I’m considering getting an AI at-x or at-xc. However, on the at-x I am seeing people label them as gen 1/2/3.. what’s the diff between them? Google doesn’t seem to be much help here as it tells me there aren’t different generations of the at-x.

Kahles k525i DLR LSW SKMR4

Fresh from a service trip to Austria. Comes with manual, parallax spinner, original and Aadland throw levers, tenebraex caps and neoprene cover. $2700 2550 shipped and insured

Zco 5-27x56 10 mill impct 2X
Scope None locking turret
Spuhr mount
Send it level With ocular
Sun shade
$4000 shipped

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Thanks

So I got the cleaning kit and wondering how clean is too clean.. Should I completely get rid of the carbon ring or just a mild scrub.. I did 2 x 20 passes with the Thoroclean system and got rid of a lot of carbon. BArrell looks much cleaner. Should I keep going?

I think I will do one more pass of 20-30 and see where I am at.

Here are some before and after pics..

Mike

I wanted to start a new thread to avoid detailing @supercorndogs Razor LHT thread. ..

I'll start by restating my question I asked there (in response to a post by @koshkin stating that small zero shifts in the scope itself almost never occur).

I hesitate to open this can of worms, but I'm really interested in your opinion on a specific aspect of this. I haven't seen the proofing setup for the infamous Rokslide evals addressed (though it's tough to do an exhaustive search for all the conversations that happened a couple years ago when this was the hot topic of discussion). When they have a rifle bonded to a chassis, that reliably passes the evals with NF, SWFA, certain Maven and multiple Trijicon models (and a few others like older fixed Leupold, LRHS, S&B etc), wouldn't that seem to indicate that a scope can be built to withstand that kind of impact and that the eval does indeed reliably test for that level of robustness?

If multiple samples of a Leupold or Vortex scope get mounted in the same manner and they all exhibit zero shifts on those same tests, how does the "uncontrolled variables" argument hold when there are several scope models that reliably pass under the same conditions?

Worded another way, it seems to me like scope designs tend to either be around a 2-3 on an arbitrary 0-10 reliability scale or around a 8-9 and the "uncontrolled" nature of the RS drop eval might cause some 5-6 scopes to pass or fail depending on how the rifle bounces on any particular drop. Scopes that pass seem to consistently pass and ones that fail seem to consistently fail. Is the argument that there are more scopes in the 6-7 range than I think, and that 6-7 is good enough?

There have been a couple of recent interviews I've seen (Aaron Davidson on Cliff Gray's podcast for example) that have revisited the topic and discuss the evals with similar perspectives to yours but again don't address the setups that consistently pass the test. Aaron doesn't appear to be a guy who underthinks things, and neither are you (though please don't take that as me equating you with him). I'm really not trying for a "gotcha" moment here, I'm genuinely interested in your expertise. Your commentary on the topic has been interesting for me to read (along with @Glassaholic and some others) and I'd love to hear your perspective on this.

His response was as follows:

koshkin said:

I have been out of the loop with this for a bit, so I have not looked at that silly nonsense for a little while.

I suspect that which scopes pass the alleged test and which do not mostly comes down to the preferences of the people doing the testing. The one observation I'll make is that with a few scopes from different manufacturers that they tested, they claimed one brand passed every time and another failed every time. The problem is that with a couple of those, I know for a fact that on the inside it is the same exact scope except with different branding. If one fails and the other does not... we are either dealing with sample variation or dishonesty.

Aside from that, I have made several attempts over the years to track down the issues with scopes that "allegedly" were shifting zero. I even offered to do the investigation pro-bono for people who believe they experience that problem. Exactly zero people took me up on that.

A few times I have been able to investigate someone else's scope (for people I know well or that are near me geographically), it was almost always something with the mount, although rifle bedding also played a role.

I even invited Scott Parks over to join me for a livestream and to discuss different failure modes.

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While there are possibly riflescopes out there that do have small zero shifts out there, most of the time it will come down to improper mounting (not always, probably, but sufficiently seldom that I have not been able to track that down).

Small zero shifts are generally not consistent with how most riflescopes are designed. They usually either work or fail catastrophically.

As far as internet claims of all sorts go, I have sorta resigned myself that people lie. A lot. I do not know why.

A few years ago, I did a mini investigation where a gentleman I knew relatively well claimed that he has had at least one product from every product line at Vortex fail on him at least once and he finally gave up on Vortex. He claimed that he would get a replacement product, sell it and move onto something else. After some investigation, it turned out it was one product, a while back, Vortex did replace it and he did sell it. Somehow, it was like a fishing story. Every time he would tell the story, it was a larger number of products failing.

