Rifle Scopes Has Premier Reticles fixed their Parallax binding issue?

[orkan]

I would never, while in the same breath admitting to problems, and still you went back for more.

If I like a product, and it fails... I'll let the manufacturer fix it for free... you bet. Then when I don't have another problem with that product, after using it for a few thousand rounds... I'll buy more. You bet. I certainly won't condemn any company that is pushing the leading edge of innovation for stumbling out of the gate. It's very clear to me that the Premier's sent out after 2011'ish, function quite well. Granted I only have a sample size of 13-15 or so scopes... but it's still worth merit.

As for the reticle moving off axis at the top end, we had 1 of the early scopes with this issue. We have not seen it with any of them in the last couple years. Granted we only shoot 338's out around 1700-1800yds... so there's still some elevation left. (which is nice) For what it's worth, I've seen the same thing from USO, S&B, and Nightforce/etc. Come to think of it, thus far I haven't seen a single optic manufacturer who's made a product that hasn't failed amongst our group of shooters. One guy shoots nothing but nightforce and while none of us could believe it when he said he had an F1 that didn't track right... it was easy enough to prove. He isn't what I'd call a "sheep" or an "idiot." Pretty accomplished shooter actually.

Nightforce suspended sales of their Beast... Obviously something wrong with the big fella. Yet I hardly am going to say that scope or Nightforce as a company should be condemned because thing's didn't go flawless out of the gate. They'll get it worked out, and when they do, customers will have another great option.

You'll let us know if you find a brand that is incapable of fielding a faulty product won't you Frank?

 

[Lowlight]

2009 to 2011, and you saw multiple issues. Lol. That is a long time, and like I said, I actually confronted them, they were well aware but the financials of the company dictated the course of action. It was cheaper to fix it if you figured it out.

Heck their own employees at the time avoided it and still do, just ask them.

There is a big difference between a small sample having a random issue vs a known problem across the board. Only 3 people here posted no problem, the rest had a problem, but were happy since it was fixed. They knew, that is the difference.

Sure anyone can have an issue, and frankly just saying everyone else doesn't holds no water cause people would be reporting it. You don't see these threads popping up like this except when there is a real problem. It's pretty much why Premier is gone and it's someone else now, mismanagement doesn't effect just one side of the coin, but both.

Your defense is comical, you backed a horse that not only lost, it fell on its nose and broke its leg... What came out the other side is not the same. A completely new company that is starting from close to scratch... To my knowledge that doesn't describe anyone else in the industry except one, SWFA with the Super Sniper. The bought a name too and came out the other side on their own. Premier died, that death was for a reason that carried over.

caveat, spin, and twist, but when you start off talking about the repair first and the great results later, you already admitted defeat. Lol.

 

[VJJPunisher]

i don't read any problems with my beloved NCStars so suck it

 

[orkan]

No need to talk about repair first when discussing Premier in the last couple years.

Sounds like your experiences are more than a couple years old to me. When was the last one you've used created?

 

[Lowlight]

No I see them monthly, the range here I do the classes for sells a lot of them, though admittedly I recommend the Steiner over the Premier. Same lineage with a real company behind it. At least for now...

I make a point of checking them, at the matches especially and I always find some. Granted I don't know the purchase date, but I still see them on a regular basis. Enough to know to avoid them until it's clear this has been addressed. It's a ton of money to take a chance on when you consider the current competition.

As someone else put it, historically the odds are not in your favor, which is the point and the difference. Cause knowing is half the battle...

 

[Lowlight]

Another clue, the fact the name is being bled off...

 

[Lowlight]

Maybe the caveat needs to be whether the scope says Premier on it or something else like they do now.

Tell people to avoid Premier but trust Optronika, cause clearly moving forward that is truly the deciding factor. It's no longer a US made Premier Scope.

Would you trust the name Premier enough to recommend to one of your friends they buy a pre 2011 model? Which I am sure your public answer would be yes otherwise you again prove my point.

 

[orkan]

Maybe the caveat needs to be whether the scope says Premier on it or something else like they do now.

Tell people to avoid Premier but trust Optronika, cause clearly moving forward that is truly the deciding factor. It's no longer a US made Premier Scope.

