Reloading by OGIVE for LMT test W/pics

[elfster1234]

Hello everyone. Figured I would go to the range tomorrow and test out a new batch of reloaded ammo for my LMT MWS, but with a new twist... seating bullets by OGIVE and not by COAL (cartridge over all length). New to reloading here, but hopefully I'm on the right track now that I have my new hornady bullet comparator insert / kit so I can measure my LMT's particular OGIVE dependant upon the bullet I'm reloading (will be different depending on the type of bullet being used such as sierra matchking 180grn vs hornady 168 amax bullets).... Just make sure you don't use any of this info!! This is all based upon my rifle, my bullets, my OGIVE.. Everyone's measurements and load data will be different.

I should be able to post the <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">results tomorrow</span></span> with 5shot group pictures. Using sierra matchking 180grn with a small batch of <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">IMR4895 @ max load</span></span> AND small batch of <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">varget @ max load</span></span>.

Figured I would kick in some cool pictures of some of my reloading process for my LMT MWS with a very phychedelic screen saver picture of inside my LMT barrel!!!


cleaning brass in thumbler's tumbler with stainless steel media

removing the stainless media

dumping stainless media back in tumbler

nice clean brass

sorting bullets

checking headspace

my LMT's "ogive" using SMK 180grn hpbt

seated ogive with .015 jump, enough to clear PMAG

example COAL from my ogive seating depth

just clearing the PMAG with enough room of opperational stability

varget VS IMR4895

cool screen saver

 

[OldGuardShooter]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

Looking forward to the report..

 

[elfster1234]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

Before I ran out to the range I loaded up some more 168grn AMAX by ogive seating depth with multiple varget grain charges 40.5 / 41 / 41.5 / and 42. Ammo just cleared the PMAG:

 

[elfster1234]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

Well, to make a long story short I think it is safe to say my LMT just doesn't like 180grn SMK @ max load. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get my groups under 1moa. All groups were a bit over 1moa. Maybe I'll play around with the powder loads a bit, but so far I'm not impressed with the 180grn SMK BTHP one bit. The IMR 4895 and Varget @ max loads was about the same. Not sure if I'll purchase any more 180gr SMK'ings.

On the other hand, my 168grn hornady AMAX & 168grn hornady BTHP was a whole different story. Looks like my rifle really likes 168grn AMAX at about 40.5 to 41grns of varget and groups were about .8 of an inch @ 100yards which was really close to my previous post / test last week. The 168grn hornady BTHP with 39grns of benchmark and BR2 primers was pushing the .6"moa groups. I'm really starting to wonder if BR-2 primers really do make that big of a difference. Not sure yet.

As for seating by ogive or just simple coal.... not sure yet. Too early to tell.

Enough talk, here are the pics:

The range @ 100yards:

168grn hornady bthp, 39grn benchmark, br2 primers (4shot group I was screwing around with scope windage)

168grn hornady amax, multiple varget loads, cci200 primers

not impressed with the 180grn SMK BTHP one bit. Really bad groups

 

[hlee]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

I see that you sorted the bullets by weight. Did you compare the length from base to Ogive? Or more importantly, from tip to ogive? The reason that I ask is that while you are determining your COAL based on the ogive measurement, your dies are seating the bullet from an index point much closer to the tip than the ogive. As a result, if there is a variance in bullet length, then this will show up in the final seating depths as a difference in your ogive OAL measurement. Or, did you seat and measure each cartridge independently?

At any rate you have inspired me to get a OAL gauge modified case for my LR-308. I was resigned to the presumption that a proper seating depth would be too long for a mag, but I should at least do the measurement...

 

[elfster1234]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

I did not measure each bullets ogvie before I seated them. The first bullet I seated I tried to figure out what would be my absolute max COAL that would fit in my PMAG and still function correctly, then I measured that round's ogive. I was shooting for around a .015 jump from my seated ogive measurement to touching my barrel's rifling lands. I was able to do this with the 180 SMK's. The 168 amax bullets on the other hand was around a .020 jump from seated ogive to touching my barrel's rifling lands. Once I figured out my set "seated ogive" measurement I reloaded about 5 rounds and they all had the same ogive measurement +/- .001 which was accetable to me. I ran all of my rounds and measured each round's ogive and they were all spot on +/- .001. This actually ended up saving me loads of time reloading as I didn't need a custom COAL seating depth on each round reloaded as I was doing before getting my ogive tool. Once my redding microm dial was set I left it alone and went to town reloading. COALS did differ on the rounds, but the ogive was spot on. The jury is still out on what I think of this method, but I think it will improve.

Yes, I sorted bullet by weight and only used bullets that were in a group of no more +/- .001 from each other. There was a HUGE weight difference in some of my bullet batches. As for example, my 180smk's ranged from 179.7 all the way up to 180.4 !!! The rounds I picked to reload was 180.2 and 180.1. Rest went back in the box for future reloading.

Only problem is,,, i think my barrel's harmonics didn't like the 180grn bullets for some reason... My LMT MWS really likes 175's and 168's for some reason. I think I've seen other people on this forum with the same results. Only reason why I picked up the box of 180grn as I figured it would be a nice test and the box was $5 dollars less than the other SMK's grain weights.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see that you sorted the bullets by weight. Did you compare the length from base to Ogive? Or more importantly, from tip to ogive? The reason that I ask is that while you are determining your COAL based on the ogive measurement, your dies are seating the bullet from an index point much closer to the tip than the ogive. As a result, if there is a variance in bullet length, then this will show up in the final seating depths as a difference in your ogive OAL measurement. Or, did you seat and measure each cartridge independently?

At any rate you have inspired me to get a OAL gauge modified case for my LR-308. I was resigned to the presumption that a proper seating depth would be too long for a mag, but I should at least do the measurement... </div></div>

 

[Shoottothrill]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

Great post and report. Good pics. I will keep checking in on your thread, curious what conclusion you come to.

 

[hlee]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

What is the twist on your barrel? A 1 in 12 will not stabilize the heavier bullets. Just a thought.

I haven't been sorting my bullets. Interesting that the ogive measurement was right on while the coal varied. I guess some seating dies make contact further down on the bullet than others. I shoot Barnes bullets (in my bolt guns) and they recommend a 0.05 jump to the lands. But, they are so long I'm not sure I can get that and reliable mag feeding. I guess I have some testing to do tomorrow.

It would be interesting to take the best load (based upon group size) and intentionally vary the bullet weight across the measured range to see how much a 0.4% variation matters. There may be a thread on this in a few weeks...

 

[Helmet]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the twist on your barrel? A 1 in 12 will not stabilize the heavier bullets. Just a thought.
</div></div>Longer bullets need more twist. SMKs are not very long.

 

[hlee]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

Heavier bullets also need more twist as they are traveling slower.

 

[DavidAR10]

Re: Reloading by OGIVE for LMT & SMK 180gr test W/pics

Mellow out for anything 600yds and under.
The micro-crap doesn't play in the game: meplat, bullet pointing yada yada...

1) You need a better scale, the RCBS doesn't count in precision.
Not even a Sartorius 123 is worth a da-da-damn.

A) At the minimum a GemPro 250
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-gempro-250.html

B) Not unworthy for 1000yds and beyond - Sartorius 503 FTW
http://balance.balances.com/scales/905/

Other than that da-da-damn RCBS contraption and under 600yds, be as Micro Maniacal as you want. You'll be on the right track.

Best to you.

Forgot to add: Get rid of the 180s. 175SMK, Whidden Bullet Pointing Die, and Redding Type S Match Die Set #36155 with 0.003" constriction.