There is a Youtuber who claims that he had a particular company's product that was absolute garbage, so he sent it in and the replacement was much better. Cool story. He did two videos on it. Since I knew his name and the company, I dug into it. He sent a scope in. They cleaned a massive oil smudge off of the front of the objective lens. Did their usual QC checks on the collimator and sent it back to him. The Youtuber did get two videos out of it sounding very authoritative (every once in a while I check in on one of his videos to see if he learned anything about optics. Nope. Not a bloody thing. He still treats them like a video game).

I have a few more stories like this and they all end up the same way. I feel like the main character from House MD, who is always convinced that his patients are lying and is mostly right about it.

Every time I try to track this down, I find either bullshit or incompetence or some weird shenanigans or a combination of all three.

Does that mean that all reports of scopes shifting zero are bullshit? Not at all. There is only so much that I can investigate given the bandwidth that I have. However, until I can get some reasonable data otherwise. I am going to stick with what I know based on hundreds, if not thousands, of different scopes I have seen over the years and based on the fact that one of the things I do for my dayjob is build riflescope testers for riflescope manufacturers.

I will add that unless something really interesting pops up, I am done trying to investigate this. I have only so much time to spend on this.

ILya

Click to expand...

That observation about same scope with different badging is an error. The 3-15 tract was tested but not the 2.5-15 that is the "same scope" as the Maven RS1.2. That tract has not been tested.

I listened to the conversation with Scott, and you repeated the "no way to know if the shifts are coming from barrel, bedding, mounting, etc" perspective. I am saying if the rifle holds POI through a dozen drops from 3' with scope after scope from NF, SWFA, Trijicon, etc, to me it seems like that does demonstrate that the "test bed" is not the source of the shift and that scopes can absolutely be designed and built to withstand the eval. If I'm missing some crucial part of this, please help me see it.

It also tracks with my personal experience. When I was a Leupold, Vortex, etc guy it was essentially a given that beginning of the season and a couple times throughout the season I'd need to make a little adjustment to my zero. As more and more of those scopes got replaced with LRHS, SWFA, that magically went away. I learned to mount scopes correctly in that time as well, but the old scopes went in good mounts and still needed adjustments. No more issues now, I adjust zero when I change bullets or powder, but that is it. Period.

Beating the objective bell on a carpeted floor might be indicative of some aspect of reliability, but it seems to me that the eval shows that when it lands on a turret with rifle attached (something the mil test table with the swinging hammer doesn't test for, but a way more likely thing to encounter in the field), zero shifts can and do occur.

Is the position here that Form, Ryan, and everyone involved is just lying about this whole thing? There are a few other members that have replicated the tests, exposed weaknesses in their mounting setups/processeces, then corrected them and had same results as the "official" ones.

Please help me understand why so many on SH are so dismissive of these evals. It seems like much of the criticism has been addressed/explained.

Cedar Creek Precision – Monthly Long Range Match | Western KY





Looking for a match that breaks out of the square range routine? Come shoot with us at Cedar Creek Precision in western Kentucky. This monthly match brings a true field-style experience with natural terrain, multiple firing positions, and a fast-paced, no-BS format.





Match Style:


Find, Range, Engage – You’ll be working real-world scenarios with hidden targets, ranging on the clock, and engaging from multiple natural and improvised positions. Barricades, uneven ground, and terrain-driven angles keep it interesting.





Key Highlights:

• Two separate ranges with targets well past 1000 yards
• More than a dozen firing positions across varied terrain
• No square range setups – expect grass, hills, trees, rocks, and brush
• Positional stages with barricades, natural obstacles, and time pressure
• Varying target sizes — precision counts
• ~100+ rounds required — bring enough and a good dope card
• Fast-moving but laid-back environment — shooters helping shooters

When: Monthly — PM for upcoming dates or follow us for updates. 2nd weekend of every month. Also find them on practiscore.

9-10 August 2025
13-4 September 2025
11-12 October 2025


Where: Cedar Creek Precision –
14270 Melvin West Road
Hopkinsville, KY 42240


All skill levels welcome — experienced shooters, new long-range guys, and everyone in between





If you want a challenging but fun match to sharpen your field skills, this is it. We keep it efficient, honest, and real. No gimmicks, just good shooting. PM for sign-up or questions.

Ok who is using a switch lug system for changing caliber?
Does it really return to zero?
Is it truly that simple, or is there any unforseen variables?

