22 cal Slug/lead bullet BC's

[steve123]

This is why I've gone to slugs for my more powerful pcp's, specifically the Altaros slugs, for the longer distance shooting and competitions.

Way back many years ago here on SH I learned about environmentals and have been applying that knowledge to airguns ever since.
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I can't help but admire Matt because he's always been a straight forward guy and a great shooter.

Hopefully these new X slugs will be a cheaper alternative than Altaros when they arrive on the market.

Yes I also have less powerful sub 30 fpe pcp's that I use pellets in exclusively but it's quite a different experience. I appreciate both types of projectiles and the attributes each offer.

 

[Basher]

I struggle with the idea of slugs right now, primarily because if I really need the added performance that they offer, I can get it for the same cost (or less) with a .22LR. A good rimfire doesn’t need the expense of an air tank, compressor, or a reseal job when it leaks, and still produces more fpe than almost any air rifle of reasonable/equal cost. There’s also a lot less effort with their set up, as most don’t need “tuning” to shoot well. The right ammo, yes, but tuning, generally no. My understanding is slugs usually take a bit more work to really squeeze everything out of them.

Pellets, on the other hand, fill the void below ~100fpe, are still cheaper to shoot than a rimfire, and easier to get good groups out of. A PCP shooting pellets will still need the same support equipment as one shooting slugs, but I accept that as a necessary evil to gain the flexibility of use that non-firearm, lower fpe air rifles offer.

Now, that all being said, I’m watching the slug space as it makes advancements in design and what have you. When shooting slugs becomes nearly as easy as pellets while offering significant performance advantages, I’ll consider making the switch (or at least adding them in to my current options). I think they’ll reach that point in the next decade, if not sooner!

 

[steve123]

I struggle with the idea of slugs right now, primarily because if I really need the added performance that they offer, I can get it for the same cost (or less) with a .22LR. A good rimfire doesn’t need the expense of an air tank, compressor, or a reseal job when it leaks, and still produces more fpe than almost any air rifle of reasonable/equal cost. There’s also a lot less effort with their set up, as most don’t need “tuning” to shoot well. The right ammo, yes, but tuning, generally no. My understanding is slugs usually take a bit more work to really squeeze everything out of them.

Pellets, on the other hand, fill the void below ~100fpe, are still cheaper to shoot than a rimfire, and easier to get good groups out of. A PCP shooting pellets will still need the same support equipment as one shooting slugs, but I accept that as a necessary evil to gain the flexibility of use that non-firearm, lower fpe air rifles offer.

Now, that all being said, I’m watching the slug space as it makes advancements in design and what have you. When shooting slugs becomes nearly as easy as pellets while offering significant performance advantages, I’ll consider making the switch (or at least adding them in to my current options). I think they’ll reach that point in the next decade, if not sooner!

Yep I know what you mean because it's easy to just grab the 22rf's we already have and go for it. A downside that got me with 22rf not but a few years back was how expensive the higher quality 22rf ammo became, the availability, the lot testing then hoping that lot was still in stock, and a biggy for me became the not so great SD's of even the good ammo. This all kinda drove me to get into my airguns more since I already had a compressor, etc.

One Thomas HPX pcp I have I swage slugs for and I get 4400 of them out of a 25 pound spool of lead wire I bought for $165. Expensive rifle but super cheap to shoot! I shot the smallest 100Y group with this combo compared to my expensive Anschutz 1827F which was almost no vertical and .35" wide. Also hit our 1" spinner 9 times in a row at 100Y with that combo.

The other more powerful pcp's I've been using the Altaros slugs. These slugs are amazing! .245 G1 BC for the 25 cal 60 grainers and 99fpe! Doing a sidebyside at 250Y against my 22rf in the wind these slugs will stay on the steel whereas the 22rf won't. BC, BC, BC and low ES too!!!

