• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Rifle Scopes Has Premier Reticles fixed their Parallax binding issue?

N

Notso

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 28, 2010
448
14
54
Sin City
I saw this quote by Lowlight in the BEAST thread and wondered what the latest on Premier was, but didn't want to derail the thread. LL said:

Lowlight said:
phillip61

I have also gone down the line with dozens of people using the Premier's where the rings have bound the parallax adjustment (A known issue) and found more than half of the owners didn't realize their parallax was bound... all of them were happy too... until you show them the parallax is actually not working. Generally you can find that happy owner with the scope for sale shortly after.
Click to expand...

That pretty much confirms what a buddy of mine experienced with two of his Premier 5-25x. They were beautiful scopes but he sent both back to get replaced and finally sold the 3rd. That turned me off to ever considering a PR scope. However, ILya's great article on high end rifle scopes really highlighted the Premier as one of the best all around. So I wondered if the company solved that known issue and was not having any problems now. Anyone know the skinny on them?
 
You sure don't hear much about it these days so it seems like it's a non-issue. I have one of the first 3-15's made and I have not had any problems. And if you do Paul will take care of you.
 
they never addressed it, the answer is to only use Badger Rings @ 15 inch pounds and not much else. Most people with the problem barely acknowledge it, but it is still there, I still find it and point it out, to which point most owners have a dazed look on their face.

It's a well known issue that was never resolved at the production level only individually... and just because a company has "great customer service" doesn't mean you should need to use it for a well known problem. Saying don't sweat it, they'll take care of you is ridiculous and Ilya's article never addressed using it, only "looking through it" which is a big disservice to people.

My understanding is, when they finally re-introduce the line from Canada it will be updated to fix a lot of the old Virginia issues that were left in place.

If you use your scope like a tactical scope and put rings on a bit tighter than Premier recommends, you'll have the issue. It just depends where your rings fall and who's they are. The earliest 3-15x had the biggest problem, we returned 4 of them. So trying to justify the cause by pointing to a clearly flawed product is comical.
 
I have only used Badger Max 50 rings and Spuhr mounts on my Premiers (Ive owned aprox 8 ) Ive never experienced any problems at all with them
Might be the wider ring and or mount displacing pressure on the tube
 
The parallax adjustment turns but nothing happens, most of the time people don't realize it is not working because the parallax knob actually spins... however it is not adjusting a thing.

It's real, it happens to almost all of them... they only tested the scope with Badger rings at 15 inch pounds, not a single other brand were looked at, and that was directly from Premier when I confronted them on the issue.
 
Lowlight-

Is there a way to test for this?

My parallax knobs adjusts the sight picture in and out nicely as I look thru the scope, suggesting that the parallax adjustment is in fact occurring, but is there some other test to do?

thanks
 
I have leupold rings on mine at 15in-lb with no issue. What is the actual mechanism of the problem, binding? It seems like to compress a tube and affect internal function the tube is either reallllly thin or the tolerances are very tight inside. Ot people and wayyy overtightening their rings.
 
Not trying to argue, just curious. As an engineer I start to go through all the things that could cause an issue like this based on how scopes function. You either have to find a solution to the problem or a way to mitigate the effects. Is there a need to tighten the rings more than 15in-lb? Apologies if it came off wrong.
 
Not all rings are spec'd to 15 inch pounds, and generally speaking I do, 18 to 21 depending on the type.

But again if it works for you, go for it... 15 sounds perfect for every situation, drive on and enjoy. Besides with great customer service there is never a need to worry.
 
I've had 7+ various Premier reticle scopes and have noticed this problem with at least 50%!!

I thought to my self must have really thin main tube!! If you put 1 inch lb too much on the front ring parallax function will bind.
One of my 3-15x50 Hunters with the 30mm tube is almost unmountable
 
Kruger21 said:
I've had 7+ various Premier reticle scopes and have noticed this problem with at least 50%!!

I thought to my self must have really thin main tube!! If you put 1 inch lb too much on the front ring parallax function will bind.
One of my 3-15x50 Hunters with the 30mm tube is almost unmountable
Click to expand...

How did you tell it was binding? Just unable to focus the scope? Did the parallax knob still turn?

