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2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cashalanche</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will i be required to have the healstrap on pack mounted holsters in addition to a serpa lock?
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Any holster connected to the pack waist-belt must be a closed retention-style flap holster*. Cross-draw configurations are not allowed regardless of where the holster is mounted. (* <span style="text-decoration: underline">For the purposes of this rule, a holster is a flap holster if it has a movable part that covers the rear of the pistol and physically prevents the pistol from leaving the holster, and is held in position by some mechanism such as a hook, latch, button, etc. A retention holster without a rear flap does not quality.</span>) </div></div>
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5x47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are you, team members, using for ear protection and how are you carrying it? In a perfect world I'd love to use my Sordin MSA's, to hear the metal clang of the steel reactive targets, but am afraid of damaging them.

6.5x47 </div></div>

Peltors, wrapped in my jacket.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cashalanche</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will i be required to have the healstrap on pack mounted holsters in addition to a serpa lock?
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Any holster connected to the pack waist-belt must be a closed retention-style flap holster*. Cross-draw configurations are not allowed regardless of where the holster is mounted. (* <span style="text-decoration: underline">For the purposes of this rule, a holster is a flap holster if it has a movable part that covers the rear of the pistol and physically prevents the pistol from leaving the holster, and is held in position by some mechanism such as a hook, latch, button, etc. A retention holster without a rear flap does not quality.</span>) </div></div> </div></div>

If we carry a belt mounted holster (not on the pack), does it have to have a "closed retention-style flap holster?"
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rules do not say that.</div></div>

Are we permitted to use a non-rear-strap holster (aka normal level 2 SERPA) on our belt during shooting stages, but stored in our pack or on the hipbelt during all other portions of the match? Alternatively, can we just hotglue a damn bungee strap onto a SERPA to function as an makeshift retention flap? I'm sure the answer to both questions is probably 'no', but figure it's worth asking.

From the sounds of that rule, for those of us using SERPAs we're either forced to use the SERPA on a leg platform, or buy a whole new L3 holster system entirely. I'd really prefer not to buy a completely new holster I've never used before this soon, but I definitely missed that mention in the rules...
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<span style="font-style: italic">"Holster may be "mounted" to your person or to your pack only."</span> If it's not mounted to your person, it must be mounted to the pack waist belt <span style="font-style: italic">"in such a manner that it can be drawn by the competitor without removing his pack"</span> In summary, no you cannot put it in your pack ever. It's either in a <span style="font-style: italic">"closed retention-style flap holster"</span> on your pack waist belt, or in a <span style="font-style: italic">"holster that will retain the pistol during vigorous activity"</span> on your person. Also note that <span style="font-style: italic">"Cross-draw configurations are not allowed regardless of where the holster is mounted."</span>

It would be pretty easy to add a snap or hook rear strap to most holsters if you're not worried about doing modifications... but it does have to actually add solid retention.

A cheap option would be something along the lines of a SafePacker or other similar design, or just a regular military style flap holster-- if you want to mount it to your pack waist belt.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

I wouldn't use a digital compass as a primary. It should be the other way around. They are highly sensitive to metal objects on your kit.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

There have been a few questions about the "military style emergency strobe light."

This means a SDU-5/E or MS-2000 or equivalent. The white strobe must have 250,000 peak lumens and a rate of between 40 and 60 flashes per minute.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Thanks in advance for the dead horse beating.

Can I call my compass mirror the 'signal mirror' in the required list?
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This means a SDU-5/E or MS-2000 or equivalent. The white strobe must have 250,000 peak lumens and a rate of between 40 and 60 flashes per minute. </div></div>I have a secret-squirrel military IR 1500nm strobe. But I am now, officially, drawing the line on spending more of my money on certified crap that does the same job as non-certified crap.

So, word of warning: I plan on using a bicycle light for the red strobe because, at 51.5 lbs, I am overweight for doing a 30-miler without injury as it is.

Mark Twight once said that most of us have a threshold short of serious harm, while others are willing to irreparably damage themselves in order to achieve what they want to achieve. I know which one I was once upon a time. But now, today, I have no idea which one I am.

