- Thread starter mescalito
- Start date
Smith Enterprises, Inc. Suing over a forum post.
The answer is: Yes, I have; and yes, I do. Litigation, and appellate litigation. Exclusively.
But this isn't what he is trying to make of it: A battle between he and I to see who is better, or who has more credentials, or diplomas, or friends. I am responding only to what he posted here and what is wrong about what he posted here. Those posts speak for themselves.
As does the fact that he chooses to engage in name calling, and violating the rules of the board, and yelling at me to shut the fuck up. Because I am quite sure that this is not the professional standard for attorney conduct, even in whichever jurisdiction(s) he is admitted to practice.
I claim no special status here based on credentials or experience. After all, its the Internet. But it appears that even on the Internet about eight percent of the professionals actually know what they are doing. The rest are just winging it.
Agreed.
The answer is: Yes, I have; and yes, I do. Litigation, and appellate litigation. Exclusively.
But this isn't what he is trying to make of it: A battle between he and I to see who is better, or who has more credentials, or diplomas, or friends. I am responding only to what he posted here and what is wrong about what he posted here. Those posts speak for themselves.
As does the fact that he chooses to engage in name calling, and violating the rules of the board, and yelling at me to shut the fuck up. Because I am quite sure that this is not the professional standard for attorney conduct, even in whichever jurisdiction(s) he is admitted to practice.
I claim no special status here based on credentials or experience. After all, its the Internet. But it appears that even on the Internet about eight percent of the professionals actually know what they are doing. The rest are just winging it.
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When is the defendant's response to the suit supposed to be filed? Is there a schedule of events to follow posted where we could find, or link to it?
Good answer and it appears you are both versed on matters legal.
No one with or without a law degree likes to get sniped at and sometimes printed words carry a different context.
We are all on the same side for the most part so hopefully cooler heads prevail moving forward.
I still think SEI is lower than whale dung.
(Not directed at you and a general statement)
I agree, and I admit that the printed medium is a poor way to engage in these types of discussions because the tone of the message does not get properly conveyed. That's probably what leads to so many misunderstanding and verbal arguments.
... Unless one gets called names and told to 'fuck off' using all caps, then the tone is pretty clear.
I make no apology for sniping, though. After all, this is a site dedicated to serious tactical marksmanship. And the ability to communicate accurately and with precision is a bona fide occupational qualification for attorneys. So it doesn't look good on the other guy when I can't recognize him as such.
Wow. Graham, in this thread -- as you do to others in other threads -- you've spent quite a few lines basically telling AMF he's a dumbarse and doesn't know what he's talking about. Now you're claiming he's a rules violator because he told you to shut the fuck up? Seriously? Only your mother or a lover should give you a pass because you picked on that guy in a passive-aggressive lawyerly style rather than head to head as he is attempting to deal with you. What are you going to do, ask Frank to delete his posts that hurt your feelings? If you need them, I can loan you a pair of big-boy pants.
Cartman, You are spot on. Its like they say, check yourself before checking others. The faults you sees in others are likely yours and yours alone.
Now back to the regularly scheduled programing, why this lawsuit (No I am not a lawyer - just a lowly vet) is crap.
Finally - on this day how about we each show a little restraint and mutual respect.
Now back to the regularly scheduled programing, why this lawsuit (No I am not a lawyer - just a lowly vet) is crap.
Finally - on this day how about we each show a little restraint and mutual respect.
Smith Enterprises, Inc. Suing over a forum post.
I never called him any name. I responded only to the information he posted. I pointed out where he was incorrect. I did it directly. I was neither passive nor aggressive. I have nothing to do with how he looks, except that I corrected his information. He's the one that had the aggressive reaction.
Please stop Trolling by taunting people about what they are going to do. Frank has nothing to do with this, except that he has banned you once already for this kind of stirring the pot and trying to cast people against each other.
You are trying to be a bully, and what is uniquely degrading about it is that you do it from the sidelines. Maybe first check your own pant size before projecting on others.
And I have never asked Frank to delete anything. Ever. Kindly stop spreading lies and rumors, it's not productive to the well being of this Site.
Cartman, you've got it backwards.
I never called him any name. I responded only to the information he posted. I pointed out where he was incorrect. I did it directly. I was neither passive nor aggressive. I have nothing to do with how he looks, except that I corrected his information. He's the one that had the aggressive reaction.
