allowed to shoot in a tactical match; is that correct?

No. When I stated "qualified" I meat qualified to be able to shoot at my club's 600 yard range. I don't shoot competitions.

 

[Road_Clam]

What powder are using and have you shot a group in the new conditions you are shooting in now. I am not trying to be a dick but if you learn to shoot the wind with a 308 then you can go to a caliber that has a high BC and you will be a lot better off for having learned to read the wind. I have a place I shoot that you can not feel the wind but it may be a 6MOA correction at range due to terrain.

#1 is Win 748
#2 is Benchmark
#3 is 2000MR

These are my top powders. Win 748 seems to be my most consistent and best performing powder.

Thanks for all the input, after reading i think I will just stick with the tried and true 308 and just keep shooting and practicing holdovers.

 

[DP425]

The 175's should do just fine in a 1:12 twist. 155 Scener would be another place to try, or the Hornady A-Max. Buy some Varget and experiment putting some loads together.

600 yards is pretty easy shooting. Most people on here have made some very good points; calibers able to run better BCs at the same or higher velocities will still be impacted by the wind, no doubt about it. A .300WM will have less wind drift... But I think the thing to ask yourself right now is, is it worth it? The .308 may be harder to shoot in the wind than the 6.5's and what not as well as the .300WM and 7RM, but all of those cost more to shoot, you will have a more difficult time finding match quality ammunition in the store, and you'll have to get set-up for reloading whatever other caliber you get... in addition to the new rifle.

I'm going to say, stick with what you have for now and use it to learn reading the wind better. Once you've improved your ability to shoot with wind, perhaps you will be happy with what you're running. It doesn't sound like you're doing any competitions of any sort, I doubt you're hunting out to 600 yards; I don't see where you NEED the advantages that come with those other calibers considering the cost involved. Punching paper just for your own enjoyment is great, but if you already have a good rifle but have trouble in the wind... the answer isn't another good rifle, it's improving the shooter.

Anyway, that's just my logic on this.

 

[Road_Clam]

T
600 yards is pretty easy shooting.

Yea, that's what I thought in calm hot conditions back in June.... now with the cold dense October air blowing in multiple directions i'm in a completely different game. I'm quickly learning that it's the wind is what sets the novice shooters (me) apart from the experts.. LOL

 

[EasternNChunter]

I love my 300 win mag. My first 300 win mag was a Remington Sendero and it was tough to shoot without a muzzle brake on it. One of my buddy's just went from shooting nothing but 308's to now favoring his 300. He and I mainly shoot 208 amax's. He is getting the better velocities out of his 24" barrel with Reloader 22 than I am with a 26" barrel and H1000. Both powders work exceptionally well though.

 

[MitchAlsup]

As mentioned before: the 168 SMK is a big part of your problem.

High BC 155s {Berger, Lapua Scenar, SMK (2156), and a few others} are vastly better than the 168 SMK.
High BC 175 SMK and some of the other heavies will also work significantly better than the 168 SMK.

So, drop the 168 SMK, and pick a bullet with a high BC.

 

[SWRichmond]

Yea, that's what I thought in calm hot conditions back in June.... now with the cold dense October air blowing in multiple directions i'm in a completely different game. I'm quickly learning that it's the wind is what sets the novice shooters (me) apart from the experts.. LOL

That is exactly why I started shooting in FTR competitions at 1K. I wanted to learn to read the wind. It has taken awhile, but it is worth it IMO. I highly recommend it. Another benefit of FTR is barrel life.

Edit: welcome to long range shooting...

 

[Rockfish Dave]

Since you hand load you can definitely do better in your ammo choice.

Since you already hand load, a 6.5 would be a very economical option.

If you are concerned about brass, a 6.5 SLR is like an over sized 6.5x47L (except for case taper, and large primer instead of small primer). All it takes is resizing 243 WIN (Winchester brass) before you load and you are GTG.

Just a rebarrel and dies and you already have everything else based off of your 308 WIN rifle.