Would you trust the name Premier enough to recommend to one of your friends they buy a pre 2011 model? Which I am sure your public answer would be yes otherwise you again prove my point.

Pretty much what I've been saying, while having you disagree, that the old scopes aren't like those from the last couple years. ... but if it sounds better when you say it, so be it. That transition was made farther back than most people realize. I would trust them to buy a pre-2011 IF it had made a trip back to the factory already, to be fixed. As of yet, we've not had another issue with any of ours that went back.

In the last couple years, they've said premier AND optronica on the side. That was my point. Those scopes have not had a single failure among anyone I shoot with, or have encountered. To lump them in with the early models and say "well it says premier on the side so they are all junk that have this problem and that problem" is far from accurate.

Again, none of this really matters, as the stock of "premier" branded optics has been virtually exhausted. The new products from TT will make the conversation completely irrelevant, and considering how TT will be honoring the Premier brand warranty going forward... I don't expect there will be any Premier customers left out in the cold.

 

[CSTactical]

I have been running one of the fist 5-25x and have had on issues. It has been on a number of rifles, tracks spot on, and no binding of the parallax. Premier rifle scopes are one of my favorite scopes on the market. The main issue I see is guy not adjusting the turrets looking lever correctly causing it to act like it is not adjusting/tracking, I told them Premier they need to change this. There are a lot of great scope makers out there and I feel Premier is among one of them. Now that ATI took them over I foresee even better thinks to come out. Premier/ATI will stand behind the old scopes as well.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[Lowlight]

Saying failure is not the same, as there are still issues with the toggle, which don't constitute a failure nor is it a repairable issue. People catch the clicks all the time slipping zeros off the mark, that I see a lot. It's not as simple as advertised.

The 5-25x was no where near the problem the 3-15x was, but the system still had bugs. Once the toggles are gone the scope would be on par with the hype. Until then, or until they officially announce the new stuff I am not recommending it, it's that simple.

The Steiner has a similar design, from the same guys, so why not save a few bucks and the headaches of the toggles ? Even if the parallax has been addressed, that is not the only thing. Never was....

 

[Lowlight]

And another with high praise proves my point....

There is always a "but" or "if"... Where at this price point shouldn't exist.

Hopefully SHOT changes that.

 

[orkan]

The only "issue" with the toggle, is the same "issue" that we still have with most vehicles. People not knowing how to use them properly, causing accidents.

Don't put enough tension on the toggle, the clutch won't hold.
Don't put enough tension on your belay when rappelling, you'll impact the ground at a high rate of speed.

Neither are broken or faulty, they simply require a bit of training or time in service to learn how to use properly. That said, I'm looking forward to the new an innovative design which should cater to the lowest common denominator a little bit better.

 

[squishee]

Read this whole thread .
What i came up with is i DONT want to have to be trained to use the toggle .
Isnt there enough more important things to spend your valuable time on?

 

[knockemdown]

now actively looking to buy Premiers Hunters and Lite Tacs for 50¢ on the dollar.
Have in/lbs. torque wrench and cash...

 

[jbailey]

Are the Marines experiencing these problems with their Premiers? I shot w/ two MCBQ-based Scout Sniper Instructors at this past Fall's ASC and they had great things to say about the Corps' Premier they had used...

 

[918v]

Read this whole thread .
What i came up with is i DONT want to have to be trained to use the toggle .
Isnt there enough more important things to spend your valuable time on?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0cvqT1tAE&desktop_uri=/watch?v=NO0cvqT1tAE

 

[squishee]

Yes you tube is always time better spent

 

[turbo54]

Are the Marines experiencing these problems with their Premiers? I shot w/ two MCBQ-based Scout Sniper Instructors at this past Fall's ASC and they had great things to say about the Corps' Premier they had used...

The Marines wouldn't know if they had a problem unless Frank inspected them at a match.

Jeez, get with the program, man.

 

[Lowlight]

The Premiers were Pen Fucked into the USMC, they faced no trial, no process... they were simply added at the stroke of a pen. So who knows, (especially since it would have been Pre-2011), if they would have passed the tests to have earned the title... and it would have been the faulty 3-15x and not the 5-25x, which had the luxury of being worked on after the problems of the 3-15x were brought to light.