Please stop Trolling by taunting people about what they are going to do. Frank has nothing to do with this, except that he has banned you once already for this kind of stirring the pot and trying to cast people against each other.
You are trying to be a bully, and what is uniquely degrading about it is that you do it from the sidelines. Maybe first check your own pant size before projecting on others.
And I have never asked Frank to delete anything. Ever. Kindly stop spreading lies and rumors, it's not productive to the well being of this Site.
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AMF original post
I didn't really look at the complaint, but it's unlikely that the Arizona court has jurisdiction over Hammonds. He could have it removed to his state of residence unless he has some ties to Arizona.
Grahams Response
Wrong on all counts. Maybe you should look at the complaint.
Can anyone find an allegation that the plaintiff has suffered seventy-five thousand dollars in damages? < That's a hint.
AMF Reply
Graham - What am I wrong about? I'm not talking about diversity jurisdiction. I am speaking of personal jurisdiction. If you don't understand the difference, I am happy to explain it. "Intentionally placing defamatory information on the internet is not, by itself, sufficient to subject the author or the owner of the website to personal jurisdiction in the state where the defamed party resides." Perhaps you know something that the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals doesn't.
Grahams Response
OK, AMF, I'll play: Go ahead and explain personal jurisdiction to me, and I don't mean cut and paste from Wikipedia.
BTW, it's not a defamation suit. You are wrong about that as well.
Graham’s Response to a post from the original poster on the current thread
Not to mention the minimum amount of damages for a suit based on diversity in federal court.
OK, saw the complaint now. Even if it is a federal question there remain potentially fatal factual issues and jurisdictional issues... [Wait, did Graham post before reading the complaint? Isn’t that what he chastises others for doing?]
Grahams subsequent post.
You nailed it: Personal jurisdiction.
The defendant's only contact with Arizona, the venue state, appears to have been the purchase of a receiver from a third party. Hmmm......... [Wait a second? Isn’t that what AMF said originally?]
And it’s not just AMF. How does Graham speak to other posters?
Maybe consider reading the Thread before posting: That question has been answered.
Why do people insist on posting out of their backsides?!
That's not how the system works.
That's still not correct. In fact, all of it is incorrect.
Please, if you haven't a clue, kindly stop posting garbage.
You might want to reconsider giving that unpolished nugget of legal advice.
A teaching moment relevant to defamation claims: You can't first represent something as fact, then turn around and claim that it was only opinion because you chose to retroactively label it as such.
This is why it pays not to be lazy and to read the Thread: It's a Lanham Act claim.
You might want to read the very first post on this Thread.
Please think about what you posted, maybe for just a few seconds:
In the end the question is how can you demand civility when you treat others with nothing but disrespect, contempt and disdain?
My response is in red.
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I would think a company that clearly didn't meet a deadline would post a public apology over canceling orders as to maintain customer loyalty, but then again i'm not the guy making the decision and dealing with 300 potentially pissed consumers.
Smith Enterprises, Inc. Suing over a forum post.
When I entered the professions, only then did I realize how many of the coddled kids in them were made of porcelain. I am still not very good at patting heads and rubbing tummies, but I admit that I probably could have sugar coated almost everything I have ever said on this Site.
Civility is always a good argument. It also happens to be the same one I have been making. But, as you know, the key to making a good argument is to make it timely. In this case, that ship sailed before your argument was made.
And Cartman, sorry, I didn't read what you wrote and I don't intend to. If you insist on getting yourself banned again, and you really dislike yourself that much, then you're on your own. That way when it happens you won't be able to claim that I helped cause it.
I admit to being very direct, which may sound harsh to people times, especially on the Internet. I take responsibility for that. Know that it's probably a product of my background.
When I entered the professions, only then did I realize how many of the coddled kids in them were made of porcelain. I am still not very good at patting heads and rubbing tummies, but I admit that I probably could have sugar coated almost everything I have ever said on this Site.
Civility is always a good argument. It also happens to be the same one I have been making. But, as you know, the key to making a good argument is to make it timely. In this case, that ship sailed before your argument was made.
And Cartman, sorry, I didn't read what you wrote and I don't intend to. If you insist on getting yourself banned again, and you really dislike yourself that much, then you're on your own. That way when it happens you won't be able to claim that I helped cause it.
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You know, worse than anything else SEI did, they are responsible for starting an argument about The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the Lanham Act on snipershide.com
That's just not right.
