Yes we are exhibiting at Shot Show. Booth number 328.
- Thread starter PCP_Ammunition
- Start date
Yes we are exhibiting at Shot Show. Booth number 328.
How is bullet pull being addressed? Several years ago similar cases were introduced, they used a "film" and heat seating, as the plastic, being lubricous, needed to be "glued" (pardon the phrase) to the neck. Has any testing been done regarding any gas or deadly by products associated with plastics being burned at high temp. In short will these cases be "EPA" safe in an indoor range? If heat is being used to seat the bullet, is some of the "melted" plastic being carried by the projectile into the bore? If so, how long between cleanings, and what special chemicals are recommended to remove the melted plastic?
I am shipping the ammo back to PCP, plus 10 spent shells (FGMM) from the same gun fired today and they will investigate the issue and report their findings. I will wait for them to tell you their findings. I have talked to them 3 different times and they are sending me a return label and a full refund. They were very nice and accommodating.
For $40 a box I assume everyone will get picked. They are selling it to you then you do the testing? Seems backwards.
I got to try this out yesterday. I had no feed, fire or ejection issues out of a 5 round AICS mag. I used a Magnetospeed to get an average of 2509 fps, with a SD of 13. I shot out of a Rem. 700 SF Var. 26 in. with a 1-12 twist. Temp was 55, altitude 50ft. Shot a ok group, but not great off a front rest and rear bag.
Holy shit.....are the necks melted on those? Kinda looks like it.
Not melted, But a few had chips broken off the neck.
Really? In London?
Never seen FGMM at Wally World in Lex Vegas, Lawrenceburg, Frankfort, or southern Indiana.
And WHERE did the chips go??? Seems pretty sketchy
Yea I was excited about this when I heard about it as well. Then the $40 price tag made me laugh hysterically. There's no way I'd pay that when I could go to cabelas and get as much SSA, Black hills or Norma as I want for cheaper. Even if I didn't reload I'd rather shoot the brass and sell it or use it for trade fodder, or even just give it away to a reloader. If the price was significantly lower, in the $20 range I'd at least try it. They can keep it for that price.
Here is what ammo i can get here in ohio and the prices
FGMM 168gr $27.99 -20 rounds
Win match 168gr $24.99 -20 rounds
Rem Premier 168gr $24.99 -20 rounds
privi Partisan 168gr $21.99 - 20 rounds
Ultramax 168gr $64.00 - 60 rounds
All are sub moa out of both my rifles..... so at $40 -20 rounds plus shipping no thanks i will stick with what i know works
FGMM 168gr $27.99 -20 rounds
Win match 168gr $24.99 -20 rounds
Rem Premier 168gr $24.99 -20 rounds
privi Partisan 168gr $21.99 - 20 rounds
Ultramax 168gr $64.00 - 60 rounds
All are sub moa out of both my rifles..... so at $40 -20 rounds plus shipping no thanks i will stick with what i know works
I tried these rounds in a Remington 700 and only got light primer strikes so I tried them in my sass the out come was not good at all the guys at pcp were very interested in the issue and want the remaining ammo back and some brass cases out of my rifle they are giving me a full refund they were great guys to deal with on the phone i don't know about posting pics of the spent rounds if they say it's ok I'll post the pics of the empty cases.
You don't know about posting photos of ammo that you own? You bought the ammo so their feelings on you posting photos of the spent shell casings is irrelevant.
Mark me down as someone that was excited about this, because a polymer case would be significantly cheaper than a brass case, until I saw the price. Just picked up a box of 200 FGMM 175s for $240 shipped about a week ago. I'm interested in how this ammo develops if the price comes down though.
I agree killshot just wasn't thinking about it like that here's the case from my sass
I agree killshot just wasn't thinking about it like that here's the case from my sass
Problems with NATEC PCA-Spectrum Polymer-Cased Ammo? | Defense Review
Polymer-cased ammo - The Firing Line Forums
Looks like another failed attempt at polymer ammo to me. If you want "cheap" reload or buy steel ammo. I'm glad you are still around to talk about your incident.
I agree killshot just wasn't thinking about it like that here's the case from my sass
The strength irony of your counter top and the busted up case.
Apparently your "experts" don't know why those of us who fireform our brass do so. It's not to create a better "seal", it's a way of obtaining more room for powder so we can launch bullets at higher speeds for long ranges. With some chambers and depending on the powder, one can get 2 grains or more extra capacity from a "fire formed" case. Not something a manufacturer can do if he expects his cartridge to fit chambers at the small end of he SAAMI specs.