The Premier Heritage never won a contract, it was simply added because the OIC had no desire to start the process for a new scope all over again after S&B & Premier (VA) parted ways. The USMC used the MST100 for over 30 years... so clearly they are happy to work with less. Ask any Marine what the actual state of the equipment is, (and seeing how I actually graduated sniper school and didn't see it on the discovery channel, I tell you first hand)

Also, if you need "training' to operate the scope, that is a called a "Design Flaw" it's a problem. For the Average Shooter out there, Training = Trial, Error, and in this case Frustration.

10 years from now the Premier name what they created will all be historical records and nothing more, the company no longer exists, no matter how you slice it, if it was the end all that never would have happened.

If you have to admit you wouldn't touch a scope Pre-2011, ( you realize that is only few years ago) unless it had been returned for service, and then claim you would "never settle for less" can you really trust any of it... $10 says he "sells" Premiers to his friends. 2 pages and only 3 people chimed in with "no problems" only 3....

 

[Bill Larson]

I owned a couple of Premier boosted Leupolds......had trouble with both...... they refuesed to work on them.....
Premier does not stand behind their products.....

 

[orkan]

I owned a couple of Premier boosted Leupolds......had trouble with both...... they refuesed to work on them.....
Premier does not stand behind their products.....

... and people wonder why they are ditching the brand name. Holding ATI/TT accountable for the decisions of chris thomas wouldn't seem to be the cleanest thinking in the world. The people that hung you out to dry, no longer have anything to do with the Premier brand. The new ownership takes better care of their customers than most businesses. This isn't hard to prove.

 

[scatsob]

I can't say I blame them for exploiting a loophole in their contract to get these scopes. A new solicitation could have taken years unless they just went with off the shelf products and even then it's not easy. Government contracting sucks for everyone, but especially for the government as we like to make things as hard as possible for ourselves. That said, open solicitation and "competitions" are intended to get the government the best product technically acceptable at the lowest price. Oh well, I am not an "operator" and my PH works, so for what I paid, which was well under $2k, I am happy.

On a related note, has Optronika made any 3-15's and did they address this issue?

The Premiers were Pen Fucked into the USMC, they faced no trial, no process... they were simply added at the stroke of a pen. So who knows, (especially since it would have been Pre-2011), if they would have passed the tests to have earned the title... and it would have been the faulty 3-15x and not the 5-25x, which had the luxury of being worked on after the problems of the 3-15x were brought to light.

The Premier Heritage never won a contract, it was simply added because the OIC had no desire to start the process for a new scope all over again after S&B & Premier (VA) parted ways. The USMC used the MST100 for over 30 years... so clearly they are happy to work with less. Ask any Marine what the actual state of the equipment is, (and seeing how I actually graduated sniper school and didn't see it on the discovery channel, I tell you first hand)

Also, if you need "training' to operate the scope, that is a called a "Design Flaw" it's a problem. For the Average Shooter out there, Training = Trial, Error, and in this case Frustration.

10 years from now the Premier name what they created will all be historical records and nothing more, the company no longer exists, no matter how you slice it, if it was the end all that never would have happened.

If you have to admit you wouldn't touch a scope Pre-2011, ( you realize that is only few years ago) unless it had been returned for service, and then claim you would "never settle for less" can you really trust any of it... $10 says he "sells" Premiers to his friends. 2 pages and only 3 people chimed in with "no problems" only 3....

 

[boomfab]

I have an Optronika marked PH 5-25x.

It's torqued to 25 in/lbs in a Near Mfg Alphamount.

Parallax adjusts just fine.

 

[918v]

Also, if you need "training' to operate the scope, that is a called a "Design Flaw" it's a problem.

I don't think that's fair. One needs a little training in the operation of such a complicated device especially given the amount of technology incorporated into these scopes in the last several years. It takes a little training to reset the zero stop on a S&B. It takes a little training to figure out the cam levers on a Premier.

 

[deadly0311]

Had a PH 5-25 shortly after they came out. Mine went back for the MTC clickers going bad. Went back a second time for not tracking and went back a final time for the parallax binding. Was at a match and watched another Hide member's PH go tits up and if I remember correctly it was a parallax issue. Both of these scopes were late 08- early 09 scopes

 

[Lowlight]

I don't think that's fair. One needs a little training in the operation of such a complicated device especially given the amount of technology incorporated into these scopes in the last several years. It takes a little training to reset the zero stop on a S&B. It takes a little training to figure out the cam levers on a Premier.