So I'm looking forward to it: FTW; and I'll see y'all there.
laugh.gif
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

The required gear list has two strobes on it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
e. 1 military-style emergency strobe light - white (emergency use only) - SDU-5/E or MS-2000 or equivalent (the white strobe must have 250,000 peak lumens and a rate of between 40 and 60 flashes per minute.)
f. 1 red flashing strobe bike-type light (to worn in the hours of darkness)
</div></div>
Penalties for missing items will be -100 points/item at check-in and -20 points/item during the race (per instance). I will be posting a draft of the match packet in the next couple days with the rest of the scoring details.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will be posting a draft of the match packet in the next couple days with the rest of the scoring details. </div></div>Awesome!
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

ARC'TERYX LEAF is the Official Outerwear of the 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE!

From their press release today:

July 2012
(VANCOUVER, BC) ENDURANCE AND DISCIPLINE: ARC’TERYX
LEAF TEAMS UP WITH DELIBERATE DYNAMICS IN SUPPORT OF 24
HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE
Deliberate Dynamics and Arc’teryx LEAF have teamed up to support this year’s 24 Hour Sniper Adventure Challenge, presented by Competition Dynamics and Thunder Beast Arms Corporation. The Challenge is a two day mastermind of physical, mental and tactical problems that truly puts
competitors through their paces.

Held at the Sniper Country Training Facility in Utah on July 27-29, the match takes place on extremely rough high desert terrain. Participants must navigate their way through shooting, assault, identification and decision-making stages as two-man teams, without support, night vision or GPS equipment. It is an exceptional performance challenge for both the athletes and their equipment.

The teams are evaluated on the time taken plus the accumulation of points gained by achieving required targets, successful completion of challenges and performance on the field. "Mental and physical preparation and gear selection will be critical for teams coming to this event. We are pleased to have Arc’teryx LEAF on board as the Official Outerwear Sponsor for the 2012 24-Hour Sniper Adventure Challenge, stated Zak Smith, CEO of Competition Dynamics."

As a Gold Level Sponsor, Arc’teryx LEAF supports the event and the participants in their continual efforts to excel. Look for Arc’teryx LEAF on location.

For more info visit: http://competition-dynamics.com/24-hour-sniperadventure-challenge-2012/
Contact: Marc Elbaz [email protected]
_____________________________________________
Like us on FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/competitiondynamics
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<span style="font-weight: bold">IMPORTANT UPDATES</span>

DRAFT COPIES of the MATCH HANDOUT and WAIVER

This a glimpse a the current working draft. It's subject to change and you'll get the final version at check-in on Friday.

ALSO:

EACH TEAM MUST BRING AT LEAST 6 AA BATTERIES FOR RADIO OPERATION - HIGH ENERGY TYPE RECOMMENDED. 12 Recommended.

Reminder - there is a $130 deposit required for the radios. Cash or check at match check-in, full refund upon return of working radio.



 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Just read over the draft rules. Question: in the match handout that you just posted you have the starting time for the match on friday at 0400 but on the match website you have the starting time as 1600. Which is it?
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the purposes of the cross-draw rule, let's say the pistol has to be to the "strong side" of your center line (belt buckle to chin).

The dude is about a second away from sweeping himself in this photo BTW
http://hillpeoplegear.com/Portals/21/SmithCart/Images/KitBag_RGb.jpg </div></div>

So, unless I hear otherwise this Kit Bag is a prohibited method of carrying.

6.5x47
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Another question: the match draft says that lights attached to your pistol are ok. Does this include lasers?

Thanks for your quick replies.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Zak, first off I appreciate your quick responses to the posts here and I can't wait for this match. I would like to mention that I would be highly appreciative if there were no more surprises. I have been pouring money out on getting prepared for this match and it seems late for any additional specs or requirements to be added to the match. The strobe light specs being the most recent surprise for me. It's under three weeks till go time and many of us will be traveling etc, I would really like to have a shot at being prepared without any more surprises or expenses. If there is anything not specified on the web page in detail that I have to find on a forum or be surprised about please update it ASAP.