As for Polymer Ammo for me. No thanks. No desire whatever. Not even for my 'brass flingers".
This isn't the first time around for polymer cased ammo both rifle and pistol. None has been successful. If it was all that advantageous in accuracy, dependability, cost, and lighter weight, you'd think the Military would be all over it. So far they haven't. The next "Military" round is most likely going to be "caseless". Just think, a MG that doesn't jam due to improperly ejected brass. Snipers not having to police their brass, etc.
Yeah, I'd forgotten all about it until someone posted that NATEC link.
Kinda had a feeling as soon as I saw the first post that things would go this way. We all wish PCP success, the only way costs come down is if they succeed and are able to scale up production as a result. It's simple economy of scale. But unfortunately it doesn't look like the product is ready for prime time.
If its anything like the Polymer training ammo , its gonna be trouble .......that stuff likes to jam a lot even in my bolt gun, I bought a case of 500rds just to shoot varmints at close range with and only a handful out of 20 will eject , had to carry my cleaning rod with me to pop out the empty cases ....and at $40 a box thats nearly double FGMM .......now if Lowlight would just send me all his spent brass ????
What are they doing with all the brass they are wanting the guinea pigs to send in? I understand they want it because its your rifle fault there were problems and not their ammo, but damn, they will end up with a lot of brass. Seems like they got ya coming and going.
PCP should go on the Shark Tank show and see what they say about it. That would be entertaining.
It isn't the exact same thing, but I shot 3 or 4 rounds of polymer case 50BMG back in November. The guy who owns the range I shoot at is big time into 50BMG benchrest and was given quite a bit of that polymer stuff by some guy that asked him to test it. The ammo shot just fine and grouped well.....for 50BMG. He told me he had been shooting it for several weeks and he hadn't had any issues. He said the guy that gave it to him said that the goal was to make the ammo lighter so that more could be carried (I would assume on aircraft)......don't know how true that is.
The difference between the ammo I shot and what I see in these photos is that the the 50BMG stuff was all polymer except for the case head and maybe the first 1/2" or so of the body, which I think it was brass (think of "high brass" shotgun shells except a tapered neck/shoulder). Even the neck & shoulder was polymer, unlike this PCP stuff. The polymer part was clear yellow, not white. Kind of neat, really.
I know a 50BMG isn't a .308, but I would assume that if a 50 can make it work, the kinks can be worked out of .308 with some testing.
The difference between the ammo I shot and what I see in these photos is that the the 50BMG stuff was all polymer except for the case head and maybe the first 1/2" or so of the body, which I think it was brass (think of "high brass" shotgun shells except a tapered neck/shoulder). Even the neck & shoulder was polymer, unlike this PCP stuff. The polymer part was clear yellow, not white. Kind of neat, really.
I know a 50BMG isn't a .308, but I would assume that if a 50 can make it work, the kinks can be worked out of .308 with some testing.
This PCP ammo looks like the neck and shoulder are polymer. I don't know why one part is white and the other is black.
Maybe the black part screws off and they can put a 260 neck on it.
This is the stuff I played with , limited range but fun to just shoot crows and pests with
Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC
Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC
This ammo was reviewed recently and failed miserably. An excerpt from the review follows:
“The ammunition is horribly inaccurate, the powder is “thrown” inconsistently, and the cartridges disintegrate in your rifle after being fired. The only thing good about this ammo was the consistent bullet weights, but that doesn’t do you any good if the cartridges don’t fire. At a 57.5% Failure To Fire rate (17 out of 40 fired), added on top of the above mentioned downsides of this ammunition, I have nothing to say other than “absolutely pathetic”.
A link to the entire review to include feedback from PCP about the review can be found here:
PCP Polymer Match Ammunition Review | 8541 Tactical
“The ammunition is horribly inaccurate, the powder is “thrown” inconsistently, and the cartridges disintegrate in your rifle after being fired. The only thing good about this ammo was the consistent bullet weights, but that doesn’t do you any good if the cartridges don’t fire. At a 57.5% Failure To Fire rate (17 out of 40 fired), added on top of the above mentioned downsides of this ammunition, I have nothing to say other than “absolutely pathetic”.
A link to the entire review to include feedback from PCP about the review can be found here:
PCP Polymer Match Ammunition Review | 8541 Tactical
Did anybody that shot the ammo think that the powder had a different smell to it when they fired the rounds when that case came apart I got a good smell of it and it had different smell to it then normal powder
Can someone please tell me in general what is the benefits of polymer case ammunition? Is there some inherent benefit that I am not seeing? Is polymer cased ammunition better than brass case ammunition?