Do you practice being an idiot or does it come naturally.

A zero stop on the S&B is fixed, it doesn't move, loosen the screw turn to zero, the zero stop is set.

Have you ever used one or were you just guessing?

 

[918v]

Similarly, turn the cam lever until you achieve the right amount of leverage, apply the leverage.

Don't call me names.

 

[BS68280]

This has been a very educational thread. Summarized below.

1. Someone is very angry
2. You shouldn't have to train to use things effectively
3. If yours does not have a problem, it does in fact have a problem

 

[turbo54]

Do you practice being an idiot or does it come naturally.

A zero stop on the S&B is fixed, it doesn't move, loosen the screw turn to zero, the zero stop is set.

Have you ever used one or were you just guessing?

Ad-hominen attacks are a sure sign of a losing perspective.

The man is correct; a person with no prior knowledge of scopes would require either some training, or a few minutes to mess around with it to be able to "float the caps" or set a zero stop on any scope.

True, the traditional setscrew method is well-understood by most anyone that's had any exposure to rifle scopes. But...

I don't accept "but its always been done this way" as a good justification for not innovating.

I'd bet if you handed a rifleman with zero previous experience with scopes an NXS, a Premier Heritage and a Bender, he'd have the zeroing/zero stop figured out on the Premier and Bender about the same time, with the NXS taking him much longer, assuming he didn't ruin it trying to figure it out.

I agree the toggles don't work as well in the real world as they do in theory:

Theoretically, you lift the toggle, spin the turret to zero, and flip the toggle back down.

In the real world, you lift the toggle, spin it counterclockwise twice, push down on the center rod, spin turret to zero, rotate toggle twice clockwise, and then by "feel" choose the correct final position to flip the toggle back over.

Stil, I much prefer this over using tiny micro Allen keys that get lost, and are never there when you need them.

 

[Notso]

Wow, I didn't know I was going to create such a shitstorm when I posted the OP question..... but I've been enjoying this thread with some popcorn and beer. Carry on.

 

[maggitas]

Don't hold back guys tell us how you really feel!! I, for one am glad this thread came to light. I was contemplating purchasing a PH 5-25 and I was wondering if the issue had been resolved as well.

 

[squishee]

This has been a very educational thread. Summarized below.

1. Someone is very angry
2. You shouldn't have to train to use things effectively
3. If yours does not have a problem, it does in fact have a problem

Ill add
#4 If you have 13-15 of these scopes you wouldnt want to admit to being screwed more than once

 

[Alpine 338]

^^^^
What He said.

I think it's human nature, + more on gun board to strongly state whatever you bought or own is the best, and never admit that it has problems. Being too proud sometimes is contrary to reality.

In my case, my first experiences with Premier scopes were two first generation 3-15's that I got in trade. Both had the parallax issue as discussed above. My next Premier was the latest generation 5-25 which was gained through a match award certificate. It did not have any parallax issues, and I ended up buying two more 5-25's. neither of them had parallax issues. I have since sold/traded all those scopes. Currently I have one second generation 3-15, and a couple third generation 3-15's that were purchased used. They don't have parallax issues. I also have two NIB third generation 3-15's that I recently traded for/bought, and have not had a chance to put them in rings. I hope the parallax issue is only a problem with the first generation scopes as I would truly be disappointed if those two NIB scope have issues.

One thing I will add, with the Premier scopes, when the temperature is close to freezing or below, the parallax knob is very hard to turn, and indeed may be a binding problem and/or a heavy grade of grease used in the mechanism or seals. So far it hasn't affected adjustability of the parallax.

FYI - the first two 3-15 that I had problems with came with Badger rings. For the 5-25's I used Near Alpha mounts, and for the later generation 3-15's I'm using Leupold Mk 4 rings. Except for the badgers, I'm torquing the Alpha's and Mk 4's 20-21 in-lbs.

 

[orkan]

Wow. So if people have one that works, they are an idiot and don't know what to look for. If they and the people they shoot with have a BUNCH of them that work, then they just lie to make themselves look smarter huh?