Just a 3 weeks ago I shot a 5 shot group at 132Y that was less than an inch with my Skout using 32.3gr Altaros slugs with a .18 G1 BC and it wasn't calm out. It's only 49 fpe as well which is half the energy of a standard velocity 22rf.
Then at 200Y a few weeks ago I was hitting 3-4" steel without much fuss.
That's where slugs come into their own vs pellets.

And today I was shooting my Steyr ProX pcp using 18gr JSB pellets and at 50Y I was holding off in the wind what I did at 132Y using the slugs in the Skout. It's pretty huge the difference.

Yeah if any manufacturer ever builds a stoutly made pcp repeater for PRS then I'll get in line to buy one. About that time pcp's will have firmly caught up with 22rf and possibly surpassed it. Meaning no POI shifts, even higher BC slugs, low ES by a lot, and sub moa at distance. Almost there.

But pcp's are not without their hassles.

I live out of the city limits and I can shoot my air rifles on my property but not firearms because I'm less than 400Y from my nearest neighbor.

 

[jwrabbit123]

Where I live I can shoot 22 rimfire for hunting but not in yard but i can shoot in yard and have a range 50 75 100 yards 129 yards and 200 yards , it is not legal to hunt or shoot 25 caliber pellets even sub 12 foot pounds , laws need updating here , but I own a few 22 lr including a model 52 winchester and i have 5- 22 cals that are way more accurate with slugs then any rimfire I owned , I swag 22 cal up to 60 gr and my favorite cast slug is the mp botail same slug altaros first slugs were copied from , we were casting them in 2016 for our edguns for taking out coyotes here , we have huge issue with them since farm lands being sold and subdivisions going up , with neighbors here raising chickens and everyone has small dogs coyotes running in large numbers , in past 2 yrs I got 19 of them with pcp guns in my yard , we have 2 dachsunds last month one yote ran up deck stairs and was trying to get in slider at the pups , we get woken up most nights with howlings , i see pack of them with my halox , but I only take out ones which are too close to my and neighbors pets , But to get into airguns is very pricey , not as pricy as when I shot url however but yes they need more maintance then rimfire guns , some platforms are very stout and reliable and some always fail .I own a 30 caliber called a western rattler , great accurate gun it shoots 88 grain slugs 975fps and sub moa at 200 yards but horribly unreliable , where as I have a edgun r5m with 20000 slugs threw it and not 1 single failure , I dont even shoot my rimfires no more last time i did I noticed ammo horrible fps spreads all over place , with a bunch of ammos I tried I prefer airguns for low power shooting

 

[steve123]

Where I live I can shoot 22 rimfire for hunting but not in yard but i can shoot in yard and have a range 50 75 100 yards 129 yards and 200 yards , it is not legal to hunt or shoot 25 caliber pellets even sub 12 foot pounds , laws need updating here , but I own a few 22 lr including a model 52 winchester and i have 5- 22 cals that are way more accurate with slugs then any rimfire I owned , I swag 22 cal up to 60 gr and my favorite cast slug is the mp botail same slug altaros first slugs were copied from , we were casting them in 2016 for our edguns for taking out coyotes here , we have huge issue with them since farm lands being sold and subdivisions going up , with neighbors here raising chickens and everyone has small dogs coyotes running in large numbers , in past 2 yrs I got 19 of them with pcp guns in my yard , we have 2 dachsunds last month one yote ran up deck stairs and was trying to get in slider at the pups , we get woken up most nights with howlings , i see pack of them with my halox , but I only take out ones which are too close to my and neighbors pets , But to get into airguns is very pricey , not as pricy as when I shot url however but yes they need more maintance then rimfire guns , some platforms are very stout and reliable and some always fail .I own a 30 caliber called a western rattler , great accurate gun it shoots 88 grain slugs 975fps and sub moa at 200 yards but horribly unreliable , where as I have a edgun r5m with 20000 slugs threw it and not 1 single failure , I dont even shoot my rimfires no more last time i did I noticed ammo horrible fps spreads all over place , with a bunch of ammos I tried I prefer airguns for low power shooting

Same here. Even though a friend of mine got so old he quit shooting, thus selling me cases of match 22rf for 40% of todays prices, I hardly shoot the rimfires. It's like a 1-5 ratio if comparing to the airguns.