I'll get this thread started again


26" Bartlein M24 .260Rem
Stiller TAC30
Murphy Precision 20MOA Scope Base
XLR Element Folding Chassis
Kampfeld Customs Brake
Jewel HVR 14oz
Vortex GenII 4.5-27x56 EBR-2C MRAD
Vortex PMR 0.92" 34mm Rings
Barrel and Scope Base cerakoted Snipers Grey
Action is melonite from factory






Patriot Valley Arms
26" Bartlein M24 6.5x47L
Bighorn TL3
Receiver DLC / Bolt NP3
XLR Element Folding Chassis
Jewel HVR 14oz
Rugged Suppressors 3 Port QD Brake
Vortex GenII 4.5-27x56 EBR-2C MRAD
Vortex PMR 1.26" 34mm Rings

Never ended up using this and dont have any 3/4 threaded Barrels


$50 shipped and it's yours

Zelle or cash app

I always said I'd get a boat when I moved to an environment that it would actually be worth it. Moved to Florida from Colorado just over a year ago and was considering getting a boat. But, boats are expensive and when I actually think about how I'd use that boat, I've come to the conclusion that I probably don't really want or need a full on boat. The only activities I see me doing in a boat is fishing and exploring the waterways. I had a kayak in Colorado that I'd do exactly that with and it was great. Easy to store, easy to launch, inexpensive, and was able to get into all the shallow, narrow areas I wanted to go. My only issue was that it was limited on space and I couldn't stand. It was around that time that fishing out of a kayak was becoming much more popular and the industry was beginning to build kayaks that were geared more towards fishing, i.e. stand up kayaks. Then the peddle drive kayaks started showing up. These piqued my interest but I began shooting more and fishing less. Now they've taken the paddle kayak to a new level with hybrid peddle/electric drives or full on electric drives. This is awesome because it gives me the ability to go much farther and stay out longer without getting tired and trolling much easier while handling the fishing rod.

So, who has a peddle/hybrid drive kayak and what do you recommend? Initially when these were just becoming popular, the Hobbies where the goto for peddle drive but in my recent research and the addition of electric powered drives the options have really opened up. At this point I'm really interested in the Old Towns offerings. I've seen a few others but Old Town seems to have the hybrid peddle drive/electric dialed in. Also, the kayak I did have was an Old Town Vapor and really liked the balance of space and efficiency for paddling.

The Old Town Sportsman Bigwater EDPL+ 132 has my attention. I'd prefer a 10 foot kayak but there doesn't seem to be an option in the EDPL+ just the PDL. Does the EDPL+ offer much of an advantage over the EDP? What other brands should I consider?

Pics for fun.

Old Town Vapor. My original kayak.





Sportsman Bigwater ePDL+ 132



Sportsman PDL 106

I know there are many here who refuse to even consider rifles that cost less than $8,000, a right arm, kidney, and your first born, because some think cost always equals quality. But for those of us that don’t have Porches for daily drivers, super model wives (and side pieces), billions in the bank, and to whom nothing less than Barrett's and Chey Tacs will do, have to budget on occasion.

The question is just how cheap is TOO cheap? At what point are you just buying garbage or rolling the dice? Where is the happy medium?

I have become interested in playing with the 8.6 Blackout but the trouble is most of the offerings are very expensive from “premium” brands and at the end of the day, other than the caliber they are all pretty much the same rifle, an AR-10, and most of the parts will probably interchange, and I just can’t justify spending $2,000-$3,000, or more, on a rifle just to experiment with a new caliber, but I also don’t want to buy garbage.

But there is the problem, because as far as I can tell the only budget manufacturer is Bear Creak Arsenal, and they don’t exactly make me confident, they claim sub MOA accuracy, and some people I have seen report that, but others report 4 MOA accuracy, canted gas blocks, unstaked gas keys, and rifles so over gassed that you end up with soot on your face like your shooting black powder. And I don’t know which is the more common experience. I’d love it if PSA made one, maybe not the best, but at least adequate and good enough to experiment with, but they don’t, at least not the last time I checked, but Bear Creek Arsenal?

What has your experience been with them? Are they worth messing with? If they ship a bad rifle will they fix it? What is that process like and what’s the turnaround time?

The intended purpose is mostly to experiment with the caliber, but also just for fun and maybe some tactical style shooting, doubt I would try for more than 500 yards or so at most, and probably less, but if it could hit a thousand that would be cool. A range toy really, but I do want it to work and be reasonably accurate, not planning on winning any competitions with it.

I have a love of funny memes, videos and photos. Let’s let this thread focus on the funny without the nudity if that’s OK.

Lightly used for maybe 300 rounds

Just like title states. This is a TT diamond ar15 single stage trigger with the pro curved shoe (trigger is blue)

$200 shipped

Zelle or cash app

I’m sure no one new she hated white people and celebrated their murders until today- I’m sure in every other aspect of her job she was amazing and professional and a hell of an earner .