No one I shoot with nor I feel the need to validate themselves with others in regard to equipment. If something doesn't work, we don't use it. We damn sure wouldn't lie about it not working and recommend others use it. To say otherwise is just forum posturing.

 

[Lowlight]

If something doesn't work, we don't use it. We damn sure wouldn't lie about it not working and recommend others use it. To say otherwise is just forum posturing.

Pretty sure you said yourself you had some that "didn't work" and went back for repair, so clearly you continue to use them. You can't claim in one breath to have seen the problems and in the next breath say you would never use a scope that had problems. Clearly you had problems, and went back for more. They never made an official announcement that they addressed them. This is beyond the binding issue, as noted by several including fans of the product.

We also noticed the issue in the extreme cold. At Thunder Ranch we had a Premier go silly in the snow & ice. We took it to paper and noted it only moved 1/2 of the adjustment we asked of it. Once the temp climbed up, the scope went back to working... we also attributed this to the grease being use, but that is just another example of the question.

When you look at the "operational" issues, you have to ask yourself do you plan on actually using it or just looking through it. The example of the zero stop is a great one... if you don't set a zero stop on say your NXS it does not effect the tracking or anything else. You just don;t have a zero stop. If you don't get the toggle adjustment right the scope does not work as it is supposed to, and it gives you no warning unless you check it. The fact an end user can induce "operator error" here points to a design flaw. Funny some fans will admit this problem, while others choose to ignore it.

There is probably a bit of overlap with the issues, older scopes vs new ones, especially when you compare the 3-15x to the 5-25x, but that does not take away from the fact these issues exist. They may have fixed the parallax binding in the latest 5-25x but then you have the toggle engagement, the cold weather problems noted by several, and the curve in the top end. (contrary to what was posted, we don't see this in S&B or NF to degree we see it in the Premier.) So, either these guys are not aware of these issues because, they don't use them to that degree, or they never checked and just fling rounds trial & error wise where you won't know what you are looking at, or they are ignoring it. Cause all these issues effect the end results.

My biggest gripe, and you can dismiss it, years ago... when the 5-25x was just in the design phase, we brought these issues to Premier's attention. We begged them to fix this stuff, and they blew us off... so while the company is no longer the same and the new guys have the reigns, I think pointing all this out is important. Clearly they think so which is why they are getting away from the Premier name. But that doesn't mean people don't go out and buy Used Ones and not know about any of this... these problems are not "several years old", and the number of these scopes out there is big. Especially when you had Liberty blowing them out below $2k. Imagine what Canada & Optronika found after the fact that is leading to the changes moving forward. We may have just scratched the surface.

 

[orkan]

Early scopes had problems. Recent scopes don't. That shouldn't be so difficult to understand. If I took a failure upon launch of a new product as an indication of an entire brand's quality FOR ALL ETERNITY... I'd be stuck using iron sights. Things change. I could say that I was out shooting last week in -10 degree -30 degree wind chill for approx 6 hours with my Premier and had no problems, but it's clear some here would just say I was either lying, or was too stupid to know what a properly working scope behaves like. People seem to think that if a product carries a specific model name, then it is IT regardless of any changes that were made in the design or assembly of the product to alleviate reported issues. Is a chevy camaro the same today as it was in 1970?

Yes, it's very clear you are harboring ill as a result of Premier's treatment toward you. I don't want to dismiss that, but embrace it. Premier always treated people like shit when chris thomas took the helm. No surprise to anyone really. Has ATI/TT treated you similarly? I expect not. If I had to guess why they are getting away from the Premier name... it's because people see "premier" and they see red. This thread is a prime example. People harbor ill will toward the premier name, even though the people that caused the ill will in the first place aren't to be found, and the failures that caused the ill will no longer exist. As a business owner, you don't have a choice but to change branding at that point.

I too am looking forward to the new zero stop adjustment. Yet I won't scare people away from buying a Premier with a paddle... I'll just teach them how to use it to ensure they won't have problems. 5 minutes of my time is all that's needed.

