Something kicking off in Israel

[Mr.BR]

That's dishonest. There's a difference between intellectual free speech and actual threats. What Shapiro is talking about in those clips is how the discussion of various topics, in and of themselves, is not violence. e.g. a forum speaker talking about his views on the transgender debate does not equate to violence or actual threats of violence. Whereas, a demonstration by pro-Hamas or pro-Palestinian chanting "death to Jews" is an actual threat of violence. Debating someone about the moral and ethical implications of abortion does not equate to violence, hate speech, or threats of violence. Even though many on the other end of that debate claim it is. Whereas, someone calling for the total eradication of Israel and the beheading of anybody who likes bagels is actual violent speech.

Not really ,first of all , all Palestinian protest is very dishonestly labeled as pro Hamas protest which is not the same thing, Its just a shade different from truckers being called nazis bank accounts frozen etc .
Chants from the river to the sea are clasified as call to genocide and in practice banned in many countries while federales parade around with swastikas.

By the way even HAMAS charter since 2017 is based on 2 state solution not extermination ,not to mention is really anyone thinking they have any chance at all at doing anything about it.

no,1 Hamas supporter is Bibi Netanyahu and consecutive Israeli governments It is absolutely dishonest to point at anyone but them as their support was always actions -> hard cash,intel and arms , not empty waving of Palestinian flags by brainless sheep that go with every new thing.

Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders

Document aims to heal divisions within Palestinian movement and ease peace process but Netanhayu says: ‘Hamas is attempting to fool the world’

www.theguardian.com

Honestly, time and time again we see free speech under attack by folks who preach it when it suits them but do 180 when it doesn't. Just look at the censorship complex that thrives thanks to influential morons like Ben Shapiro , RFK jr also went from free speech absolutist to censoring folks over Israel BS Epsteining works. Tulsi Gabbard also seems to have spun 180° neocon on this.

Funny enough ''from the river to the sea'' = genocide ''Slava Ukraini , Herojem Slava'' - actual ww2 era nazi slogan = freedom fries

So far the imaginary anti-Semitic violence only resulted in a bunch of dead Muslims.

By the way, i am always curious how antisemitism or anti-Islamism works ( have you ever looked at Israelis half of them look same as arabs/ Palestinians, most of us wouldn't tell them apart and both are semites)?, do you walk around with a big sign i am Jew,Christian,Muslem? Or something that says straight ,gay , bi ,tri, fluid sexual.?

Ultimately it seems its mostly case of self-victimization, idiots feeling threatened themselves without any threat ever directed at them at all. Pulling victim card at will.

Like this crying moron,that probably feels threatened, when nothing really is concerning her, let alone aimed at her.

As great ''philosopher'' AOC once said folks talking stuff you disagree with is violence

 

[FourT6and2]

By the way even HAMAS charter since 2017 is based on 2 state solution not extermination...

If a 2-state solution were inherently part of HAMAS policy, they wouldn't be launching rockets into Israel for the past 34 years and October 7th would never have happened. You say a two-state "solution" has been part of Hamas' charter since 2017??? Ohhhh so what happened in the 28 years prior to that, exactly? Israel has time and time again attempted to broker peace with Palestine and offered to give them Gaza, the West Bank, and more, free and clear. And each time, Palestine has responded with what amounts to, "No, not until Israel and all Jews are eliminated from the face of the earth." It's too late to wine about a 2-state solution that has never been an actual option to them.

By the way, i am always curious how antisemitism or anti-Islamism works ( have you ever looked at Israelis half of them look same as arabs/ Palestinians, most of us wouldn't tell them apart and both are semites)?, do you walk around with a big sign i am Jew,Christian,Muslem? Or something that says straight ,gay , bi ,tri, fluid sexual.?

Ultimately it seems its mostly case of self-victimization, idiots feeling threatened themselves without any threat ever directed at them at all. Pulling victim card at will.

Interesting take.