That's just not right.
I will assume you are asking about a hypothetical situation, as opposed to some actual case. If so, my answer is that you are correct that the Defendant would likely file a motion to dismiss. The court would look to Arizona’s long arm statutes to determine whether to exercise personal jurisdiction over the defendant. I believe the Plaintiff would fight the motion to dismiss, or in the alternative, seek to have the case transferred to the proper venue under the applicable statute. Seeking to transfer to the proper venue is really more important for the plaintiff if the applicable statute of limitations has run since the filing of the lawsuit.
Like watching Sons of Guns or a trainwreck or something. So much drama, really annoying,yet I keep checking updates. Hope they get the trial or whatever underway quick so we can get some official answers from actual verified lawyers and judges actually employed on this case.
Kind of like looking at the Smith Facebook page as people post how jacked up Smith is for suing, the subsequent fan boi's who jump in to defend Smith and then seeing how long it stays up before Smith deletes and bans people. Trainwreck indeed.
I think that falls under discovery, of some sort.....
So far it is. Hopefully it doesn't continue on for several seasons with people all wanting to see the drama.
Hopefully it ends soon, with common sense prevailing.
Shoot - if I did that, I would never get back to my prior post count :-(
Ok, this is making my head hurt - I am going to look at boobies in the motivational pic thread !
Ok, this is making my head hurt - I am going to look at boobies in the motivational pic thread !
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Kind of like Facebook in general.
Latest update-defendant is retaining counsel in the Phoenix area based upon legal advise he has received.
M14 Forum
Page 69, post 1029.
Excerpt:
"Thanks again to all of you. I've been bolstered and amazed by your reaction. I was afraid I might be alone in this. Well that feeling lasted about 5 minutes. I under-estimated our bonds of friendship, shared experience, general outlook, and interests."
M14 Forum
Page 69, post 1029.
Excerpt:
"Thanks again to all of you. I've been bolstered and amazed by your reaction. I was afraid I might be alone in this. Well that feeling lasted about 5 minutes. I under-estimated our bonds of friendship, shared experience, general outlook, and interests."
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This lawsuit is a frivolous as they come.
You couldn't be more wrong. Control of, and participation on, this forum is very private. The fact that it can be seen by the public doesn't make it such.
Just sayin'...
If Ron believes that he is a fool and deserves to suffer the consequences that he is making for himself and his company. We have a manufacturer local to us that machines his lowers from a billet block. Start to finish he does them 4 at a time.
Its not rocket science once you have the damn program wrote, push go and stand back. These clowns that act like machine work is black magic are just setting people up to take their money and make them feel better about their 28 months wait times.
Smith Enterprises, Inc. Suing over a forum post.
Because if private ownership was the standard the only public forums would be government owned.
And your participation on this forum is not 'very private'.
It's an Internet forum. It is accessible to the public. People can post on it. I didn't capitalize the 'P' in 'public', so it might pay to check the definition of a public internet forum. Just sayin'...
Because if private ownership was the standard the only public forums would be government owned.
And your participation on this forum is not 'very private'.
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They would file a motion to dismiss (Rule 12) or tranfer venue (28 USC 1406). We don't have to speculate as to what will happen in the SEI matter. It appears from some of the other posts that the Defendant has retained counsel in Arizona. The counsel for the parties will need to meet and confer before filing any motions to dismiss. Whether the parties stipulate to dismiss the action or motions are filed, I am certain that we will all hear about it in the near future.
I think the lawsuit is a waste of time, obviously SEI does not agree.
Machining metal objects like an m14 receiver are a lot harder to do than write a program and push cycle start, not to mention the business aspects, which we are seeing can be difficult to get right..
Is the local machine shop you mention making m14 receivers?
Latest update:
"Gentlemen I have retained counsel and will not be posting on this site except perhaps an occasional update. I will reach out as appropriate. To all my brothers that stepped up to help I will be forever in your debt.
I want to express my gratitude to all those taking the time to post your remarks. To all those donating to my Defense Fund.....thank you. I will pay it forward. I intend to learn from these events. I was naive in that I hadn't experienced spite in this fashion. If I had issue with another man we talked it out between us and moved on, usually bringing us closer rather than farther apart.
Thanks for everything gentlemen. I will very much miss talking with you here on a daily basis. You are in stark contrast to my usual circle and I prefer your company. You guys are as reliable and intelligent as any folks I have ever come across in my life. What I will miss the most is the free exchange of ideas and your sense of humor. A huge loss for me. Money will be lost, but your loss will be greater felt.