Personally, I'm quite happy that a new brand and a new scope will be showing up. I'm sick of trying to explain the difference between early and recent Premier's, only to have people think they are the same, and if one has problems, so does the other. New company, new scopes, and when this BS comes up I'll simply say "Who's Premier?"

 

[Lowlight]

So what you are saying is, people need to take a leap of faith when it comes to "all the issues" and that leap includes a substantial dollar figure, because neither ATI nor Optronika has said they have addressed the issues... no word = no change, and frankly, I still contend you sell the brand, something you have not denied being a dealer. Which is why you won't scare people away. You have a different agenda.

Once the new stuff comes out, we can judge that, but honestly since nothing has been stated, it's been pretty much dark from the group, that leap is pretty significant. You also passed right over the fact there are still older scopes out there, that have not been fixed and that come up for sale all the time. Putting a light on this, educates a potential buyer.

I have had no dealings with ATI or Optronika... they remain quiet on the subject. So there is no negative, but also no positive, when you have an absence of information, you allow others to fill in the blank for you. Those holes are filled by first hand experience with what we know, there are bugs in the hardware until otherwise proven addressed.

 

[Lowlight]

On a side note, you have had Premier Scopes listed for sale and trade and your trade considerations are S&B scopes... within the same family. So why move from a Premier 5-25x to a S&B 5-25x and a PH 3-15x to a S&B 4-16x.

And please come clean on the fact you sell this stuff.... that tells the tale much more so

 

[jbailey]

I did some research on the issue of binding in the Premier Tactical scope and found some information that might be of interest to the folks here.

All this information is based on my internet research and might be wrong, but it does at least provide some useful information behind the problems:

- The 3-15x Tactical was released in 2008 and was designed, in part, by engineers from Schmidt and Bender.
- The lens controlling the focus/parallax are located in the main tube in front of the turret box.
- The main tube is 2.5mm (0.1”) thick, very beefy and strong compared to competitive scopes.
- The parallax lens fit into the main tube very tightly w/o much clearance.
This tightness means any force that compresses the tube has the potential to cause the parallax lens to “bind”
- Compression can come from several forces including:
o Over torqued rings
o Rings that are not perfectly round or are “tight”
o The location of the rings (if the rings are not over the lens, they are less likely to cause binding)
o Rings from different manufacturers
o Changes in temperature
- The first generation of 3-15x’s can be repaired under the warranty by a simple operation: the lens diameter is reduced slightly so the fit in the main tube is more tolerant of compression. This generally solves the bind issue.
- 3-15x’s built by Premier after a certain date, a so-called ‘2nd generation 3-15x’, have been manufactured with this correction to the parallax lens, so they will not bind. I was not able to find the date when these 2nd gens went into manufacturing, perhaps it is the 2011 that Lowlight is citing above. (I believe most of the USMC Premiers are these 2nd gen scopes and that is why we are not hearing about problems of them binding).
- Most of the 5-25x and all of the 3-15x Light Tacticals have been manufactured with this correction, so they are not likely to having binding problems.

Hope this helps some people.

 

[orkan]

Why would I "deny" being a dealer? No one "accused" me of it.
So not only am I too stupid to understand a properly working scope, and lie about malfunctioning scopes... but I also have an "agenda" to sell the scopes that I know malfunction? Wow.

My customers that have bought 2, 3, or more Premier's from me in the last couple years... aren't stupid. They don't lie. ... and they damn sure would not spend $3100 - $3500 on a scope again, if the one I sold them in the first place didn't work.

On that note, I'll leave you to it. Being called a shill, that will also sell knowingly bad product ends this conversation for me. Last I checked, I wasn't allowed to advertise here without putting something in your pocket. Have fun. .

 

[Lowlight]

I noted you were a dealer at least 3x in this thread and you never mentioned it once... missed that part I suppose.

You sell the scope, and have been asked on other forums, "If you changed your opinion" on PR and you stated "yes" so clearly you saw an issue and then change your mind. (probably after being signed up as a dealer)

But you sell them, that means you have a vested interest... plain and simple.

Funny, how I mentioned this more than once, and you never caveated a word you said, saying "I sell these and my customers are happy" you made a point of hiding that fact. And now you act all indignant when you are called on it... "How dare you speak the Truth".. I am outta here. Classic.