 

[fx77]

High points of the Hamas Charter

THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS

 

[Mr.BR]

If a 2-state solution were inherently part of HAMAS policy, they wouldn't be launching rockets into Israel for the past 34 years and October 7th would never have happened. You say a two-state "solution" has been part of Hamas' charter since 2017??? Ohhhh so what happened in the 28 years prior to that, exactly? Israel has time and time again attempted to broker peace with Palestine and offered to give them Gaza, the West Bank, and more, free and clear. And each time, Palestine has responded with what amounts to, "No, not until Israel and all Jews are eliminated from the face of the earth." It's too late to wine about a 2-state solution that has never been an actual option to them.



Interesting take.

If you haven't noticed 2 state solution is the thing that Israel never wanted and makes an effort daily to prevent it , including by cooking up and promoting a Islamist terror group Hamas , Hamas is Israel's jihadi pet project much more so than Osama and AQ was a spinoff from US Afghan project.

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

Mossad chief visited Doha, urged Qatar to continue Hamas financial aid

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[lariat]

Far-right Israeli ministers demand Netanyahu end Gaza truce

National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir warns his party will quit the government if the war ends, while the finance minister rejects the prospect of a ceasefire

www.middleeasteye.net

Ben-Gvir threatens to dissolve Israel gov’t if bombing of Gaza stops​

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231129-ben-gvir-threatens-to-dissolve-israel-govt-if-bombing-of-gaza-stops/

 

[lariat]

Netanyahu gone down in history as 'butcher of Gaza,' Erdogan says​

https://tass.com/world/1713663?utm_source=rense.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rense.com&utm_referrer=rense.com

 

[lariat]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-gallant-emphatic-war-will-resume-soon-as-truce-appears-set-for-extension/

 

[lariat]

Riyadh offers Tehran cash incentive for not escalating conflict beyond Gaza — media​

https://tass.com/world/1713823?utm_source=rense.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rense.com&utm_referrer=rense.com

 

[higginsworksforme]

Riyadh offers Tehran cash incentive for not escalating conflict beyond Gaza​

That's wild. What kind of person would be more strongly motivated by money over ideology? Who, I wonder.

 

[Terry Cross]

Israel-Gaza Situation Report: Ceasefire Holds Despite Skirmish

A flareup of violence in northern Gaza did not prevent more hostages from being exchanged Tuesday or scuttle the fragile ceasefire.

www.thedrive.com

 

[babyguppy]

Netanyahu gone down in history as 'butcher of Gaza,' Erdogan says​

https://tass.com/world/1713663?utm_source=rense.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rense.com&utm_referrer=rense.com

Erodgan.....sighs.

Israel is killing terrorists..
Erodgan killed his own people..
who's the real butcher?
Erodgan will side with his religion EVERY time. It's why he an Obama bonded.

 

[theLBC]

bystander that came from across the street to take down the terrorists almost got offed by the police for his troubles.

 

[Mr.BR]

bystander that came from across the street to take down the terrorists almost got offed by the police for his troubles.

It looks like he took down one Hamas attacker and soldiers shot the other and outright executed him for the the trouble.

 

[Longshot231]

It looks like he took down one Hamas attacker and soldiers shot the other and outright executed him for the the trouble.

This sounds cruel but the lesson to be learned is not to be a hero. Regardless of the country, the cops and/or military assume that anyone with a gun is a bad guy.

Unless it's a friend or loved one, don't help because you could end up being a target.

Just because other people haven't armed themselves is no excuse to help them. In this country, if you don't get shot by a cop there's a good chance you will be prosecuted.

I don't plan on pulling my gun unless the bad guy might target me.

 

[Mr.BR]

Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. The document called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7.

Israel Knew Hamas' Attack Plan a Year Before Oct. 7: Report

A year before Hamas' Oct. 7 attack on Israel, a document detailing plans to carry out the assault circulated among Israeli officials, according to NYT

www.rollingstone.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

 

[Kamerad]

When has a country divided into two parts with another country between those parts ever worked?

United States, Alaska/Canada/Conus.
I reckon it’s an exception that proves the rule though.

Kaliningrad/Königsberg enclave currently occupied by Russia. That city was built by the Germans centuries ago.

 

[7.62willdo]

It looks like he took down one Hamas attacker and soldiers shot the other and outright executed him for the the trouble.

