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F&D Defense Participation in Elfsters Semi-Auto Shootout?

swamp2

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Feb 21, 2012
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Brian from F&D said he would shoot in the 5 round x 6 targets 100 yard shootout here: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...00yard-semi-auto-6group-30round-shootout.html . Corby said, more or less, that such tests do not indicate rifle potential. Corby has also stated he won't "overrule" Brian's statements and will let him speak fully on behalf of the company. I'm sure I am not the only one waiting for Brian's targets and results. As others mentioned (in that other thread...) a RANDOM PRODUCTION rifle should be selected for this. Which is of course what everybody else is using for their shooting and contest entries!

It's long overdue for the walk and not the talk here...

I really don't want to stir the pot here with this inquiry, I just want to see some promised results (promised long ago). I know it is probably asking too much, but I do hope to keep this thread on topic. If you want to see these results, please chime in. If F&D is refusing to participate, please also just let us know that.
 
Brian will do it on his own time, whenever he gets around to it.
Right now I have 3 people wanting to use both of those rifles for upcoming competitions and all will need the rifle for a couple weeks prior.
So you're just going to have to wait as long as it takes.

Regardless, Brian has already provided multi-group results 2 different times in hurried sessions, and JSF once.
You already know what those two rifle's potential are, both having provided decent 5-shot groups for non-handloads and handloads.

Also, I did not say that the shootout does not indicate *potential* of a rifle.
In regards to gas-guns:
*Potential*... that's exactly what it *may* do.
To a much greater degree, it will measure potential of the shooter.
 
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You spin me like a record, round round, like a record baby, round, round, round, round. :) :)
 
Brian will do it on his own time, whenever he gets around to it.
Right now I have 3 people wanting to use both of those rifles for upcoming competitions and all will need the rifle for a couple weeks prior.
So you're just going to have to wait as long as it takes.

Regardless, Brian has already provided multi-group results 2 different times in hurried sessions, and JSF once.
You already know what those two rifle's potential are, both having provided decent 5-shot groups for non-handloads and handloads.

Also, I did not say that the shootout does not indicate *potential* of a rifle.
In regards to gas-guns:
*Potential*... that's exactly what it *may* do.
To a much greater degree, it will measure potential of the shooter.

Thanks for the update. I know many are eager to see this test because they do believe it shows quite a bit about a rifle. If either you or Brian believe that he is not the person to best eliminate as much contribution to the test from the shooter, then it shouldn't be too difficult to find another shooter where your concerns will be almost, if not entirely, removed. Also, IIRC, there is no time limit on how long one wishes to spend shooting the 30 rounds. That should eliminate any shooter having errors from being rushed.

Again, trying hard not to beat the dead horse here, but the primary problem with prior posted results are that, as you know, they are not indicative of an accuracy break through that is in line with the overall claims about the innovations in your platform that can/will contribute to and provide improved accuracy. Specifically say improved accuracy over other rifles not having these same said breakthroughs/innovations.
 
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Again, trying hard not to beat the dead horse here, but the primary problem with prior posted results are that, as you know, they are not indicative of an accuracy break through that is in line with the overall claims about the innovations in your platform that can/will contribute to and provide improved accuracy. Specifically say improved accuracy over other rifles not having these same said breakthroughs/innovations.

Of course the posted results show that.
At one point, an off-the-shelf ammo was providing 2" groups.
After some adjustment it was tuned-in to less than 1" groups.
That in itself shows the capability of those features; go review the submitted groupings.
Moving forward, (and as it has been done plenty of times before) the operator will be able to find an ammo that groups close to 1" without adjustment, then move it down towards 1/2" with adjustment; and so-forth.

You cannot do this with other platforms except by changing recoil spring/buffer characteristics or by making handloads.
With the FD308, there is good-to-great accuracy potential with 147gr all the way up to 180gr; if you are willing to do the gas adjustments.
With the shorter 17"/18" barrel, this potential increases when adding a suppressor; which is what the original FD308 was specifically designed for.

With other rifles you are limited to a very narrow window of ability when it comes to getting the most out of what ammo you want to run.
If the ammo does not provide acceptable groups, then you move onto a different brand/load. With the FD308, you are less driven by that requirement because you have an alternative adjustment method.
Often this window becomes more narrow when adding a suppressor to a standard gas-gun. The opposite is true of the FD308.

The problem with simply handing a rifle like this off to someone who has no intention of performing the tuning, you cannot expect him to just sit down and get ideal groups, unless its by chance that the tuning is already proper for their body weight/posture, and ammo. With that said, the rifle was designed for technical shooters who demand adjustability under a wide variety of environmental conditions, wide variety of ammo usage, and variety or muzzle devices/suppressors.

As far as your usage of the term "breakthrough"; adjustability of the gas system is not a "breakthrough".
However, it is the first time an adjustable system has been used on a piston-op; which is where it happens to shine the most, due to its ability to influence "delay" issues associated with piston-ops.
Any "breakthrough" in accuracy would be attributed to the technical shooter (customer) who is able to patiently and successfully match up all the variables by using the adjustable system to their advantage.
We do it to a limited degree here at F&D, by proving the system works as its supposed to.
It's up to the end-user to take that to the next level if they are wanting competition-grade accuracy.

Now... in regards to a device that has not yet been introduced, I have full faith that it could be termed a "break-through", specifically in regards to piston platforms.
But since that feature is yet to be published, I will not go into further details at this time. For all pre-production customers, this feature will also be available for simple retrofit onto your existing rifles.
 
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