Just wondering because i have a Hunter sitting here waiting to go onto a rifle, i was just going to use some Talley LW's.
 
I always thought the one I had didn't work! I bet it dosent. Where are they doing their service work and will they fix it?
 
Well most of the binding problems happened before I knew to be careful with ring torque!! I just went to the ring manufactures recommended torque specs ie 20in lb plus depending on rings.

On the 3-15 Hunter model I could tell the parallax knob would stiffen and bind while turning, while looking through the scope it would focus normally from 400 meters to 800 but not to say infinity. and same on the lower end fine from 50-100 then not so much after.

I loosened off the front ring and parallax function returned to normal :/ Little bit of Google Fu and find this is a reported issue too late for that scope
I've had this same problem years ago when i foolishly tried IOR scopes among more serious issues with them. but thats another story all together, Live and learn they say!!

Since learning about his issue I haven't had a problem with my other Premiers I was just careful not to over tighten the rings they aren't Nightforce tough.

What reticle did you go? What rifle and application you plan on using it for?
 
I've got 5; four 5-25s and one 3-15. My shooting partner has a 5-25.

3 are mounted in Seekins @ 20in-lb

2 are mounted in badger @ 20in-lb

1 is mounted in Farrell @ ?? (Probably too many in-lb)

None bind.
 
Don't believe it ... ^^^^^

They Don't bind or You don't know what you are looking at... it can go either way couldn't it now.

A Lot of people out there walking around oblivious to it, ask all of the people I have pointed it out too, none of them had a problem until they did.
 
It could depend too on how they were torqued. The scope tube will see less stress when the rings are torqued in 5 in-lbf increments than torqued at 20 in-lbf immediately.

I agree that this should not be an issue with a scope of this level.
 
Kruger21 said:
What reticle did you go? What rifle and application you plan on using it for?
Click to expand...

I picked it up 2nd hand. It's a Gen2 XR illuminated. It's going on a Win M70, soon to be 6.5 saum. It's a 7wsm atm. Hunting rifle. I might try play with it today to see if it's been damaged in any way, might be tough not being mounted though to tell. Fingers crossed.

Did the parallax knob get tight at all or just wouldn't focus? The knob seems to move nice and smooth now on mine. You on AHN?
 
Trespasser said:
It could depend too on how they were torqued. The scope tube will see less stress when the rings are torqued in 5 in-lbf increments than torqued at 20 in-lbf immediately.

I agree that this should not be an issue with a scope of this level.
Click to expand...

But it could be an issue due to a warped rail, a mismatch between scope tube and rings, poor receiver geometry, etc. I doubt anyone who has one of these on a flat top AR has any problems.
 
The_FNG said:
I picked it up 2nd hand. It's a Gen2 XR illuminated. It's going on a Win M70, soon to be 6.5 saum. It's a 7wsm atm. Hunting rifle. I might try play with it today to see if it's been damaged in any way, might be tough not being mounted though to tell. Fingers crossed.

Did the parallax knob get tight at all or just wouldn't focus? The knob seems to move nice and smooth now on mine. You on AHN?
Click to expand...

No I'm not on AHN!!

On my Hunter I only noticed it because of the knob tightening in places, I was practicing with steel plates set up from 300 to 700

When i tried to focus @ 200-400 i could tell it didn't work properly, I didn't notice when i zeroed at 100 !!!

I undid the front ring parallax worked fine, smooth and focused at all ranges

On my 5-25 I couldn't tell with the feel of the parallax knob, just that i was always messing with the parallax it sort of had a sweet spot where it worked in a certain range and i was looking for the issue too.

I'm sure your scope will be fine especially that your aware not to over tighten rings!! I think Talley rings are pretty hard on scope tubes the ones that clamp vertically i prefer Seekins rings

Sounds like you'll have a great set up anyway! I'm a Big fan of the GenII XR reticle I'm lucky to have one in my PMII 5-25

It's just a massive hassle when scopes shit them selves for us!!! Being on the other side of the world, means Rifle is out of action many months not weeks and added expense.... good thing it teaches you patience :)
 
Kruger21 said:
No I'm not on AHN!!