No good deed goes unpunished

 

[Bullfrog08]

This sounds cruel but the lesson to be learned is not to be a hero. Regardless of the country, the cops and/or military assume that anyone with a gun is a bad guy.

Unless it's a friend or loved one, don't help because you could end up being a target.

Just because other people haven't armed themselves is no excuse to help them. In this country, if you don't get shot by a cop there's a good chance you will be prosecuted.

I don't plan on pulling my gun unless the bad guy might target me.

Women and children?....fuckem?

Ill never get on board with that line of thinking. Im not letting innocent people die, regardless of outcome.

 

[Maggot]

They KNEW it was coming.

Israel Knew Hamas's Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago​

The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com › World › Middle East



15 hours ago — Israeli officials obtained Hamas's battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, ...

 

[Longshot231]

Women and children?....fuckem?

Ill never get on board with that line of thinking. Im not letting innocent people die, regardless of outcome.

To each his own.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Women and children?....fuckem?

Ill never get on board with that line of thinking. Im not letting innocent people die, regardless of outcome.

Women (or womanlike men) are usually the ones begging, and demanding and clamouring for "gun control" and the ones that often are the loudest voices of hate towards traditional manly, masculine, protective men.

So well, perhaps it's a good thing to step back and let nature take it's course.

Just saying...

You hate guns, you don't want anyone to have them, you don't want your simp boyfriends to have them, you don't want to touch those horrible yucky things... Well bully for you, but then nobody with one of those should come save you. Try talking and whatever you preach to others they should do...

Children, that's a different matter, so long as we are talking about actual young children, not the "children" as the news media call them when some 17 or 18 year old gang banger is killed while "just turning their lives around"

It was Ironic (or if you are a conspiracy type, perhaps on purpose) that the first target of the Hamas terrorists was to go kill as many peace/love/dope hippies that they could, all of which were in a "weapons free" "safe space" and were all going on about peace and love for the Palestinians and saying how bad and mean the Israeli army was and such...

I wonder if any of the survivors changed their way of thinking?
Probably not, as shown here, the idiocy of the weak runs deep.

 

[doubloon]

So well, perhaps it's a good thing to step back and let nature take it's course.

Si.

Even the bible teaches us that everyone is not worth saving.

 

[Frank Green]

If it would ever happen and happen in front of you... each person has to make that split decision to run or confront it and fight and the chips fall where they fall.

I get both sides of the coin/thinking etc... and I can agree with and say both sides have a valid argument.

If you have the power to possibly stop it would you do it? Simple answer from me is I'd have to stand and fight. If I wasn't there and my wife and kids where stuck in the middle (no they are not anti gunners or identify as a animal or use them or they pronouns etc....) I would hope that someone would stand up and do the same thing for me as I would for them.

 

[doubloon]

If you have the power to possibly stop it would you do it? Simple answer from me is I'd have to stand and fight.

In a lot of ways it's the elevator problem.

You're on your way home/work/whatevs and you're waiting for the elevator. The elevator arrives, the doors open, inside two guys are in the thick of it and one is holding a knife/gun/club/sword ... who is the aggressor? ... who do you shoot?

Some situations are fairly cut and dried like a lone guy walking through a mall/school/store/office/graduation shooting random people/kids. If there's an opportunity I'd like to think I'd park one in his brain pan or turn him into a leaky souffle.

Then there's the situation where several people have guns out, there are obviously already two or more sides to the conflict and you are not wearing the jersey/colors of any particular group ... fuck that, I'm out, even if there are a dozen women breastfeeding babies on benches in the middle of it.

 

[MadDuner]

In a lot of ways it's the elevator problem.

You're on your way home/work/whatevs and you're waiting for the elevator. The elevator arrives, the doors open, inside two guys are in the thick of it and one is holding a knife/gun/club/sword ... who is the aggressor? ... who do you shoot?

Some situations are fairly cut and dried like a lone guy walking through a mall/school/store/office/graduation shooting random people/kids. If there's an opportunity I'd like to think I'd park one in his brain pan or turn him into a leaky souffle.

Then there's the situation where several people have guns out, there are obviously already two or more sides to the conflict and you are not wearing the jersey/colors of any particular group ... fuck that, I'm out, even if there are a dozen women breastfeeding babies on benches in the middle of it.