My Skout EVO is kinda like your Western. Man what a cluster of problems but that thing shoots awesome and possesses a long list of very nice attributes.

Ha my Western Mordax Venom should arrive today. Hope they have all the problems resolved.

 

[jwrabbit123]

Same here. Even though a friend of mine got so old he quit shooting, thus selling me cases of match 22rf for 40% of todays prices, I hardly shoot the rimfires. It's like a 1-5 ratio if comparing to the airguns.

My Skout EVO is kinda like your Western. Man what a cluster of problems but that thing shoots awesome and possesses a long list of very nice attributes.

Ha my Western Mordax Venom should arrive today. Hope they have all the problems resolved.

my friend had morax here sold it in 2 days it shot ok but pellets only and was air hog i shot it but I think it was 1.5 mag gun , it had the tube , he settled with that newer company like american air arms called epic i liked it but heavy but they came out with different stock dropping it almost 2 pounds , very nice to tune , cocked so much better then evols i had both and i also shot his mini 30 with submoa barrel he dumped it as it was not as good as his leshiy2

 

[steve123]

I didn't have the best experience with the 30 cal EVOL either.

I'm not shooting my Mordax Venom till late next week on my camping trip so we'll find out then.
Hopefully the Submoa barrel in it performs. I got it from Tom that his new barrel honer is working well. Fingers crossed.

My Steyr ProX 22 cal shoots really well for a semiautomatic so that's the benchmark to meet or surpass.

 

[jwrabbit123]

I didn't have the best experience with the 30 cal EVOL either.

I'm not shooting my Mordax Venom till late next week on my camping trip so we'll find out then.
Hopefully the Submoa barrel in it performs. I got it from Tom that his new barrel honer is working well. Fingers crossed.

My Steyr ProX 22 cal shoots really well for a semiautomatic so that's the benchmark to meet or surpass.

steve i got a styer pro also , and a truck camper we use for me and daschunds lol hey have u tried the zeiss lrp ? I am thinking of getting one

 

[jwrabbit123]

my Styer is great also no glitches and accurate low power but accurate i swag tiny slugs for it and just started using 14 gr jsb instead of 18 gr they are 50% off at utah so i got me 15 tins , and 24 gr shoot fast and very accurate and fit in mags perfect not loos and fall out and not tight where u got to seat , when I got my mini 2 days it was on table it blew apart the screw into cocking seared , and took out hammer , spring, adjusting cap probe ect , gun was new never apart I called tom for 3 months to get parts nothing , emails and everything i was ready to throw it in pond i called Shane at aoa he spend many hrs this was in covid tom sent him parts 6 mo later he call me and apologized and showed me a $250 invoice and said he charged them he was upset I said don't worry paid it , and replaced parts and sold gun saying never again with him and i dumped my 30 as well I wont buy a moa barrel as he is owner of them im done with that , I know since then I think aoa owns part of airarms and now stocks most parts but i am still done with his brand dhanr id great guy , I am helping guys now with slayers in .452 that cant source parts and breached full of epoxy I dont own cnc only small lathe . its as bad as edguns got since they been cloned with chinese parts i had 25 here , when ED made them no failures now all hard parts breaking got to be careful with buying used , if trigger is medal it is eds if plastic its not eds gun as even sn can be changed I wont part with eds guns I own even leshiy one is reproduced lelys, matador R5 . ed made parts from alum now things made powered casted and just dont hold up.
update I pulled trigger last nite and ordered Zeiss LRP S5 5x25 mil ffp scope the S5 uses the scott glass like in Hensoldt and tangent theta , cant wait to try it out

 

[steve123]

my friend had morax here sold it in 2 days it shot ok but pellets only and was air hog i shot it but I think it was 1.5 mag gun , it had the tube , he settled with that newer company like american air arms called epic i liked it but heavy but they came out with different stock dropping it almost 2 pounds , very nice to tune , cocked so much better then evols i had both and i also shot his mini 30 with submoa barrel he dumped it as it was not as good as his leshiy2

My Western Mordax "Venom", which is a important model distinction from the standard Mordax, has a 300cc bottle on it instead of the tube so it gets a lot more shots per fill. How much I won't know until next week because the testing of it is something I'm reserving until then. You know how it is camping - it's nice to relax for a while and then one is looking for activities to pass the time so shooting this Venom will be one of them.