Thank you very much, and I mean no disrespect.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cashalanche</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you very much, and I mean no disrespect. </div></div>Zak, I'm with him... Don't add any more stuff... Have mercy, I'm already over 51 lbs with 4 lites of water because my partner is bigger than I am and he said that I'm stuck carrying the bolt-gun.
laugh.gif
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

I understand your concerns. However, the requirement for the "military style strobe" light is not a recent addition. It's been there from the first day we posted the gear list:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">1 military-style emergency strobe light - white (emergency use only)</span></span></div></div>

If someone does not know what a military style emergency strobe light (white) is and does honest research to find the answer, they will come to one conclusion: it's an SDU-5/E or an MS-2000 or something that is functionally identical.

I clarified specifically because I had people asking if a flashing mode on an LED headlamp would meet the criteria: <span style="font-style: italic">no!</span>

Our intention is not to load you down with extra junk or make you buy a whole bunch of stuff. But this is a hazardous event with the potential for people to get lost or hurt at night and we need to make sure everyone has a baseline level of survival equipment.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

You mean, if I paint my strobe in camo, like my rifle, that doesn't make it 'military style'??!!

I'm shocked.... Shocked, I tell you! LOL!
laugh.gif
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand your concerns. However, the requirement for the "military style strobe" light is not a recent addition. It's been there from the first day we posted the gear list:
1 military-style emergency strobe light - white (emergency use only)]</div></div>



Well using your exact terms this is what I googled and found and bought sure hope it fits the bill.

http://www.lelandltd.com/products/strobelights.html

6.5x47
Click to expand...
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6.5x47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Zak Smith said:
I understand your concerns. However, the requirement for the "military style strobe" light is not a recent addition. It's been there from the first day we posted the gear list:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 military-style emergency strobe light - white (emergency use only)]</div></div>



Well using your exact terms this is what I googled and found and bought sure hope it fits the bill.

http://www.lelandltd.com/products/strobelights.html

6.5x47 </div></div>

I bought the same thing. I figured it was what was being described since it was USCG approved.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

That unit has a high voltage xenon strobe bulb of the same type (as far as I can tell) as the SDU-5/E, so it should be fine. The color of the light emitted should be white (no filters).
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Zak, did I miss something?

The rules say that use of a GPS device will incur an 'extreme penalty' that can be waived by the match director.

The handout says that if a seal is broken on any sealed device the penalty is -200 points.

Because 200 points does not appear to be an 'extreme penalty':

1) Is there an an additional penalty for use of GPS?
2) How will that penalty be incurred?
3) Does waiver by the match director mean that there is a procedure by which teams can quit, then break the seal and use their GPS, yet maintain the points they had when they quit?

Otherwise, and I'm not suggesting that anyone do it, with a 200 point penalty for a broken seal one could discreetly use the GPS to pick up all 18 bonus chackpoints and, if not seen by the ROs, end up +160 points (not that anyone would ever even think of cheating
wink.gif
).
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Zak,
Could you PM me about the radio issue? You mentioned some time ago to PM you if we wanted to use our own and you're not accepting PMs right now. I might want to do that depending on what type you're planning on using.
-power
-Band/frequencies
-Mode
-size/weight
-Battery life

Thanks. Sorry for all the questions.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

I will be a RO at this event. I have a SDU-5/E (with the conversion cap for CR123's) and a pen flare kit one team can borrow if needed - so long as I get it back after the match.

A few of us RO's are leaving on Thursday afternoon from Denver and should be available Friday morning before the match. I do not know what Zak has in store for us when we arrive.

If you are in need of one - please send me a PM here. First come first served. <span style="font-weight: bold">DONE - LOANED TO VINSON</span>

James
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Graham,

Good catch. That was a mistake in the document, the penalty for breaking the seal on your gps, cell phone, etc, pouch should have been 1000 points. Also, there may be more than 18 bonus checkpoints.

As for your question #3, the intent of waiving the penalty was that if you need to render immediate aid to someone during the event and you need to break out your GPS and/or cell phone, etc, to summon aid quickly, the assisting team will not be penalized for using them in those circumstances. If a team wants to just quit and use their GPS to get out, they need to establish radio contact with race control to communicate when and where they are dropping out. Since they would not be in the race from that point on (no more possibility to gain points), there would be no penalty for using the GPS to "administratively" navigate out.