I look at it as gambling $250k, and quite possibly my freedom for somebody else.
I would do it to save me or my family with no hesitation.
If I don't understand the situation completely - I'm going to do whatever it takes to get away from there - with my firearm holstered.

 

[Makinchips208]

I look at it as gambling $250k, and quite possibly my freedom for somebody else.
I would do it to save me or my family with no hesitation.
If I don't understand the situation completely - I'm going to do whatever it takes to get away from there - with my firearm holstered.

I agree. I learned some lessons the hard way.
When I was 20ish a mob was in the beginning process of assaulting a trucker and his woman over some traffic obstruction dispute. Stupidity on all sides seems like.
Anyways, I shoved a pistol in my pocket and headed to get involved, being dumb I was fully intent on cracking the instigators skull, my older, wiser brother literally grabbed me and said “get in the truck” and we took off.
My brother saved my bacon!!!!
As we were pulling out the cops started showing up.

Anyways, now I have a family to protect. So yeah I might bug out instead.

“a wise monkey is a monkey that doesn’t monkey in another monkey’s business” unknown author.

The Bible verse of Proverbs 26:17 says
“He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.”

But, I have got involved to protect innocent people and would do so again if I felt it was right.

 

[Longshot231]

If it would ever happen and happen in front of you... each person has to make that split decision to run or confront it and fight and the chips fall where they fall.

I get both sides of the coin/thinking etc... and I can agree with and say both sides have a valid argument.

If you have the power to possibly stop it would you do it? Simple answer from me is I'd have to stand and fight. If I wasn't there and my wife and kids where stuck in the middle (no they are not anti gunners or identify as a animal or use them or they pronouns etc....) I would hope that someone would stand up and do the same thing for me as I would for them.

In a lot of ways it's the elevator problem.

You're on your way home/work/whatevs and you're waiting for the elevator. The elevator arrives, the doors open, inside two guys are in the thick of it and one is holding a knife/gun/club/sword ... who is the aggressor? ... who do you shoot?

Some situations are fairly cut and dried like a lone guy walking through a mall/school/store/office/graduation shooting random people/kids. If there's an opportunity I'd like to think I'd park one in his brain pan or turn him into a leaky souffle.

Then there's the situation where several people have guns out, there are obviously already two or more sides to the conflict and you are not wearing the jersey/colors of any particular group ... fuck that, I'm out, even if there are a dozen women breastfeeding babies on benches in the middle of it.

I look at it as gambling $250k, and quite possibly my freedom for somebody else.
I would do it to save me or my family with no hesitation.
If I don't understand the situation completely - I'm going to do whatever it takes to get away from there - with my firearm holstered.

I agree. I learned some lessons the hard way.
When I was 20ish a mob was in the beginning process of assaulting a trucker and his woman over some traffic obstruction dispute. Stupidity on all sides seems like.
Anyways, I shoved a pistol in my pocket and headed to get involved, being dumb I was fully intent on cracking the instigators skull, my older, wiser brother literally grabbed me and said “get in the truck” and we took off.
My brother saved my bacon!!!!
As we were pulling out the cops started showing up.

Anyways, now I have a family to protect. So yeah I might bug out instead.

“a wise monkey is a monkey that doesn’t monkey in another monkey’s business” unknown author.

The Bible verse of Proverbs 16:17 says
“He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.”

But, I have got involved to protect innocent people and would do so again if I felt it was right.

Here are two scenarios in which I would fight in one and run in the other. Granted, there are a lot of variables in real world and hypothetical scenarios but let's assume, there are NO friends or loved ones in the crowd that I desire to protect.

First scenario: I'm in the back or middle of a crowded room, restaurant, bar or subway and the only viable exit is the one that the bad guy(s) enters. All other exits are either blocked with people or don't exist. Besides, when the shooting starts those exists are likely to be crowded with people fighting each other like the third monkey on Noah's ark to get out. Bodies might start piling up at those exits.

The bad guy(s) enter the room, restaurant, bar or subway and start shooting people at random working their way toward me.