On my Hunter I only noticed it because of the knob tightening in places, I was practicing with steel plates set up from 300 to 700

When i tried to focus @ 200-400 i could tell it didn't work properly, I didn't notice when i zeroed at 100 !!!

I undid the front ring parallax worked fine, smooth and focused at all ranges

On my 5-25 I couldn't tell with the feel of the parallax knob, just that i was always messing with the parallax it sort of had a sweet spot where it worked in a certain range and i was looking for the issue too.

I'm sure your scope will be fine especially that your aware not to over tighten rings!! I think Talley rings are pretty hard on scope tubes the ones that clamp vertically i prefer Seekins rings

Sounds like you'll have a great set up anyway! I'm a Big fan of the GenII XR reticle I'm lucky to have one in my PMII 5-25

It's just a massive hassle when scopes shit them selves for us!!! Being on the other side of the world, means Rifle is out of action many months not weeks and added expense.... good thing it teaches you patience :)
Click to expand...

I didn't want to put a rail on it, i find they get in the way when top loading, otherwise i'd probably go for some Seekins. You don't see the hunters for sale very often so i jumped at it, not a fan of mile high turrets on a hunting rifle either. If i ever do a more heavy style rifle, i'll try find a Prem for sure.
 
Every single round top rifle I have ever owned was a mismatch with the scope bases/rail. Either the receiver tops were off or the screw holes or both.
 
The_FNG said:
I didn't want to put a rail on it, i find they get in the way when top loading, otherwise i'd probably go for some Seekins. You don't see the hunters for sale very often so i jumped at it, not a fan of mile high turrets on a hunting rifle either. If i ever do a more heavy style rifle, i'll try find a Prem for sure.
Click to expand...

Well the Hunter is no more not being picked up once production starts again or so i've heard

I'm not sure if you can get a rail for the Winchester like the Badger #306-07 M24.

I'm Getting the new Bushy 3-12x44 LRHS for my FN A1 spr, seems a well thought out optic solely designed for LRH :)

Then I'll grab a Beast and pull up stumps for a while it think....... Well then i'll see something new at Shot !! And the cycle begins again:(
 
918v said:
Every single round top rifle I have ever owned was a mismatch with the scope bases/rail. Either the receiver tops were off or the screw holes or both.
Click to expand...

Really!!

Do you mean the Picatinny rail holes didn't line up with the factory receiver holes? I've heard of this but never had one, every Badger, Seeking, Nightfore, Near mfg rail SA/LA etc has always gone on perfect, never had one off centre either. Unlucky for you or lucky for me I guess
 
Lowlight said:
It just depends where your rings fall.
Click to expand...

I think this is why some people are having the problem and some aren't. I have had issues with my Premier, but not parallax binding and I have used Seekins as well as Leupold rings both torqued to 20 pounds. And yes, I know how to adjust parallax.
 
Kruger21 said:
Well the Hunter is no more not being picked up once production starts again or so i've heard

I'm not sure if you can get a rail for the Winchester like the Badger #306-07 M24.

I'm Getting the new Bushy 3-12x44 LRHS for my FN A1 spr, seems a well thought out optic solely designed for LRH :)

Then I'll grab a Beast and pull up stumps for a while it think....... Well then i'll see something new at Shot !! And the cycle begins again:(
Click to expand...

Hmmm...FN A1 SPR ey....Does the user name Ackley Improved ring a bell? :p

I'm pretty tempted by the Bushy too...maybe we can split the postage ;)
 
Last edited:
No kidding. So Premiers are pieces of shit...but you won't know it when you use them? I'm happy with mine so far, nothing seems to be binding at all but mine is in a dreaded LaRue mount (gasp) at 20lb.
 
Truth hurts...

Especially when you're paying a premium only to find you're being handed something with a known issue.

Willingly paying top dollar on the better than 50/50 chance you'll have an issue = unwise

especially when you consider the competition.
 
Eh, maybe i'll buy a Kahles for my heavy rifle then. Or wait and see if the new PH has thicker tube.
 
Lowlight said:
Truth hurts...

Especially when you're paying a premium only to find you're being handed something with a known issue.