 

[steve123]

steve i got a styer pro also , and a truck camper we use for me and daschunds lol hey have u tried the zeiss lrp ? I am thinking of getting one

It wouldn't be as fun without the doggies, right?!

I haven't tried that scope. Honestly I've just been buying Athlon's lately because they are such a good value per quality and I get a good price on them.

That being said I'd like to try every nice scope out there, wouldn't we all, right?!

 

[steve123]

my Styer is great also no glitches and accurate low power but accurate i swag tiny slugs for it and just started using 14 gr jsb instead of 18 gr they are 50% off at utah so i got me 15 tins , and 24 gr shoot fast and very accurate and fit in mags perfect not loos and fall out and not tight where u got to seat , when I got my mini 2 days it was on table it blew apart the screw into cocking seared , and took out hammer , spring, adjusting cap probe ect , gun was new never apart I called tom for 3 months to get parts nothing , emails and everything i was ready to throw it in pond i called Shane at aoa he spend many hrs this was in covid tom sent him parts 6 mo later he call me and apologized and showed me a $250 invoice and said he charged them he was upset I said don't worry paid it , and replaced parts and sold gun saying never again with him and i dumped my 30 as well I wont buy a moa barrel as he is owner of them im done with that , I know since then I think aoa owns part of airarms and now stocks most parts but i am still done with his brand dhanr id great guy , I am helping guys now with slayers in .452 that cant source parts and breached full of epoxy I dont own cnc only small lathe . its as bad as edguns got since they been cloned with chinese parts i had 25 here , when ED made them no failures now all hard parts breaking got to be careful with buying used , if trigger is medal it is eds if plastic its not eds gun as even sn can be changed I wont part with eds guns I own even leshiy one is reproduced lelys, matador R5 . ed made parts from alum now things made powered casted and just dont hold up.
update I pulled trigger last nite and ordered Zeiss LRP S5 5x25 mil ffp scope the S5 uses the scott glass like in Hensoldt and tangent theta , cant wait to try it out

I actually know Tom. It's weird because he's a very nice guy and easy to get a long with but CS is pretty bad and I don't understand the disconnect going on????? That was his best move getting in with AOA because he has to be at least a little accountable to Robert. Yes I feel sorry for those left with problems with lengthy unresolved issues, and /or haven't received a solution. This is part of the reason I gave that EVOL back to him which I was sponsored with.

Didn't know that about Edgun and I haven't owned one yet. Ed was supposed to come out with a true Fortner style pcp Biathon rifle this year which would have been my first but I never heard anything about it again.

I'm sure that'll be a great scope!

 

[jwrabbit123]

yed bottle will be key with more shots , I liked tom it just you know like buying a car you need parts I waited well over 6 months , I was dissapointed , I expected better service with a expensive airgun , not that it broke but to wait 6 months is reason I sold all of them , my friend just bought his new mini 30 cal with external adjustments and moa barrel we shot it here at my place , it is improved the cocking and accuracy was good also , just to let you know , but he sold it because he has the l2 and it did not do any more , when he craked reg and hst it was a 1.5 mag gun per fill , and loud due to short barrel , but as a pellet shooter it is great setup
also ed is making the new gun . iI will buy that one it will be semi auto . Brian has shot them also he told my friends

 

[jwrabbit123]

HOW IS MORAX? DID U TRY IT

 

[steve123]

HOW IS MORAX? DID U TRY IT

No.
From the outside I like it a lot but that's all I have to say right now.