I have a low round count (<100) blued Tikka T3 Lite .204, 20” threaded by LRI. (Can include Area419 adapter for $30.) Prefer to sell for $675 shipped with 2 mags (1 3rnd, 1 4rnd) and green stock.

Trades considered: 15x56 Binos, Zen Bivy sleep system

This was used to train my kids to shoot. I have an identical .243 I would swap out for deer hunting and they never knew the difference.

Also have 5 x50rd boxes 32gr Hornady ammo and x17 40gr Superformance rounds I could sell with it for $200.

Black Varmint stock in pic is not currently for sale.

Hey folks, new guy here from VA.

I've hunted most of my life here in VA (and I'm old) with a few hog hunts in the south. I've taken a lot of whitetail with bow, muzzleloader, and mostly shotgun, only a few with rifle. Never shot game past 200 yds.
I just picked up a Browning X-Bolt 2 Speed in 7mm PRC and planning an elk hunt out west next year. I'm trying to decide on a scope for this rifle and could use some advice.
I'm flexible on criteria as I have no experience out west, but here's where I'm at.
Max magnification 15-20
compact and light weight
zero lock exposed elevation turrets
Open to FFP or SFP
max range 600yds (with lots of practice)
Budget < $1500 but I will most likely purchase through Expertvoice where I get some really good discounts.

I currently have several Burris (including a first gen eliminator), and a few really old Nikon's, the last scope I purchased was a Vortex Viper I have on a T3x 6.5 creed. While I've had good luck with all of these, I'm not brand loyal so open to suggestions.

Right now I'm looking at:
Leica Amplus 6 3x18x44
Steiner H6Xi 3x18x50
Burris Veracity PH, and a couple of the XTRs (the HUD in the Veracity is interesting)
Trijicon Tenmile 3-18x44

Some of these don't list the weight, but I'd like to keep that as low as feasible.

Nightforce, Vortex, and Zeiss are also available

Appreciate the help

​

You boomers are insane

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L.E. Wilson .223 Rem die set with bushings

- Full Length Bushing Die - FLD-223R
- Neck Bushing Die - SND-223R
- Wilson .242 bushing
- SAC .244 bushing
- SAC .245 bushing

$110 for all shipped to your door

Paypal F&F or Venmo

Please PM

Hey friends
trying to get a sense for what to expect for the 2025 snipers hide cup and what kind of gun to bring? Seems like a heavy ass gamer gun may not be the move

I'm selling a MDT ACC Elite with a light weight stock. The chassis is bedded for a Impact 737R action. Lot's of extras.

Included:
-Internal weight, one piece
-3x control bridge
-Butt stock weight
-Fat grip
-Adjustable butt plate
-Rubber dampeners
-3x M-lok weight kits
-Low pro cheek rest

$1350 shipped

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For sale is a Geissele bolt carrier group. It was used in a Geissele upper for 20-30rds and is used like new.

This one:

$300 $250 Shipped.

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For sale my PRS GEAR. if you want more pictures get ahold of me. All prices are shipped


Atlas cal bipod with area 419 clamp, rubber and spiked feet
260

Vortex radian tripod with rubber and spiked feet
700

Vortex razor HD 4000 range finder
400

10 round AICS BY AM
45

Magneto speed full kit
190
All barrels are chambered for impact 737R

Krieger barrel MTU chambered in 6x47l by Drew at war rifles. 26 inchs long, 1.75 twist. 619 rounds on barrel
550

Brand new geissle SS 5R .243 blank, MTU 1.75 27 blank, finishes at 26
375

Krieger MTU 6x47l 27 inch long 1.75 twist chambered by KI precision 1,100 rounds on it
300

6x47 MTU chambered by KI precision don't know the blank manufacture 1.75 twist 26 inchs long 1,476 rounds down the tube
225

Benchmark barrel 6.5x47L MTU chambered by straight jacket 26 inch long 1-8 twist 2,367 down the tube
75

Brand new bartlein barrel.

5/8x24, 26" long, black cerakote, looks like mtu/m24 contour, 1:9 twist


Was screwed on an action but never fired. Fits 787 long actions with lapua BF


$600 shipped

Zelle or cash app

I have (2) TriggerTech ACE Trigger System for Glock (Flat Trigger) for sale. Both are new-in-box.

Price: $275, no trades please.
Shipping: Included via USPS with tracking. Additional fee for shipping OCONUS.
Payment: PayPal FF or Venmo. Please use "thank you" for the transaction comments.
To Purchase: DO NOT RESPOND HERE. PM me and I will respond to your original message with instructions. Any other contact claiming to be me is a scammer.