I will miss you all very much indeed, even TB
Take care and I'll see you guys on the other side of this. God bless you brothers."
"Gentlemen I have retained counsel and will not be posting on this site except perhaps an occasional update. I will reach out as appropriate. To all my brothers that stepped up to help I will be forever in your debt.
I want to express my gratitude to all those taking the time to post your remarks. To all those donating to my Defense Fund.....thank you. I will pay it forward. I intend to learn from these events. I was naive in that I hadn't experienced spite in this fashion. If I had issue with another man we talked it out between us and moved on, usually bringing us closer rather than farther apart.
Thanks for everything gentlemen. I will very much miss talking with you here on a daily basis. You are in stark contrast to my usual circle and I prefer your company. You guys are as reliable and intelligent as any folks I have ever come across in my life. What I will miss the most is the free exchange of ideas and your sense of humor. A huge loss for me. Money will be lost, but your loss will be greater felt.
I will miss you all very much indeed, even TB
Take care and I'll see you guys on the other side of this. God bless you brothers."
No he does not do M14 receivers. The market is AR heavy, that's what he focuses on.
He also does custom 1911's
Some bolt gun work.
Funny video. I can't post though.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IdpzWfqvuds&desktop_uri=/watch?v=IdpzWfqvuds
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IdpzWfqvuds&desktop_uri=/watch?v=IdpzWfqvuds
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This is one of those times where Smith Enterprises, even if they do win (which they won't), they still lose.
Video is brilliant - hit my funny bone
I really laughed out loud - haven't done that in a long time
I really laughed out loud - haven't done that in a long time
Great Video - I wonder if SEI still has government contracts to delivery rifles or rifle parts?
When it came to 50 seconds in I almost expected him to start talking about Dillo Dust, but the caption was still funny.
But the comments in the video about H20 Man at 2:35 ...WOW
- Those of us at Fulton Armory would like to thank Ron Smith and Smith Enterpises for being snide, condesending assholes. They have helped our business revenue grow 250% in the last week. Please continue to destroy your reputation due to sheer stupidity, the rest of the firearms industry is happy to take that market share of your hands.*
*obviously a joke.
*obviously a joke.
You're about to hear from his attorney...
Guys, Seriously..........Let the lawyers fight.
It's like factions in Africa or the Middle East fighting and killing each other off. It makes the world a better place , the less there are to populate it with. (And its fun as shit to watch)
It's like factions in Africa or the Middle East fighting and killing each other off. It makes the world a better place , the less there are to populate it with. (And its fun as shit to watch)
Great question! I did a one second google search and found this (from 4 day ago):
-Tuesday, September 10, 2013
Smith Enterprise Awarded Contract for 400 Vortexes for the Navy Seals
Tempe, AZ
Smith Enterprise received a purchase order from the Navy Seals for 400 each of their premium Vortex Flash Hiders for the MK48 Machine Gun. The MK48 Vortex is Sound Suppressor capable and blocks over 95% of the flash. The version of the Vortex purchased by the Navy Seals is the G6A3 flash hider that includes the new external ten-pitch radial bottom helical grooves, which aid in the easy removal of the Wind Talker Sound Suppressor.
The contract (H92240-13-P-0250) awarded was the first contract award after many years of rigorous testing of the MK48 Vortex Flash Hider by Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center. Crane was so impressed with the MK48, it awarded Smith Enterprise a National Stock Number (1005-01-600-8577) and also safety certified the device. Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center is the contracting division for the Navy Seals.
Crane’s original intent was to approve the best flash hider that will later be used as a mounting platform for Smith Enterprise MK48 Wind Talker Sound Suppressor. Smith Enterprise previously bid on a Sound Suppressor solicitation for the MK48 in 2010 and was beat by FN, who has no Sound Suppressor experience. FN has yet to produce its first Sound Suppressor for the Navy and is still attempting to make an integral barrel Sound Suppressor – something that the military has tried to make for decades without success. Smith Enterprise is hopeful that the Navy Seals see the value in Smith’s products and will follow up with a Sound Suppressor purchase order. The Smith Enterprise Sound Suppressor for the MK48 is complete with testing and is ready for delivery.
Smith Enterprise also makes a Blank Firing Adapter for the MK48 Machine Gun, which is a unique advantage for the Navy Seals should they want to train with blanks.