Meanwhile, the way I read the review from the link provided by Papa Zero Three, the ammunition failed on multiple levels. Then reading the statement from PCP sites incorrect measuring techniques on the part of the review for overall length measurements, dispute over the powder charge variance of 1.2 grains, they are looking into the failure to fires and reasons why the cartridge neck would fall apart into small pieces only lends me to avoid this company.
So even if I was interested in polymer cased ammunition, can someone tell me why I would want to buy from PCP with their statement?
Meanwhile, EXCELLENT review from Jamie Johnson who reviewed the ammunition for 8541tactical.com. A recommended read.
Meanwhile, the way I read the review from the link provided by Papa Zero Three, the ammunition failed on multiple levels. Then reading the statement from PCP sites incorrect measuring techniques on the part of the review for overall length measurements, dispute over the powder charge variance of 1.2 grains, they are looking into the failure to fires and reasons why the cartridge neck would fall apart into small pieces only lends me to avoid this company.
So even if I was interested in polymer cased ammunition, can someone tell me why I would want to buy from PCP with their statement?
Meanwhile, EXCELLENT review from Jamie Johnson who reviewed the ammunition for 8541tactical.com. A recommended read.
weight savings, they are very light......
I got my refund today
I got my refund today
Polymer cased ammo offers mainly benefits to the manufacturer. Cheaper raw materials, ability to "mold" the case body parts rather than "drawing" as with brass.
IF it's any lighter than brass cased ammo it's a minuscule savings considering the drawbacks.
Only ones on the "plastic bandwagon" are manufacturers that want to make cheap. and lots of it.
Another benefit to the manufacturers is that they are non-reloadable. So that means you have to buy new from them every time. How perfect for them.
All, you can count me out of this polymer ammunition scheme. I also am not interested in Arizona ocean front property, time share of bridges and swamp land in Florida.
I applaud manufacturers for their experimentation in developing new ammo technology. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. However, using customers to do your field testing, and charging them $40 a box for their trouble when you haven't worked the kinks out yet is...well, supply your own adjective. If you haven't tested your product in the field yet, it is a good idea to supply the product to the testers at no cost, then get their un-biased feedback. Unless you have a proven, clear-cut advantage over traditional brass-cased ammo, it is ridiculous to charge a great deal MORE than traditional ammo (which, to this point has proven superior). Nice try, but as I see it you have two possible options - either improve this product to the point that it is at least equal to traditional ammo, and sell it at a significantly lower cost (since the cases are not reloadable, thus of less value), or completely redesign the product until you can come to the table with a clear-cut, no-BS advantage over traditional ammo.
I do too but I would have tried something else other than recycled water bottles. What will they try next, paper?
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Yeh, you mean like in the Civil War?
Wonder if caseless ammunition will ever happen? Why… YES IT WILL!! Check out this link: LSAT caseless ammunition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We might see this technology in about 10-15 years. Then just think, no more primers, no more powder, just buy bullets and propellent. Nice. But I still like to reload.
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caseless ammunition ..? . Well No Brass or Powder forensics wont make for happy television crime watchers of CSI my friend .
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Weird. No response from OP.......?
Is the black part from the neck to shoulder also polymer? I just don't see how you could trust that for accuracy and safety reasons given that you may fire a coarse of 5-10 rounds and then chamber one and not fire it while it sits in that heated chamber to melt/deform/etc.
Am I missing something that would deter this possibility?
Am I missing something that would deter this possibility?
hey, it works for EA games.
SOoooo, I dont Fucking get it ??? . Why You here on the internet are privileged chosen to be sold this Ammo to shoot and test and it's Not Cheap & you can Not Reload it .
Then it must not be really intended for you . The end-goal of the manufacture really is not intended for the mass production to the retail civilian market but is in hopes of scoring a FAT Gov.Contract .
If people want one-time, cheap disposable, with proven track record Rifle Cartridges for mass production . I thought that is what Steel Cases/ Steel poly-coated Cartridges are for ???.
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Then it must not be really intended for you . The end-goal of the manufacture really is not intended for the mass production to the retail civilian market but is in hopes of scoring a FAT Gov.Contract .
If people want one-time, cheap disposable, with proven track record Rifle Cartridges for mass production . I thought that is what Steel Cases/ Steel poly-coated Cartridges are for ???.
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