Stating up front you sell the product you are praising is not the same as advertising. It's true in advertising. You continually denied the flaws, we now know why. Bye,...

 

[10fp]

The few people arguing with Frank need to do a bit more shooting with their scopes. I got a 3-15 and a 5-25 (early ones) as soon as they hit the shelves, I got rid of both after a year. I do like the LT’s and the new ones I have on hunting rigs have been issue free from the last batch. I am amazed when I see used premiers for sale for almost the same $$$ as new and a few hundred below S&B. The S&B is easily 2ce the scope. It boggles my mind that someone will pay $2700 for a used premier that’s been on some match rifle for the past 2 years. I have “only” 10k rounds or so downrange between 4 premiers I have owned. Its still a good scope but they need to stay in $1700-$2300 price range to be worth their salt.

 

[knockemdown]

I had a 1st Gen 3-15, wound up trading it toward a Lite Tac. Not because it failed, just that the Lite Tac was a better fit on a lighter weight rig. Didn't notice any parallax binding when I ran it on my GAP .243. The Lite Tac shaved ~13oz, IIRC and I could get to 900+ on the 1st turn of the LT turret.
IMHO, the Premier Lite Tac offers the best features, size, glass and useability for the hunter/shooter...bar none. Never a hiccup out of mine, it runs like clockwork.

Still have a 1st Gen 5-25 PH, and have shot it on a few different rifles with no issues, other than swapping out the 'clickers' for a more crisp tactile feel. Paul Lange sent me an extra set when upgrading the 3-15, so I put em in the 5-25x too, just because. Parallax has never bound up, Seekins rings @ 20 in/lbs. Not a hardcore match shooter, but my shit gets used 4 seasons and I travel to hunt.

That said, as a Premier owner, I definitely appreciate Lowlight's candor about the former company and its products. If people in his position do not speak up, this stuff might not ever make it to potential consumers like me. However, since the sky is not currently falling over my shit, I will remain a satisfied customer and enjoy using the four Premier scopes that function just fine for me. In that regard, I'm obviously not alone...

 

[Twisted .308]

USO has had issues , does that make them all junk too ?

 

[jonthomps]

Wow, has this thread ever been educational. Didn't know about any of this but here's what I took away: With this amount of controversy surrounding a company and their products why would anyone risk their money on it? There are other alternatives out there that aren't completely swamped with problems. I'm not trying to take away anything from the guys that have them and like running them, (I've owned an LT and a 5-25 - sold them both) but the risk/payoff percentage is just too high for me to ever consider purchasing another one.

 

[scatsob]

Swamped with problems? You guys should go work on truly complicated pieces of mechanical equipment like aircraft. Stuff goes wrong all the time, the engineers identify the problem, and fix it. You don't see airplanes falling out of the sky left and right and 99% of the time it is user error and not the aircraft. Premier knows there is a problem and will fix it if you send them your scope. Obviously I can't speak to them knowing about it before releasing the scope so please done kill me Frank .

 

[knockemdown]

Single digit temps & well below sub-zero windchills, no issues with parallax binding on these two Premiers.

Same here...

Same trip as this, pard's Swaro took a dump on him from gettin' dinged around.
Call me lucky to have avoided all of my Premiers being "swamped" during the last 4 years of using them...

 

[Lowlight]

As noted, the parallax is not the only issue, and in the cold it was the click adjustment that was off, it no longer tracked correctly.

If you haven't tested it, and just are out plinking, it's really hard to say you have no issue.

 

[knockemdown]

Noted, but not experienced.

Also noted how convenient the argument is that keeps insinuating how Premier shooters are somehow incapable of noticing a problem with their gear. As if we, as a collective group, are all duped somehow, or blinded by the emotional investment of owning Premiers?

That's akin to being asked the question "So, for how long have you been beating your wife?"
No matter what the response, you already look the part...

Its all good, and thanks again for speaking up.

 

[Lowlight]

I based that on experience...

The fact I can go down and line and say,

"Hey do you know your parallax doesn't work", and the answer is "No" says a lot. I have to take my shoes off to give you accurate account on how many times that has happened.

There is a lot of people out there who can afford to buy stuff and have no idea how it works, ask Paul Walker, ownership does not signify competence. So if the shoe fits, wear it.