The Flash Hiders, Sound Suppressors, and BFAs can all be purchased on GSA Schedule GS-07F-0144X.
I guess the answer is yes, they still have and are winning government contracts. Hope this helps.
WOW I'm amazed
Graham raises an excellent point - the company in this matter is just begging someone to go to court and show a pattern of poor customer service, abusive language, etc., and in essence prove that the statements are true rather than libelous. If you're an asshat, and I can prove it, I can call you an asshat.
Also, there's a big difference between writing "these guys did this" and "I heard from a guy at a gun show that...". In the first case, they might easily prove that they didn't really do it and at least make your life difficult. In the second case, they'd be nuts to even consider taking legal action.
Some guys are just bullies, and poor businessmen. Makes life interesting, though.
FINALLY!! Somebody gets it!!!!
You sir are 100% correct, I stand corrected, I should have said, "still being awarded" govt contracts. Regarding your observation that," Uncle Sam has funds already allocated for contracts to businesses like that", I'm sorry to hear Navy Crane and the SEALs are buying what must be a sub quality product, or certainly not a "superior product", because of the ownerships, etc. This would be a good place to discuss the other offerings made to Crane, who made them, and why they weren't Awarded the contract. If you could post some photos and test results of the other businesses that mfg. a superior flash hider (one that met the Crane's stated requirement), I'll be among the first to call my Congressman!! I apologize for being naïve on the subject, but with your help, I'll be able to have some hard facts-as in what else has been tested, who mfg'd the other products etc.. Thanks in advance.
They took into consideration all of the elements of the competition, not just producing a superior product, and yes"WON" the bid. It is naive to think producing a superior product is the only factor in determining who wins the competition to get a gov't contract.
I agree with what you have stated, I was interested in0812guns inside knowledge regarding the other products that were submitted, how the tests were conducted, and how Crane and the SEAL's actually chose this "less than superior" product. I know 0812guns didn't just pull that out of his "hat", I was hoping he could share his inside knowledge regarding the other offerings, which were actually superior, as we the Tax Payers have a legitimate complaint, if Crane is buying sub quality goods! The way I understand 0812guns, is that there were other- superior products- tested, but because of the ownership etc. of SEI, they were not awarded the contract. I hate to think of our SEALs are being issued such crappy equipment-due to politics. If 0812guns would share some of this "inside info", maybe we can pressure our congressmen to right this wrong, and buy the superior product-American made of course. Who made the other offerings, how much better were they in testing etc. I can't imagine writing my congressman a saying, " some guy says...." without any real facts, that of course would idiotic, and naïve!
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Try Fedbizops.gov, and find the original solicitation. If it was put out for bid there will be a list of mfgrs who answered the solicitation and depending on how it was posted, it could have been a sole source, in which case, no others were able to bid on it due to the end user's stated requirements and there being no other vendor that can meet the end users requirement(this type of solicitation has to pass several stringent requirements and doesn't happen all that often).
If other mfgrs didn't answer the solicitation by the close date, too bad, so sad for them.They could make the best widget in the world but if they don't answer the solicitation, they are not considered. If others did answer the solicitation they will be listed. The contracting officer reviews the submission information from each mfgr. looking to see if they meet the requirements and looking for the best value to the Govt. Depending on how the solicitiation was listed, and by Law, a certain number of contracts set aside for small bussinesses have to be awarded. If 3 mfgrs submitted and all meet the listed requirements and one is a small bussiness, even if their price is more than the other 2, that may be the edge that allows themt to win the contract.
What you are getting fired up over is not going to get a congressmans attention as it is how bussiness is done by law everyday. Now if you can prove some malfeasance in some way the the contract was awarded you have grounds to get fired up. Which I don't think is the case here. I've left a lot out of what goes into this process as it is quiet convoluted to explain and grasp over the internet.
As an aside, if other manufacturers solicited the contract and weren't awarded it and felt there was an issue they have the right to contest the contract being awarded at which point the contract is suspended until the contestested issue is proved/disproved /resolved.
If Crane had an issue with the product they can also address it with the mfgrs legally until it is resolved or so that if and when a solicitation goes out in the future, that the requirments are written in such a way as to be beyond what the offending mfgr can meet, thus removing them from consideration in the solicitation process.
Again, this is a very very rudimentary explanation of a complex system.