Willingly paying top dollar on the better than 50/50 chance you'll have an issue = unwise

especially when you consider the competition.
Click to expand...


Yes, and the truth is that everything fails eventually. But the PH parallax assembly tolerance problem is a known problem that is only serviced when the problem is exhibited, not all scopes have the problem. IMO if a particular product suits your operational needs how the company supports the product is extremely important. For example there are plenty of USO scopes that arrive new out of the box with issues and it can take time for USO to get all the bugs out of a scope and these are not new product designs. I live in SoCal and have been to the USO plant and have seen how this loop can work, nice enough people though. S&B makes great scopes but historically the service times have been longer and even S&B does not get every service right every time.

My own experience with Premiere was that I bought a PH 5-25 and it worked well for several months. I know it worked because I shoot from 100 to 1,000+ yards and it is very easy to see when the parallax is adjusted correctly for range. I used Seekins and Mark4 rings on Seekins, Mark4 and Badger one-piece bases carefully torqued to spec (using a torque driver that is recertified by an A2LA lab every 24 months) on a couple R700s. Then one day while removing the paint from the nose of a steel pig at 600yards I fired a round and the image got all blurry. I found I could refocus using the parallax knob but with each round the image would go all fuzzy again. This did not make me very happy. Later that day I called it in, explaining the problem and was given an RMA. I overnighted the scope and got a call back two days later with a tracking number and a detailed description of the problem found which was an inner sleeve was too tight causing some sort of guide pin to fail. Door to door the repair cost me $75 in shipping and 5 days without the scope. The parts were replaced with newer spec. components and a few thousand rounds later it operates like new if a little worse for cosmetic wear. Once repaired the PH 5-25 has continued to operate perfectly. The Premiere service in my one experience was outstanding and mine is not an usual story when Premiere scopes are serviced.

I shoot this particular PH 5-25 on a 5R/AICS and my shooting partner shoots an S&B 5-25 on a TacOps X Ray-51 so we have both spent a some time behind these rigs. I prefer the controls of the PH-5-25 over the S&B 5-25 and my shooting buddy prefers the S&B and we both agree that optically the glass is a wash. Of course the 5R is not as consistent as the TacOps X Ray-51 but the TacOps Delta-51 I have been waiting for will be here soon so and I will definitely be buying another Premiere Heritage Scope to mount on the Delta. Saving my pennies...
 
Blah, blah, blah, mis-direct, don't look here, look at USO. Keep spinning it.

Blah, Blah, Blah, "historically S&B" blah, blah, guess what there is a US service center now, so your historical example is another stab at bullshit to deny the fact... Most report S&B returns the scopes in 5 days now, not 5 years ago.

Trust me, I confronted PR about this back in the day, they were well aware of it, admitted to oversight in testing, prior to production. ( lots of things were rushed, they needed the money). Hopefully Canada will address this, as it's my understanding "much" is supposed to change and get done right. I hear the toggles are going away too cause they a problem.

Though it did make me laugh, "liking the controls of the Premier over the S&B" how does that work ? As if the parallax is somewhere else on the scope. As if more words filling the paragraphs some how makes the bullshit seem tasty, easier to digest.
 
Anyone else care to share their differing (and therefore incorrect) experience or opinion?

Go get 'em, Sparky!

This is amusing!
 
Actually it proves exactly what I am saying... Try reading, anytime you want to show up with your scopes I'll be happy to point it out.

Are you denying Premier had financial issues ? Which lead to them rushing the products to market .... Had they tested it, it would have been apparent, but money was more important and they figured 90% wouldn't notice because they didn't know what they were looking at or they would barely use it anyway.

There is a reason it's no longer here, this is part of it. Heck I remember when a whole run of the NorCal scopes had to be fixed. Lol.

I had 4 Premiers, no longer .... And clearly I can use anything I want.
 
Are these issues with all of the PH scopes? Lots of posts about the 5-25 but is the LT 3-15 having the same parallax problems?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Hmmm. I'm quite familiar with parallax and would never tolerate a scope that wouldn't let me mount it correctly. About a dozen guys running premier's in our group and all scopes are working correctly mounted up to 25in/lbs in badger, seekins, dta, spuhr, and other mounts. A few of us had problems with early scopes (pre-2009'ish) but those were fixed and have not had an issue since. None of the scopes purchased after 2010 or so have had an issue either.