If I can get the drop on them and eliminate the threat, I'm firing my gun and hopefully get all of them before they get me. In this scenario, I would have no choice. If and when the cops get there, hopefully the shooting will have stopped and I have time to put the gun away.

The second scenario involves an open area, either outdoors or large indoor affair with lots of exists, safe places, cover and very little people.

If the bad guy(s) enter the vicinity and start shooting, there is a 99% chance of me running to the exists, safe places or cover. If I draw my weapon, it's going back in the holster as soon as I know there are no bad guy(s) in sight.

Remember that the SOPs of a lot of law enforcement agencies (now) are for the first responders to immediately engage the threats without waiting for backup.

Assuming that they follow that SOP, any cop(s) that enter are going to act under the assumption that ANYONE with a gun is a bad guy.

Also remember that in the mindset of a first responder, they might be thinking that they are also a target by virtue of wearing a uniform and with a weapon drawn. To them, anyone with a gun isn't merely their target but their threat. In short, they are going to be very trigger happy.

The bottom line is I run first. If that isn't an option, I fight. Let someone else be the hero and risk getting shot by a frightened or pissed off cop.

 

[Makinchips208]

Here are two scenarios in which I would fight in one and run in the other. Granted, there are a lot of variables in real world and hypothetical scenarios but let's assume, there are NO friends or loved ones in the crowd that I desire to protect.

First scenario: I'm in the back or middle of a crowded room, restaurant, bar or subway and the only viable exit is the one that the bad guy(s) enters. All other exits are either blocked with people or don't exist. Besides, when the shooting starts those exists are likely to be crowded with people fighting each other like the third monkey on Noah's ark to get out. Bodies might start piling up at those exits.

The bad guy(s) enter the room, restaurant, bar or subway and start shooting people at random working their way toward me.

If I can get the drop on them and eliminate the threat, I'm firing my gun and hopefully get all of them before they get me. In this scenario, I would have no choice. If and when the cops get there, hopefully the shooting will have stopped and I have time to put the gun away.

The second scenario involves an open area, either outdoors or large indoor affair with lots of exists, safe places, cover and very little people.

If the bad guy(s) enter the vicinity and start shooting, there is a 99% chance of me running to the exists, safe places or cover. If I draw my weapon, it's going back in the holster as soon as I know there are no bad guy(s) in sight.

Remember that the SOPs of a lot of law enforcement agencies (now) are for the first responders to immediately engage the threats without waiting for backup.

Assuming that they follow that SOP, any cop(s) that enter are going to act under the assumption that ANYONE with a gun is a bad guy.

Also remember that in the mindset of a first responder, they might be thinking that they are also a target by virtue of wearing a uniform and with a weapon drawn. To them, anyone with a gun isn't merely their target but their threat. In short, they are going to be very trigger happy.

The bottom line is I run first. If that isn't an option, I fight. Let someone else be the hero and risk getting shot by a frightened or pissed off cop.

Exactly. Well put.
I have trained along side some law enforcement a few times, played good guy and bad guy. But even when I was good guy, we all got flex cuffed as they were securing the scene. I understand they don’t know who is really the good or bad guys.

 

[Mr.BR]

Totally not trying to hide the fact that many of folks in the burned-out cars were probably down to IDF fires.

First to ''To preserve the sanctity of those murdered by Hamas, for the first time since the establishment of the state, they decided to bury the vehicles.'' but to save space cars will be shredded first ''In order to save space and be as environment-friendly as possible, Hasid explained that the cars may be shredded before being buried.” throwing everything into a shredder surely preserves sanctity best

​

This is why Israel plans to bury hundreds of cars, with ashes and blood stains

To preserve the sanctity of those murdered by Hamas, for the first time since the establishment of the state, they decided to bury the vehicles.

www.jpost.com

 

[Baron23]

Not really ,first of all , all Palestinian protest is very dishonestly labeled as pro Hamas protest which is not the same thing, Its just a shade different from truckers being called nazis bank accounts frozen etc .
Chants from the river to the sea are clasified as call to genocide and in practice banned in many countries while federales parade around with swastikas.