Most likely next Friday for initial try out but there's no reception back where I'll be camping. Might give a quick report if I go into town.

 

[jwrabbit123]

OK I WILL BE LOOKING TO SEE HAVE FUN

 

[jps2486]

Utah Airguns is now selling Air Marksman slugs. These have been developed and swaged by Corbin and are more accurate than rimfires.

 

[Drumie]

They MDT guys that just won RMAC said that their FX guns can out shoot any rimfire gun they own. This is a great video about it all.
1hr 21min is when they say that.
Also the great thing about slugs and airguns is you can tune your gun for the slugs. You don't have to buy a bunch of different lots of ammo to test to see what your gun likes. And if you make your own slugs, like I do, you can tune the slugs for the gun as well by changing the slugs weight. Also for my living in NY it is a no brainer now. I have to pay for a ammo back ground check when ever I get ammo. And I can have a suppressor on my airgun but not on any firearms.

 

[Skok3y]

I love the idea of the slugs catching up to rimfires, but as you said, we need some actual air rifles that can be consistent. Air rifles might have consistent ammo unlike rimfires, but rimfires have consistent rifles.

Take for example that Skout… I have never seen an air rifle have so many problems just to fill the dang gun and stay filled! Accurate but a pain to deal with. Seems like FX has a few rifles that have excelled in slugs, but their reg issues and wondering POI issues keep them from being consistent enough to actually compete with rimfires too.

It is nice to pull the CZ out with its favorite ammo and know I will have zero issues.

 

[Drumie]

At least with the air rifles we can get a ES in the 2-3fps. They can be very consistent. With the FX rifles they seemed to have somewhat fixed the POI shift with the Panthera/Dynamic guns along with the DRS. They are much better than what the Impact was but still could be better.
I really like the design of the American Air Arms and also the Epic 2. They have a true tension barrel system and it threads into the receiver. They feel more like a real rifle than most air guns. And the Epic 2 can put out some good power to shoot the slugs at the speeds they want to go. But I would like to see a company really build a air gun like a rimfire. Beefy like that.

 

[Skok3y]

At least with the air rifles we can get a ES in the 2-3fps. They can be very consistent. With the FX rifles they seemed to have somewhat fixed the POI shift with the Panthera/Dynamic guns along with the DRS. They are much better than what the Impact was but still could be better.
I really like the design of the American Air Arms and also the Epic 2. They have a true tension barrel system and it threads into the receiver. They feel more like a real rifle than most air guns. And the Epic 2 can put out some good power to shoot the slugs at the speeds they want to go. But I would like to see a company really build an air gun like a rimfire. Beefy like that.

Yes. The ammo is consistent. Now just need a rifle that can handle the high power without worrying about the reg or the orings or barrel attachment system. We are close, but we need more than the ammo.

The Evol looks nice and that barrel is nice, but I didn’t see any improvement over an RTI Prophet II in actual shooting and that rifle is years old.

 

[Drumie]

I have a RTI Mora in 357 and comparing it to my Slayer 357, The Mora is slightly more accurate, has about the same power and gets a lot more shots on a fill, 9 vs 4 at full power. The Mora seems to be more refined but it isn't built like the Slayer. If I dropped the Mora I would be scared it would break something. The Slayer If I dropped it I would have no worries. But yes we need a company to put out some guns built like tanks, have great regs and are accurate.

 

[jwrabbit123]

YES the slayer heftier but you can get any part for mora in a few days and unfortunitaly slayer u cant , my friend has a slayer and has been trying to get a lower breeck as it is messed up and leaking and no one answered his emails or phone for 7 weeks so he just shipped it to a place in texas , but the airarms evols yes airguns of arizona has parts in stock now for them , they dont handle slayer parts ,
in .357 I have a FX king 600mm shoots great it was 250 bar fill with a 500 cc tank I put a larger 1.1l tank and a 300 bar valve gets like alot of shots now per fill and can even sling 127 gr slugs i swage