I might be able to squeeze one hard enough to cause it to stop working, but I see no need for more than 25in/lbs on anything.

Though it's all a moot point, because the new scopes from Tangent Theta are going to take center stage in the optics world in about two weeks.
 
I would never, while in the same breath admitting to problems, and still you went back for more.

at this point do we need to discuss the curve in the reticle travel at the top end ?

Don't forget to look for that little gem, as you max the elevation the reticle drifts.

No, I hope Canada sorts it out and releases a home run. But still... Historically, one must question.

Now head out this weekend and double check, cause you never know.
 
Well, i hope someone just straight up asks them if they've fixed the parallax problem at SHOT.
 
The Optronika guys probably did, unlike the sheep here, I actually have the balls to stand in front of these guys and call them on it.

Ask Ilya, he was standing there when I confronted them last time and they all agreed I was right.

My understanding is Canada was addressing all of this... And possibly more.
 
Lowlight said:
I hear the toggles are going away too cause they a problem.
Click to expand...

The toggles were a great idea in theory. In practice, I have to zero, then wind the turret and shoot again to confirm that the toggle was locked down correctly, because it is not a lot of the time. If you spin the toggle too much, it won't lock all the way down. If you spin the toggle not enough, it won't hold. Maybe it's user error, but this user doesn't like it much.

I am not going to bother to sell mine for something else. Once I sent it back the first time, it did whatever I asked. I really didn't like being out a scope for a couple of weeks and out $75.

If I were buying for the first time, I would skip it. At the time I bought, it was significantly cheaper than S&B, but they have increased prices, enforced MAP strictly, and for the money there is better out there in today's market.

And the other critical point is that they had something flawed out there and went with it. It didn't bother me when mine broke because shit happens. But knowing they put a product out there with issues... that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I hope Tangent Theta gets it right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Itsadryheat
Lowlight said:
Blah, blah, blah, mis-direct, don't look here, look at USO. Keep spinning it.

Blah, Blah, Blah, "historically S&B" blah, blah, guess what there is a US service center now, so your historical example is another stab at bullshit to deny the fact... Most report S&B returns the scopes in 5 days now, not 5 years ago.

Trust me, I confronted PR about this back in the day, they were well aware of it, admitted to oversight in testing, prior to production. ( lots of things were rushed, they needed the money). Hopefully Canada will address this, as it's my understanding "much" is supposed to change and get done right. I hear the toggles are going away too cause they a problem.

Though it did make me laugh, "liking the controls of the Premier over the S&B" how does that work ? As if the parallax is somewhere else on the scope. As if more words filling the paragraphs some how makes the bullshit seem tasty, easier to digest.
Click to expand...


Another typically glib answer with little depth making it even easier to swallow than my bullshit. Why bother to answer if my post is so, as you say, blah blah blah?
 
turbo54 said:
Anyone else care to share their differing (and therefore incorrect) experience or opinion?

Go get 'em, Sparky!

This is amusing!
Click to expand...


My head hurts already, doesn't yours? The amusement is why I keep reading.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Glassaholic
Rifle Scopes Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56 Review and comparison with NF ATACR 4-16x42, S&B US 3-20x50 and March 4.5-28x52
Replies
115
Views
6K
TheBigCountry
TheBigCountry
K
Rifle Scopes Slide locking adjustment knobs
Replies
0
Views
128
Keokuk
K
Glassaholic
Rifle Scopes Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 vs March 3-24x52 vs Schmidt 3-27x56 - battle of midrange magnification juggernauts
Replies
32
Views
5K
Glassaholic
Glassaholic
Milirad
Rifle Scopes Burris Eliminator 6 Accuracy Range Test Review
Replies
5
Views
223
Milirad
Milirad
Glassaholic
Rifle Scopes March FFP 1.5-15x42 MPVO Review and Comparison (w/ Nightforce and Athlon)
Replies
220
Views
15K
steve123
S
Top Bottom
Back