By the way even HAMAS charter since 2017 is based on 2 state solution not extermination ,not to mention is really anyone thinking they have any chance at all at doing anything about it.

no,1 Hamas supporter is Bibi Netanyahu and consecutive Israeli governments It is absolutely dishonest to point at anyone but them as their support was always actions -> hard cash,intel and arms , not empty waving of Palestinian flags by brainless sheep that go with every new thing.

Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders

Document aims to heal divisions within Palestinian movement and ease peace process but Netanhayu says: ‘Hamas is attempting to fool the world’

www.theguardian.com

Honestly, time and time again we see free speech under attack by folks who preach it when it suits them but do 180 when it doesn't. Just look at the censorship complex that thrives thanks to influential morons like Ben Shapiro , RFK jr also went from free speech absolutist to censoring folks over Israel BS Epsteining works. Tulsi Gabbard also seems to have spun 180° neocon on this.

Funny enough ''from the river to the sea'' = genocide ''Slava Ukraini , Herojem Slava'' - actual ww2 era nazi slogan = freedom fries

So far the imaginary anti-Semitic violence only resulted in a bunch of dead Muslims.

By the way, i am always curious how antisemitism or anti-Islamism works ( have you ever looked at Israelis half of them look same as arabs/ Palestinians, most of us wouldn't tell them apart and both are semites)?, do you walk around with a big sign i am Jew,Christian,Muslem? Or something that says straight ,gay , bi ,tri, fluid sexual.?

Ultimately it seems its mostly case of self-victimization, idiots feeling threatened themselves without any threat ever directed at them at all. Pulling victim card at will.

Like this crying moron,that probably feels threatened, when nothing really is concerning her, let alone aimed at her.

As great ''philosopher'' AOC once said folks talking stuff you disagree with is violence

You're full of shit.

"The position toward Occupation and political solutions
18. The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination.

19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, judaisation or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.

20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus."

"20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea."

Etc.

Read the actual 2017 Charter

Hamas in 2017: The document in full

Hamas explains general principles and objectives in 42-article document

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[Mr.BR]

You're full of shit.

"The position toward Occupation and political solutions
18. The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination.

19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, judaisation or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.

20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus."

"20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea."

Etc.

Read the actual 2017 Charter

Hamas in 2017: The document in full

Hamas explains general principles and objectives in 42-article document

www.middleeasteye.net

You literaly posted what i claimed, here it is . The 1967 border is explicitly mentioned .

Like it or not Hamas is in all aspects practically an Israeli military contractor created to take over Gaza from PLO and provide distraction while Israelis build settlements in the West Bank. A contractor that occasionally freelances around and bites the hand that feeds it.
Literaly every penny that Hamas gets from foreign sponsors mainly Qatar is hand-delivered in bags of cash to them by Mossad handlers that is the deal they have in place for years now.

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas

Andrew Higgins on how Israel's decades-long dealings with Palestinian Islamists reveal a catalog of unintended and often perilous consequences.

web.archive.org

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/11/middleeast/gaza-qatar-humanitarian-intl/index.html

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus."

Note sovereign state as per June 4th 1967 borders , means Israel stands !!!

 

[theLBC]

bummer. dude ended up killed for his efforts.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/

 

[UKDslayer]

If a 2-state solution were inherently part of HAMAS policy, they wouldn't be launching rockets into Israel for the past 34 years and October 7th would never have happened. You say a two-state "solution" has been part of Hamas' charter since 2017??? Ohhhh so what happened in the 28 years prior to that, exactly? Israel has time and time again attempted to broker peace with Palestine and offered to give them Gaza, the West Bank, and more, free and clear. And each time, Palestine has responded with what amounts to, "No, not until Israel and all Jews are eliminated from the face of the earth." It's too late to wine about a 2-state solution that has never been an actual option to them.



Interesting take.

I wish Israel would just get on with it, take Jersualem back and start building the Third Temple. I'm getting too old for this to drag out.

 

[doubloon]

Note sovereign state as per June 4th 1967 borders , means Israel stands !!!