Pinsandpitons, email me.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

As far as I can tell, a lock picking kit is not listed in the required gear list. I did read earlier that this may be a skill that is tested. Is this something that has been nixed? Haven't heard anything about it in a while.

If this is information that will be given at the match, apologies.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

maybe next year ... just need to find a partner
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Check-in and race start is at the SniperCountry lodge at the provided coordinates. Most of the hard land nav and challenges will be within the boxed area, though.

As far as the light goes, if it's a xenon strobe that's approximately as bright and has the same blink speed as the spec'd strobes, and it emits white light, it will be OK. Most of these do not specify the flash intensity in their specs.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

So can I assume the radios are GMRS or FRS 'talkabout' style? So channel p4.1 is 462.6375MHz with an 88.5 PL? 0.3 Watts?
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one that has poured buckets of cash in for the race.


Bigfeet

P.S. I'm not complaining just saying.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Yeah, the required gear list is kind of ridiculous, all in the name of safety, but why isn't one strobe per team good enough? This is the same logic that makes our guys in the military carry too much crap to be effective and invite injury.

In the case of this competition I suspect a lot of it has to do with satisfying insurance requirements.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zion zig zag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, the required gear list is kind of ridiculous, all in the name of safety, but why isn't one strobe per team good enough? This is the same logic that makes our guys in the military carry too much crap to be effective and invite injury.

In the case of this competition I suspect a lot of it has to do with satisfying insurance requirements. </div></div>

I've been adventure racing for 12 years. We are getting off cheap for this kind of race. An entry into primal quest would buy several gap rifles. The required gear for most adventure races, if you don't already have it, might often buy a nice optic.

Understand, once a race gets going, lots of things happen, and they are not always good. Teams get separated, dehydration, heat stroke, hypothermia, hypotremia, whatever set in. People freak out. Rocks fall on people. People, out of food and water, have torn off all their clothes and ran off into the forest. People die. I've been part of races where things have gone really bad (people have died) and it sucks.


Insurance is part of it, and part of it is having enough stuff to get your own behind out of a sling, or at least stable, until help, if it is even available, can make it.

I understand the cost adds up, but we are getting to do a very unique event, and if a $60 strobe that meets the requirements is what it takes to play, I'll do it. And stack it next to my other, slightly different strobe I needed for another race, and the riverboard I listed on craigslist that nobody seems to want...
smile.gif



 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

Hey Bigfeet17 and Zion zig zag-
who gives a crap about your opinion? If you don't want to purchase gear that insures your safety, than don't do the event. It is that simple and no need to go bustin on the guys who are working hard to make this a fun event but more importantly a safe event.

To Zak and his crew - Bravo Zulu, Charlie Mike. My team is really excited and looking forward to this special event!
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Bigfeet17 and Zion zig zag-
who gives a crap about your opinion? If you don't want to purchase gear that insures your safety, than don't do the event. It is that simple and no need to go bustin on the guys who are working hard to make this a fun event but more importantly a safe event.

To Zak and his crew - Bravo Zulu, Charlie Mike. My team is really excited and looking forward to this special event!

</div></div>

Well, my opinion is just that, and I'm entitled to it. And I'm not opposed to buying safety gear that ensures my safety, I'm opposed to buying safety gear that does nothing to ensure my safety.
 
Re: 2012 24-HOUR SNIPER ADVENTURE CHALLENGE

We are going to have competitors spread out for miles in extremely rugged country, off trail, at night, and with no GPS. This will be beyond some competitors' abilities to navigate successfully and beyond some competitors' physical abilities. Even if the intended back-country race area is "only" maybe 15 square miles, there is nothing stopping a lost team from wandering miles outside of the property boundaries by accident, which expands the search area dramatically. If someone strays a mile outside that increases the possible area by over 2x.

Like SRSDriver said, we have a pretty minimal "required gear" list; it is there to provide a baseline of safety equipment out in the field so that a lost team (or those coming to their aid) has a better chance of success (which means being found and surviving and reducing the impact of injuries).
 
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