Pre-47 borders added for scale

 

[UKDslayer]

AMERICA UNDER FIRE: U.S. Warship and Several Commercial Ships Attacked in the Red Sea - Iran-Backed Houthi Rebels Claim Responsibility for Attacking Two Ships | The Gateway Pundit | by Cullen Linebarger

An American warship and several other commercial ships came under attack Sunday in the Red Sea, potentially marking a significant escalation in a series of naval forays in the Mideast linked to the Israel-Hamas war.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[doubloon]

AMERICA UNDER FIRE: U.S. Warship and Several Commercial Ships Attacked in the Red Sea - Iran-Backed Houthi Rebels Claim Responsibility for Attacking Two Ships | The Gateway Pundit | by Cullen Linebarger

An American warship and several other commercial ships came under attack Sunday in the Red Sea, potentially marking a significant escalation in a series of naval forays in the Mideast linked to the Israel-Hamas war.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

"The Pentagon has not identified the culprit behind the attacks."

Probably some guy named Lynch.

 

[theLBC]

Pre-47 borders added for scale

that graphic is misleading for several reasons. for example, there was no nation or state called Palestine, then, or before, or now.

Debunked: Those Maps of 'Palestinian Land Loss' Are Misleading. Here's Why. | HonestReporting

If you've spent some time reading about the Arab-Israeli conflict on the internet, you have most likely encountered a series of maps supposedly outlining

honestreporting.com

 

[UKDslayer]

AMERICA UNDER FIRE: U.S. Warship and Several Commercial Ships Attacked in the Red Sea - Iran-Backed Houthi Rebels Claim Responsibility for Attacking Two Ships | The Gateway Pundit | by Cullen Linebarger

An American warship and several other commercial ships came under attack Sunday in the Red Sea, potentially marking a significant escalation in a series of naval forays in the Mideast linked to the Israel-Hamas war.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Update: Houthi's claiming responsibility.

 

[Rthur]

Pre-47 borders added for scale

I'm going to guess this area existed before 1946.
As one realizes this it should be clear as to the intent of who put this together.


R

 

[theLBC]

Border surveillance footage from 7 October 'disappears': Israeli officers

Israeli reserve officers say surveillance video and audio recordings from the Gaza border during the Hamas attack have been deleted, potentially to prevent an investigation into what happened that day

new.thecradle.co

 

[doubloon]

that graphic is misleading for several reasons. for example, there was no nation or state called Palestine, then, or before, or now.

Debunked: Those Maps of 'Palestinian Land Loss' Are Misleading. Here's Why. | HonestReporting

If you've spent some time reading about the Arab-Israeli conflict on the internet, you have most likely encountered a series of maps supposedly outlining

honestreporting.com

I don't see the word nation or state anywhere on the graphic but the U.N. (fwiw) recognized Palestine as a non-member observer state

 

[doubloon]

I'm going to guess this area existed before 1946.
As one realizes this it should be clear as to the intent of who put this together.


R

"this area" ... the earth? ... this land mass?

Sure, obviously most of the dirt exposed above sea level today existed before 1946.

This area (most of it) also existed before 1776 .

 

[Rthur]

"this area" ... the earth? ... this land mass?

Sure, obviously most of the dirt exposed above sea level today existed before 1946.

This area (most of it) also existed before 1776 .

Nice try.
As we have historically proven documents concerning the area known as Israel I'm sure of what I'm talking about.
They precede the Balfour declaration by more than 2k years.

I'll play.
Name me one group indigenous to your map.


R

 

[Makinchips208]

"this area" ... the earth? ... this land mass?

Sure, obviously most of the dirt exposed above sea level today existed before 1946.

This area (most of it) also existed before 1776 .

Lol

 

[doubloon]

Nice try.
As we have historically proven documents concerning the area known as Israel I'm sure of what I'm talking about.
They precede the Balfour declaration by more than 2k years.

I'll play.
Name me one group indigenous to your map.


R

Well, it's not "my map" but thanks for thinking I have that much artistic talent.

If by "map" you include the area approximately 80 miles south of Jerusalem then there are some Arabs who claim indigenous status in those parts but it's not recognized by the people in power who make the rules. Kinda like we barely remember somebody was living in what we call the United States just over 200 years ago before we started scribbling some borders around their teepees. Imagine how much can be forgotten or erased in more than 2000 years. If all it takes is getting rid of some documents and writing some new ones that say what we want then easy peasy.

But if by indigenous you mean "naturally occuring" in a particular place or "originating" in a particular place then everybody came from somewhere else whether it's one of the three prevailing theories is still not a settled topic (Eden, Africa or Galactica).

If by indigenous you mean got there first then we'll probably need to catalogue all the bones in the dirt for the past 100k-200k years ... unless it's Eden of course, then we only need to go back maybe 6k-8k years.

 

[doubloon]

Lol

View attachment 8287565

Eegggggggggzachary!

Then the white man came and put an end to all that nonsense with massive improvements.

 

[Rthur]

Well, it's not "my map" but thanks for thinking I have that much artistic talent.

If by "map" you include the area approximately 80 miles south of Jerusalem then there are some Arabs who claim indigenous status in those parts but it's not recognized by the people in power who make the rules. Kinda like we barely remember somebody was living in what we call the United States just over 200 years ago before we started scribbling some borders around their teepees. Imagine how much can be forgotten or erased in more than 2000 years. If all it takes is getting rid of some documents and writing some new ones that say what we want then easy peasy.

But if by indigenous you mean "naturally occuring" in a particular place or "originating" in a particular place then everybody came from somewhere else whether it's one of the three prevailing theories is still not a settled topic (Eden, Africa or Galactica).

If by indigenous you mean got there first then we'll probably need to catalogue all the bones in the dirt for the past 100k-200k years ... unless it's Eden of course, then we only need to go back maybe 6k-8k years.

1. Common parlance to describe something particular

2. Sons of Abraham is where to start.

3. Part of my point.

4. Websters current version: a. produced, growing, living, or occurring natively or naturally in a particular region or environment.
b. of or relating to the earliest known inhabitants of a place that was colonized by a now dominate group.

Look closely at that second one.

R

 

[akmike47]

I agree. I learned some lessons the hard way.
When I was 20ish a mob was in the beginning process of assaulting a trucker and his woman over some traffic obstruction dispute. Stupidity on all sides seems like.
Anyways, I shoved a pistol in my pocket and headed to get involved, being dumb I was fully intent on cracking the instigators skull, my older, wiser brother literally grabbed me and said “get in the truck” and we took off.
My brother saved my bacon!!!!
As we were pulling out the cops started showing up.

Anyways, now I have a family to protect. So yeah I might bug out instead.

“a wise monkey is a monkey that doesn’t monkey in another monkey’s business” unknown author.

The Bible verse of Proverbs 16:17 says
“He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.”

But, I have got involved to protect innocent people and would do so again if I felt it was right.

What version says that? That’s not really what that verse is about… not being a dick.

KJV- “The highway of the upright is to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.”

NIV- The highway of the upright avoids evil; those who guard their ways preserve their lives.

I see where you’re going with this, but it’s about keeping your soul preserved, not your physical body from getting attacked. that’s sort of the whole point of the book in the end, save your soul.

dumbed down version-
A sincerely religious man keeps at a distance from every appearance of evil. Happy is the man that walks in Christ, and is led by the Spirit of Christ.

​

 

[Makinchips208]

What version says that? That’s not really what that verse is about… not being a dick.

KJV- “The highway of the upright is to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.”

NIV- The highway of the upright avoids evil; those who guard their ways preserve their lives.

I see where you’re going with this, but it’s about keeping your soul preserved, not your physical body from getting attacked. that’s sort of the whole point of the book in the end, save your soul.

dumbed down version-
A sincerely religious man keeps at a distance from every appearance of evil. Happy is the man that walks in Christ, and is led by the Spirit of Christ.

​

Oh man! I typed the wrong chapter. Good catch and thank you.
Should have said 26:17

 

[SilentStalkr]

Land is a funny thing, people like to say the spoils go to the victor, but how many here own land that they’d like to have to defend all the time? Where do we draw the line? I mean if countries do it, it’s acceptable. If people do it, you go to jail and lose your land. Nowadays, mobs of teenagers rob people like shoe stores and the store owner cannot protect his shit and people say let the teenagers do their thing because it’s insured and paid for. Those idiots clearly don’t understand the rule of law and order and that someone has to pay for that shit, insured or not. We are a funny ass species, that’s all I’m gonna say.